PG (Magic): #5 in Tankathon Standings

[ConSarnit]

Name me one other trade that worked out like the Kawhi trade where the acquisition cost was as low.

Off the top of my head, the Miami S&T for Butler from Philly and going to the finals. Hell, Philly getting him from Minnesota in the first place for peanuts. That Sixers team would have won the title if they didn't get Kawhi'd.

Boston trading for KG and Houston trading for James Harden were both sending very little for perennial MVP candidates.

When did Miami win the title? A SnT is also not the same thing as trading for a star. Butler wanted to go to Miami (because it's a premier destination, unlike us) and the Sixers accommodated him rather than getting nothing back (much like we did when Bosh went to MIA, or ).

The goal is also to win the title. Not sign the guy whose team loses to the title winner.

The Harden trade is actually an example of an SGA type move, which often comes up here as a "one-off event". Basically, stealing away a high potential young player. He was not a star at the time of the trade. And again I'll ask, when did Houston win the title with Harden?

When I say "worked out" like the Kawhi trade I mean "won the NBA championship". The path for us repeating the Kawhi trade has to be the lowest odds of any strategy we can pursue.

[sidsid]

Name me one other trade that worked out like the Kawhi trade where the acquisition cost was as low.

Off the top of my head, the Miami S&T for Butler from Philly and going to the finals. Hell, Philly getting him from Minnesota in the first place for peanuts. That Sixers team would have won the title if they didn't get Kawhi'd.

Boston trading for KG and Houston trading for James Harden were both sending very little for perennial MVP candidates.

Both Jimmy and Harden didn't turn into the guys they ended up being until they reached their final team (although there is no excuse for the Sixers decision). If Presti knew he would have traded Ibaka instead. We could try this out this year with Zion, but even team compete seems quite down on that approach.

KG got a 22 year old big who was on a path to becoming a 20/10 guy the very next year and multiple 1sts.

Allen for a top 5 lotto pick. There are plenty of discussions on what we'd sell a top 5 pick in this year's draft for and I don't think we do it for a 32 yo Ray Allen. You need a team like the KG Celtics or the GSW if they didn't have delusional owners when they had the 2nd overall. High lotto pick certainty is a great return, if unlikely, although I still prefer the "I'll take your entire future" gamble over it if I'm starting from scratch.

[bape_lovers]

That was like last year near the end

Guys remember when at the beginning of last year we wanted to tank and get a top pick this year?

You do remember?

So why the heck do we have so many sarcastic comments and doom and gloom posts? Why do people keep spamming the same ****?

I knew you guys couldn’t take it lol.

Embrace the pain, and pray the lottery balls or antiCanada NBA sentiments don’t get us a worse pick

Some people don't know pain. They didn't have to sit through the seasons where half our roster were 10 day contract guys

[Fairview4Life]

Name me one other trade that worked out like the Kawhi trade where the acquisition cost was as low.

Off the top of my head, the Miami S&T for Butler from Philly and going to the finals. Hell, Philly getting him from Minnesota in the first place for peanuts. That Sixers team would have won the title if they didn't get Kawhi'd.

Boston trading for KG and Houston trading for James Harden were both sending very little for perennial MVP candidates.

When did Miami win the title? A SnT is also not the same thing as trading for a star. Butler wanted to go to Miami (because it's a premier destination, unlike us) and the Sixers accommodated him rather than getting nothing back (much like we did when Bosh went to MIA, or ).

The goal is also to win the title. Not sign the guy whose team loses to the title winner.

The Harden trade is actually an example of an SGA type move, which often comes up here as a "one-off event". Basically, stealing away a high potential young player. He was not a star at the time of the trade. And again I'll ask, when did Houston win the title with Harden?

When I say "worked out" like the Kawhi trade I mean "won the NBA championship". The path for us repeating the Kawhi trade has to be the lowest odds of any strategy we can pursue.

If winning the title is a requirement, then I have bad news about tanking…or really every plan.

[DelAbbot]

Name me one other trade that worked out like the Kawhi trade where the acquisition cost was as low.

Off the top of my head, the Miami S&T for Butler from Philly and going to the finals. Hell, Philly getting him from Minnesota in the first place for peanuts. That Sixers team would have won the title if they didn't get Kawhi'd.

Boston trading for KG and Houston trading for James Harden were both sending very little for perennial MVP candidates.

Both Jimmy and Harden didn't turn into the guys they ended up being until they reached their final team (although there is no excuse for the Sixers decision). If Presti knew he would have traded Ibaka instead. We could try this out this year with Zion, but even team compete seems quite down on that approach.

KG got a 22 year old big who was on a path to becoming a 20/10 guy the very next year and multiple 1sts.

Allen for a top 5 lotto pick. There are plenty of discussions on what we'd sell a top 5 pick in this year's draft for and I don't think we do it for a 32 yo Ray Allen. You need a team like the KG Celtics or the GSW if they didn't have delusional owners when they had the 2nd overall. High lotto pick certainty is a great return, if unlikely, although I still prefer the "I'll take your entire future" gamble over it if I'm starting from scratch.

