Magic/Pacers/TWolves fine tuning

[8305]

Magic
Out: Black
In: Mathurin and Dillingham
Pacers
Out: Mathurin and Neismith
In : McDaniels
Twolves
Out: McDaniels and Dillingham
In: Black and Neismith
Magic
Move a redundant prospect, improve shooting with Mathurin now while getting a pure pg for the future in Dillingham. They get two pieces who better fit needs?
Pacers:
Get an elite defender that they need, while moving players that they have the depth to replace
Twolves
Get a, shooting and spacing upgrade Neismith v McDaniels. I value McDaniels elite defense over Neismith 3 and D and account for that with an upgrade prospect Black over Dillingham

[basketballwacko2]

I would not do Nesmith and Mathurin for McDaniels If I'm running the Pacers. That's too much to give up. He's on a 5 year contract at $23 million going up to more than $30 million. This puts the Pacers in the Tax this year by almost $5 million. That can't happen.

[nrbq]

Pacers laugh

[8305]

I would not do Nesmith and Mathurin for McDaniels If I'm running the Pacers. That's too much to give up. He's on a 5 year contract at $23 million going up to more than $30 million. This puts the Pacers in the Tax this year by almost $5 million. That can't happen.

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

[oldncreaky]

From a conceptual of what each team needs, I can see the merit of each team attempting to meet a need

However, the valuations are surprising to say the least. I doubt I'd take Black as equal to either Mathurin or Dillingham, let alone both of them. I also value what MIN is sending out over what they are taking in.

[basketballwacko2]

I would not do Nesmith and Mathurin for McDaniels If I'm running the Pacers. That's too much to give up. He's on a 5 year contract at $23 million going up to more than $30 million. This puts the Pacers in the Tax this year by almost $5 million. That can't happen.

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

If they go into the tax not only do they pay tax but they lose out on the rebate for being under the tax. This is a large amount of money. I don't see how the Indiana Pacers can be a tax paying team. Unless they are going to contend for the East finals spot it makes no sense economically.

[8305]

From a conceptual of what each team needs, I can see the merit of each team attempting to meet a need

However, the valuations are surprising to say the least. I doubt I'd take Black as equal to either Mathurin or Dillingham, let alone both of them. I also value what MIN is sending out over what they are taking in.

Seems we have different takes on Black. I think he could be a high level defender and he’s shown improvement as a shooter. Maybe I’m missing something but, he has shot it well when Pacers have played Magic. Add that he was a lead guard in college and that seems like a pretty high ceiling? As a Pacer fan I’d trade Mathurin for Black.

[Helsbyte]

From a conceptual of what each team needs, I can see the merit of each team attempting to meet a need

However, the valuations are surprising to say the least. I doubt I'd take Black as equal to either Mathurin or Dillingham, let alone both of them. I also value what MIN is sending out over what they are taking in.

Seems we have different takes on Black. I think he could be a high level defender and he’s shown improvement as a shooter. Maybe I’m missing something but, he has shot it well when Pacers have played Magic. Add that he was a lead guard in college and that seems like a pretty high ceiling? As a Pacer fan I’d trade Mathurin for Black.

As another Pacers fan I wouldn't trade Mathurin for Black straight up.

As for the original trade idea I don't have McDaniels worth Mathurin and Nesmith nor do I believe this is an upgrade or fills a need. Herb Jones or Deni should be the targets for Indy.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

Reggie’s retirement year. Not since then. I do wonder if Simon would pay it for a year as he’s soooo old, but also, as the tax distribution payments are so huge, staying under the tax could be a $25+m swing.



For Indy, financially, I think it’d have to be Nesmith/Obi. For those tax reasons, but also for long term salary sustainability. And I’d do that, but mostly because I think Nembhard and Sheppard are both so good, I think Jarace is ready to take over as the primary backup 3/4, and McDaniels’ size would be such a huge defensive improvement for the Pacers in terms of flexibility. If it takes a pick on top, I’d consider it.


And yes, I’d likely still consider Mathurin trades after this for a longer term sustainable salary.

[winforlose]

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

Reggie’s retirement year. Not since then. I do wonder if Simon would pay it for a year as he’s soooo old, but also, as the tax distribution payments are so huge, staying under the tax could be a $25+m swing.



For Indy, financially, I think it’d have to be Nesmith/Obi. For those tax reasons, but also for long term salary sustainability. And I’d do that, but mostly because I think Nembhard and Sheppard are both so good, I think Jarace is ready to take over as the primary backup 3/4, and McDaniels’ size would be such a huge defensive improvement for the Pacers in terms of flexibility. If it takes a pick on top, I’d consider it.


And yes, I’d likely still consider Mathurin trades after this for a longer term sustainable salary.

Why would the Wolves do that?

[Pacernation]

Why not go Mathurin + Nesmith for Herb Jones? Just a thought.

[Godaddycurse]

Why not go Mathurin + Nesmith for Herb Jones? Just a thought.

because pels wouldnt do it?

[BadWolf]

Haven't been playing attention tbh, is Black that good or are these other dudes just duds?

