2024-25 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[RRR3]

Ware's stats looking really promising in limited time, Spo needs to start playing him more.

[BAMAFREAK]

Jaylen Wells is so good

[jasonxxx102]

Is this the worst rookie class we have ever seen or are guys just being held back or 2 years from being 2 years away?


Are there any clear stars in the making. Sorry I haven't followed this season as closely as I should.

if you ask the "experts" and the casuals that get their opinions from them, then yes. Worst since 2000 I've heard people say. Of course, it isn't. But it's going to take a few years for minutes to open up for many of them as they were either drafted by teams trying to compete that have vets ahead of them being paid big salaries or to bad teams that already had young prospects ahead of them, they're still trying to gauge. There's a couple of guys that could end up being stars but this class doesn't have the blue-chip prospects at the top like Flagg or Wembanyama. Sadly, for many, this means it's a weak class which is laughable. My guess is there might be a few all-stars, maybe 1 or 2 of them being multi-all stars but a whole lot of productive starters so at the end of the day it won't be anywhere near "wEaKeSt dRafT eVeR!"

Name the drafts that started off worse then.

You’ve been asked multiple times and are yet to give an answer

[jasonxxx102]

Interesting the lengths to which some people here go to express virulent criticism towards a rookie playing rotation minutes on a winning team and scoring high on impact metrics. Especially in a weak draft class.

It just sounds desperate, obsessive and deluded. A bit pathetic frankly, but I guess we all need someone to hate on. Some choose productive rookies and that's their issue I guess.

This is so funny because it’s the type of thing fence sitters say. You are scared to have an opinion so you just call people who do, haters.

I got the exact same comments when I told everyone about how poor of a player Jalen Green was meanwhile half the board was calling him a bonafide star.

Here’s the thing, I have eyes. All you need are functioning eyes and a brain to see that Edey isn’t an impact NBA player. But I’m a hater because I’m saying he’s a bench big man and not Yao

It’s fine because in 3 years I will be right. Just like I was right about Jalen Green, and Kevin Knox, and James Wiseman, and I could keep going with players that are hyped for no reason by people who look at box scores

So I’ll be the “hater” until eventually it just becomes reality and everyone moves on

[Chanel Bomber]

Interesting the lengths to which some people here go to express virulent criticism towards a rookie playing rotation minutes on a winning team and scoring high on impact metrics. Especially in a weak draft class.

It just sounds desperate, obsessive and deluded. A bit pathetic frankly, but I guess we all need someone to hate on. Some choose productive rookies and that's their issue I guess.

This is so funny because it’s the type of thing fence sitters say. You are scared to have an opinion so you just call people who do, haters.

I got the exact same comments when I told everyone about how poor of a player Jalen Green was meanwhile half the board was calling him a bonafide star.

Here’s the thing, I have eyes. All you need are functioning eyes and a brain to see that Edey isn’t an impact NBA player. But I’m a hater because I’m saying he’s a bench big man and not Yao

It’s fine because in 3 years I will be right. Just like I was right about Jalen Green, and Kevin Knox, and James Wiseman, and I could keep going with players that are hyped for no reason by people who look at box scores

So I’ll be the “hater” until eventually it just becomes reality and everyone moves on

Why exactly would be anybody be obligated to make any predictions about Zach Edey's career prospects? I don't care about Edey enough to concern myself with where his career is going.

It's just apparent reading this thread (and your sig) that you are invested in him failing, or in your prediction that he will fail, when he's not even a season into his NBA career. Actually, if anything, the evidence so far would tend to disprove your point, as Edey has a positive EPM, a positive on/off per 100 possessions, with the second highest net rating on a Grizzlies team with a 23-12 record. The data strongly suggests he's having a positive impact on winning in his role, which is commendable for any rookie.

Seems like you have an impressive resume as a talent evaluator, however. NBA teams do scout forums on the internet so it's plausible one of them will get in touch with you soon.

[BAMAFREAK]

Wells with 30 5 2 last night. Solid starter on a championship contender and no mention because he’s in Memphis

[rate_]

Wells with 30 5 2 last night. Solid starter on a championship contender and no mention because he’s in Memphis

Edey gets mentioned alot.

[jasonxxx102]

Interesting the lengths to which some people here go to express virulent criticism towards a rookie playing rotation minutes on a winning team and scoring high on impact metrics. Especially in a weak draft class.

It just sounds desperate, obsessive and deluded. A bit pathetic frankly, but I guess we all need someone to hate on. Some choose productive rookies and that's their issue I guess.

This is so funny because it’s the type of thing fence sitters say. You are scared to have an opinion so you just call people who do, haters.

