PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[Fat Kat]

Start Precious at PF and bring Hart off the bench.

In the Sixers “Fo! Fo! Fo!” Championship season, Marc Iavaroni started and All Star Bobby Jones came off the bench.

Precious should play less, not more. He’s awful.

[spree2kawhi]

Start Precious at PF and bring Hart off the bench.

In the Sixers “Fo! Fo! Fo!” Championship season, Marc Iavaroni started and All Star Bobby Jones came off the bench.

Precious should play less, not more. He’s awful.

While I like Precious and have thought the same before (Hart off the bench), I agree that Achiuwa has not played too well. He missed some rotations here and there and also hasn’t shown the greatest hands around the rim, fumbling many passes. Given how good he looked last year, I thought he’d be better tbh…

[HEZI]

In other words you think the team would be better off playing all starters 48 mins every game? Got it!



Cole Anthony had been barely in rotation for a few weeks, then injury happened to Suggs and he played and dropped 24 in this game. Even when his own coach Moshley thought Cole sucked when he gave him playing time, he produced.

Most NBA players when they're given playing time and trust, they produce.

Under coaches like Moshley, Daignault, Spo, Lue, aka the real coaches players like Huk, Kolek would be in rotation. They all can play, even Pac.

Take more risks, that's how the team you lead can thrive. Playing it safe is the riskiest move you can take, and we're all now paying for it dearly.

No I have this crazy idea, check it out. So there’s this guy who has the power to make these things called trades, right? You won’t believe it but he’s the same guy who brought in the starting lineup. So his job is to recognize the weakness of the bench and actually do something about it by making a trade. So until that happens, there are going to be some bad losses and bumps along the way. Crazy I know but that’s what other teams are doing so we just have to wait our turn

Riiiiight. It’s not the coaches responsibility to learn how to best utilize and maximize the players in front of him. His job is sit on his hands, run starters into the ground, and hope the front office plops some all stars on the bench.

Go take a look at the Memphis roster. The team that is 24-13, same as us, yet they average the most bench minutes and most bench scoring in the league. You tell me if thibs would have that team 24-13.

Great comparison, the worst bench in the league vs one of the deepest teams in the league that has actual talent, size and versatility throughout the roster. It’s one thing to maximize what you have, which Thibs has done his entire coaching career, and it’s another thing to turn turd into gold.

[Wildcat]

Knicks are too deep in the season for a Hart to the bench movement. I really wanted that myself, honestly. One of the things that bothered me about the KAT trade is that it basically destroyed our depth because it meant without a shadow of the doubt that Hart -- who prior to the trade was going to lead the bench -- was going in as a starter.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Knicks are too deep in the season for a Hart to the bench movement. I really wanted that myself, honestly. One of the things that bothered me about the KAT trade is that it basically destroyed our depth because it meant without a shadow of the doubt that Hart -- who prior to the trade was going to lead the bench -- was going in as a starter.

Donte was going back to the bench

[Wildcat]

Knicks are too deep in the season for a Hart to the bench movement. I really wanted that myself, honestly. One of the things that bothered me about the KAT trade is that it basically destroyed our depth because it meant without a shadow of the doubt that Hart -- who prior to the trade was going to lead the bench -- was going in as a starter.

Donte was going back to the bench

Robinson/Randle/OG/Bridges/JB were the projected starters before the trade and Mitch update. Hart was never starting.

[Jeff Van Gully]

There are lots of reasonable discussion points lost in absolutes and hostility. Shame. Par for the course though.

I love thibs. I also don’t think it would be a bad idea to expand the rotation and have never argued against doing so. As I’ve said before (maybe once or twice in a thread or two… not per page per thread), it might be helpful for conversation to sketch out some of those ideal rotations. Not names and minutes.

It’s hard to not see some of the thibs detraction as a security blanket when every problem the team has is attributed to minutes distribution.

Keeping players fresh is a good thing to be concerned with. Developing familiarity in groups and roles is as well. Etc.

