PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[NiceLikeChrist]

We cant hit three's anymore...

28.8% over our last 8

[Jalen Bluntson]

I’m starting to realize, we’re never going to win a ring
This is the best team I’ve seen in 30 years, if we dont win in this window, it will be another 20-30 years

Good thing this isn’t a one year window then. All the current core players are entering their primes. This core(unless this team completely implodes) will be together for the next few years. Rose isn’t done. We’ll see just how savvy of a GM he is with the moves be makes to add some sort of depth to this team.

It's not the players. It's the coach. He won't play them anyway. How many years of proof do people need? Enough is enough. Thibs doesn't EVER play his bench until his favorites drop like flies.

You are right about one thing though, this isn't a one year window. It's only a matter of how long they waste on Thibs before they fire him. I expect the rest of this season he will get a pass. Then we will see this all over again next year and that's when he'll be on the hot seat. We will waste years of this cores prime and then we will move on. Hopefully it's not too late by then.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I meant way better before Randle got injured. I mean even you said he didn’t start going crazy until Jan/Feb. what about before that? It shows if we actually had the capable personnel it likely wouldn’t be this way. This year right out of the gate we had no precious or shamet or mitch or whoever else. Now deuce. The bench has not just been bad but sporadic on availability. And it’s a glut of backup guards with no backup wing on the roster. Outside of the starting 5 it’s a poorly constructed roster with a depth problem. The depth problem leads to the minutes problem

The bench was 18th in MPG before Randle got hurt, he doesn't really use his benches like that. This is who he is, and it's an easily checked history.

18th isn’t that bad. That’s without even comparing the players coming off the bench then vs now. Hartenstein. McBride. Donte. Hart. Quickley(pre January) Grimes. Etc. it’s basically a dream team of talent compared to the current bench of castoffs and g leaguers.

Having those guys on a bench and ranking 18th is miserable, how can you try and spin below league average as not that bad considering how much talent those guys have? That's 3 starters on other teams, between Ihart, IQ and Donte (He's now a starter in Minn), and even with that bench he didn't crack top 10.


Through 13 seasons as a coach, his benches have ranked 24th in MPG, that is a feature. He had some good players across those teams rotting on benches.

[CyKnickal]

Donte became a cult hero here. He became a guy so important that he changed the face of the team. He was the guy that the Wolves wanted so bad that they held up the trade for the Knicks to give in and throw him in.

Never forget, that the only reason Donte was even playing was because Grimes got injured and Donte had to be shoe horned into the rotation. What would've happened if Grimes played the whole season? Who knows.....but that's the question now.

A couple of polished players on the bench, ready to contribute, have shown they can contribute, not getting a chance. What can they do for us? Who knows....and the only way we can is if somebody on the roster falls out of the rotation.

We don't have two centers in the rotation, and this guy trots out the same **** guy who has shown nothing this whole season and is an absolute waste of basketball dna.

We need to run a cohesive offense with Jalen hurting and blowing possessions, and this guy trots out two chuckers who haven't been any good, one guy who didn't even play all year and just gets to come in and join the rotation while the kid winning MVP and a championship for the alternate squad, somebody who dropped 30's and 10's then came and gave you a solid game on the same day, sits there and watches turnovers and bad shots from low iq chuckers.

Oh, Kenny...where art thou. Oh yeah, with Cleveland, hanging out with Johnny Bryant, turning a mid tier bunch into an unstoppable team. The coaching staff I used to dream of shows I'm not an idiot, like Josh Hart thinks, who thinks we're just "crying about things". FOH.

It's becoming clearer and clearer.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

MSG network even had enough...

[NiceLikeChrist]

Some of you have such tunnel vision about one thing, you can’t have a nuanced discussion about other problems. Reminds me of one issue voters.

While Thibs needs to utilize the bench better, the Knicks have one of healthiest teams in the league. We have issues beyond minute totals

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

How is it that every team thibs coaches ends up having the worst bench in the league? Because his teams are consistently bottom 3 in bench minutes and that goes across 3 different franchises

Man the guy has some bad luck

[robillionaire]

The bench was 18th in MPG before Randle got hurt, he doesn't really use his benches like that. This is who he is, and it's an easily checked history.

18th isn’t that bad. That’s without even comparing the players coming off the bench then vs now. Hartenstein. McBride. Donte. Hart. Quickley(pre January) Grimes. Etc. it’s basically a dream team of talent compared to the current bench of castoffs and g leaguers.

Having those guys on a bench and ranking 18th is miserable, how can you try and spin below league average as not that bad considering how much talent those guys have? That's 3 starters on other teams, between Ihart, IQ and Donte (He's now a starter in Minn), and even with that bench he didn't crack top 10.


Through 13 seasons as a coach, his benches have ranked 24th in MPG, that is a feature. He had some good players across those teams rotting on benches.

My instinct is to say this is a misleading stat because bad rebuilding teams are naturally going to play their benches more. I don’t think the team rank is very important

Yes he plays his bench fewer minutes but18th to last is a big drop off and it correlates with the talent level available. He built up those 3 players value bringing them in as bench players and rookie so it’s off to use their starting status(Ihart and Donte started here by the end of it) as a bad thing he did when they had little value and he got them paid

[HighRyzer83]

Guess the bench isn't good after all.

