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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1621 » by garrick » Mon Jan 6, 2025 1:14 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
garrick wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/nets/news/report-oklahoma-city-thunder-could-pursue-brooklyn-nets-wing-cam-johnson

Per HoopsHype’s Michael Scotto, some NBA executives believe that Cam Johnson could be on the move to the Oklahoma City Thunder. These recent “rumblings” started at the G League Winter Showcase in Orlando, where every NBA team was well-represented, but the noise about Johnson has existed since he arrived in Brooklyn.


Well look at that a contending team is coveting Cam Johnson.

Who wouldn't want a 3&D forward in his prime? :D


What killed us the most was our overtly exuberant delusionallly wreckless new owner being so desperate to make his mark on his new investment that we ultimately bid against ourselves in BOTH the KD trade and the Beal trade. The KD trade is at least somewhat arguable because of his percieved value at the time.

But the Beal trade was indefensible in that there were literally no other suitors or even interested parties pursuing him apart from us AND the writing was clearly on the wall with him, his contract being horrific, his salary issues, his very risky injury history and durability concerns. And that's not even mentioning the very obvious positional redundancy concerns too.

It was an example of gross overzealousness. But the bigger picture playing out in real time around the league is the culture trend that many of us here continually promoted towards going younger with more athleticism, size, energy, and hunger to prove their value. Our current aged stars have become apathetic to competitive greatness or even expected professionalism.

We have a legit chance to act quickly and reclaim most of what we wrecklessly gave up. But also the opportunity to also expedite our progress and begin catching up with the rest of the leagues' youth/ athleticism movement. But for us to actually heal and tet back on track, our owner must put aside the misplaced hubris and admit that this experiment is just not viable in this current NBA climate anymore. We must aggressively pivot before our very limited aging and depreciating assets further decrease in overall value.


Yes we won't ever recoup the lost assets we gave up for Mikail and Cam but you just have to cut your losses and hope to try to get some draft capital to rebuild for the future.

The Nets are laughing all the way to the bank the way they played us and amassed a boatload of picks once they offload Cam Jo to a contending team.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1622 » by King4Day » Mon Jan 6, 2025 1:33 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


I actually see this differently.
I think the Suns are throwing up the white flag that they won't be able to move Beal. And they wanted to 'showcase' him for as long as possible. Now that we know we aren't moving him, it's time to reconfigure.
Maybe this gives the team a jolt of energy or maybe they continue to not play like they recognize that they're playing a child's game for a living and making millions doing it.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1623 » by KdoubleDees23 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 2:35 pm

Beal to a 3rd team.

Wonder if Bulls will take Beal, Miami Lavine

Suns get Vucevic and Butler. Get rid of Nurkic, Beal, and I am in for future draft picks.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1624 » by schnakenpopanz » Mon Jan 6, 2025 2:37 pm

The irony is that Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson will end up in beter situations than Booker in the end.
Not to say that Bridges/CamJo are bigger stars/better players, but you have to use your assets well and NEVER trade for an aging star with an injury history. If you do so, you have to built a roster fitting these flaws. Nurkic never has been the answer. Suns are looking slow and uninterested. This was different 4 years ago
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1625 » by schnakenpopanz » Mon Jan 6, 2025 2:55 pm

Oh and to add to this. The suns are relevant in media because of KD. From a business decision the Trade might have been a success, from a sport related point of view, not so much.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1626 » by handsome salary » Mon Jan 6, 2025 3:11 pm

Suns are the laughingstock of the league once again during the Booker years but for different reasons this time.

Other GMs are just waiting to once again fleece Ishbia and Jones.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1627 » by Saberestar » Mon Jan 6, 2025 3:16 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1628 » by sunsbg » Mon Jan 6, 2025 3:37 pm

schnakenpopanz wrote:The irony is that Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson will end up in beter situations than Booker in the end.
Not to say that Bridges/CamJo are bigger stars/better players, but you have to use your assets well and NEVER trade for an aging star with an injury history. If you do so, you have to built a roster fitting these flaws. Nurkic never has been the answer. Suns are looking slow and uninterested. This was different 4 years ago


Suns almost won a title with CP3, but they didn't sacrifice the future trading for him. That's probably the biggest difference in addition to fit, leadership, etc.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1629 » by Benjammin » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:22 pm

