2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg

[redslastlaugh]

Man, you have a lot of int’l flavor in your top 35. I haven’t even heard of the Greek guy Nikleos Avocado (or whatever his name) you have at #13. But you are pretty far down on Noa Essengue and Hugo Gonzalez. I don’t know what to make of Hugo but Noa seems like he could really fill out. I hate to say it, but he gives off some slight young Giannis in Greece vibes. Probably not gonna gain 40 lbs of muscle, but if he did…? But I haven’t looked too closely into him, just clips and measurements and, of course, him being young in age.

I also am intrigued by a lot of the guards in this draft. There’s some thought that in the 20s and 30s, guards and bigs provide the most value because any wing worth a flip goes in lottery and teens.

What happened with Jamir Watkins? Last cycle you were pretty high on him. What cooled you on him as a prospect? Just a better draft?

My current big board:

Read on Twitter

[djFan71]

If we end up 28, could we trade up in the first / down in the 2nd?

Examples 28 and 32 for:

OKC: 22 and 46
BKN: 25 and 37
ORL: 21 and 51

They all have other firsts and could want to get that higher 2nd.

Go for Fleming, Sorber, Essengue type with the higher 1st
Then Proctor, Byrd, Clifford, Sallis type with the lower 2nd

[brackdan70]

My current big board:

Read on Twitter

I’d be thrilled with one of those Lavender dudes.
Thanks for sharing. Broome pretty far down the list? What are your thoughts there? Doesn’t fit with today’s game?

[Hal14]

If we go for a wing..I'm very high on Neoklis Avdalas.

He went undrafted in the latest Bleacher Report mock that got posted yesterday but he's 13th on my personal big board..

Wrote an article on him here:
https://the-center-hub.com/2025/01/02/going-greek-the-best-sleeper-in-the-2025-draft/

[Hal14]

Broome pretty far down the list? What are your thoughts there? Doesn’t fit with today’s game?

I've got him ranked at 28..I think that's pretty high.

The latest Bleacher report mock, posted yesterday has him going 45th.

Hard to rank him much higher, mainly because:

a) bigs who play 4 years of college ball don't typically do so great in the NBA..nor do they typically go very high in the draft

Read on Twitter

b) Typically, the bigs who are worth drafting in the top 15 or 20 picks are not only younger but also fit 1 of these 2 archetypes:

-Freak in terms of defense/rim protection..also probably a really good lob threat to give vertical spacing on offense (Lively, Yves Missi, Time Lord, etc.)
-Really good in terms offensive skill...like really good dribble/pass/shoot stuff (Sengun, Sabonis, Jokic, etc.)
-Perhaps a combination of the 2 above (Chet, Mobley, Wemby, AD, JJJ, etc)

Broome doesn't really fit any of those. He's kind of like a Trayce Jackson-Davis, Kevon Looney, Brandon Clark type (not really guys you'd want to take in the top 15-20 picks).if he really hits, he's a Hartenstein or Zubac type, but both of those guys were only like 19 when they were drafted. Broome will turn 23 in July.

Still, I can see him carving out a decent career as a backup big. He's got some moves near the basket..he can pass well..there's *some* shooting..he's tough, strong..can rebound..decent defender. No real weaknesses which is why I do have him as a late 1st rounder. Wouldn't hate it if we took him somewhere in like the 28-38 range..

[Hal14]

you are pretty far down on Noa Essengue and Hugo Gonzalez. I don’t know what to make of Hugo but Noa seems like he could really fill out. I hate to say it, but he gives off some slight young Giannis in Greece vibes. Probably not gonna gain 40 lbs of muscle, but if he did…? But I haven’t looked too closely into him, just clips and measurements and, of course, him being young in age.

I see Essengue as a guy I wouldn't really take in the top 35 or so picks. There's better options imo. He has size, he's young and has some nice stats, but looking closer at the film it's hard to really understand what he does that will translate to the NBA level. He's just okay defensively. Which means the offense has to be really good..but it's not. He can't really dribble or shoot, and the passing is ok but nothing special.

I think he's kind of overrated by some.

There's potential but he's a project.

I kind of get what you mean about looking like Giannis before he was drafted. But Giannis had outlier development..you can't really expect everyone is gonna develop like Giannis did. I watched some footage of some of the FIBA games he played for Greece the year he got drafted and he didn't even look that good..looked like a guy who had just started playing basketball. Watching that footage, it blows my mind to see the player he ended up becoming because the player he is now looks nothing like what he looked like at age 18.

People said the same thing (looks like a young Giannis) last year about Tidjane Salaun and Ulrich Chomche, just because they were tall, athletic and raw. But so far, neither of them is doing much in the NBA..

What happened with Jamir Watkins? Last cycle you were pretty high on him. What cooled you on him as a prospect? Just a better draft?

Better draft is maybe a small part of it.

