Trades and Transactions Thread - Preseason and Beyond

[Deeeez Knicks]

Take tomorrow off

Like take a day off and get Leon to take those trades

We traded Grimes and 2 second round picks for Burks last year, you now want to trade another second rd pick and our most recent 1st round pick for Burks yet again? Take today off.

And Thibs benched him anyway

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — It was the shortest appearance of Alec Burks’ season, the shortest in more than five years for the guard.

Following two missed consecutive missed shots and a turnover early in the second quarter, the veteran guard was yanked after just 4:18 of Thursday’s win over the Trail Blazers.

He sat the entire second half — watching Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart and Miles McBride serve as the backcourt rotation.

Burks’ benching wasn’t about an injury, Tom Thibodeau confirmed.

“Just basketball,” the coach added, “basketball.”

The move wasn’t a surprise.

Though Burks was supposed to provide offensive spark for a playoff push and beyond, the 32-year-old has been woefully inefficient since being acquired from the Pistons last month.

He’s shooting 31 percent overall and 28 percent from beyond the arc, by far the lowest of his career if extrapolated for a season.

Moreover, he’s exhibiting the same black-hole tendencies with the ball that were apparent, albeit not as pronounced, during his previous stint in New York two seasons ago.

Through 14 games this season, Burks is averaging more turnovers than assists — a red flag for ballhandlers

The isolation style and tunnel vision has become counterproductive at his efficiency.

But that hasn’t stopped Burks from trying to create for himself.

His usage rate is third on the Knicks, behind only Brunson and Julius Randle.

His dribbles per touch is also third on the Knicks, behind only Brunson and McBride.

Not surprisingly, Burks’ net rating, the stat Thibodeau has called the most helpful, is minus-18.8, the worst on the team.

[Jalen Bluntson]

All of this trade talk is cute. The conversation should be forcing Thibs to play the guys we have!!!! He is the problem. Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious should all be seeing regular minutes off the bench. at LEAST 15 mpg. It is completely inexcusable the way Thibs runs this team. He needs to shape up or ship out.

[Jalen Bluntson]

There’s zero reason why Thibs can’t play Cam, Shamet, and Precious 13 mpg consistently every night. They’ve all done more than that on playoff teams. Sims can get at least 5 mpg too because Jalen does well with him as a screener and we need to up his trade value anyway. He had some good games this year too.

That isn’t gunna lose us games. If they’re put in proper lineups, you’re not asking much from them. Cam n Shamet are very efficient shooters that can play serviceable defense, and that’s all we’re really asking of them.

Simply doing that and keeping Deuce at an optimal 25 mpg, would keep Jalen, Mikal, and Towns @ 35 mpg and Hart n OG @ 33 mpg. This 40-44 mpg is not only dangerous and unsustainable, but just stupid when you have title aspirations. It’s getting out of control with all our starters in the top of the league in mpg.

Brunson (35) | Payne (13)
Mikal (23) | Deuce (25)
Hart (23) | Mikal (12) | Shamet (13)
OG (33) | Hart (10) | Precious (5)
Towns (35) | Precious (8) | Sims (5)


Lineups like:

Jalen, Deuce, Hart, OG, Sims
Cam, Deuce, Mikal, Precious, Towns
Jalen, Shamet, Mikal, Hart, Precious

At any point during 13 out of 48 minutes isn’t gunna lose us a game. Thibs is just not a great minutes manager or minutes fuks giver. He just reverts back to starters when things go wrong not knowing that there in lies the problem because they’re gassed and playing on dead legs down the stretch.

It's not hard to see what the problem is. We have guys who can play just sitting on the bench getting splinters. Thibs leaving starters in in blow outs has resulted in injuries. Doing so on the second night of a back to back where you ran your starters 40+ is pure irresponsible insanity. IDGAF what anyone says, Thibs has to cut he BS or he has to go. I am done giving him benefits of doubt and waiting for Mitch etc. He clearly is never gonna change. The FO needs to address the problem!!

If it's me, i am not putting Hart at the 4 at all. OG 30/Precious/18. KAT 36/Sims 12. All 12 Sims minutes with OG, all 18 precious minutes with KAT. Could even get cute and have Sims run with KAT and Precious with OG for jumbo vs speed packages.

I don't care how it plays out. Just play the bench consistently and stop the BS. Thibs raved about Sims earlier this season and has not played him in weeks. After STARTING him!! He raved about Payne/Deuce/Shamet all preseason. He barely plays two of three at all since Shamet returned. Precious has been playing well. His minutes get cut. ALL THREE rookies showed flashes when they have played. They barely play either. 7-8 man rotations no matter who is healthy. Running the starters into the ground from day one. Now we have injuries up and down the roster again. Hamstring and calves being strained and lord only knows what he did to KAT last game! OG banged up as well.

