Four-Teamer 2.0 - Butler, LaVine, Kuminga, Hachimura

[Anderson Hunt]

Bulls out: LaVine, Vucevic, Lonzo Ball, Patrick Williams, and Jevon Carter

Bulls in: Butler, Duncan Robinson, Looney, Hachimura, Vanderbilt, Gary Payton, Reddish, and Jaxon Hayes

Bulls waive: Torrey Craig, Julian Phillips, and Chris Duarte

PG - Giddy - Dosunmu - Tucker
SG - White - Payton - Robinson
C --- Looney - Smith - Hayes
PF - Hachimura - Vanderbilt - Buzelis
SF - Butler - Terry - Reddish

Heat out: Butler and Duncan Robinson

Heat in: Andrew Wiggins, Kyle Anderson, Kuminga, Podzeimski, Gabe Vincent, and Hood-Schifino

Heat waive: Josh Richardson, Alec Burks, and Kevin Love

PG - Anderson - Vincent - Schifino
SG - Herro - Rozier - Podz
C --- Adebayo - Jovic - Ware
PF - Highsmith - Kuminga - Johnson
SF - Wiggins - Jaquez - Larsson

Warriors out: Andrew Wiggins, Kuminga, Podzeimski, Looney, Gary Payton, and Kyle Anderson

Warriors in: Lonzo Ball, Vucevic, Patrick Williams, and Christian Wood

Warriors sign: Markelle Fultz

PG - Fultz - (Ball) - Schroeder
SG - Curry - Hield - Spencer
C --- Vucevic - Wood - Davis
PF - Green - Williams - Santos
SF - Ball - Moody - Waters

Lakers out: Hachimura, Vanderbilt, Vincent, Hood-Schifino, Jaxon Hayes, Christian Wood, and Reddish.

Lakers in: LaVine and Jevon Carter

Lakers sign: Biyombo, Dwight Howard, Keita Bates-Diop, and Troy Brown Jr.

PG - Reaves - (James) - Milton
SG - Christie - Carter - James
C -- Davis - Biyombo - Howard
PF - Smith - Diop - Brown Jr.
SF - James - LaVine - Knecht

[thejigglyroom]

So the Warriors sign Fultz off the scrap heap, start him and in doing so move Curry out of his natural role? This is the second time I’ve seen a Warriors trade where Fulltz is inexplicably signed and starting for them. Is this like and inside joke or some kind of Meme?

I just now looked at the Dubs final roster but Ball at Small Forward? tf?

[Crazy-Canuck]

Lol, warriors get much much worse.

Lose defense, lose athleticism, get much older, give up the better assets, yet dont get any picks.

[jbk1234]

Not really seeing reasons for each team to do this and I suspect that's because each team would not.

[thejigglyroom]

Not really seeing reasons for each team to do this and I suspect that's because each team would not.

Well I can see the Warriors reasoning being “Haha they is dumb” but it was probably wise of the OP not to post reasons

[nykballa2k4]

The boiled down summary is three teams rob from the Warriors.
The only team who improves on this deal is the Heat. Everyone else winds up with a worse overall product.

Bulls have Butler to be the alpha to a husk of a team.

Lakers move all the depth for another guy with injury issues

Warriors trade away their assets that should land them an all-star level player and wind up with one of the more overpaid options out there.

I do think it's a mystery how good players like Howard and Fultz are not on a team, but there is a reason free agents are FREE. Maybe they pissed someone off, maybe they create culture problems or issues where the media asks "why did you play your rookie over this former star?"

[Anderson Hunt]

Not really seeing reasons for each team to do this and I suspect that's because each team would not.

Well I can see the Warriors reasoning being “Haha they is dumb” but it was probably wise of the OP not to post reasons

Warriors out: Andrew Wiggins, Kuminga, Podzeimski, Looney, Gary Payton, and Kyle Anderson

Warriors in: Lonzo Ball, Vucevic, Patrick Williams, and Christian Wood

Warriors sign: Markelle Fultz

PG - Fultz - (Ball) - Schroeder
SG - Curry - Hield - Spencer
C --- Vucevic - Wood - Davis
PF - Green - Williams - Santos
SF - Ball - Moody - Waters

Good for Warriors because they are able to build a proper, well-balanced roster around Curry, get much longer up and down the roster and acquire a legitimate 20-point, offensive big who can shoot from deep, score inside, grab 10 rebounds a game, and become the second option the Warriors need.

