2024-25 Regular Season Thread Vol. 3

[Voltron914]

It’s an easy fix just don’t trade him. Any serious team that Jimmy would like to sign with will have to acquire him via SNT anyways if he opts out. Miami isn’t competing this year or the next despite what they may say publicly about that. There is no rush to move Jimmy. Just keep suspending him if he wants to behave like a clown while under contract.

The WORST THING that Miami can do is take on more salary past 26 in any deal involving Jimmy. They would be better off just letting him hang out at home. If the NBA gets upset because one of their most marketable stars on one of their most marketable teams isn’t playing basketball, just remind them that this issue likely doesn’t exist if the NBA didn’t decide to selectively get involved with the Lillard situation because they didn’t want to see Miami get their way.

100% facts on the Dame situation. so the max extension butler wants would've stretched into the 26 season cap space? i get it now. like other posters his ego couldn't handle the shift to future plans of a post super star era with a lesser veteran role and salary so he did a self destruct. he didn't want to hear it from the Heat but the market is telling him the same thing right now

Each year that goes by his chances at a the most money he can get goes down. We don't know if Miami had been telling Butler and his agent to try to keep them ok with no chance at real money past 2025. I don't think there was any chance Butler could have gotten an extension except for barging basement prices, they may have led him to believe the max was possible still but changing the offense kinda shows, they're starting to pivot away from him, so he wanted out and they said nah, not unless we get a big return. 100% fine for a team to do, but these are the situations that Miami prays on with other teams, that's my issue with Miami doing it. At some point the history that they keep doing this to the higher level players will make other players wonder if it'll happen to them and take that in consideration before forcing their way to Miami like LeBron, Bosh, Butler and even Oladipo did.

i get it. its like the words not matching the actions and Butler is not the type to sit back quietly watching it happen. at the end of the day its all about about business which we have seen with our players during this butler era with our role players leaving. probably why they slowed down with the heat lifer stuff too but Jimmy doesn't have the reputation to come out of this situation with no fault either. ultimately i dont think this hurts our ability to attract future stars. Butler was just a mercenary as another poster put it for us

[SoFlaKingReal]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

What's interesting about this particular situation, Butler has a history of making things uncomfortable when he wanted out and Miami refused to trade him this summer after attacking him verbally in the media after a season he got hurt in and tried to keep playing and while losing and then lost his father, all in a 6 month period, I would think going after a player like that in the media would be a pretty difficult thing to do to someone you at least like, let alone your top player.

The truth is none of us have any idea what has been going on behind the scenes. For all we know, Butler has been undermining the team for a long time.

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

Hopefully Miami gets a MVP level player in 2026, because if not... you could be looking at many years of being in the middle with really no hope of getting better. IT SUCKS, and Miami was headed down that path until Butler forced his way to Miami which with this history of these situations, may be even more difficult to have happen in the future.

I think when Butler arrived you were looking forward to not winning but seeing point Winslow?

Anything can happen, Minnesota got so bad they lucked into the #1 pick which was a protected pick on a year with a franchise player on it, but a lot of teams don't get that lucky rebuilding.

[AirP.]

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

What's interesting about this particular situation, Butler has a history of making things uncomfortable when he wanted out and Miami refused to trade him this summer after attacking him verbally in the media after a season he got hurt in and tried to keep playing and while losing and then lost his father, all in a 6 month period, I would think going after a player like that in the media would be a pretty difficult thing to do to someone you at least like, let alone your top player.

The truth is none of us have any idea what has been going on behind the scenes. For all we know, Butler has been undermining the team for a long time.

Sure, especially since being called out by Riley in the media which wasn't done behind the scenes like it SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE, Riley has his own opinions, doesn't mean he needs to go to the press with them but he did. It's terrible for Butler to call out a coach or FO to the media but it seems it's 100% ok to do that as management in a disrespectful way to a player. I think that disrespect (should have been done privately) was where everything went bad.

[Beenie]

Players aren’t contractually obligated to shut up or have their contract annulled when they have disagreements with their teams.

If these billion dollar corporations aren’t honoring their side of things, I don’t expect their laborers to not make a fuss.