But moreso he's a year older now..gonna be just about 24 on draft night this time around. Tough to take a guy who's that old too high in the draft. To draft a guy who's that old in the 1st round, he's gotta be *really* good but Watkins hasn't been *really* good this season..he's just been good..and in a few categories, he's actually gotten worse - like with his 3 pt shooting.

He is still awesome at driving, getting to the rim, getting paint touches. But you need to do more than that. As a wing, you've gotta be able to shoot really well..and if not, your defense has to be elite. Watkins is good on D but not elite. I need to see the shooting and/or the defense pick up to move him up higher on my big board. But as of now, I see him as just a flier in the mid to late 2nd round, at best.

[165bows]

Broome pretty far down the list? What are your thoughts there? Doesn’t fit with today’s game?

I've got him ranked at 28..I think that's pretty high.

The latest Bleacher report mock, posted yesterday has him going 45th.

Hard to rank him much higher, mainly because:

a) bigs who play 4 years of college ball don't typically do so great in the NBA..nor do they typically go very high in the draft

Read on Twitter

b) Typically, the bigs who are worth drafting in the top 15 or 20 picks are not only younger but also fit 1 of these 2 archetypes:

-Freak in terms of defense/rim protection..also probably a really good lob threat to give vertical spacing on offense (Lively, Yves Missi, Time Lord, etc.)
-Really good in terms offensive skill...like really good dribble/pass/shoot stuff (Sengun, Sabonis, Jokic, etc.)
-Perhaps a combination of the 2 above (Chet, Mobley, Wemby, AD, JJJ, etc)

Broome doesn't really fit any of those. He's kind of like a Trayce Jackson-Davis, Kevon Looney type..if he really hits, he's a Hartenstein or Zubac type, but both of those guys were only like 19 when they were drafted. Broome will turn 23 in July.

Still, I can see him carving out a decent career as a backup big. He's got some moves near the basket..he can pass well..there's *some* shooting..he's tough, strong..can rebound..decent defender. No real weaknesses which is why I do have him as a late 1st rounder. Wouldn't hate it if we took him somewhere in like the 28-38 range..

I haven’t followed Broome super close but his more upside comps seem like the Millsap/Brandon Clark type rather than Hartenstein/Zubac. Aren’t those two guys quite a bit bigger, true center style guys compared to Broome?

[phincsfan]

Broome's draft slot in mocks is interesting. He's not undersized to where he'll get bullied in the paint. Decent wingspan. He's played 3 years in the SEC so the competition level is high. He can score the ball and he could even handle the ball pretty good. Injuries aren't a concern because he doesn't really miss games. Good with fouls. Not the best FT shooter but hasn't really improved also. Kind of shows how his style of game doesn't translate at the moment.

I can't see a team passing on him in the 1st round. IMO, he's more offensively gifted than Kessler and Kessler was not in most 1st round mocks in that draft. I get the age thing, but there's no injury history and he has excellent experience. When I see the kid Rocco going in the teens I'm like HUH?

[Hal14]

Broome's draft slot in mocks is interesting. He's not undersized to where he'll get bullied in the paint. Decent wingspan. He's played 3 years in the SEC so the competition level is high. He can score the ball and he could even handle the ball pretty good. Injuries aren't a concern because he doesn't really miss games. Good with fouls. Not the best FT shooter but hasn't really improved also. Kind of shows how his style of game doesn't translate at the moment.

I can't see a team passing on him in the 1st round. IMO, he's more offensively gifted than Kessler and Kessler was not in most 1st round mocks in that draft. I get the age thing, but there's no injury history and he has excellent experience. When I see the kid Rocco going in the teens I'm like HUH?

Well, the latest bleacher report mock has Broome going 45th so it's certainly possible he falls out of the 1st round. Every year there's guys who fall into the 2nd round who many people thought would go in the 1st round too - last year it was Filipowski..in past years it was guys like Jared Butler, Sharife Cooper, EJ Liddell, Jaden Hardy, etc.

The mock drafts are simply a guess as to where players will go. So I wouldn't read *too* deeply into them. Also, the closer to the draft it is, the more accurate the mock will be. So mocks right now in early January don't mean a whole lot. Also, mocks are better at predicting picks higher up in the draft. The deeper you get into the draft, the more likely that mock is to be wrong.

As for Walker Kessler, this was a mock pretty close to the draft that had him going 18th, which is pretty close to where he actually got picked - 22nd
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-mock-draft-gonzagas-chet-holmgren-has-highest-ceiling-goes-no-1-ahead-of-dukes-paolo-banchero/

As for Rocco..he's had like 2 games in a row know where he's been a healthy DNP. He has not been very good this season and his minutes have been going down. And he is only 18 yrs old so at this point I think there's a good chance he won't even declare for the draft - or perhaps he'll declare and just test the waters, get feedback from NBA teams before withdrawing his name. Seems like he needs at least another year overseas to keep developing before he's ready to get drafted.

