Haynes: The Suns are benching Beal and Nurkić

[Mr Puddles]

Why is Ginobli the only "star" capable and happy to win off the bench?

Ego's are ridiculous

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

[Diop]

Beal played 30 minutes and scored 25 points, seems like a good move.

hopefully they stick with it for a bit

[Diop]

Why is Ginobli the only "star" capable and happy to win off the bench?

Ego's are ridiculous

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

he was on the court to end the game, isn't that more important than starting?

[DirtyDez]

Who wants an elite 6th man?!

[Mr Puddles]

Why is Ginobli the only "star" capable and happy to win off the bench?

Ego's are ridiculous

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

he was on the court to end the game, isn't that more important than starting?

That's always what I find puzzling about the whole "starter" conversation.

Off the bench, Beal will still play starter minutes and finish games, and he'll be in lineups better suited to his skill set while having more freedom on offense.

Yet these guys prefer to be relegated to a third option on offense just so they can be in "the starting line-up".

It's completely non-sensical.

[SunsLyf3]

Why did they sour on Nurkic so quickly? He had a pretty good year last year

There's more pressure in Phoenix to be successful right away due to the smaller window. They also finally realized that Nurk was not a winning player and never will be. Teams where he played in the playoffs are 3 - 17 with 0 playoff series win. We can talk about depth/talent in Portland but the one season they made a run Whiteside was the starter. Nurk is an empty stats guy. Grayson Allen is the 1 saving grace from that trade but in hindsight it looks like Portland fleeced the Suns. Even with DA not caring about his effort.

For as much crap Lillard got for being a bad defender in Portland, I struggled with how few saw the issues with Nurkic's defense post injury. His biggest issue was how non-existent his defensive rotations were to the perimeter. I'd see plays where Lillard had to close out a guy on the wing near 45 degrees from the basket, then that guy would swing the ball to an open corner 3. It would be Nurkic's rotation but he wouldn't leave the post, so Lillard would end up having to run to the corner next. I just knew Lillard would be blamed in those moments because at a glance he would end up as the closest player but not quite there. Lillard wasn't good at defense for sure, but there was a large chunk of plays where Nurkic would be the one to throw off the defensive rotations and others were somehow blamed for it by those unaware of how a defensive rotation should work.

Lillard was the easy scapegoat. He shouldered the offense and was expected to be elite at defense. Team could have won if they built the defense properly. Covington was a good asset but they missed that defensive presence. Nurkic would have been good 15 years ago but he came up at a time when the NBA was transitioning. So you're either elite/near elite on offense with meh defense as a center or you're a really good defender that can switch and hit 3's here and there.

[Myth]

Team could have won if they built the defense properly.

I always said the Rose led Bulls and the AI led 76ers should have been the structure. Surround the elite offense guard with defenders and let him go to work. But no, they insisted on CJ and the Simons being his sidekicks and rarely focused on getting defenders. Not just that, but they’d go 3 guard lineups with guys like Trent or Powell being the guys expected to guard LeBron and other huge wings. They’d eventually land a random defender like Covington and say “Go guard everybody” then act like they were confused as to why the team would struggle on defense still. So frustrating.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Why is Ginobli the only "star" capable and happy to win off the bench?

Ego's are ridiculous

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

I think Suns trying to push Bradley to take his talents to south beach in exchange for Jimmy B

[Mr Puddles]

Why is Ginobli the only "star" capable and happy to win off the bench?

Ego's are ridiculous

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

I think Suns trying to push Bradley to take his talents to south beach in exchange for Jimmy B

The Suns need their version of Dallas' Gafford / Washington trade deadline, not another superstar swap.

Trading Beal for Butler would be trading one problem for another, and it would likely cost the Suns their '31 to get it done.

A player in the mold of Claxton (probably not attainable) or Nic Richards would be a much better acquisition than Butler IMO.

[JRoy]

Who wants an elite 6th man?!

Good question.

Better question might be who wants to $50 million a year for an elite 6th man?

[ArksNetsSince99]

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

I think Suns trying to push Bradley to take his talents to south beach in exchange for Jimmy B

The Suns need their version of Dallas' Gafford / Washington trade deadline, not another superstar swap.

Trading Beal for Butler would be trading one problem for another, and it would likely cost the Suns their '31 to get it done.