Honoring their side of things? Again, where in a player's contract does it state that the team must make moves the player approves of?

The only reason teams bow to players is because teams don't want to be blackballed by agents, there's nothing legally in the players favor.

Where in the contract does it say that if a team breaks their promise to trade their picks to provide their franchise player with vet help, that the player can’t publicly state their displeasure or have their contract annulled?

[Tim_Hardawayy]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

No I'm not? The accountability is for the fans to decide, stop watching/going to games. Players going to war with front offices does nothing to improve them, name me an example of a player who did such a thing and how the team magically changed their ways and got better for it. In most cases, its exactly the opposite, its just used as a way for players/agents to blackball teams without taking accountability, since a lot of these failed moves are also due to... *drumroll*.... players! Not necessarily the same ones, but regardless.

And players are notoriously as dumb and shortsighted as fans are, but even worse since they have a financial stake in the situation that is often at odds with the team.

That being said, I think myself and you/Airp are way off in terms of how we view the league and the balance of power between players/front offices right now so we probably aren't going to come to agreement. I'm not at all a fan of the players running things, never have been, and I'm not being a hypocrite here although I'm not going to try to find my posts from 10 years ago to prove it.

[DayofMourning]

We are trying to incorporate Bam more offensively, but hes just not that guy. His ball handling under pressure is pretty bad. To be able to operate at a high level, you got to have that ball on a string. The awkward turnovers under any type of pressure arent goinng to improve at this point.

Now, imagine Butler seeing that and having the ball taken out of his hands for that result. I think his ego cant handle watching inefficient plays in others when hes proven he can handle that load well.

We are going to tank/treadmill until guys are being played in their best roles. Unfortunately, we dont have that alpha scorer who eases others burdens. Its still a stars league.

We’re not though is the thing, we have a bunch of offense only players and his shot attempts have dropped and his usage has dropped tremendously. It all started when we traded our only playmaker for Terry, we’re featuring Bam less than we ever have. He was averaging 22 prior to the Terry trade and had a 27% usage which is down to 21% post Terry trade.

Its the type of scoring opportunities, not just usage. Him driving on his man is the biggest issue I see. Its not in his wheelhouse and refs are not going to reward him. So, its usually a tough shot or turnover.

[AirP.]

100% facts on the Dame situation. so the max extension butler wants would've stretched into the 26 season cap space? i get it now. like other posters his ego couldn't handle the shift to future plans of a post super star era with a lesser veteran role and salary so he did a self destruct. he didn't want to hear it from the Heat but the market is telling him the same thing right now

Each year that goes by his chances at a the most money he can get goes down. We don't know if Miami had been telling Butler and his agent to try to keep them ok with no chance at real money past 2025. I don't think there was any chance Butler could have gotten an extension except for barging basement prices, they may have led him to believe the max was possible still but changing the offense kinda shows, they're starting to pivot away from him, so he wanted out and they said nah, not unless we get a big return. 100% fine for a team to do, but these are the situations that Miami prays on with other teams, that's my issue with Miami doing it. At some point the history that they keep doing this to the higher level players will make other players wonder if it'll happen to them and take that in consideration before forcing their way to Miami like LeBron, Bosh, Butler and even Oladipo did.

i get it. its like the words not matching the actions and Butler is not the type to sit back quietly watching it happen. at the end of the day its all about about business which we have seen with our players during this butler era with our role players leaving. probably why they slowed down with the heat lifer stuff too but Jimmy doesn't have the reputation to come out of this situation with no fault either. ultimately i dont think this hurts our ability to attract future stars. Butler was just a mercenary as another poster put it for us

He's seen as a mercenary at this time, for half a decade he was the guy who raised the team out of the mud that going nowhere and all the hope was on point Winslow, Butler forced himself to Miami kinda saved the franchise in the 2020s. Now, if Butler were say 30, I think people would have had a real issue with Riley saying what he did in public (it being done public is the reason it was bad) because they saw a lot more good years with the player, but since he's older, having limited amount of time of being a high level player, **** him.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Spoiler:

Hopefully Miami gets a MVP level player in 2026, because if not... you could be looking at many years of being in the middle with really no hope of getting better. IT SUCKS, and Miami was headed down that path until Butler forced his way to Miami which with this history of these situations, may be even more difficult to have happen in the future.

