2024-25 Regular Season Thread Vol. 3

[Flash4thewin]

The player signs a contract. Nowhere in the contract does it state, "if the team doesn't make the moves you approve of, the player is allowed to demand a trade and/or quit on the team". If the NBPA wants to fight for that, do it, make it official, so I can just quit watching forever.

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

No I'm not? The accountability is for the fans to decide, stop watching/going to games. Players going to war with front offices does nothing to improve them, name me an example of a player who did such a thing and how the team magically changed their ways and got better for it. In most cases, its exactly the opposite, its just used as a way for players/agents to blackball teams without taking accountability, since a lot of these failed moves are also due to... *drumroll*.... players! Not necessarily the same ones, but regardless.

And players are notoriously as dumb and shortsighted as fans are, but even worse since they have a financial stake in the situation that is often at odds with the team.

That being said, I think myself and you/Airp are way off in terms of how we view the league and the balance of power between players/front offices right now so we probably aren't going to come to agreement. I'm not at all a fan of the players running things, never have been, and I'm not being a hypocrite here although I'm not going to try to find my posts from 10 years ago to prove it.

While we all may have different views or opinions, I think it’s safe to say we all want to win another championship. That’s what this is all about at the end of the day. We want that parade.

As for an example, Kobe was pissed with the Laker for not getting him help, he then demanded a trade to the Bulls. The Laker then changed course, got him help and he won a few more rings. Unfortunately that is not always the case.

[contract]

Butler relationship with his father is a low down narrative and its the first sign that Butler's media campaign will play dirty.

So will the Heat.

[twix2500]

You are basically giving front offices a blank check with no accountability. Thats why I have nothing but respect for players who see a front office not live up to their part and leave. This has helped us get star players, and it has also hurt us losing star players. It all about accountability and thats a two way street.

No I'm not? The accountability is for the fans to decide, stop watching/going to games. Players going to war with front offices does nothing to improve them, name me an example of a player who did such a thing and how the team magically changed their ways and got better for it. In most cases, its exactly the opposite, its just used as a way for players/agents to blackball teams without taking accountability, since a lot of these failed moves are also due to... *drumroll*.... players! Not necessarily the same ones, but regardless.

And players are notoriously as dumb and shortsighted as fans are, but even worse since they have a financial stake in the situation that is often at odds with the team.

That being said, I think myself and you/Airp are way off in terms of how we view the league and the balance of power between players/front offices right now so we probably aren't going to come to agreement. I'm not at all a fan of the players running things, never have been, and I'm not being a hypocrite here although I'm not going to try to find my posts from 10 years ago to prove it.

While we all may have different views or opinions, I think it’s safe to say we all want to win another championship. That’s what this is all about at the end of the day. We want that parade.

As for an example, Kobe was pissed with the Laker for not getting him help, he then demanded a trade to the Bulls. The Laker then changed course, got him help and he won a few more rings. Unfortunately that is not always the case.

I just listened to Kobe fans a few weeks ago saying Kobe didnt get any help. That when he won his two titles he played with no stars. Saying Kobe won his titles by himself unlike Lebron or Wade. Some mention Gasol but Kobe fans said an 18 pt scorer is not a co star just another role player. Its interesting that you use Kobe as an example.

[Rapaz]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Funny seeing us low balled after years of doing it ourselves when someone comes available.

[Flash4thewin]

Funny seeing us low balled after years of doing it ourselves when someone comes available.

[greg4012]

No I'm not? The accountability is for the fans to decide, stop watching/going to games. Players going to war with front offices does nothing to improve them, name me an example of a player who did such a thing and how the team magically changed their ways and got better for it. In most cases, its exactly the opposite, its just used as a way for players/agents to blackball teams without taking accountability, since a lot of these failed moves are also due to... *drumroll*.... players! Not necessarily the same ones, but regardless.

And players are notoriously as dumb and shortsighted as fans are, but even worse since they have a financial stake in the situation that is often at odds with the team.

That being said, I think myself and you/Airp are way off in terms of how we view the league and the balance of power between players/front offices right now so we probably aren't going to come to agreement. I'm not at all a fan of the players running things, never have been, and I'm not being a hypocrite here although I'm not going to try to find my posts from 10 years ago to prove it.

While we all may have different views or opinions, I think it’s safe to say we all want to win another championship. That’s what this is all about at the end of the day. We want that parade.