A player in the mold of Claxton (probably not attainable) or Nic Richards would be a much better acquisition than Butler IMO.

I think you either overestimate Beal massively or underestimate Jimmy by a lot or both

[Mr Puddles]

I think Suns trying to push Bradley to take his talents to south beach in exchange for Jimmy B

The Suns need their version of Dallas' Gafford / Washington trade deadline, not another superstar swap.

Trading Beal for Butler would be trading one problem for another, and it would likely cost the Suns their '31 to get it done.

A player in the mold of Claxton (probably not attainable) or Nic Richards would be a much better acquisition than Butler IMO.

I think you either overestimate Beal massively or underestimate Jimmy by a lot or both

It's not a talent thing, it's a fit thing. Butler is unhappy now, how long do you think he'll last in Phoenix with three dominant ball handlers already in their starting line up. Getting butler will make the Suns marginally better, but it's not the type of trade they need.

The Suns need good role players, not more super stars.

[Sane]

Good move. It was always obvious Beal has to come off the bench. It's just a mathematical issue, nothing personal. Booker and Durant have always done better with a PG on the floor. They're not your James Hardens, these are not lead playmakers. They're more like a Kawhi - they need a PG. Booker is not a good enough PG. He's a 2 or a smallball 3. Durant is starting to become too slow for the SF spot, he's practically a full-time PF at this point if you want to extend his ability to beat his man off the dribble.

So the 1 or 2 was never ever going to be ok for Beal unless we discovered he can be a 10 assist per 36 guy or a low TO guy. He's none. He can't play the 3. It gets even more complicated actually.

Now you know you need a PG, Booker at the 2 and Durant at the 4. You already have your next problems to solve: there's no one here who can guard the best perimter player and the best big. If you don't understand the NBA tactically, you should know there is no such thing as a team that wins in the playoffs without those things. It's not optional and it can't be covered even with greatest offenses we've seen in the last 10 years. No matter how good you are at scoring, you won't be better than your opponent's lead scorer being defended by Booker or Beal.

So now these positions are locked:

rim protector who is a good screen setter or can stretch the floor
Durant
perimeter defender who can at minimum make open 3's and ensure Durant/Booker don't have to do that a lot
Booker
Floor general who can make open 3's

Beal does not fit any of these. I posted that on the day the trade was made that someone is going to get fired but it should be the GM or the owner because it was an unsolvable problem even if Beal was healthy. Ended up being the coach, who didn't do himself any favors with his uninspiring offensive ideas.

I'll bet you anything they go on a great run the rest of the way if Booker/Durant are healthy. Also, pretty clear they're dead-set on making a trade and they should be. Even in a lateral-value move, the roster needs more balance.

I thought that the NBA was moving to position-less basketball, where every player is around 6'6 to 6'9, everyone can handle the ball, everyone can create, everyone can shoot. This is the era of the most talented players.

Why are we going back to archaic positions for players.....

But they don't have enough positionless players to do that, so should we do the next best thing?

[UglyBugBall]

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

he was on the court to end the game, isn't that more important than starting?

That's always what I find puzzling about the whole "starter" conversation.

Off the bench, Beal will still play starter minutes and finish games, and he'll be in lineups better suited to his skill set while having more freedom on offense.

Yet these guys prefer to be relegated to a third option on offense just so they can be in "the starting line-up".

It's completely non-sensical.

It's pretty logical, look at it from Beals perspective. Why isn't Durant or Booker moved to the bench either? That will also leave Beal with lineups where he can do more damage it. But no, it's Beal being moved to the bench and not those two. So yes, it's a slight and insult against Beal. If you're a starter you don't want to be moved to the bench unless every other starter is moved too.

[Diop]

he was on the court to end the game, isn't that more important than starting?

That's always what I find puzzling about the whole "starter" conversation.

Off the bench, Beal will still play starter minutes and finish games, and he'll be in lineups better suited to his skill set while having more freedom on offense.

Yet these guys prefer to be relegated to a third option on offense just so they can be in "the starting line-up".

It's completely non-sensical.

It's pretty logical, look at it from Beals perspective. Why isn't Durant or Booker moved to the bench either? That will also leave Beal with lineups where he can do more damage it. But no, it's Beal being moved to the bench and not those two. So yes, it's a slight and insult against Beal. If you're a starter you don't want to be moved to the bench unless every other starter is moved too.