I've liked the Suns since they played the Celtics in the championship in the 70s but as a Wizards fan I was so thankful to dump Beal. Now I wait to see if the pick swaps come to fruition and help the Wizards even more.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1630 » by Saberestar » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:28 pm

This trade is correct and money works. Teams would receive:

Heat: Tobias Harris + Tim Hardaway Jr + 2031 unprotected FRP

Suns: Jimmy Butler

Pistons: Bradley Beal + 3 2nds
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1631 » by They_Them_Hatin » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:28 pm

King4Day wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


I actually see this differently.
I think the Suns are throwing up the white flag that they won't be able to move Beal. And they wanted to 'showcase' him for as long as possible. Now that we know we aren't moving him, it's time to reconfigure.
Maybe this gives the team a jolt of energy or maybe they continue to not play like they recognize that they're playing a child's game for a living and making millions doing it.

Exactly! I’m confused on how this is to convince him to waive his NTC. If anything with his ego, he won’t. If anybody even wants him. I think this move means we’re stuck with Beal & Nurkic for this season and trying different things going forward. They aren’t going to continue to showcase them in the starting line. I truly hope there’s a trade lined up for a center because as much as Nurkic gets on my nerves Plumlee is way worse. At least start Bol Bol.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1632 » by They_Them_Hatin » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:34 pm

Saberestar wrote:This trade is correct and money works. Teams would receive:

Heat: Tobias Harris + Tim Hardaway Jr + 2031 unprotected FRP

Suns: Jimmy Butler

Pistons: Bradley Beal + 3 2nds

Why wouldn’t the Pistons get the 1st when they’re taking on Beal?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1633 » by Saberestar » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:37 pm

They_Them_Hatin wrote:
Saberestar wrote:This trade is correct and money works. Teams would receive:

Heat: Tobias Harris + Tim Hardaway Jr + 2031 unprotected FRP

Suns: Jimmy Butler

Pistons: Bradley Beal + 3 2nds

Why wouldn’t the Pistons get the 1st when they’re taking on Beal?

IMO Butler can get you one unprotected FRP yet from some team.

But it's just my opinion, probably the Pistons would get that FRP in that deal.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1634 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:48 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:

I don't know about contenders! We'd likely at best still be a play-in team with 1st-2nd round elimination potential. However, at least Butler wouldn't be carrying a "no trade clause" in any deal we'd offer him (HOPEFULLY)!!!! :o :banghead:


It's funny so many people mention the NTC as a big deal, as if without it he would suddenly have great trade value. I mean, yeah, it sucks if he shut down a deal. Personally I don't even think he'd shut down a deal with Miami if they wanted him and the Suns didn't. Why would you? But they don't want him.

I think the same goes for other older teams, like the LA teams, etc. But people are unlikely to want him.


It actually is a big deal in that we become severely limited as to the potential teams we could trade him to (even already not having greater even good trade value because Beal would have to actually approve a deal. So IF for example there was a team that was really struggling to be competitive and attract any big names but was willing to take Beal because of those conditions, They might be willing to take Beal in a trade, BUT Beal if h doesn't want to go there, we couldn't even do the deal.

So there could be some legitimate options for us to move him in a trade, but we can't even do those deals BECAUSE he again could just kill the trade regardless of a team's potential interest. This is currently why teams have stated they aren't willing to even trade for Beal. Because they'd be stuck with him just like we are now. all because apart from his trade value, the receiving team couldn't trade him or move off of him without him agreeing. In that context, and given his albatross salary in this 2nd apron restricted climate, that provision is only exacerbated making his contract the worst in the NBA. I'm not completely opposed to riding out his deal IF we were willing to trade BOTH Booker and KD towards a rebuild before their values only depreciate even further. But Beals' "NO TRADE CLAUSE" is legitimately a very big deal because he'll be able to dictate whether he's traded or not regardless of mutual interest. :dontknow:


In theory, if a lot of teams were interested in trading for him, it would be a big deal, but the fact remains, it's his contract, games played, etc, that is more of a hndrance. I can't see rebuilding teams wanting him or contenders, unless thy sent back a large bad contract.