I think when Butler arrived you were looking forward to not winning but seeing point Winslow?

Anything can happen, Minnesota got so bad they lucked into the #1 pick which was a protected pick on a year with a franchise player on it, but a lot of teams don't get that lucky rebuilding.

I know you're trying to sound neutral when you say this, but it just comes off as bitter.

[greg4012]

How did you all get a copy of Jimmy's contract? Should we make this a legal thread?

[DayofMourning]

Wonder what the Sixers package for Butler was?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Wonder what the Sixers package for Butler was?

Was probably all pick based since they had the space to absorb him.

[Hoops3355]

Then, let it spread to the rest of the league, and end this insufferable era of player entitlement. No other professional league has the players routinely demanding teams to trade them to their preferred destinations, or even making trade demands period. I'm getting sick of how player centric the NBA has become, its a league now where the player fans have more to root for than the team fans do in many cases.

I think it's purely financial right now. As Butler continues to get older it's going to be harder for him to maximize his pay before he can't play anymore which is why he wanted an extension this last season, it would have been removing his PO and adding 2 seasons at big money, basically just 1 extra year then he could have now BUT this would have that money on Miami's books in 2026 which is set up for a great pivot which he obviously doesn't care about but Miami does, so he asks to be traded to someone who will give him the money, they said no which may cost him millions because it's much easier to get an extra year or 2 at 34 (which he was this summer) vs 36 (after he played out his option), so he said he's going to opt out in hopes he can still get the most money he can make.

So basically, Miami wanted to just pay Butler well until their pivot point which is 100% what they should do but once Butler said he wanted to be traded to try to get more money past 2026 they should have moved him. Miami, Riley thought hey, he has to play great to get another contract, but every year that goes by that potential drops.

So when Ethan says it's about money, it is, he's just not saying Miami wanted to use him up (which costs Butler money long-term because he'll get less the older he gets to signing his next contract) and then let him hit the open market much older. It's a good idea for the FO, not so good to do with someone who has options, the same options Miami utilizes to get players to force their way to Miami.... THIS is why it's different for Miami vs basically everyone else and why Paul Pierce is right. The highest level players who can go basically anywhere will take this in consideration, everyone else probably not, money talks. When people talk about contracts and how much money max players get... they get the max, even though they may be worth more, but there's a ceiling of what they can get, the max is to help TEAMS out, not the players.

Jimmy Butler is the one who’s in the wrong here. This wouldn’t be happening if there was someone available this summer who could pay him. He had a rude awakening when he and his agent realized that Miami wasn’t gonna keel over and give him an extension.


PP is a bum. No one cares about Paul Pierce even his own organization he won a ring with. Beyond that they said the same **** after Zo left, Shaq left, after LeBron, etc. yet here we are 3 rings, one of the winnest orgs in the last 30 years, and Spo. Plus we’re getting ready to bounce all the mini Jimmy jock sniffing fan club outta here too finally. I’m not even worried anyone we got meetings without space and for the first time since 2010 we got legit max space in 2026 doesn’t get better than that for a fast rebuild with a squad that’s going to be exponentially better than the team Jimmy walked into.

[twix2500]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

What's interesting about this particular situation, Butler has a history of making things uncomfortable when he wanted out and Miami refused to trade him this summer after attacking him verbally in the media after a season he got hurt in and tried to keep playing and while losing and then lost his father, all in a 6 month period, I would think going after a player like that in the media would be a pretty difficult thing to do to someone you at least like, let alone your top player.

You are very much insinuating Riley complaints of availability was about Butler missing time because of his father. How many games do you think Butler missed because of his father situation? Did Butler miss the playoffs because of his father situation, which is the only absence that Riley referred too? The only reason you or anyone here bringing up Butler's father is because Butler twitter campaign brought it up and corelated Riley statements to Butler's fathers illness. Which is a grimey shield to hide behind. Because one the Heat will not talk about or have not use Butler father situation as a PR move.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Need the Rockets to show some fortitude and trade FVV and fillers for Rozier and Butler. We then flip the fillers for Brandon Ingram.