As for an example, Kobe was pissed with the Laker for not getting him help, he then demanded a trade to the Bulls. The Laker then changed course, got him help and he won a few more rings. Unfortunately that is not always the case.

I just listened to Kobe fans a few weeks ago saying Kobe didnt get any help. That when he won his two titles he played with no stars. Saying Kobe won his titles by himself unlike Lebron or Wade. Some mention Gasol but Kobe fans said an 18 pt scorer is not a co star just another role player. Its interesting that you use Kobe as an example.

Everyone loves to pump their preferred narratives. Kobe fanboys work overtime. Kobe was working with the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA.

[Beenie]

Honoring their side of things? Again, where in a player's contract does it state that the team must make moves the player approves of?

The only reason teams bow to players is because teams don't want to be blackballed by agents, there's nothing legally in the players favor.

Where in the contract does it say that if a team breaks their promise to trade their picks to provide their franchise player with vet help, that the player can’t publicly state their displeasure or have their contract annulled?

Well sir. I have news for you. I started out doing contract law and unfortunately for Jimmy we met our contract obligation when we add his super best friend forever Kyle Lowry.


In all seriousness there’s no chance that there’s anything official in writing that says that Miami will do this. Jimmy agent is dumb and just didn’t explain to him that the new CBA was gonna clown him is really what it boils down to.

I was mostly alluding to Dame who was initially evoked.

FYI, my core point is to say that there's no contractual clause, as far as I know, that terminates a player's contract if they decide to be publicly critical of the team.

So the argument that a contract is the sole thing that binds a player or a team's behavior in these situations is moot.

If a player feels like they've been wronged in some way by the team, contract or no contract, I wouldn't be surprised if/when they voice their frustration publicly.

[insfo]

Spoiler:

Plenty goes wrong with it. It's not a backcourt Miami should have invested in. The dialogue among most ever since the Rozier trade was that Rozier and Herro shouldn't coexist. The dialogue for the entire duration of the Herro and Duncan on the heat is that one needs to come off the bench.

Pointing out another issue with the current roster does nothing to validate the proposition that Miami should make the proactive decision to invest in making the frontcourt a bad fit (and overall downgrade) as well.

Glad we can agree that Rozier and Herro should not be starting together.

Devin Carter is cool. But I'm not seeing the 6'2 22-year old rookie that (1) doesnt have a floor general's game, (2) doesn't have a lead scoring guard's game; and (3) has played in 1 NBA game and still hasn't score his first basket in the NBA as some sort of prize worthy of creating further mess. I'm confident Carter will be a high quality NBA defender. I'm not trading Bam for that. Might as well just scoop up 27 y/o Dennis Smith Jr off the trash heap for that.

Any trade for Bam needs to start with a HAUL of picks at minimum.

What kind of fit is Bam and Ware?

Spo keeping us all in suspense. Perhaps he knows it’s a bad fit that won’t work which is why he refuses to try the pairing.

And I’m just not buying the idea that sabonis would be a net downgrade to Bam if they were to keep him.

FYI, if they moved sabonis they could still get a haul back while also adding Carter who ill suspect is a better version of Dru Smith and has good long term upside, and also Murray who imo has a higher ceiling than Jovic and Jaquez.

We'll see. It has a ton of potential IMO but Ware needs to not be rushed for his impact to work.

I know Ware can't bump with strong big men right now. I know Ware doesn't have the footspeed to defend any position other than center. I know Bam is one of the best one-on-one defenders of every single position on the court in the world. I know Bam has the footspeed to defend on the perimeter.

Sabonis and Ware have all the same fit concerns offensively that Bam and Ware would have, except with the bonus of also being a wretched fit on defense rather than potentially an elite one.

The fact that Sabonis has made 10 more 3pters total on the season than Bam doesn't change that.

I'll pass on making Miami the Kings sans Fox.

While I agree with a lot of this, I don’t think we can keep harping on the “can defend 1-5” narrative. Bam can defend 1-4 at an elite level, especially for a big, but has trouble with size. So unless the opposing C is undersized or not an offensive threat, he will have trouble. Which is also the reason he keeps itching to switch at every chance he gets when forced to defend a big.

Defensively is where I’d love to see the Bam-Ware pairing even though seeing Ware stroke a few 3s looks enticing for the offensive potential.

[dubasilva]

We will trade Jimmy for nothing exciting, another complementary player or 2.
Now, we have a team with no superstars. Bam is a great defensive force but can't carry this team.
Hero improved, but he's not a star.
To be honest, the next player that will be asked to be traded is Bam.