But as far as why you're so surprised Rocco is ranked higher than Broome when Broome has been playing much better, age does play a significant factor. Rocco is 4 years younger than Broome. That does make a big difference. With that being said, I do have Broome ranked higher on my board right now..again, while Rocco is young, he's barely even playing and hasn't been playing very well so I probably wouldn't even draft him this year.

As for Broome, yeah he's pretty good. But as I mentioned before, most of the top bigs in the league right now are either elite defenders/rim protectors who probably are really good lob catchers (time lord, gobert, lively, Missi, Capela, etc.) or they're extremely skilled offensively (Sabonis,Vucevic, Jokic, Sengun, etc.). Broome isn't really any of those things. He's maybe a Looney, Brandon Clark, Trayce Jackson-Davis type of guy which is probably a guy you take in like the 21-30 range, at the earliest. But might be more of a 2nd round guy if you think his ceiling is just a backup big man. Those types of bigs aren't super valuable - you can usually just snag a guy like Daniel Theis on a cheap FA contract to give you some mins as a backup big..or sign a guy like Kornet or Queta..

And again, age matters quite a bit for bigs. You look at the top 30 or even 40 bigs in the league. Pretty much all of them were younger than Broome when they were drafted. Most of them were between age 18-20 when drafted.

[playa-hater]

Outside of the top pick or 2 this year which is obviously Cooper Flagg, How would you guys compare This year's draft potential to last year? And yes I know it's early

[djFan71]

2nd round pick bowl tonight. Go Pellies!

[redslastlaugh]

Yeah, big game for us, let’s go Pels! Washington is starting to put a little bit of better play together, let’s put a stop to that!

Funnily, ESPN.com links to ticket brokers on their scoreboard, Tickets for Wiz v. Pels starting at $3 ! Lol, hot ticket!!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/scoreboard

2nd round pick bowl tonight. Go Pellies!

[phincsfan]

Gators and Cats playing now. 2nd rounders to watch, Clayton, Robinson and Brea.

[redslastlaugh]

Rasheer Fleming’s highlights so far this season are pretty sick. I understand he’s not as good as he looks in these highlights, some of the competition was subprime and his touch is supposedly not so soft… but I can’t see him being available at our pick, which is too bad because I’d love to draft a frontcourt player to develop who’s a dawg

Watch on YouTube

[phincsfan]

Labaron Philon vs Jeremiah Fears at 6 today.

[brackdan70]

Outside of the top pick or 2 this year which is obviously Cooper Flagg, How would you guys compare This year's draft potential to last year? And yes I know it's early

Last years draft was ****. This years is one of the better ones of the last 20 years…maybe top 5 in that span. For me I see guys in the 30-50 range that I think can be solid NBA guys and guys that get me excited. Last year….eh not the same.

Let me qualify that comment with the fact that I don’t know ****.

[playa-hater]

I am starting to think Boston should take a good look at drafting a nice taller type of PG. One who excels at defense first. As some have mentioned he would be a good counter for PP while also eventually replacing Jrue.

[ThePigeon]

Give me Danny Wolf with the 2nd round pick
High IQ big that will excel in our system

Watch on YouTube

[redslastlaugh]

Interesting idea. Probably some picks will move around before the draft, esp the trade deadline, creating more opportunities for this type of trade.

We did something like this in the first round in 2003 when we had 16 and 20 and moved up to 13 in exchange for dropping back to 28.

Say we end up with 28 and 32. Could we interest a team if they had, say, 22 and 47 or something? maybe, I think that’d be an interesting idea. Though being so far in the tax, a 22nd pick makes whatever $500k more than a #28 pick. And we’re in 4x or 5x or 7x, whatever it is, repeater tax coming into next season. So Brad maybe like, “eh we can get a good enough guy at #28 and pay a lower price,” if that’s the order from ownership, which may or may not be new ownership come June…

If we end up 28, could we trade up in the first / down in the 2nd?

Examples 28 and 32 for:

OKC: 22 and 46
BKN: 25 and 37
ORL: 21 and 51

They all have other firsts and could want to get that higher 2nd.

Go for Fleming, Sorber, Essengue type with the higher 1st
Then Proctor, Byrd, Clifford, Sallis type with the lower 2nd

[Hal14]

Good piece on Karaban:
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/when-you-look-at-alex-karaban-the

Feel like he'll probably be off the board before our pick. But I wouldn't hate it at all if we took him.

The way he (on the surface) looks like a slow, unathletic white guy but at the same time will run off screens and hit movement 3's, and also show sneaky athleticism by blocking shots, it *kind of* reminds me of Bird. (not saying he's as good as Bird of course, just that there's some stuff i see on film that kind of give Bird vibes).

Plus he seems to have a knack for making good play after good play, with great feel and basketball IQ..and is a winner, was starter on national championship team as a freshman and as a sophomore.