I got the exact same comments when I told everyone about how poor of a player Jalen Green was meanwhile half the board was calling him a bonafide star.

Here’s the thing, I have eyes. All you need are functioning eyes and a brain to see that Edey isn’t an impact NBA player. But I’m a hater because I’m saying he’s a bench big man and not Yao

It’s fine because in 3 years I will be right. Just like I was right about Jalen Green, and Kevin Knox, and James Wiseman, and I could keep going with players that are hyped for no reason by people who look at box scores

So I’ll be the “hater” until eventually it just becomes reality and everyone moves on

Why exactly would be anybody be obligated to make any predictions about Zach Edey's career prospects? I don't care about Edey enough to concern myself with where his career is going.

It's just apparent reading this thread (and your sig) that you are invested in him failing, or in your prediction that he will fail, when he's not even a season into his NBA career. Actually, if anything, the evidence so far would tend to disprove your point, as Edey has a positive EPM, a positive on/off per 100 possessions, with the second highest net rating on a Grizzlies team with a 23-12 record. The data strongly suggests he's having a positive impact on winning in his role, which is commendable for any rookie.

Seems like you have an impressive resume as a talent evaluator, however. NBA teams do scout forums on the internet so it's plausible one of them will get in touch with you soon.

Citing EPM and on/off splits for a guy who’s played less than 1000 possessions just proves that you are just talking to talk.

I also always laugh when people pull out the “you’re not an NBA scout so you don’t know what you’re talking about” card. It’s just another ad hominem used when you have no other substantive argument.

Btw NBA scout isn’t some magical profession that requires some elite skill you can only have if you’re in the club. Turns out you can just watch games and it’s not hard to figure out what skills and archetypes fit in the league and fit in winning basketball, and which don’t.

I am good at evaluating NBA talent, the only difference between me and some professional scout is access to information. The information that’s publicly available for free or through subscription is good enough.

I’ll leave you with this. Just go watch the first 2 minutes of last nights game and tell me how Edey looks. Dude gets 3, 3s splashed in his face because he’s too slow to get back and playing drop 8ft away from the screener

[Chanel Bomber]

This is so funny because it’s the type of thing fence sitters say. You are scared to have an opinion so you just call people who do, haters.

I got the exact same comments when I told everyone about how poor of a player Jalen Green was meanwhile half the board was calling him a bonafide star.

Here’s the thing, I have eyes. All you need are functioning eyes and a brain to see that Edey isn’t an impact NBA player. But I’m a hater because I’m saying he’s a bench big man and not Yao

It’s fine because in 3 years I will be right. Just like I was right about Jalen Green, and Kevin Knox, and James Wiseman, and I could keep going with players that are hyped for no reason by people who look at box scores

So I’ll be the “hater” until eventually it just becomes reality and everyone moves on

Why exactly would be anybody be obligated to make any predictions about Zach Edey's career prospects? I don't care about Edey enough to concern myself with where his career is going.

It's just apparent reading this thread (and your sig) that you are invested in him failing, or in your prediction that he will fail, when he's not even a season into his NBA career. Actually, if anything, the evidence so far would tend to disprove your point, as Edey has a positive EPM, a positive on/off per 100 possessions, with the second highest net rating on a Grizzlies team with a 23-12 record. The data strongly suggests he's having a positive impact on winning in his role, which is commendable for any rookie.

Seems like you have an impressive resume as a talent evaluator, however. NBA teams do scout forums on the internet so it's plausible one of them will get in touch with you soon.

Citing EPM and on/off splits for a guy who’s played less than 1000 possessions just proves that you are just talking to talk.

I also always laugh when people pull out the “you’re not an NBA scout so you don’t know what you’re talking about” card. It’s just another ad hominem used when you have no other substantive argument.

Btw NBA scout isn’t some magical profession that requires some elite skill you can only have if you’re in the club. Turns out you can just watch games and it’s not hard to figure out what skills and archetypes fit in the league and fit in winning basketball, and which don’t.

I am good at evaluating NBA talent, the only difference between me and some professional scout is access to information. The information that’s publicly available for free or through subscription is good enough.

I’ll leave you with this. Just go watch the first 2 minutes of last nights game and tell me how Edey looks. Dude gets 3, 3s splashed in his face because he’s too slow to get back and playing drop 8ft away from the screener

I didn't mean to proclaim you are or aren't a scout as being meaningful to the validity of your claims. I certainly don't care. But you're parading about your supposedly unblemished resume as justification for essentially trashing a player who isn't even halfway through his rookie season, while completely dismissing the available data that is proving to be inconvenient for your narrative.