It's the HC that is the problem. Not the talent on the bench. He needs to cut the BS or cut him his severance pay and move on!

[Deeeez Knicks]

All of this trade talk is cute. The conversation should be forcing Thibs to play the guys we have!!!! He is the problem. Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious should all be seeing regular minutes off the bench. at LEAST 15 mpg. It is completely inexcusable the way Thibs runs this team. He needs to shape up or ship out.

The bench is 7th in the league in net rating (+2.2) and plus/minus (+1.2) so it hasn’t even been performing that bad overall.

But of course last in mpg. It is the least used bench in at least 20 years. Maybe one of the least used bench in modern nba history. It’s just crazy this early in the season to do that. Thibs is a maniac

[Jalen Bluntson]

All of this trade talk is cute. The conversation should be forcing Thibs to play the guys we have!!!! He is the problem. Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious should all be seeing regular minutes off the bench. at LEAST 15 mpg. It is completely inexcusable the way Thibs runs this team. He needs to shape up or ship out.

The bench is 7th in the league in net rating (+2.2) and plus/minus (+1.2) so it hasn’t even been performing that bad overall.

But of course last in mpg. It is the least used bench in at least 20 years. Maybe one of the least used bench in modern nba history. It’s just crazy this early in the season to do that. Thibs is a maniac

I have been saying it since the beginning of the season, and the last couple of years! Many of us have been saying it. Now it's almost passed the point of no return! He's gonna break these guys!! Seeing KAT get hurt last game has erased all benefits of doubt with Thibs. He needs to cut the BS. How many of the top teams do what he does? I'll go out on a limb and say NONE. He is an ass hole.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Our bench actually has the 7th best net rating in the league

Weird basketball reference and nba.com
Have different net ratings for our bench players.

On basketball reference, Deuce has a 4 net rating, Payne has a 7, precious has 3, and our boy sims has 15!

NBA.com sims is 6.4, Payne 6.9, precious 5.2, and deuce has a 10.

Deuces numbers def backs the eye test for me. When Mikal was awful we played dramatically better with deuce on the floor. Really surprised about Payne and precious though. They’ve been a lot more erratic and inconsistent. Precious in particularly. Payne def has had some big moments and not completely surprised he’s a positive on the court but it’s only been a couple plays for precious. Thought he could handle being the starter before we made the Kat trade but he’s been more bad than good. I guess I must be wrong.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Our bench actually has the 7th best net rating in the league

Weird basketball reference and nba.com
Have different net ratings for our bench players.

On basketball reference, Deuce has a 4 net rating, Payne has a 7, precious has 3, and our boy sims has 15!

NBA.com sims is 6.4, Payne 6.9, precious 5.2, and deuce has a 10.

Deuces numbers def backs the eye test for me. When Mikal was awful we played dramatically better with deuce on the floor. Really surprised about Payne and precious though. They’ve been a lot more erratic and inconsistent. Precious in particularly. Payne def has had some big moments and not completely surprised he’s a positive on the court but it’s only been a couple plays for precious. Thought he could handle being the starter before we made the Kat trade but he’s been more bad than good. I guess I must be wrong.

It's all hogwash. You can't play guys an erratic 7-12 mpg and expect any consistency in production. Playing starters entire halves of games isn't helping the bench at all. Stats/ratings will be all over the place.

Thibs needs to shove his drop coverage defense without Mitch and, his 7 man rotations up his ass so he can ride the fuq out of here on them! It would be to the benefit of every players career on this team.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Our bench actually has the 7th best net rating in the league

Weird basketball reference and nba.com
Have different net ratings for our bench players.

On basketball reference, Deuce has a 4 net rating, Payne has a 7, precious has 3, and our boy sims has 15!

NBA.com sims is 6.4, Payne 6.9, precious 5.2, and deuce has a 10.

Deuces numbers def backs the eye test for me. When Mikal was awful we played dramatically better with deuce on the floor. Really surprised about Payne and precious though. They’ve been a lot more erratic and inconsistent. Precious in particularly. Payne def has had some big moments and not completely surprised he’s a positive on the court but it’s only been a couple plays for precious. Thought he could handle being the starter before we made the Kat trade but he’s been more bad than good. I guess I must be wrong.

I think the NBA.com ratings are more accurate. basketball reference uses a weird formula. On nba.com you can filter team ratings by bench and starters so i used that.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?StarterBench=Bench&sort=NET_RATING

Overall, Deuce is a good bench player. The other guys are serviceable. They are good enough to get nba minutes. For the Knicks, our bench just needs to hold the fort, which they have mostly done. Even the last 2 games it was more of the starters that lost us the game....but yea issue is they look gassed and we need fresh legs out there.

[nykballa2k4]

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

We need a firepower off the bench... that's what Burks. We know he is a good defender and the most important trait... Thibs is willing to play him 20+ mins.