Warriors also get an upgrade in wing defense length with the additions of Williams, Ball, and Fultz. Ball and Fultz also afford the Warriors with the opportunity to play Curry more off-ball alongside tall, long, defensive guards. Along with their stellar defense, Ball's energy on offense and constant ball-sharing will help everyone's offensive games churn, and Fultz gives the Warriors a third offensive option in the starting lineup. Regardless of him coming off the scrap heap, I expect him to put up 15 points a game and become a lethal transition threat. Wood gives them a legit backup center who can replicate Vucevic's offense off the bench.

Bad for the Warriors because Vucevic is on the back nine of his career. Giving up young Kuminga for the much older Vucevic is hard to reconcile. Williams replaces Wiggins' defense, but not his offense. I'm banking on Fultz replacing Wiggins' offense, but Fultz is injury-prone (and so are Ball and Williams). Also, Christian Wood is an enigma, and losing Podzeimski could be regrettable in a few years. It's difficult including great character/culture guys like Looney, Payton, and Anderson as salary filler when you really wish you could include Schroeder.

[jbk1234]

Not really seeing reasons for each team to do this and I suspect that's because each team would not.

Well I can see the Warriors reasoning being “Haha they is dumb” but it was probably wise of the OP not to post reasons

Warriors out: Andrew Wiggins, Kuminga, Podzeimski, Looney, Gary Payton, and Kyle Anderson

Warriors in: Lonzo Ball, Vucevic, Patrick Williams, and Christian Wood

Warriors sign: Markelle Fultz

PG - Fultz - (Ball) - Schroeder
SG - Curry - Hield - Spencer
C --- Vucevic - Wood - Davis
PF - Green - Williams - Santos
SF - Ball - Moody - Waters

Good for Warriors because they are able to build a proper, well-balanced roster around Curry, get much longer up and down the roster and acquire a legitimate 20-point, offensive big who can shoot from deep, score inside, grab 10 rebounds a game, and become the second option the Warriors need.

Warriors also get an upgrade in wing defense length with the additions of Williams, Ball, and Fultz. Ball and Fultz also afford the Warriors with the opportunity to play Curry more off-ball alongside tall, long, defensive guards. Along with their stellar defense, Ball's energy on offense and constant ball-sharing will help everyone's offensive games churn, and Fultz gives the Warriors a third offensive option in the starting lineup. Regardless of him coming off the scrap heap, I expect him to put up 15 points a game and become a lethal transition threat. Wood gives them a legit backup center who can replicate Vucevic's offense off the bench.

Bad for the Warriors because Vucevic is on the back nine of his career. Giving up young Kuminga for the much older Vucevic is hard to reconcile. Williams replaces Wiggins' defense, but not his offense. I'm banking on Fultz replacing Wiggins' offense, but Fultz is injury-prone (and so are Ball and Williams). Also, Christian Wood is an enigma, and losing Podzeimski could be regrettable in a few years. It's difficult including great character/culture guys like Looney, Payton, and Anderson as salary filler when you really wish you could include Schroeder.

Except a motivated Wiggins is the best wing defender listed and certainly the best two-way player involved in the trade. Signing Fultz is something they can do with or without the trade. Schroder can be traded, he just can't be aggregated with other players.

The Warriors reportedly wouldn't trade Wiggins and Kuminga for Butler. I don't see why they'd trade both plus Podz for a handful of mediocrity.

[Anderson Hunt]

Well I can see the Warriors reasoning being “Haha they is dumb” but it was probably wise of the OP not to post reasons

Warriors out: Andrew Wiggins, Kuminga, Podzeimski, Looney, Gary Payton, and Kyle Anderson

Warriors in: Lonzo Ball, Vucevic, Patrick Williams, and Christian Wood

Warriors sign: Markelle Fultz

PG - Fultz - (Ball) - Schroeder
SG - Curry - Hield - Spencer
C --- Vucevic - Wood - Davis
PF - Green - Williams - Santos
SF - Ball - Moody - Waters

Good for Warriors because they are able to build a proper, well-balanced roster around Curry, get much longer up and down the roster and acquire a legitimate 20-point, offensive big who can shoot from deep, score inside, grab 10 rebounds a game, and become the second option the Warriors need.