You said he wasn't an impact center using the present tense. I pointed out that the data suggests otherwise, which does in fact substantiate my counterargument. If the sample is too limited to capture his impact in the present, wouldn't it be too limited for your conclusions? Or is the sample size only too small when it supports Edey's play?

Listen, even your sig is about Edey so I think it's pretty obvious you're invested in his failure. I'm sure everybody will serenade you if and when it turns out Edey isn't a starting center in the NBA a few years down the line. But if he keeps starting and having a positive impact on winning, I have 0 doubt you'll admit to having been - perhaps, just perhaps - overly adamant about his impending demise.

[rate_]

[jasonxxx102]

Why exactly would be anybody be obligated to make any predictions about Zach Edey's career prospects? I don't care about Edey enough to concern myself with where his career is going.

It's just apparent reading this thread (and your sig) that you are invested in him failing, or in your prediction that he will fail, when he's not even a season into his NBA career. Actually, if anything, the evidence so far would tend to disprove your point, as Edey has a positive EPM, a positive on/off per 100 possessions, with the second highest net rating on a Grizzlies team with a 23-12 record. The data strongly suggests he's having a positive impact on winning in his role, which is commendable for any rookie.

Seems like you have an impressive resume as a talent evaluator, however. NBA teams do scout forums on the internet so it's plausible one of them will get in touch with you soon.

Citing EPM and on/off splits for a guy who’s played less than 1000 possessions just proves that you are just talking to talk.

I also always laugh when people pull out the “you’re not an NBA scout so you don’t know what you’re talking about” card. It’s just another ad hominem used when you have no other substantive argument.

Btw NBA scout isn’t some magical profession that requires some elite skill you can only have if you’re in the club. Turns out you can just watch games and it’s not hard to figure out what skills and archetypes fit in the league and fit in winning basketball, and which don’t.

I am good at evaluating NBA talent, the only difference between me and some professional scout is access to information. The information that’s publicly available for free or through subscription is good enough.

I’ll leave you with this. Just go watch the first 2 minutes of last nights game and tell me how Edey looks. Dude gets 3, 3s splashed in his face because he’s too slow to get back and playing drop 8ft away from the screener

I didn't mean to proclaim you are or aren't a scout as being meaningful to the validity of your claims. I certainly don't care. But you're parading about your supposedly unblemished resume as justification for essentially trashing a player who isn't even halfway through his rookie season, while completely dismissing the available data that is proving to be inconvenient for your narrative.

You said he wasn't an impact center using the present tense. I pointed out that the data suggests otherwise, which does in fact substantiate my counterargument. If the sample is too limited to capture his impact in the present, wouldn't it be too limited for your conclusions? Or is the sample size only too small when it supports Edey's play?

Listen, even your sig is about Edey so I think it's pretty obvious you're invested in his failure. I'm sure everybody will serenade you if and when it turns out Edey isn't a starting center in the NBA a few years down the line. But if he keeps starting and having a positive impact on winning, I have 0 doubt you'll admit to having been - perhaps, just perhaps - overly adamant about his impending demise.

Oh another classic “I don’t care but I’ll keep responding anyways” sure bud

You citing EPM as proof that he’s good just means you don’t understand EPM and what it’s used for. I can find all kinds of low minute players who have positive EPM that aren’t any good and random anomalies.

Zack Edey and Jaylen Brown have the same EPM at 1.3, and Luke Kornet comes in right behind at 1.2. Since you understand the stat so well and how it applies to Edeys game can you explain how he impacts the game at the same level as Brown?

Here is a list of his limitations, entirely based on actually watching him play and not regurgitating some advanced stats

1) The biggest reason why Edey is matchup dependent at best, is that he cannot guard in space. He can’t stay in front of guards or forwards because his hip rotation is very slow. Just watch him try to change direction on a cross over. If you watch the grizzlies they have him in one of the deepest drops I’ve ever seen. Go rewatch the warriors and he’s standing at the elbow while TJD is setting screens 2 feet behind the 3pt line.

He’s not even a great shot blocker for someone his size.

This will be exploited so badly in the playoffs he becomes unplayable in more than short stretches.