My trade idea also adds Mitch, Precious and 2nd rounder for Jonas and Saddiq Bey.

Bey is a 6'7 SF that can also get buckets. Jonas is a dependable backup center that also has a range beyond the arc. Oh, his legs aren't made of dorito chips.

Burks had some nice moments in the playoffs, but was pretty bad in the regular season last year for us. Thibs benched him he was so bad so not sure if he would get a lot of minutes. Possibly an upgrade over Shamet, but I am not sure.

Bey is still recovering from ACL surgery….he would be a good pickup if healthy but not sure when he will come back? Might be months away.

We need to be trading FOR height/size, not trading away height/size. Our team's edge comes from being physical and tenacious. KAT isn't those things really, so we have to put that all around him. Hard to be the tough/physical team when your enforcers are 6'4".

Jonas is fine, but to me not at the expense of Mitch.
Perfect world we have
Mitch/Jonas
KAT/
OG/Hart
Bridges/McBride
Brunson

maybe some Shamet or TyKo tossed in.
Salaries just don't allow that.

[nykballa2k4]

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

We need a firepower off the bench... that's what Burks. We know he is a good defender and the most important trait... Thibs is willing to play him 20+ mins.

My trade idea also adds Mitch, Precious and 2nd rounder for Jonas and Saddiq Bey.

Bey is a 6'7 SF that can also get buckets. Jonas is a dependable backup center that also has a range beyond the arc. Oh, his legs aren't made of dorito chips.

We don't really need firepower off the bench. We have a team full of guys who are looking for their buckets. Cam and Deuce both look for their shots and that's 2/3 of who we use off the bench.
One of the ideas was putting the guy we traded 5 FRP for on the bench RJ style to let him run more of the offense. I think there are better ways to do that - obviously with the rotation. Gotta get stops, easy baskets, and dominate the glass.

[nykballa2k4]

Our bench actually has the 7th best net rating in the league

I mean, that makes sense. Deuce is really good.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We need a real backup PG....STILL. It's going on year three and we never had a reliable backup PG for Brunson. Payne is not terrible but, Thibs doesn't seem to care. Would love an upgrade that Thibs would actually play.

The wing situation is another issue. Thibs thinks 40+ a night for oft injured OG is a good idea. Trying to break Mikal's iron man streak seems to be an agenda too. Undersized Hart at the 4? Really? Precious can play those minutes!

KAT 40mpg in B2Bs is another joke. We have to wait until Mitch is healthy? Really? Precious and Sims could play those minutes!!

Can we just trade the HC and play the roster we have to it's fullest?

[nykballa2k4]

We need a real backup PG....STILL. It's going on year three and we never had a reliable backup PG for Brunson. Payne is not terrible but, Thibs doesn't seem to care. Would love an upgrade that Thibs would actually play.

The wing situation is another issue. Thibs thinks 40+ a night for oft injured OG is a good idea. Trying to break Mikal's iron man streak seems to be an agenda too. Undersized Hart at the 4? Really? Precious can play those minutes!

KAT 40mpg in B2Bs is another joke. We have to wait until Mitch is healthy? Really? Precious and Sims could play those minutes!!

Can we just trade the HC and play the roster we have to it's fullest?

Sarcasm?
Back-up point and 2 guards are the positions we have covered.

Agree that we need to use the bench.

Heat won a title with the slogan that all 15 guys on the roster matter. Thibs is D'Antoni like with his circle of trust.

You can't play guys for drips and drabs and expect success. He never played so I guess he doesn't understand being in a rhythm and all that. Not a video game.

[WaltFrazier]

All of this trade talk is cute. The conversation should be forcing Thibs to play the guys we have!!!! He is the problem. Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious should all be seeing regular minutes off the bench. at LEAST 15 mpg. It is completely inexcusable the way Thibs runs this team. He needs to shape up or ship out.

It looks clear in the last 2 losses that the starters wear down in the 4th. But even in the winning streak there were several games where he didn't clear the bench till 2 minutes or less, when he easily could have done it at 5 minutes. He needs to work bench guys into the rotation throughout games, get starters under 40 minutes, but there's no indication he'll ever change. He only uses bench guys out of necessity after injuries force starters out.

I watched the Cavs pregame yesterday, they were saying how Atkinson committed to using his depth in training camp and they have a productive bench now

[Jalen Bluntson]

We need a real backup PG....STILL. It's going on year three and we never had a reliable backup PG for Brunson. Payne is not terrible but, Thibs doesn't seem to care. Would love an upgrade that Thibs would actually play.

The wing situation is another issue. Thibs thinks 40+ a night for oft injured OG is a good idea. Trying to break Mikal's iron man streak seems to be an agenda too. Undersized Hart at the 4? Really? Precious can play those minutes!

