2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[Black Jack]

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Let's take a moment to appreciate how great Wilt was for Jokic to just be tying his 45 points / 10 assists game mark.

[MMyhre]

Mo Williams (2009 regular season): 2.3 BPM, +3.4 on/off
Mo Williams (2009 playoffs): 0.4 BPM, +9.3 on/off

Jamal Murray (2025 regular season): -0.9 BPM, +5.2 on/off
Jamal Murray (2024 playoffs): -1.4 BPM, -6.5 on/off

I still think he can get his groove back, but until he does, he's barely a rotation guy.

Yeah, let's just pretend the 20&23 playoffs didn't happen

Jokic stans love to pretend Murray didn't play like an all-star the year they won, it's absurd.

He wasn`t just an All Star, he was high All-NBA in the playoffs. The guy is crazy talented, he is also crazy **** stupid and lazy apparently, to start fading athletically in your mid 20`s is just pathetic work ethic, especially when you have the chance to play with a top 10 talent of all time +/- and boost your own legacy sooooooooo far beyond what it would be without Jokic. But hey, go **** some street hoes and use that money and be known as the bum that held Jokic back instead. What a fool.

[MMyhre]

Wemby may make this interesting if he ramps up the second half of season and the Spurs get a top 7 seed. He's surpassed Tatum/Giannis/Luka now in EPM. Just 2 weeks ago he was behind them. He's gaining fast on Jokic and SGA.

No way, he is too inconsistent in his outside shooting, and he doesn`t seem able to adapt to taking more inside shots when the outside shots aren`t falling, Spurs are not going to win enough games and he is too far behind in the elite stats, which would require him to unlock newfound levels of dominance just to catch up + SGA/Jokic/Giannis falling off etc..

It`s too soon. He will be a top 3 favorite next year barring the Spurs becoming ****/injuries etc.

[MMyhre]

If Denver finishes inside the top 4 in the west, anyone but Jokic winning MVP will have an asterisk.

The best player on the planet amongst an all time great peak is having the best season of his career.

No one else is the MVP but Jokic.

29-5 without his 2nd best player and a potential DPOY candidate that was developing, also Hart missed games, better or very close in most advanced metrics (I want to see Thinking Basketball advanced stats if anyone has access, but I figure its probably very close there as well), better two way player... 29-5 to 19-14 with all that said - SGA is the MVP, currently. I dont care if Denver gets into the 4th spot either, SGA is amazing this year.

[MMyhre]

[tweet][/tweet]

LOL, stop. There was a better argument that Dame was having a better season than Giannis or that Derrick White was having a better season than Tatum than there was that Chet was having a better season than SGA. Thunder are 20-3 since Chet got hurt FYI.

What are you talking about? The Bucks started 2-8, nobody on that team was in the conversation for anything. Dame put up points but was worse than a sieve on d. I’m not sure you’ve watched the games.

Tatum was on fire to start the season, White wasn’t on that level. On the other hand, Chet was being talked about as a DPOY candidate. He outscored or matched SGA in multiple games to start the season and put up double digit rebounds.

I get it though, can’t talk about SGA having good teammates. Goes against the narrative.

Chet’s played a total of 265 minutes this year. That’s 11th on the team. The Thunder have a better record in the 23 games he’s played than the 10 he hasn’t. Acting like he’s in danger of overshadowing SGA is nonsense.

Here’s a complete list of all the players in NBA history with a higher single season BPM than SGA has this year:

Jokic
LeBron
Steph
David Robinson

That’s it!

I agree with you, but I just want to highlight his point that the first hot stretch of Chet was incredible, and if he had reached that level consistently it would be far above anyone on Jokic team.

[Exp0sed]

If Denver finishes inside the top 4 in the west, anyone but Jokic winning MVP will have an asterisk.

The best player on the planet amongst an all time great peak is having the best season of his career.

No one else is the MVP but Jokic.

29-5 without his 2nd best player and a potential DPOY candidate that was developing, also Hart missed games, better or very close in most advanced metrics (I want to see Thinking Basketball advanced stats if anyone has access, but I figure its probably very close there as well), better two way player... 29-5 to 19-14 with all that said - SGA is the MVP, currently. I dont care if Denver gets into the 4th spot either, SGA is amazing this year.

SGA is amazing and he deserves it so far, there would be no asterisk if he'd won it on a 65-70 wins team. with that said, Jokic has been better thus far and it's kinda of hard not give it to a player whose team is the best in the NBA (or very close to it) when he's on the floor and are the worst team in the league (literally) when he's off the floor, even if they are only a 4th-5th seed or whatever

we've never seen anyone do what Jokic is doing this season, completely nuts and if u watch the games - they speak louder than the stats. Jokic just had two back to back Sombor 40 pts triple doubles, against the best defensive Center in the league.

unreal stuff, he makes everyone around him significantly better and impact almost every single play in a truly unprecedented way.