For it to be a big deal, you'd first have to think of what teams would want him and what they would give up for him if he didn't have a NTC. Is there such a list?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1635 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:51 pm

Saberestar wrote:
They_Them_Hatin wrote:
Saberestar wrote:This trade is correct and money works. Teams would receive:

Heat: Tobias Harris + Tim Hardaway Jr + 2031 unprotected FRP

Suns: Jimmy Butler

Pistons: Bradley Beal + 3 2nds

Why wouldn’t the Pistons get the 1st when they’re taking on Beal?

IMO Butler can get you one unprotected FRP yet from some team.

But it's just my opinion, probably the Pistons would get that FRP in that deal.

Read on Twitter


I don't see why Detroit does that. Harris has been good for them and they are finally competitive. Beal is a very good player but their best two young players are guards in Cade and Ivey.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1636 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:55 pm

schnakenpopanz wrote:The irony is that Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson will end up in beter situations than Booker in the end.
Not to say that Bridges/CamJo are bigger stars/better players, but you have to use your assets well and NEVER trade for an aging star with an injury history. If you do so, you have to built a roster fitting these flaws. Nurkic never has been the answer. Suns are looking slow and uninterested. This was different 4 years ago


Booker was so conditioned to not have success that he needed to jettison Cam and Bridges to get back to where he was before, and Cam and Bridges could compete for championships while Book got to play with a player he idolized when he was young, even if the guy didn't care about winning but only moving up on the all time points list as his career winds down.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1637 » by matt131 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 4:57 pm

I have exactly ZERO things to say about the Suns.

However...

LET'S GO CHARGERS!!!!!! What a great regular season. Harbaugh is a beast. He and Ortiz flipped this franchise around and did so with very limited cap space. Nothing is a guaranteed, but if we can beat Houston and earn a shot to beat the Chiefs, this will be the most successful season in a LONG time. BTFU!!!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1638 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 5:10 pm

dremill24 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
dremill24 wrote:.


Question for you being the cap expert. If we did decide to trade Book or KD, for picks and prospects, how would the 2nd apron rules come into effect? It seems like we could definitely take back less, but I don't know if other teams can take back more. I guess they may have different rules, like the 125% rule or something? I imagine not a ton of teams have space to absorb extra salary, particularly the competitive ones that might trade for them.

I know this is all moot because Ishbia thinks we are contenders and that 28 teams would trade their rosters for ours, but just for **** and giggles, I'd like to know.


Its tough. It depends on who you're trading with. Yes, you can always take back less money than you send out. But its hard for teams to take back more to make that happen. 1st apron teams cant take back additional salary either (which I find excessive), so getting creative with another non-apron team and/or leveraging trade exceptions to get around it is helpful.

Teams like OKC, Orlando, Houston, Memphis, Cleveland, Dallas are some of the best teams that are below any apron. But even so, if you add salary in a trade, you're hard capped at that 1st apron and most of these teams arent THAT far below so theres a limit on how much extra they can take.

Teams already above one of the aprons are DEN, LAL, MIA, NY, PHI, BOS, MIN, MIL, PHX.

Teams below the aprons have a wider net on how much extra salary they can take on (changes depending on how much they're sending out) based on that rule but the hard cap limits it practically.

The simplest way to make math work in a lot of cases is to add another team who is well below the tax, but that obviously brings in complications of making it worthwhile for that team to participate.

The short answer unfortunately is it depends on who you're dealing with. Is there something more specific you are looking for?


No, that's what I was looking for. It just seems like to come up with potential deals, you'd have to really know a lot about where each team was in relation to the cap, which I imagine most people don't do when coming up with their proposed deals. So I don't know what really works and what doesn't.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1639 » by Showdown » Mon Jan 6, 2025 5:16 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter

This guy is a bum
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1640 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 6, 2025 5:17 pm

matt131 wrote:I have exactly ZERO things to say about the Suns.

However...

LET'S GO CHARGERS!!!!!! What a great regular season. Harbaugh is a beast. He and Ortiz flipped this franchise around and did so with very limited cap space. Nothing is a guaranteed, but if we can beat Houston and earn a shot to beat the Chiefs, this will be the most successful season in a LONG time. BTFU!!!


Yes, that is HUGE especially with the state of the Suns. It's been so long where you could really feel good about the Chargers, and they are young and rebuilding AND already competitive and are able to avoid Baltimore and Buffalo in the first round and play Houston..I also would prefer to play KC in the 2nd round than Baltimore or Buffalo.

Then hopefully they can draft Tyler Warren and a top WR and G or C in the draft.

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