Shamet, Sims and Precious are a horrible bench. I would much rather put faith in Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti

Literally everyone across the entire NBA spectrum agrees with this except Thibs

[NiceLikeChrist]

Sims, Achiuwa and Shamet all getting over 20 minutes like we all wanted and providing the spark we all knew they would provide. Magnificent performance by our fresh and energized spark plugs. If only our starters played less we would have totally blown out the Magic tonight with our amazing depth. Really enjoyed their performance, more minutes coach

In other words you think the team would be better off playing all starters 48 mins every game? Got it!



Cole Anthony had been barely in rotation for a few weeks, then injury happened to Suggs and he played and dropped 24 in this game. Even when his own coach Moshley thought Cole sucked when he gave him playing time, he produced.

Most NBA players when they're given playing time and trust, they produce.

Under coaches like Moshley, Daignault, Spo, Lue, aka the real coaches players like Huk, Kolek would be in rotation. They all can play, even Pac.

Take more risks, that's how the team you lead can thrive. Playing it safe is the riskiest move you can take, and we're all now paying for it dearly.

No I have this crazy idea, check it out. So there’s this guy who has the power to make these things called trades, right? You won’t believe it but he’s the same guy who brought in the starting lineup. So his job is to recognize the weakness of the bench and actually do something about it by making a trade. So until that happens, there are going to be some bad losses and bumps along the way. Crazy I know but that’s what other teams are doing so we just have to wait our turn

Riiiiight. It’s not the coaches responsibility to learn how to best utilize and maximize the players in front of him. His job is sit on his hands, run starters into the ground, and hope the front office plops some all stars on the bench.

Go take a look at the Memphis roster. The team that is 24-13, same as us, yet they average the most bench minutes and most bench scoring in the league. You tell me if thibs would have that team 24-13.

[HighRyzer83]

Seriously, what did Kolek do to Thibs? This seems personal. Any other team he'd be logging legit minutes, possibly in the ROY running

[NoDopeOnSundays]

18th isn’t that bad. That’s without even comparing the players coming off the bench then vs now. Hartenstein. McBride. Donte. Hart. Quickley(pre January) Grimes. Etc. it’s basically a dream team of talent compared to the current bench of castoffs and g leaguers.

Having those guys on a bench and ranking 18th is miserable, how can you try and spin below league average as not that bad considering how much talent those guys have? That's 3 starters on other teams, between Ihart, IQ and Donte (He's now a starter in Minn), and even with that bench he didn't crack top 10.


Through 13 seasons as a coach, his benches have ranked 24th in MPG, that is a feature. He had some good players across those teams rotting on benches.

My instinct is to say this is a misleading stat because bad rebuilding teams are naturally going to play their benches more. I don’t think the team rank is very important

Yes he plays his bench fewer minutes but18th to last is a big drop off and it correlates with the talent level available. He built up those 3 players value bringing them in as bench players and rookie so it’s off to use their starting status(Ihart and Donte started here by the end of it) as a bad thing he did when they had little value and he got them paid

You don't think rank is important because it hurts your point about Tom, I understand. The real point is that he rides his starters more than anyone else, which is what the stat really shows. Is that the complaints Bulls & Wolves fans had about him playing starters too much holds true for us too, whether or not the talent was good or bad it didn't really matter because he was going to play his bench. We're having the same exact problems the Bulls and Wolves had with him, 3 different teams with the same issues, it's the coach.

18th is an outlier based on all those other years where his teams have benches that basically don't play, you're focused on that and not all the years his teams rank 25 or higher.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's hilarious that the team missing 3 starters and two key bench players managed to go ten deep and only two guys played more than THIRTY MINUTES and they WON!

Keep telling yourself it's the players and not the coach. You would be dead wrong as usual whenever we have this debate. Thibs sucks!! He overplays his starters for regular season wins and falls apart every year in the playoffs. Orlando just proved the point.

[CyKnickal]

Some of you have such tunnel vision about one thing, you can’t have a nuanced discussion about other problems. Reminds me of one issue voters.

While Thibs needs to utilize the bench better, the Knicks have one of healthiest teams in the league. We have issues beyond minute totals

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

Oh yeah, so the guys on our bench are worse than the bench warmers the Magic trotted out tonight because they are down 4 rotation players? Guys who won't see a minute once their rotation is back? And they still went 10 deep, outplaying our regulars. How? Talent? We had more talent tonight, so don't know wtf you're talking about.

[Butch718]

Some of you have such tunnel vision about one thing, you can’t have a nuanced discussion about other problems. Reminds me of one issue voters.

While Thibs needs to utilize the bench better, the Knicks have one of healthiest teams in the league. We have issues beyond minute totals

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

Oh yeah, so the guys on our bench are worse than the bench warmers the Magic trotted out tonight because they are down 4 rotation players? Guys who won't see a minute once their rotation is back? And they still went 10 deep, outplaying our regulars. How? Talent? We had more talent tonight, so don't know wtf you're talking about.