[MMyhre]

If Denver finishes inside the top 4 in the west, anyone but Jokic winning MVP will have an asterisk.

The best player on the planet amongst an all time great peak is having the best season of his career.

No one else is the MVP but Jokic.

29-5 without his 2nd best player and a potential DPOY candidate that was developing, also Hart missed games, better or very close in most advanced metrics (I want to see Thinking Basketball advanced stats if anyone has access, but I figure its probably very close there as well), better two way player... 29-5 to 19-14 with all that said - SGA is the MVP, currently. I dont care if Denver gets into the 4th spot either, SGA is amazing this year.

SGA is amazing and he deserves it so far, there would be no asterisk if he'd won it on a 65-70 wins team. with that said, Jokic has been better thus far and it's kinda of hard not give it to a player whose team is the best in the NBA (or very close to it) when he's on the floor and are the worst team in the league (literally) when he's off the floor, even if they are only a 4th-5th seed or whatever

we've never seen anyone do what Jokic is doing this season, completely nuts and if u watch the games - they speak louder than the stats. Jokic just had two back to back Sombor 40 pts triple doubles, against the best defensive Center in the league.

unreal stuff, he makes everyone around him significantly better and impact almost every single play in a truly unprecedented way.

I mean he shot **** in the first game, I dont know why you bring that up as some feat to score 40 in almost 40 shots, which is horrible for Jokic standards. He also beat a pretty mediocre Spurs team that is one game above 500, and the Wemby hype train is probably exploding a little bit too fast for me to say he is just a god of defense already, without me researching it thoroughly, he is obviously great.

Everything else is hard to argue with, but I dont think you need to add that first game as some special Jokic game because it was just too poor of a scoring night. If anyone has access to Thinking Basketballs advanced stuff they could find more stuff to really back up who has been better, I dont think Jokic has necessarily been better, the defense has been **** at times, no? He lacks the motor and athleticism to play both sides of the ball over an 82 game season, which is something that should be accorded for. Because he can certainly play good to great defense if he wants to.

In the end, a 9 to 15 game +/- win difference with close to no difference between them in advanced statistics should result in an SGA MVP.

[Mavrelous]

If Denver finishes inside the top 4 in the west, anyone but Jokic winning MVP will have an asterisk.

The best player on the planet amongst an all time great peak is having the best season of his career.

No one else is the MVP but Jokic.

29-5 without his 2nd best player and a potential DPOY candidate that was developing, also Hart missed games, better or very close in most advanced metrics (I want to see Thinking Basketball advanced stats if anyone has access, but I figure its probably very close there as well), better two way player... 29-5 to 19-14 with all that said - SGA is the MVP, currently. I dont care if Denver gets into the 4th spot either, SGA is amazing this year.

SGA is amazing and he deserves it so far, there would be no asterisk if he'd won it on a 65-70 wins team. with that said, Jokic has been better thus far and it's kinda of hard not give it to a player whose team is the best in the NBA (or very close to it) when he's on the floor and are the worst team in the league (literally) when he's off the floor, even if they are only a 4th-5th seed or whatever

we've never seen anyone do what Jokic is doing this season, completely nuts and if u watch the games - they speak louder than the stats. Jokic just had two back to back Sombor 40 pts triple doubles, against the best defensive Center in the league.

unreal stuff, he makes everyone around him significantly better and impact almost every single play in a truly unprecedented way.

This is a team sport, where we try to rank individuals, I have no problem with the opinion Jokic has been the better player this year, but I wouldn't state it as a fact.

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA is hanging with Jokic in EPM because of his defense. We don’t talk about that a lot in MVP convos, but it does matter.

What’s really crazy though is that the two of them are so far ahead of everyone else that they are still the top two offensively as well, in addition to overall.

[Jaqua92]

If Denver finishes inside the top 4 in the west, anyone but Jokic winning MVP will have an asterisk.

The best player on the planet amongst an all time great peak is having the best season of his career.

No one else is the MVP but Jokic.

29-5 without his 2nd best player and a potential DPOY candidate that was developing, also Hart missed games, better or very close in most advanced metrics (I want to see Thinking Basketball advanced stats if anyone has access, but I figure its probably very close there as well), better two way player... 29-5 to 19-14 with all that said - SGA is the MVP, currently. I dont care if Denver gets into the 4th spot either, SGA is amazing this year.

OKC has a much more talented team lol. Why do you guys keep calling Chet a DPOY candidate? How many games has he played this year? And when he did play, the season just started.

He's not a DPOY candidate. There's only one this year.

Jokic is the much better player.

[Jaqua92]

29-5 without his 2nd best player and a potential DPOY candidate that was developing, also Hart missed games, better or very close in most advanced metrics (I want to see Thinking Basketball advanced stats if anyone has access, but I figure its probably very close there as well), better two way player... 29-5 to 19-14 with all that said - SGA is the MVP, currently. I dont care if Denver gets into the 4th spot either, SGA is amazing this year.