This part of his game can’t be fixed. He’s too big and too slow to not be exploited defensively in the modern NBA. Pull him out of the paint and the defense is scrambling

2) nobody will respect Edey shooting. He has no catch and shoot ability, no pull up ability, no mid range ability. People look at the box and say he’s shooting 40 whatever percent from 3, on no volume and other teams don’t even send someone out to contest his shots. Let him take 3s all day nobody is gonna care, don’t need to worry about hard close outs because he can’t put the ball on the floor

3) he’s shown little to no playmaking ability, he will hit a random nice bounce pass here and there but otherwise has limited passing upside. There’s no post playmaking, it’s a pass in and if he doesn’t immediately beat his man it’s just a pass right back out. There’s no cross court vision, he’s not throwing the ball ahead on fast breaks, partly because he has no ability to handle the ball and he turns the ball over a lot for someone who’s not a high usage player

If you want to refute any of these points with film, we can have a discussion

[7seventynine9]

Citing EPM and on/off splits for a guy who’s played less than 1000 possessions just proves that you are just talking to talk.

I also always laugh when people pull out the “you’re not an NBA scout so you don’t know what you’re talking about” card. It’s just another ad hominem used when you have no other substantive argument.

Btw NBA scout isn’t some magical profession that requires some elite skill you can only have if you’re in the club. Turns out you can just watch games and it’s not hard to figure out what skills and archetypes fit in the league and fit in winning basketball, and which don’t.

I am good at evaluating NBA talent, the only difference between me and some professional scout is access to information. The information that’s publicly available for free or through subscription is good enough.

I’ll leave you with this. Just go watch the first 2 minutes of last nights game and tell me how Edey looks. Dude gets 3, 3s splashed in his face because he’s too slow to get back and playing drop 8ft away from the screener

I didn't mean to proclaim you are or aren't a scout as being meaningful to the validity of your claims. I certainly don't care. But you're parading about your supposedly unblemished resume as justification for essentially trashing a player who isn't even halfway through his rookie season, while completely dismissing the available data that is proving to be inconvenient for your narrative.

You said he wasn't an impact center using the present tense. I pointed out that the data suggests otherwise, which does in fact substantiate my counterargument. If the sample is too limited to capture his impact in the present, wouldn't it be too limited for your conclusions? Or is the sample size only too small when it supports Edey's play?

Listen, even your sig is about Edey so I think it's pretty obvious you're invested in his failure. I'm sure everybody will serenade you if and when it turns out Edey isn't a starting center in the NBA a few years down the line. But if he keeps starting and having a positive impact on winning, I have 0 doubt you'll admit to having been - perhaps, just perhaps - overly adamant about his impending demise.

Oh another classic “I don’t care but I’ll keep responding anyways” sure bud

You citing EPM as proof that he’s good just means you don’t understand EPM and what it’s used for. I can find all kinds of low minute players who have positive EPM that aren’t any good and random anomalies.

Zack Edey and Jaylen Brown have the same EPM at 1.3, and Luke Kornet comes in right behind at 1.2. Since you understand the stat so well and how it applies to Edeys game can you explain how he impacts the game at the same level as Brown?

Here is a list of his limitations, entirely based on actually watching him play and not regurgitating some advanced stats

1) The biggest reason why Edey is matchup dependent at best, is that he cannot guard in space. He can’t stay in front of guards or forwards because his hip rotation is very slow. Just watch him try to change direction on a cross over. If you watch the grizzlies they have him in one of the deepest drops I’ve ever seen. Go rewatch the warriors and he’s standing at the elbow while TJD is setting screens 2 feet behind the 3pt line.

He’s not even a great shot blocker for someone his size.

This will be exploited so badly in the playoffs he becomes unplayable in more than short stretches.

This part of his game can’t be fixed. He’s too big and too slow to not be exploited defensively in the modern NBA. Pull him out of the paint and the defense is scrambling

2) nobody will respect Edey shooting. He has no catch and shoot ability, no pull up ability, no mid range ability. People look at the box and say he’s shooting 40 whatever percent from 3, on no volume and other teams don’t even send someone out to contest his shots. Let him take 3s all day nobody is gonna care, don’t need to worry about hard close outs because he can’t put the ball on the floor

3) he’s shown little to no playmaking ability, he will hit a random nice bounce pass here and there but otherwise has limited passing upside. There’s no post playmaking, it’s a pass in and if he doesn’t immediately beat his man it’s just a pass right back out. There’s no cross court vision, he’s not throwing the ball ahead on fast breaks, partly because he has no ability to handle the ball and he turns the ball over a lot for someone who’s not a high usage player

If you want to refute any of these points with film, we can have a discussion

I don't think many people disagree with you. He'll settle into a role of being one of the better back up bigs in the league playing 20-25 mpg. That still has value. Do you really think he's worse than Luke Kornet, DeAndre Jordan, Zach Collins or Andre Drummond?