I also mentioned points similar to this sentiment in this thread somewhere. But go off homeboy.

[Butch718]

Some of you have such tunnel vision about one thing, you can’t have a nuanced discussion about other problems. Reminds me of one issue voters.

While Thibs needs to utilize the bench better, the Knicks have one of healthiest teams in the league. We have issues beyond minute totals

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

How is it that every team thibs coaches ends up having the worst bench in the league? Because his teams are consistently bottom 3 in bench minutes and that goes across 3 different franchises

Man the guy has some bad luck

Word

[Jalen Bluntson]

Some of you have such tunnel vision about one thing, you can’t have a nuanced discussion about other problems. Reminds me of one issue voters.

While Thibs needs to utilize the bench better, the Knicks have one of healthiest teams in the league. We have issues beyond minute totals

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

Oh yeah, so the guys on our bench are worse than the bench warmers the Magic trotted out tonight because they are down 4 rotation players? Guys who won't see a minute once their rotation is back? And they still went 10 deep, outplaying our regulars. How? Talent? We had more talent tonight, so don't know wtf you're talking about.

They were missing FIVE of their best players and still went ten deep (with only two guys playing more than 30 minutes)and blew us out! It's absolutely the HC and there's nothing left to say. Thibs has to go. Period.

[robillionaire]

Having those guys on a bench and ranking 18th is miserable, how can you try and spin below league average as not that bad considering how much talent those guys have? That's 3 starters on other teams, between Ihart, IQ and Donte (He's now a starter in Minn), and even with that bench he didn't crack top 10.


Through 13 seasons as a coach, his benches have ranked 24th in MPG, that is a feature. He had some good players across those teams rotting on benches.

My instinct is to say this is a misleading stat because bad rebuilding teams are naturally going to play their benches more. I don’t think the team rank is very important

Yes he plays his bench fewer minutes but18th to last is a big drop off and it correlates with the talent level available. He built up those 3 players value bringing them in as bench players and rookie so it’s off to use their starting status(Ihart and Donte started here by the end of it) as a bad thing he did when they had little value and he got them paid

You don't think rank is important because it hurts your point about Tom, I understand. The real point is that he rides his starters more than anyone else, which is what the stat really shows. Is that the complaints Bulls & Wolves fans had about him playing starters too much holds true for us too, whether or not the talent was good or bad it didn't really matter because he was going to play his bench. We're having the same exact problems the Bulls and Wolves had with him, 3 different teams with the same issues, it's the coach.

18th is an outlier based on all those other years where his teams have benches that basically don't play, you're focused on that and not all the years his teams rank 25 or higher.

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

[ctorres]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Josh hart just called out the captain Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The whole team sees it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His hero ball **** has to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe it's not about Brunson

You don't think OG gets frustrated with the lack of touches? He got 11 shots up but probably would have liked 15-17.

[Butch718]

The bench talent is pure garbage. Healthy or not, tired or not, you cannot contend for a chip if you have the worst bench in the league.

Oh yeah, so the guys on our bench are worse than the bench warmers the Magic trotted out tonight because they are down 4 rotation players? Guys who won't see a minute once their rotation is back? And they still went 10 deep, outplaying our regulars. How? Talent? We had more talent tonight, so don't know wtf you're talking about.

They were missing FIVE of their best players and still went ten deep and blew us out! It's absolutely the HC and there's nothing left to say. Thibs has to go. Period.

It’s literally a combination of several things:

Weak bench.
Thibs refusing to spell minutes for rookies.
Starters being tired, which is not really an excuse since Magic got their asses handed to them by the Jazz the previous night and were playing without all their best players.
Bad minutes distribution throughout the season.

But the bench is still god awful and it will not fly come playoff time.

[Jalen Bluntson]

My instinct is to say this is a misleading stat because bad rebuilding teams are naturally going to play their benches more. I don’t think the team rank is very important

Yes he plays his bench fewer minutes but18th to last is a big drop off and it correlates with the talent level available. He built up those 3 players value bringing them in as bench players and rookie so it’s off to use their starting status(Ihart and Donte started here by the end of it) as a bad thing he did when they had little value and he got them paid

You don't think rank is important because it hurts your point about Tom, I understand. The real point is that he rides his starters more than anyone else, which is what the stat really shows. Is that the complaints Bulls & Wolves fans had about him playing starters too much holds true for us too, whether or not the talent was good or bad it didn't really matter because he was going to play his bench. We're having the same exact problems the Bulls and Wolves had with him, 3 different teams with the same issues, it's the coach.

18th is an outlier based on all those other years where his teams have benches that basically don't play, you're focused on that and not all the years his teams rank 25 or higher.

I’m not disagreeing about riding his starters more than anyone else and that would likely be the case no matter what but I also don’t think it would be nearly this egregious if we had a better bench. This is probably the worst bench we’ve had since he took over the head coaching job. Derrick Rose and Burks were better. Anything with Quickley was better. This is an exceptionally dire situation.

BS. THIBS is the problem. Period.