Warriors also get an upgrade in wing defense length with the additions of Williams, Ball, and Fultz. Ball and Fultz also afford the Warriors with the opportunity to play Curry more off-ball alongside tall, long, defensive guards. Along with their stellar defense, Ball's energy on offense and constant ball-sharing will help everyone's offensive games churn, and Fultz gives the Warriors a third offensive option in the starting lineup. Regardless of him coming off the scrap heap, I expect him to put up 15 points a game and become a lethal transition threat. Wood gives them a legit backup center who can replicate Vucevic's offense off the bench.

Bad for the Warriors because Vucevic is on the back nine of his career. Giving up young Kuminga for the much older Vucevic is hard to reconcile. Williams replaces Wiggins' defense, but not his offense. I'm banking on Fultz replacing Wiggins' offense, but Fultz is injury-prone (and so are Ball and Williams). Also, Christian Wood is an enigma, and losing Podzeimski could be regrettable in a few years. It's difficult including great character/culture guys like Looney, Payton, and Anderson as salary filler when you really wish you could include Schroeder.

Except a motivated Wiggins is the best wing defender listed and certainly the best two-way player involved in the trade. Signing Fultz is something they can do with or without the trade. Schroder can be traded, he just can't be aggregated with other players.

The Warriors reportedly wouldn't trade Wiggins and Kuminga for Butler. I don't see why they'd trade both plus Podz for a handful of mediocrity.

Wiggins and Williams are comparable defenders. Kuminga and Vucevic are not comparable. One, albeit significantly older, is a much better fit on this team as a scorer, shooter, rebounder, and big body.

You're right about Wiggins being the best two-way guy when motivated, Fultz being able to signed anytime, and Schroeder being able to be traded alone, but it doesn't change much. Fultz needs a role and Podzeimski and Schroeder are in the way. Wiggins and Kuminga are the cost of Vucevic. Lucky for the Warriors, a great defender in Williams comes back to.

[gswhoops]

Warriors out: Andrew Wiggins, Kuminga, Podzeimski, Looney, Gary Payton, and Kyle Anderson

Warriors in: Lonzo Ball, Vucevic, Patrick Williams, and Christian Wood

Warriors sign: Markelle Fultz

PG - Fultz - (Ball) - Schroeder
SG - Curry - Hield - Spencer
C --- Vucevic - Wood - Davis
PF - Green - Williams - Santos
SF - Ball - Moody - Waters

Good for Warriors because they are able to build a proper, well-balanced roster around Curry, get much longer up and down the roster and acquire a legitimate 20-point, offensive big who can shoot from deep, score inside, grab 10 rebounds a game, and become the second option the Warriors need.

Warriors also get an upgrade in wing defense length with the additions of Williams, Ball, and Fultz. Ball and Fultz also afford the Warriors with the opportunity to play Curry more off-ball alongside tall, long, defensive guards. Along with their stellar defense, Ball's energy on offense and constant ball-sharing will help everyone's offensive games churn, and Fultz gives the Warriors a third offensive option in the starting lineup. Regardless of him coming off the scrap heap, I expect him to put up 15 points a game and become a lethal transition threat. Wood gives them a legit backup center who can replicate Vucevic's offense off the bench.

Bad for the Warriors because Vucevic is on the back nine of his career. Giving up young Kuminga for the much older Vucevic is hard to reconcile. Williams replaces Wiggins' defense, but not his offense. I'm banking on Fultz replacing Wiggins' offense, but Fultz is injury-prone (and so are Ball and Williams). Also, Christian Wood is an enigma, and losing Podzeimski could be regrettable in a few years. It's difficult including great character/culture guys like Looney, Payton, and Anderson as salary filler when you really wish you could include Schroeder.

Except a motivated Wiggins is the best wing defender listed and certainly the best two-way player involved in the trade. Signing Fultz is something they can do with or without the trade. Schroder can be traded, he just can't be aggregated with other players.