[contract]

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

What's interesting about this particular situation, Butler has a history of making things uncomfortable when he wanted out and Miami refused to trade him this summer after attacking him verbally in the media after a season he got hurt in and tried to keep playing and while losing and then lost his father, all in a 6 month period, I would think going after a player like that in the media would be a pretty difficult thing to do to someone you at least like, let alone your top player.

The truth is none of us have any idea what has been going on behind the scenes. For all we know, Butler has been undermining the team for a long time.

Not likely. We would have just moved him if that was the case.

[twix2500]

Butler relationship with his father is a low down narrative and its the first sign that Butler's media campaign will play dirty.

[Hoops3355]

Players aren’t contractually obligated to shut up or have their contract annulled when they have disagreements with their teams.

If these billion dollar corporations aren’t honoring their side of things, I don’t expect their laborers to not make a fuss.

Honoring their side of things? Again, where in a player's contract does it state that the team must make moves the player approves of?

The only reason teams bow to players is because teams don't want to be blackballed by agents, there's nothing legally in the players favor.

Where in the contract does it say that if a team breaks their promise to trade their picks to provide their franchise player with vet help, that the player can’t publicly state their displeasure or have their contract annulled?

Well sir. I have news for you. I started out doing contract law and unfortunately for Jimmy we met our contract obligation when we add his super best friend forever Kyle Lowry.


In all seriousness there’s no chance that there’s anything official in writing that says that Miami will do this. Jimmy agent is dumb and just didn’t explain to him that the new CBA was gonna clown him is really what it boils down to.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[AirP.]

That being said, I think myself and you/Airp are way off in terms of how we view the league and the balance of power between players/front offices right now so we probably aren't going to come to agreement. I'm not at all a fan of the players running things, never have been, and I'm not being a hypocrite here although I'm not going to try to find my posts from 10 years ago to prove it.

Yes, I use to be a team guy, stood behind my company/team and saw the players as high paid assets, with time I started understanding players were people and made decidions that would put themselves in harm's way to have success. For example, Butler in Minnesota, tears his meniscus while taking a team who missed the playoffs 14 years and had them in 3rd place behind powerhouses of Golden State and Houston. Instead of repairing the meniscus which takes a long time to recover he opted to remove it to get back on the court in 6 weeks, a week before the playoffs started to help his team have success and with that decision, he opted into dealing with bone on bone pain for the rest of his life. What did he get for that, ownership backing the young guys vs doing what they could for a player who just was their best player and sacrificed his health for the organization. Much like in almost every fanbase it's youth/the unknown with "potential" > everything. It accidentally got out a few years ago (thanks Scalabrine) Butler had so much pain during the playoff series he needed to not play but instead took 2 shots to the knee to handle the pain and help Miami win against Boston. Sometimes players do "more" than what they should to contribute to a franchise yet are still treated as just assets, I can't be for that now that I know that happens on a pretty regular basis around the league. You hear retired vets mention this from time to time, management pushing them to do things while injured.

I'm not a fan of players running the league because it would be worse, but when Riley went public with the shut your mouth, I thought that was a line he shouldn't have crossed in public and that's another reason I couldn't keep following this team after Butler left even if I wanted to, for as legendary of a figure Riley and I do believe he's changed his last 10 years in decision making, he just wanted to alpha Butler and did it in a demeaning manner as someone in management/being an owner.

Have to say, it was fun being a fan of a franchise, but it also sucks being a fan of a franchise that does things you don't agree with. Chiago was way worse than basically any other franchise I've followed some. Woj wrote a story years ago about how part of the coaching staff thought the FO planted bugs in their offices to find out what they said.

Spoiler:

Before answering, the coach turned his fan on full blast. For the visitor, everything was becoming even stranger. He gave the assistant a befuddled look, as though to say, "What are you doing?"

"I'm not taking any chances," the coach said, refusing to risk the possibility of those walls being bugged.

https://sports.yahoo.com/tom-thibodeau-makes-his-last-stand-with-the-bulls-072125079.html