[cucad8]

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

Reggie’s retirement year. Not since then. I do wonder if Simon would pay it for a year as he’s soooo old, but also, as the tax distribution payments are so huge, staying under the tax could be a $25+m swing.



For Indy, financially, I think it’d have to be Nesmith/Obi. For those tax reasons, but also for long term salary sustainability. And I’d do that, but mostly because I think Nembhard and Sheppard are both so good, I think Jarace is ready to take over as the primary backup 3/4, and McDaniels’ size would be such a huge defensive improvement for the Pacers in terms of flexibility. If it takes a pick on top, I’d consider it.


And yes, I’d likely still consider Mathurin trades after this for a longer term sustainable salary.

Why would the Wolves do that?

Indy making that adjustment doesn't change anything for Minnesota from the OP. They'd still get Nesmith and Black for McDaniels and Dillingham.

[8305]

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

Reggie’s retirement year. Not since then. I do wonder if Simon would pay it for a year as he’s soooo old, but also, as the tax distribution payments are so huge, staying under the tax could be a $25+m swing.



For Indy, financially, I think it’d have to be Nesmith/Obi. For those tax reasons, but also for long term salary sustainability. And I’d do that, but mostly because I think Nembhard and Sheppard are both so good, I think Jarace is ready to take over as the primary backup 3/4, and McDaniels’ size would be such a huge defensive improvement for the Pacers in terms of flexibility. If it takes a pick on top, I’d consider it.


And yes, I’d likely still consider Mathurin trades after this for a longer term sustainable salary.

Why would the Wolves do that?

Yeah, I wouldn’t expect TWolves to go for that either. For Indiana you probably don’t solve the need for a significant defensive upgrade and eliminate salary all in one transaction.
I’d see it as step one get the elite defender. Step two move salary as needed.

[Helsbyte]

Why not go Mathurin + Nesmith for Herb Jones? Just a thought.

because pels wouldnt do it?

I don't think the Pelicans know what they are doing right now. There is too much talent on that team to be this bad. What are they going to do with Ingram? Zion? McCollum? What happens if they win the lottery? They already have too many forwards as is, all needing playing time.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m working off the idea that there is a limited number of elite defenders and McDaniels is one of them. While accumulated Nesmith and Mathurin might have more value, I’d argue McDaniels is the most valuable player in the trade. As for the tax, do the Pacers think they can contend without paying some tax? Didn’t Pacers pay tax a season or two back in the 00’s? I understand not paying the tax when the team is average but, team wouldn’t have signed on for Siakum if being average was the target.

Reggie’s retirement year. Not since then. I do wonder if Simon would pay it for a year as he’s soooo old, but also, as the tax distribution payments are so huge, staying under the tax could be a $25+m swing.



For Indy, financially, I think it’d have to be Nesmith/Obi. For those tax reasons, but also for long term salary sustainability. And I’d do that, but mostly because I think Nembhard and Sheppard are both so good, I think Jarace is ready to take over as the primary backup 3/4, and McDaniels’ size would be such a huge defensive improvement for the Pacers in terms of flexibility. If it takes a pick on top, I’d consider it.


And yes, I’d likely still consider Mathurin trades after this for a longer term sustainable salary.

Why would the Wolves do that?

Salary flexibility? Nesmith is pretty similar, but a pure 2/3, while McDaniels is more a 3/4 size. Obi would be flipped for expiring/2nds, so Minnesota would gain some solid tax flexibility?

[Scoot McGroot]

Reggie’s retirement year. Not since then. I do wonder if Simon would pay it for a year as he’s soooo old, but also, as the tax distribution payments are so huge, staying under the tax could be a $25+m swing.



For Indy, financially, I think it’d have to be Nesmith/Obi. For those tax reasons, but also for long term salary sustainability. And I’d do that, but mostly because I think Nembhard and Sheppard are both so good, I think Jarace is ready to take over as the primary backup 3/4, and McDaniels’ size would be such a huge defensive improvement for the Pacers in terms of flexibility. If it takes a pick on top, I’d consider it.


And yes, I’d likely still consider Mathurin trades after this for a longer term sustainable salary.

Why would the Wolves do that?

Yeah, I wouldn’t expect TWolves to go for that either. For Indiana you probably don’t solve the need for a significant defensive upgrade and eliminate salary all in one transaction.
I’d see it as step one get the elite defender. Step two move salary as needed.

This adds salary for Indy, though?

[cucad8]

Salary flexibility? Nesmith is pretty similar, but a pure 2/3, while McDaniels is more a 3/4 size. Obi would be flipped for expiring/2nds, so Minnesota would gain some solid tax flexibility?

But if it's tweaking the original deal, again, nothing changes for Minnesota. Obi would go to Orlando in place of Mathurin.

[Scoot McGroot]

Why not go Mathurin + Nesmith for Herb Jones? Just a thought.

because pels wouldnt do it?

I don't think the Pelicans know what they are doing right now. There is too much talent on that team to be this bad. What are they going to do with Ingram? Zion? McCollum? What happens if they win the lottery? They already have too many forwards as is, all needing playing time.

New Orleans just isn’t dealing Herb. That would be great for Indy, though.