[jasonxxx102]

I didn't mean to proclaim you are or aren't a scout as being meaningful to the validity of your claims. I certainly don't care. But you're parading about your supposedly unblemished resume as justification for essentially trashing a player who isn't even halfway through his rookie season, while completely dismissing the available data that is proving to be inconvenient for your narrative.

You said he wasn't an impact center using the present tense. I pointed out that the data suggests otherwise, which does in fact substantiate my counterargument. If the sample is too limited to capture his impact in the present, wouldn't it be too limited for your conclusions? Or is the sample size only too small when it supports Edey's play?

Listen, even your sig is about Edey so I think it's pretty obvious you're invested in his failure. I'm sure everybody will serenade you if and when it turns out Edey isn't a starting center in the NBA a few years down the line. But if he keeps starting and having a positive impact on winning, I have 0 doubt you'll admit to having been - perhaps, just perhaps - overly adamant about his impending demise.

Oh another classic “I don’t care but I’ll keep responding anyways” sure bud

You citing EPM as proof that he’s good just means you don’t understand EPM and what it’s used for. I can find all kinds of low minute players who have positive EPM that aren’t any good and random anomalies.

Zack Edey and Jaylen Brown have the same EPM at 1.3, and Luke Kornet comes in right behind at 1.2. Since you understand the stat so well and how it applies to Edeys game can you explain how he impacts the game at the same level as Brown?

Here is a list of his limitations, entirely based on actually watching him play and not regurgitating some advanced stats

1) The biggest reason why Edey is matchup dependent at best, is that he cannot guard in space. He can’t stay in front of guards or forwards because his hip rotation is very slow. Just watch him try to change direction on a cross over. If you watch the grizzlies they have him in one of the deepest drops I’ve ever seen. Go rewatch the warriors and he’s standing at the elbow while TJD is setting screens 2 feet behind the 3pt line.

He’s not even a great shot blocker for someone his size.

This will be exploited so badly in the playoffs he becomes unplayable in more than short stretches.

This part of his game can’t be fixed. He’s too big and too slow to not be exploited defensively in the modern NBA. Pull him out of the paint and the defense is scrambling

2) nobody will respect Edey shooting. He has no catch and shoot ability, no pull up ability, no mid range ability. People look at the box and say he’s shooting 40 whatever percent from 3, on no volume and other teams don’t even send someone out to contest his shots. Let him take 3s all day nobody is gonna care, don’t need to worry about hard close outs because he can’t put the ball on the floor

3) he’s shown little to no playmaking ability, he will hit a random nice bounce pass here and there but otherwise has limited passing upside. There’s no post playmaking, it’s a pass in and if he doesn’t immediately beat his man it’s just a pass right back out. There’s no cross court vision, he’s not throwing the ball ahead on fast breaks, partly because he has no ability to handle the ball and he turns the ball over a lot for someone who’s not a high usage player

If you want to refute any of these points with film, we can have a discussion

I don't think many people disagree with you. He'll settle into a role of being one of the better back up bigs in the league playing 20-25 mpg. That still has value. Do you really think he's worse than Luke Kornet, DeAndre Jordan, Zach Collins or Andre Drummond?

That's exactly what I'm saying lol. He's going to be a Luke Kornet, Zach Collins type player.

Somehow that makes me a hater. The amount of discussion around a guy who isn't special is just mind blowing to me.

I guess people need something to talk about in such a terrible draft but like... Wouldn't they rather talk about a guy like Risacher and his potential upside?

Or do we really want to dissect the game of a guy who's not going to matter in the grand scheme?

[7seventynine9]

Alex Sarr's last 16 games: 14.3 points, 7.1 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.3 blocks. .475/.427/.610

[Jamaaliver]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[Dan Z]

Why didn't Jaylen Wells go in the first round?

[Jamaaliver]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[Jamaaliver]

A big part of the reason this class has been so underwhelming:

[jasonxxx102]

A big part of the reason this class has been so underwhelming:

It's not underwhelming because they don't play. They don't play because they're not good enough to contribute to the teams they're on.

Cody Williams barely looks like an end of the bench guy, Houston is just way too good to give Sheppard any minutes, Dillingham is another guy who doesn't look like an NBA player.

Topic might have been interesting and Holmes was a backup big on the Nuggets.

The McCain injury was really unfortunate because he was the only guy who was mildly interesting so far.

[jasonxxx102]

I was never on Dillingham and never understood the hype with him either. 6' 165lb guards basically never last in the NBA and are just awful defensively. He's not an elite playmaker, and he gives up 2x more defensively than he could get you on the other end. I'd be surprised if he's in the NBA 5 years from now.