So yes, it’s ego, not putting the team first

[cupcakesnake]

I don't know if Portland fleeced the Suns based on Ayton. I don't think Ayton or Nurkic had much value around the league, so it was more of two teams trading styles. Losing Toumani Camara maybe is the bigger thing, though who knows what he would have been in Phoenix. Like you said, you got Grayson in that trade.

Even with Ayton struggling in Portland, I really don't know what the Suns were thinking bringing in Nurk even if that meant they got Allen. An unmotivated Ayton is still a full tier above Nurkic's best play and he could at least move his feet on defense. 18/10 in his final RS with the Suns and although his numbers dipped in the 8 games he played in the RS with KD they still went undefeated. The franchise as a whole just overreacted once Chris inevitably got injured again against the Nuggets and began this avalanche of franchise crippling moves.

Grayson was a great RS addition last season and a luxury that the Suns can't really afford to have but had to pay this offseason with no other options. Anybody could see that pairing him with Booker was never going to work defensively in the playoffs and if not for his injury it was only going to get further exposed as that series rolled along. I actually think it's a miracle that Vogel coached last year's team to 13th in DRTG and surprisingly an even better ORTG this year at 117.6 (9th) vs 114.5 (10th).

Ayton wasn't a better defender than Nurkic by the end of his time with Suns. After a pretty incredible defensive run in 2021, Ayton regressed badly. While he did technically have better footspeed than Nurkic (though Nurk has quicker feet than you might think), Ayton was so mistake prone and brain dead on defense that I understand why Phoenix felt they had to get rid of him if they wanted to be a serious team. Ayton also became increasingly unwilling and unable to do the little things they wanted out of the center position, specifically setting hard screens and running a ton of DHO. Nurk was not a talent upgrade at all, but he did come in and do those things they needed.

Despite playing with the starters, Ayton was a huge defensive minus in his last season in Phoenix. 115 defensive rating with him on the floor (vs. 111 with him off), and Phoenix lost the Ayton minutes overall on the year. He became a pretty big glaring problem.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't like the trade. I don't think Nurkic was good enough to help them in a meaningful way. Even if I liked Nurkic, his health was so unreliable that it makes no sense to trade for him to be your "more dependable center".

In year 1, Nurkic was basically everything they hoped for though. Monster screener, extremely efficient in DHO, and by far their most reliable defender according to on/off numbers. Now he's 30 and looks slower and worse at everything, as injuries have been chipping away at his mobility for years.

[They_Them_Hatin]

The sooner Beal realizes he's better off playing the Jamal Crawford role off the bench, the better it will be for his career.

Yes I know, 50 mil bench player. That ship has sailed, you're not entitled to a starting position just because you're being paid like a superstar.

There are only a handful of teams out there who will want Beal as a starter, but Beal has the skill set to thrive as a primary bench scorer if he embraces it.

he was on the court to end the game, isn't that more important than starting?

That's always what I find puzzling about the whole "starter" conversation.

Off the bench, Beal will still play starter minutes and finish games, and he'll be in lineups better suited to his skill set while having more freedom on offense.

Yet these guys prefer to be relegated to a third option on offense just so they can be in "the starting line-up".

It's completely non-sensical.

Exactly! It’s insane! I’m glad Bud did this and look at the results. Still need an upgrade at center but I liked the results.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Read on Twitter

Good thing the Wizards will still stink but man they are dumb.

[SkyBill40]

Beal played his ass off last night, having a much better game than Booker. Does this speak to his case about still being a capable starter? Sure it does; however, his fit here is overlapping and unnecessary unless he comes off the bench to be that sparkplug. If he is fine taking on that role, great; if not, he needs to ease up on his no-trade and let them find a new and better place for him. I'd hope we can get a decent return and not be forced to give up that sole FRP we possess, but I'm a realist and know that's going wherever he goes.

It's disappointing to see the haul WAS took from us for Beal. Even if it was nice to jettison the contracts of Paul and Shamet, this was far from an ideal pairing. We needed to trade for need and not to backfill an existing strength. Hopefully Mat Ishbia sees the error in his ways and takes a step back from trying to be the fit-it man instead of just being the money.

[Fo-Real]

Beal played 30 minutes and scored 25 points, seems like a good move.

hopefully they stick with it for a bit

He looked great.