Pat will not do it, but I'm all about rebuilding through the draft—your draft superstars, like Wade. Superstars attack more superstars, like Lebron and Bosh, like Shaq.

We're becoming the Miami Dolphins. Always in the middle of the pack.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

We will trade Jimmy for nothing exciting, another complementary player or 2.
Now, we have a team with no superstars. Bam is a great defensive force but can't carry this team.
Hero improved, but he's not a star.
To be honest, the next player that will be asked to be traded is Bam.

Pat will not do it, but I'm all about rebuilding through the draft—your draft superstars, like Wade. Superstars attack more superstars, like Lebron and Bosh, like Shaq.

We're becoming the Miami Dolphins. Always in the middle of the pack.

Maybe its because I don't follow as closely anymore, but some of these takes are just absurd. The Dolphins have been mediocre to bad for 20+ years, the Heat haven't missed the playoffs in years and have been to 2 of the last 5 Finals and 3 of the last 5 ECF.

I get that it feels good to panic because its more interesting than just accepting sometimes nothing interesting is happening, but damn.

[twix2500]

While we all may have different views or opinions, I think it’s safe to say we all want to win another championship. That’s what this is all about at the end of the day. We want that parade.

As for an example, Kobe was pissed with the Laker for not getting him help, he then demanded a trade to the Bulls. The Laker then changed course, got him help and he won a few more rings. Unfortunately that is not always the case.

I just listened to Kobe fans a few weeks ago saying Kobe didnt get any help. That when he won his two titles he played with no stars. Saying Kobe won his titles by himself unlike Lebron or Wade. Some mention Gasol but Kobe fans said an 18 pt scorer is not a co star just another role player. Its interesting that you use Kobe as an example.

Everyone loves to pump their preferred narratives. Kobe fanboys work overtime. Kobe was working with the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA.

I agree, that Kobe had a squad. But the Lakers didnt give up a a haul for Gasol and Gasol and Bam are very equivalent as players. I agree that Butler didnt get the team that Kobe got, but Butler did get a team that had the best record in the East and missed the finals because Butler missed the game winning shot. Did the Heat build a team that was gonna last multiple years, no. But they did build Butler a real good title team. If the Heat was healthy or Butler hit the game winning shot, they are in the finals 2 out of three years. These hyperbolic critics on the Heats teams are just click bait arguments. The Heat built contenders for Butler, it just wasnt enough to get over the hump.

[MorbidHEAT]

We will trade Jimmy for nothing exciting, another complementary player or 2.
Now, we have a team with no superstars. Bam is a great defensive force but can't carry this team.
Hero improved, but he's not a star.
To be honest, the next player that will be asked to be traded is Bam.

Pat will not do it, but I'm all about rebuilding through the draft—your draft superstars, like Wade. Superstars attack more superstars, like Lebron and Bosh, like Shaq.

We're becoming the Miami Dolphins. Always in the middle of the pack.

We def aren’t becoming the Miami Dolphins. Having said that, I’m ok with trading Bam and anybody else. Keep the rookie contracts, but everybody else should be on the table. The full rebuild is inevitable, but the Heat seemingly refuse to accept it.

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

What kind of fit is Bam and Ware?

Spo keeping us all in suspense. Perhaps he knows it’s a bad fit that won’t work which is why he refuses to try the pairing.

And I’m just not buying the idea that sabonis would be a net downgrade to Bam if they were to keep him.

FYI, if they moved sabonis they could still get a haul back while also adding Carter who ill suspect is a better version of Dru Smith and has good long term upside, and also Murray who imo has a higher ceiling than Jovic and Jaquez.

We'll see. It has a ton of potential IMO but Ware needs to not be rushed for his impact to work.

I know Ware can't bump with strong big men right now. I know Ware doesn't have the footspeed to defend any position other than center. I know Bam is one of the best one-on-one defenders of every single position on the court in the world. I know Bam has the footspeed to defend on the perimeter.

Sabonis and Ware have all the same fit concerns offensively that Bam and Ware would have, except with the bonus of also being a wretched fit on defense rather than potentially an elite one.

The fact that Sabonis has made 10 more 3pters total on the season than Bam doesn't change that.

I'll pass on making Miami the Kings sans Fox.

While I agree with a lot of this, I don’t think we can keep harping on the “can defend 1-5” narrative. Bam can defend 1-4 at an elite level, especially for a big, but has trouble with size. So unless the opposing C is undersized or not an offensive threat, he will have trouble. Which is also the reason he keeps itching to switch at every chance he gets when forced to defend a big.