Touch some grass, some of you. Lot more games to go.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Knicks are too deep in the season for a Hart to the bench movement. I really wanted that myself, honestly. One of the things that bothered me about the KAT trade is that it basically destroyed our depth because it meant without a shadow of the doubt that Hart -- who prior to the trade was going to lead the bench -- was going in as a starter.

Donte was going back to the bench

Robinson/Randle/OG/Bridges/JB were the projected starters before the trade and Mitch update. Hart was never starting.

I misunderstood. That’s right. Though we didn’t have a clear answer for the 5 with Mitch out. Sims vs small ball with hart was being discussed IIRC.

[Wildcat]

Donte was going back to the bench

Robinson/Randle/OG/Bridges/JB were the projected starters before the trade and Mitch update. Hart was never starting.

I misunderstood. That’s right. Though we didn’t have a clear answer for the 5 with Mitch out. Sims vs small ball with hart was being discussed IIRC.

Before the KAT trade, we were publicly told Mitch would be back in November, so the starting lineup was going to be Precious or Sims/Randle/OG/Bridges/JB. If I recall from all the quotes, it wasn't Randle as the starting Center, but he'd play Center minutes throughout the game where the small ball lineup was discussed.

[kNicksGmen]

random but knicks had 16 total assists after starting the game strong with 6 in less than 6 minutes.

with or without Kat the offense needs to move the ball to generate good looks but in thibs offense it's completely random with no set plays. the talent on this team carried the offense to be statistically elite despite it never passing the eye test for me (other than certain games or quarters where it did really look very very good).

we were a great 3 point shooting team despite not generating a lot of good open looks. something as simple as how rare it is for us to generate a good open catch and shoot 3 or middy for towns speaks volumes to the problems with this offense.

[Jeff Van Gully]

dp

[Wildcat]

random but knicks had 16 total assists after starting the game strong with 6 in less than 6 minutes.

with or without Kat the offense needs to move the ball to generate good looks but in thibs offense it's completely random with no set plays. the talent on this team carried the offense to be statistically elite despite it never passing the eye test for me (other than certain games or quarters where it did really look very very good).

we were a great 3 point shooting team despite not generating a lot of good open looks. something as simple as how rare it is for us to generate a good open catch and shoot 3 or middy for towns speaks volumes to the problems with this offense.

It's Thibs ball, unfortunately. We have capable cutters, I don't know why there isn't persistent player and ball movement. Only thing I can think of is a mix of Thibs ball and mid-ish season leg lag. JB's 3 PT shot being inconsistent probably doesn't help. I'm not going to look at the stat, but you can probably guess when he's off from 3 PT range, team doesn't shoot nearly the amount of t 3's they're expected to shoot.

[Fat Kat]

random but knicks had 16 total assists after starting the game strong with 6 in less than 6 minutes.

with or without Kat the offense needs to move the ball to generate good looks but in thibs offense it's completely random with no set plays. the talent on this team carried the offense to be statistically elite despite it never passing the eye test for me (other than certain games or quarters where it did really look very very good).

we were a great 3 point shooting team despite not generating a lot of good open looks. something as simple as how rare it is for us to generate a good open catch and shoot 3 or middy for towns speaks volumes to the problems with this offense.

None of this is remotely true. The problems this game started with Sims not being able to execute a simple DHO, make a layup and clogging the paint because his man could literally ignore him.

Saying that this team has no set plays is just ridiculous. It’s okay for fans to casually watch without knowing what’s going on, but don’t pretend to.

[kNicksGmen]

random but knicks had 16 total assists after starting the game strong with 6 in less than 6 minutes.

with or without Kat the offense needs to move the ball to generate good looks but in thibs offense it's completely random with no set plays. the talent on this team carried the offense to be statistically elite despite it never passing the eye test for me (other than certain games or quarters where it did really look very very good).

we were a great 3 point shooting team despite not generating a lot of good open looks. something as simple as how rare it is for us to generate a good open catch and shoot 3 or middy for towns speaks volumes to the problems with this offense.