KAT 40mpg in B2Bs is another joke. We have to wait until Mitch is healthy? Really? Precious and Sims could play those minutes!!

Can we just trade the HC and play the roster we have to it's fullest?

Sarcasm?
Back-up point and 2 guards are the positions we have covered.

Agree that we need to use the bench.

Heat won a title with the slogan that all 15 guys on the roster matter. Thibs is D'Antoni like with his circle of trust.

You can't play guys for drips and drabs and expect success. He never played so I guess he doesn't understand being in a rhythm and all that. Not a video game.

Sarcasm mixed with aggravation. Payne getting 6-7 mpg isn't a backup PG. Deuce is not a PG and now he is out. Kolek is but, yeah. Brunson playing excessive minutes on a bum leg is NOT helping us win games in the long term. It's risking further injury!

OG NOTORIOUSLY missed games every year. Let's play him 40mpg and test that theory out? Good job ass hole!

KAT playing 40 on a back to back blow out? Really?

Thibs rotation sucks. I don't care about his regular season success when it comes at the detriment of the playoffs. Which it has every single year. If we repeat last year's injury woes they better fire the HC. PERIOD.

[Jalen Bluntson]

All of this trade talk is cute. The conversation should be forcing Thibs to play the guys we have!!!! He is the problem. Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious should all be seeing regular minutes off the bench. at LEAST 15 mpg. It is completely inexcusable the way Thibs runs this team. He needs to shape up or ship out.

It looks clear in the last 2 losses that the starters wear down in the 4th. But even in the winning streak there were several games where he didn't clear the bench till 2 minutes or less, when he easily could have done it at 5 minutes. He needs to work bench guys into the rotation throughout games, get starters under 40 minutes, but there's no indication he'll ever change. He only uses bench guys out of necessity after injuries force starters out.

I watched the Cavs pregame yesterday, they were saying how Atkinson committed to using his depth in training camp and they have a productive bench now

We are the worst 4th qtr team in the league. It's not hard to figure out why. Thibs is the problem. When announcers are discussing it, there's a problem. We have a legit 9 man rotation right now. We play 7-8 if we are lucky. Suddenly, JB/OG/KAT/Deuce are banged up. It's barely January! Fuq Thibs!

[Spree2Houston]

I also blame the FO for not utilizing the 24th and 25th picks properly. We could’ve easily drafted 2 bench contributors. Instead we punted the 1st pick and took a 19 year old Dadiet with the other. I understand the strategy with Dadiet but it made no sense to punt the 24th pick. A good bench player could’ve been taken there.

We’ve punted a lot of picks over the years and passed up on good talent in the process.

[nykballa2k4]

I also blame the FO for not utilizing the 24th and 25th picks properly. We could’ve easily drafted 2 bench contributors. Instead we punted the 1st pick and took a 19 year old Dadiet with the other. I understand the strategy with Dadiet but it made no sense to punt the 24th pick. A good bench player could’ve been taken there.

We’ve punted a lot of picks over the years and passed up on good talent in the process.

Who would we have taken at those picks? Also would have prevented us from making moves during the offseason (we needed to shave pennies to avoid 2nd apron).

The problem is that Thibs doesn't get that sometimes you have to be willing to take the step back to take the step up. Teams like the Heat do well for longer because they build players, then they move on to become someone elses bad contract while they already have a next man up. Highsmith was a nobody on their roster 3 years ago, but in a big spot rather than over-play starters, they put him in.

Boston is making use of Luke friggen Kornet. You think Thibs would ever let him off the bench here? He can't really defend, nor rebound, so probably not. But Celtics have found a way to make him useful and it helps the over all rotation. We have our g-league kids dropping 30 regularly, but nothing in the pros.
Gotta allow them to play in real games through mistakes.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The Dadiet pick was weird, I like him but considering the coach and how young Dadiet is what did the front office think the likely outcome of that would be?

This team needs another wing, it's painfully obvious, Mitch will do nothing to help the minutes load that Hart, Mikal and OG are dealing with. They either need to consolidate Mitch into a trade where they get back a guard/C, or start playing Pacome, one of the wings is going to get hurt with the minutes they play, you can bet on it at this point.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The Dadiet pick was weird, I like him but considering the coach and how young Dadiet is what did the front office think the likely outcome of that would be?

This team needs another wing, it's painfully obvious, Mitch will do nothing to help the minutes load that Hart, Mikal and OG are dealing with. They either need to consolidate Mitch into a trade where they get back a guard/C, or start playing Pacome, one of the wings is going to get hurt with the minutes they play, you can bet on it at this point.

At this point there's no need for draft picks. We have our top 6 guys and no way a rookie is ever gonna play for this maniac. We can't even get vets proper minutes with Thibs. It's ridiculous.