I think in the majority of the these examples of cheap acquisitions of disgruntled star players, they are traded to a destination of their preference - which is never Toronto as a preferred destination. The Kawhi example is one where the team traded him away from his preferred destination, basically exiled him to the North.

So we would need wait for a disgruntled star to be traded at a discount, and then either choose to be traded to Toronto (as much %chance happening as a star FA signing in Toronto) OR pissed off his team so much that they exile him to Toronto. The Kawhi trade was a once in a generation deal

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think all you really need to take away from this discussion is that stars move frequently and often for less value than they're worth. There are many different circumstances for why a star might move, at various stages of their career.

Would I be happy with a Randle + DiVincenzo for KAT move? Absolutely. It's a winning team adding a better player and increasing their chances of winning a title. That's good entertainment. Fishing around the toilet for a chance at a KAT-level player (one of the better 1st overall picks in the last two decades) is less entertaining to me.

[Los_29]

Name me one other trade that worked out like the Kawhi trade where the acquisition cost was as low.

Off the top of my head, the Miami S&T for Butler from Philly and going to the finals. Hell, Philly getting him from Minnesota in the first place for peanuts. That Sixers team would have won the title if they didn't get Kawhi'd.

Boston trading for KG and Houston trading for James Harden were both sending very little for perennial MVP candidates.

When did Miami win the title? A SnT is also not the same thing as trading for a star. Butler wanted to go to Miami (because it's a premier destination, unlike us) and the Sixers accommodated him rather than getting nothing back (much like we did when Bosh went to MIA, or ).

The goal is also to win the title. Not sign the guy whose team loses to the title winner.

The Harden trade is actually an example of an SGA type move, which often comes up here as a "one-off event". Basically, stealing away a high potential young player. He was not a star at the time of the trade. And again I'll ask, when did Houston win the title with Harden?

When I say "worked out" like the Kawhi trade I mean "won the NBA championship". The path for us repeating the Kawhi trade has to be the lowest odds of any strategy we can pursue.

The Harden trade was nothing like the SGA trade though. As far as I know any team could’ve acquired Harden. And Houston wasn’t signing a superstar player on the condition that it traded for Harden.

Those teams might’ve not won the title but they were close. And they were close because those trades put them there.

I definitely agree that the stars were aligned with Kawhi. But any team could’ve had him, it was a huge gamble and top-tier players are available every year and sometimes at discounts. That is nothing new. The SGA trade on the other hand.

[sidsid]

Off the top of my head, the Miami S&T for Butler from Philly and going to the finals. Hell, Philly getting him from Minnesota in the first place for peanuts. That Sixers team would have won the title if they didn't get Kawhi'd.

Boston trading for KG and Houston trading for James Harden were both sending very little for perennial MVP candidates.

Both Jimmy and Harden didn't turn into the guys they ended up being until they reached their final team (although there is no excuse for the Sixers decision). If Presti knew he would have traded Ibaka instead. We could try this out this year with Zion, but even team compete seems quite down on that approach.

KG got a 22 year old big who was on a path to becoming a 20/10 guy the very next year and multiple 1sts.

Allen for a top 5 lotto pick. There are plenty of discussions on what we'd sell a top 5 pick in this year's draft for and I don't think we do it for a 32 yo Ray Allen. You need a team like the KG Celtics or the GSW if they didn't have delusional owners when they had the 2nd overall. High lotto pick certainty is a great return, if unlikely, although I still prefer the "I'll take your entire future" gamble over it if I'm starting from scratch.

I think in the majority of the these examples of cheap acquisitions of disgruntled star players, they are traded to a destination of their preference - which is never Toronto as a preferred destination. The Kawhi example is one where the team traded him away from his preferred destination, basically exiled him to the North.

So we would need wait for a disgruntled star to be traded at a discount, and then either choose to be traded to Toronto (as much %chance happening as a star FA signing in Toronto) OR pissed off his team so much that they exile him to Toronto. The Kawhi trade was a once in a generation deal

Basically the odds of these trades working out are probably lower than the probability good outcomes of a Zion trade right now. The Kawhi example needed not only his health to keep up through the playoffs, but to win it all in the same year we traded for him.

The Celtics could have still sold Tatum or Brown to the Pelicans for AD after he poisoned the well to force his way to the Lakers. Maybe he ungruntals for the rest of the year and they make a run. Probably looking at a Jimmy situation the next year anyway. That's why few teams actually pull the trigger on trades like Masai did. Not a sustainable model.

A small market team will take those chances if they already drafted their superstar, who is a magnet for retaining the traded player. See the Bucks and Dame.

[MEDIC]

I look at Cleveland. I really like their team & I think I underrated their acquisition of Mitchell when it happened. He has been fantastic for them.

Until Cleveland can advance to at least the ECF...then I can't really give them a positive grade. I need to see playoff advancement because that's what Mithell was brought in for...and after many playoff appearances with Utah and a couple with Cleveland...Mitchell hasn't been able to get there.

That's fine. I would still pay money to see that roster play if it was in Toronto & I would be very happy with the team.