It's Thibs ball, unfortunately. We have capable cutters, I don't know why there isn't persistent player and ball movement. Only thing I can think of is a mix of Thibs ball and mid-ish season leg lag. JB's 3 PT shot being inconsistent probably doesn't help. I'm not going to look at the stat, but you can probably guess when he's off from 3 PT range, team doesn't shoot nearly the amount of t 3's they're expected to shoot.

fatigue is a big part of it i think but it's also if there is no set play dictating that a player is absolutely supposed to cut, it's up to the player to do it based on feel or what the defense does. so if a player is tired they can just stand in the corner and get away with it. i agree that brunson being off is a major issue that impacts everything. not just his 3pt shot but teams are legit guarding him with 1 guy often and he's not creating an advantage. last year he would dominate when guarded 1 on 1 forcing teams to often double which opened things up.

random but knicks had 16 total assists after starting the game strong with 6 in less than 6 minutes.

with or without Kat the offense needs to move the ball to generate good looks but in thibs offense it's completely random with no set plays. the talent on this team carried the offense to be statistically elite despite it never passing the eye test for me (other than certain games or quarters where it did really look very very good).

we were a great 3 point shooting team despite not generating a lot of good open looks. something as simple as how rare it is for us to generate a good open catch and shoot 3 or middy for towns speaks volumes to the problems with this offense.

None of this is remotely true. The problems this game started with Sims not being able to execute a simple DHO, make a layup and clogging the paint because his man could literally ignore him.

Saying that this team has no set plays is just ridiculous. It’s okay for fans to casually watch without knowing what’s going on, but don’t pretend to.

it depends what you define as a set play. thibs offense is very much a read and react offense. so by "set play" if you mean the players space to their "set" spots and then brunson runs a basic PnR or the big does a DHO - if you count that as a set then sure, they run "sets". What I refer to as a set is much more defined and structured. for example right as the pick gets 1-5 the 4 man cuts and 3 man flares and then there's a secondary back screen by the 2 man - that's a random example but it's a designed play where every single guy has a defined role and action with a predetermined goal.

The thibs offense is read and react. it's obvious watching it for years and nothing has changed. it's still way too heavily isolation. again if by "set" you count trying to get brunson on a switch or towns in the post on a mismatch and letting them go 1 on 1 - then yea i guess. maybe my wording isn't specific enough - that the offense isn't structured or creative enough in terms of the coaching dictating what it wants to accomplished as opposed to "let the defense tell you what to do with the ball" which more often than not leads to brunson pounding the rock the entire possession and then running into the paint for a contested floater while the other 4 guys stand behind the 3 point line and watch.

i feel they go through stretches where it looks and feels more organized and guys are flaring out for 3s on off ball screens etc. but it all fades away as the game goes on and turns into the same basic offense that overly emphasizes taking no risk to get up bad shots.

[Jeff Van Gully]

dp

[TKKnicks1]

I think it's JBs turn to sit next game. Something is just not right with this dude. His calf issue is probably much worse than is being told. Wouldn't be the first with the Knicks.

[kNicksGmen]

I said that this team has no identity.

The Magic, even with the injuries, still play very good defense and play with energy. That keeps them competitive.

We have nothing to fall back on.

the identify of this team should be an absolutely unstoppable offense headed by JB being a true star that teams have to double - and Towns as an elite shooting bigman. Teams should have to pick their poison to stop us.

instead brunson has been pretty bad for a lot of games and we don't even utilize kat other than his spacing helping others.

the other part of the identity should be a gritty team that hustles and at least tries to defense. failing there too.

[Wildcat]

I think it's JBs turn to sit next game. Something is just not right with this dude. His calf issue is probably much worse than is being told. Wouldn't be the first with the Knicks.

That calf issue is only recent, no? His shot has been wholly inconsistent all season along. I think he's like 4 for 44 from 3 point range in his last several games. That's mind boggling to me.

[Wildcat]

This is just one of those games this season that the energy was just off, man. Orlando is literally the Knicks of 24/25. They fight all game long. Knicks on the other hand, just this weird energy, man.

[Jeff Van Gully]

so, who on next GT?