Defensively is where I’d love to see the Bam-Ware pairing even though seeing Ware stroke a few 3s looks enticing for the offensive potential.

Sorry but this is objectively false.

Bam defends the elite scoring bigs in the NBA as well or better than anyone else. Those freaks just win more than they lose against anyone in isolated instances.

I'd argue Bam is probably the best individual Jokic defender in the world.

Ware is basically toast whenever a stronger big man (which most are) gets position in the post--which he allows very easily. He will get better at it with (1) added muscle, (2) enhanced BBIQ, and (3) better technique. He will improve and it will be very beneficial for a Bam-Ware pairing as a force multiplier for the defense.

Nonetheless, even with Ware's current limitations, his length hanging around the basket provides other benefits.

[Enso]

Read on Twitter

What a chit show

Whoever did that in Miami is a moron creating more drama for nothing

[Kobewade11]

Read on Twitter

He’s tough he’ll be alright

[greg4012]

I just listened to Kobe fans a few weeks ago saying Kobe didnt get any help. That when he won his two titles he played with no stars. Saying Kobe won his titles by himself unlike Lebron or Wade. Some mention Gasol but Kobe fans said an 18 pt scorer is not a co star just another role player. Its interesting that you use Kobe as an example.

Everyone loves to pump their preferred narratives. Kobe fanboys work overtime. Kobe was working with the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA.

I agree, that Kobe had a squad. But the Lakers didnt give up a a haul for Gasol and Gasol and Bam are very equivalent as players. I agree that Butler didnt get the team that Kobe got, but Butler did get a team that had the best record in the East and missed the finals because Butler missed the game winning shot. Did the Heat build a team that was gonna last multiple years, no. But they did build Butler a real good title team. If the Heat was healthy or Butler hit the game winning shot, they are in the finals 2 out of three years. These hyperbolic critics on the Heats teams are just click bait arguments. The Heat built contenders for Butler, it just wasnt enough to get over the hump.

100%

[greg4012]

I get that it feels good to panic because its more interesting than just accepting sometimes nothing interesting is happening, but damn.

This sums up the core occurrence of this board (and these sports internet forums in general) very well

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I get that it feels good to panic because its more interesting than just accepting sometimes nothing interesting is happening, but damn.

This sums up the core occurrence of this board (and these sports internet forums in general) very well

I used to get caught up in it, but the hyperbole is too much especially as I get older. Also notice that literally every teams fans have the same complaints, they all think the coaches have bad rotations and the front office hasn't done anything. Its kinda funny when you look around instead of hyper focusing on your team.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Spoiler:

We'll see. It has a ton of potential IMO but Ware needs to not be rushed for his impact to work.

I know Ware can't bump with strong big men right now. I know Ware doesn't have the footspeed to defend any position other than center. I know Bam is one of the best one-on-one defenders of every single position on the court in the world. I know Bam has the footspeed to defend on the perimeter.

Sabonis and Ware have all the same fit concerns offensively that Bam and Ware would have, except with the bonus of also being a wretched fit on defense rather than potentially an elite one.

The fact that Sabonis has made 10 more 3pters total on the season than Bam doesn't change that.

I'll pass on making Miami the Kings sans Fox.

While I agree with a lot of this, I don’t think we can keep harping on the “can defend 1-5” narrative. Bam can defend 1-4 at an elite level, especially for a big, but has trouble with size. So unless the opposing C is undersized or not an offensive threat, he will have trouble. Which is also the reason he keeps itching to switch at every chance he gets when forced to defend a big.

Defensively is where I’d love to see the Bam-Ware pairing even though seeing Ware stroke a few 3s looks enticing for the offensive potential.

Sorry but this is objectively false.

Bam defends the elite scoring bigs in the NBA as well or better than anyone else. Those freaks just win more than they lose against anyone in isolated instances.

I'd argue Bam is probably the best individual Jokic defender in the world.

Ware is basically toast whenever a stronger big man (which most are) gets position in the post--which he allows very easily. He will get better at it with (1) added muscle, (2) enhanced BBIQ, and (3) better technique. He will improve and it will be very beneficial for a Bam-Ware pairing as a force multiplier for the defense.

Nonetheless, even with Ware's current limitations, his length hanging around the basket provides other benefits.

He eliminated Embiid from a playoff series and we held the nuggets to the worst offensive series of the playoffs