SGA is amazing and he deserves it so far, there would be no asterisk if he'd won it on a 65-70 wins team. with that said, Jokic has been better thus far and it's kinda of hard not give it to a player whose team is the best in the NBA (or very close to it) when he's on the floor and are the worst team in the league (literally) when he's off the floor, even if they are only a 4th-5th seed or whatever

we've never seen anyone do what Jokic is doing this season, completely nuts and if u watch the games - they speak louder than the stats. Jokic just had two back to back Sombor 40 pts triple doubles, against the best defensive Center in the league.

unreal stuff, he makes everyone around him significantly better and impact almost every single play in a truly unprecedented way.

This is a team sport, where we try to rank individuals, I have no problem with the opinion Jokic has been the better player this year, but I wouldn't state it as a fact.

Calling SGA the MVP is one thing, disputing Jokic being the best player in the world as fact is something else. And that's outrageous.

SGA is closer to Tatum than he is to Giannis, nvm Jokic lol

[Jaqua92]

Each time Jokic has a big game, the OKC guys have to come in and dismiss him.

[itsxtray]

Jokic getting the better of Wemby at this stage in their respective careers is fine, but it's nothing too crazy to me. Besides, we already know how to make life difficult for Jokic, and the Spurs don't have the personnel to pull it off. We all saw the playoffs—they’d need a big who can bang with Jokic while Wemby loads up to help, like the Wolves did. Even then, Jokic would still get his. You can’t truly stop great players, just make their life more difficult.

[MavsDirk41]

Two man race between Joker and SGA. Giannis has been great but unless Lilliard finds his game again and Middleton can stay heathy and find his shot, the Bucks wont have the record to get Giannis in the conversation.

[Homer38]

Two man race between Joker and SGA. Giannis has been great but unless Lilliard finds his game again and Middleton can stay heathy and find his shot, the Bucks wont have the record to get Giannis in the conversation.

You are right and I think Wemby will be 3rd if the spurs finish the season with a winning record

[MavsDirk41]

Two man race between Joker and SGA. Giannis has been great but unless Lilliard finds his game again and Middleton can stay heathy and find his shot, the Bucks wont have the record to get Giannis in the conversation.

You are right and I think Wemby will be 3rd if the spurs finish the season with a winning record

Yea could be for sure. Im actually pulling for the Spurs to make the play in at least because of him. He is carrying that team.

[Snake3]

Jokic getting the better of Wemby at this stage in their respective careers is fine, but it's nothing too crazy to me. Besides, we already know how to make life difficult for Jokic, and the Spurs don't have the personnel to pull it off. We all saw the playoffs—they’d need a big who can bang with Jokic while Wemby loads up to help, like the Wolves did. Even then, Jokic would still get his. You can’t truly stop great players, just make their life more difficult.

For me, it was really impressive for Wemby. He always make teams second guess when he is around. Jokic hardly ever is reluctant to do things on the court. Wemby makes him overthink a bit. He had to change and angle his shots more around him than anybody I seen him. More than Gobert and AD. Wemby one on one has done a better job than both of them imo. But Jokic still got his. He missed some shots when Wemby wasn't in the game, so it wasn't all Wemby. And Wemby still got 40+ drop on him twice, but Jokic had to work for it. Jokic still had good efficiency last game, just not his usual. Which is more telling how crazy Jokic has been.

And since the Nuggets had no shooting on the floor except for MPJ, the Spurs could crowd the paint. It was pretty crazy. Since Wemby is a great rim protector, it was interesting how Denver was able to score.

[scrabbarista]

Jokic is now

2nd in ppg
3rd in rpg
2nd in apg
7th in spg

He's the only non-guard in the top 14 in spg.

I don't have the data, but I believe his total deflections are top 10. He had two or three big ones in the OT last night.

[Snake3]

They did a stat on reddit too.

When guarded by Wemby, Jokic scored 39 points on 15/27 FG, 5/10 3PT, and 4 FTs made, along with 8 assists and 2 TOs. When guarded by Jokic, Wemby scored 9 points on 3/12 FG, 2/9 3PT, and 1 FT made, along with 2 assists and 1 TO.

[itsxtray]

They did a stat on reddit too.

When guarded by Wemby, Jokic scored 39 points on 15/27 FG, 5/10 3PT, and 4 FTs made, along with 8 assists and 2 TOs. When guarded by Jokic, Wemby scored 9 points on 3/12 FG, 2/9 3PT, and 1 FT made, along with 2 assists and 1 TO.

Wemby's issue on offense right now is that he can't put the ball down to save his life. When he tries to drive from the perimeter, he either can't get past his man or gets the ball poked. When he faces up at the elbow, it's the same, though there he can still just shoot over people. Jokic, in those situations, just backs his defender down using his superior strength, and someone like Giannis is more explosive and powerful, so he has no problems driving from the perimeter. I don’t know how Wemby will address this, but it's something he's going to have to figure out in the coming years. People get upset that he shoots so many jumpers but these are the reasons why.