The Warriors reportedly wouldn't trade Wiggins and Kuminga for Butler. I don't see why they'd trade both plus Podz for a handful of mediocrity.

Wiggins and Williams are comparable defenders. Kuminga and Vucevic are not comparable. One, albeit significantly older, is a much better fit on this team as a scorer, shooter, rebounder, and big body.

You're right about Wiggins being the best two-way guy when motivated, Fultz being able to signed anytime, and Schroeder being able to be traded alone, but it doesn't change much. Fultz needs a role and Podzeimski and Schroeder are in the way. Wiggins and Kuminga are the cost of Vucevic. Lucky for the Warriors, a great defender in Williams comes back to.

Wait what? Why do the Warriors care about what Fultz "needs"?

[Anderson Hunt]

Except a motivated Wiggins is the best wing defender listed and certainly the best two-way player involved in the trade. Signing Fultz is something they can do with or without the trade. Schroder can be traded, he just can't be aggregated with other players.

The Warriors reportedly wouldn't trade Wiggins and Kuminga for Butler. I don't see why they'd trade both plus Podz for a handful of mediocrity.

Wiggins and Williams are comparable defenders. Kuminga and Vucevic are not comparable. One, albeit significantly older, is a much better fit on this team as a scorer, shooter, rebounder, and big body.

You're right about Wiggins being the best two-way guy when motivated, Fultz being able to signed anytime, and Schroeder being able to be traded alone, but it doesn't change much. Fultz needs a role and Podzeimski and Schroeder are in the way. Wiggins and Kuminga are the cost of Vucevic. Lucky for the Warriors, a great defender in Williams comes back to.

Wait what? Why do the Warriors care about what Fultz "needs"?

The Warriors need Fultz' skillset in the backcourt: athleticism, length, defense.

No player can function without a role. Players are exalted when given a role. Schroeder and Podzeimski are useless because they don't function well with the face of the franchise.

They are both expendable in favor of guys who likely fit better and fill real needs.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

This is just not even close to fair for the Warriors. It looks similar to the hauls people are wrongly suggesting we give for superstars, but in this case the best player we're getting is Vucevic?

[gswhoops]

Wiggins and Williams are comparable defenders. Kuminga and Vucevic are not comparable. One, albeit significantly older, is a much better fit on this team as a scorer, shooter, rebounder, and big body.

You're right about Wiggins being the best two-way guy when motivated, Fultz being able to signed anytime, and Schroeder being able to be traded alone, but it doesn't change much. Fultz needs a role and Podzeimski and Schroeder are in the way. Wiggins and Kuminga are the cost of Vucevic. Lucky for the Warriors, a great defender in Williams comes back to.

Wait what? Why do the Warriors care about what Fultz "needs"?

The Warriors need Fultz' skillset in the backcourt: athleticism, length, defense.

No player can function without a role. Players are exalted when given a role. Schroeder and Podzeimski are useless because they don't function well with the face of the franchise.

They are both expendable in favor of guys who likely fit better and fill real needs.

If Fultz actually did any of those things at an NBA level, he wouldn't be sitting in street clothes in the middle of the season. Idk what your obsession with Fultz is but there's a reason no team has bothered to sign him, even to a vet min deal. We're certainly not pushing aside actual NBA players to clear a path for him.

[Anderson Hunt]

Wait what? Why do the Warriors care about what Fultz "needs"?

The Warriors need Fultz' skillset in the backcourt: athleticism, length, defense.

No player can function without a role. Players are exalted when given a role. Schroeder and Podzeimski are useless because they don't function well with the face of the franchise.

They are both expendable in favor of guys who likely fit better and fill real needs.

If Fultz actually did any of those things at an NBA level, he wouldn't be sitting in street clothes in the middle of the season. Idk what your obsession with Fultz is but there's a reason no team has bothered to sign him, even to a vet min deal. We're certainly not pushing aside actual NBA players to clear a path for him.

I said many of the same things about Kriss Dunn when he was out of the league before Danny Ainge pulled him off the scrap heap.

Your argument that "if he was good, he'd be signed" is iceberg lettuce. It has no nutritional value. It's an empty platitude.

At the end of the day it's all about skillset and fit. Shaun Livingston was a meandering, hollow, and wildly unfulfilled former lottery pick before the Warriors put him in the proper fit for his skills.

I could name many more.

He's not signed because GMs aren't necessarily intelligent all the time, reference the Westbrook and Bradley Beal trades. He's also not signed because he can't shoot straight and has health concerns. It's the same reasons Dunn was exiled from the league and Elfrid Payton can't get a chance.

There are plenty of guys who are currently not in the league who could come in right now and prosper on a good team when given a proper role and an opportunity to play beyond politics.

[gswhoops]

The Warriors need Fultz' skillset in the backcourt: athleticism, length, defense.

No player can function without a role. Players are exalted when given a role. Schroeder and Podzeimski are useless because they don't function well with the face of the franchise.

They are both expendable in favor of guys who likely fit better and fill real needs.

If Fultz actually did any of those things at an NBA level, he wouldn't be sitting in street clothes in the middle of the season. Idk what your obsession with Fultz is but there's a reason no team has bothered to sign him, even to a vet min deal. We're certainly not pushing aside actual NBA players to clear a path for him.

I said many of the same things about Kriss Dunn when he was out of the league before Danny Ainge pulled him off the scrap heap.

Your argument that "if he was good, he'd be signed" is iceberg lettuce. It has no nutritional value. It's an empty platitude.

At the end of the day it's all about skillset and fit. Shaun Livingston was a meandering, hollow, and wildly unfulfilled former lottery pick before the Warriors put him in the proper fit for his skills.

I could name many more.

He's not signed because GMs aren't necessarily intelligent all the time, reference the Westbrook and Bradley Beal trades. He's also not signed because he can't shoot straight and has health concerns. It's the same reasons Dunn was exiled from the league and Elfrid Payton can't get a chance.

There are plenty of guys who are currently not in the league who could come in right now and prosper on a good team when given a proper role and an opportunity to play beyond politics.

"If he were good he'd be signed" is absolutely not an empty platitude. It's the most direct evidence we have of what NBA GMs think of his talent and skillset. Not one of them, including the Warriors, think's he's good enough to even offer a roster spot to. If they thought he was a STARTING caliber player they could simply sign him and find out. No need to sell off better players at a loss.

They haven't done that because they don't think he is; and neither does anyone else.

[Anderson Hunt]

If Fultz actually did any of those things at an NBA level, he wouldn't be sitting in street clothes in the middle of the season. Idk what your obsession with Fultz is but there's a reason no team has bothered to sign him, even to a vet min deal. We're certainly not pushing aside actual NBA players to clear a path for him.

I said many of the same things about Kriss Dunn when he was out of the league before Danny Ainge pulled him off the scrap heap.

Your argument that "if he was good, he'd be signed" is iceberg lettuce. It has no nutritional value. It's an empty platitude.

At the end of the day it's all about skillset and fit. Shaun Livingston was a meandering, hollow, and wildly unfulfilled former lottery pick before the Warriors put him in the proper fit for his skills.

I could name many more.

He's not signed because GMs aren't necessarily intelligent all the time, reference the Westbrook and Bradley Beal trades. He's also not signed because he can't shoot straight and has health concerns. It's the same reasons Dunn was exiled from the league and Elfrid Payton can't get a chance.

There are plenty of guys who are currently not in the league who could come in right now and prosper on a good team when given a proper role and an opportunity to play beyond politics.

"If he were good he'd be signed" is absolutely not an empty platitude. It's the most direct evidence we have of what NBA GMs think of his talent and skillset. Not one of them, including the Warriors, think's he's good enough to even offer a roster spot to. If they thought he was a STARTING caliber player they could simply sign him and find out. No need to sell off better players at a loss.

They haven't done that because they don't think he is; and neither does anyone else.

The presupposition is that GMs are skilled. I happen to think you or I can do there job.

The constant mistakes they make are laughable.

In this case, they're not making a mistake. Fultz is an oversized PG who can't shoot. He must play alongside certain types of players to help the team.

He's the perfect fit alongside Curry, Vucevic, Ball, Green, Williams, Wood, Hield, and Moody, all guys who can stroke it from three.