NBA Trade Thread #11

[Infinity2152]

Lakers and Warriors would be brain dead to give up a FRP for Vuc. Putting him on a roster with aging/liability on-ball defenders (Curry, Lebron, Reaves) is a recipe for disaster. Trading the FRP really ruins their already limited flexibility. I’d see them draw the line at a swap (maybe 2, if lucky).

If Lonzo is sent in the package too, then it makes more sense. But we’d have to take back $40M.

Gambling a FRP on Jimmy would be far more worthwhile for them. I almost think that Jalen Smith could actually net the late FRP that Vuc could not. Younger, cheaper, more athletic, 3P range.

I think we get a pair of 2nds, 1-2 pick swaps (kinda pointless until 2028 tbh, we’ll be worse indefinitely) and filler salary if Warriors do a deal (Moody/Kyle). Lakers would send Vanderbilt/Vincent.

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

[jnrjr79]

Lakers and Warriors would be brain dead to give up a FRP for Vuc. Putting him on a roster with aging/liability on-ball defenders (Curry, Lebron, Reaves) is a recipe for disaster. Trading the FRP really ruins their already limited flexibility. I’d see them draw the line at a swap (maybe 2, if lucky).

If Lonzo is sent in the package too, then it makes more sense. But we’d have to take back $40M.

Gambling a FRP on Jimmy would be far more worthwhile for them. I almost think that Jalen Smith could actually net the late FRP that Vuc could not. Younger, cheaper, more athletic, 3P range.

I think we get a pair of 2nds, 1-2 pick swaps (kinda pointless until 2028 tbh, we’ll be worse indefinitely) and filler salary if Warriors do a deal (Moody/Kyle). Lakers would send Vanderbilt/Vincent.

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

Agreed. These teams should be making whatever moves they can to win with their aging guys. And their GMs may not care about a 2031 pick as much, when they probably won't still be the GM.

[Guru]

Lakers and Warriors would be brain dead to give up a FRP for Vuc. Putting him on a roster with aging/liability on-ball defenders (Curry, Lebron, Reaves) is a recipe for disaster. Trading the FRP really ruins their already limited flexibility. I’d see them draw the line at a swap (maybe 2, if lucky).

If Lonzo is sent in the package too, then it makes more sense. But we’d have to take back $40M.

Gambling a FRP on Jimmy would be far more worthwhile for them. I almost think that Jalen Smith could actually net the late FRP that Vuc could not. Younger, cheaper, more athletic, 3P range.

I think we get a pair of 2nds, 1-2 pick swaps (kinda pointless until 2028 tbh, we’ll be worse indefinitely) and filler salary if Warriors do a deal (Moody/Kyle). Lakers would send Vanderbilt/Vincent.

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

Agreed. These teams should be making whatever moves they can to win with their aging guys. And their GMs may not care about a 2031 pick as much, when they probably won't still be the GM.

Essentially there should be an arms race to the finish line and then when these vets are done let it burn down and rebuild.

[MrSparkle]

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

Agreed. These teams should be making whatever moves they can to win with their aging guys. And their GMs may not care about a 2031 pick as much, when they probably won't still be the GM.

Essentially there should be an arms race to the finish line and then when these vets are done let it burn down and rebuild.

These teams have a zero.1% chance of beating OKC… let alone the rest of the tough competition in the West. They’re barely hanging onto the play-in. Their ownership is not going to screw their 2030s up by going for Vuc or Zach with 2029+ FRPs. Period. Zion or even Ingram? Sure. You can start a conversation.

Lebron James sells seats like hot cakes. All they want to do is make it to the 1st round at minimum for ticket sales. They know he’s not leading them tona ring anymore, unless a superstar comes in. They can make minor moves. They’re not going to send out that 29 FRP unless a freak is coming back (maybe Zion).

[Infinity2152]

OKC takes an injury to Holgrem or SGA, it's a whole different ball game. Or they could have a bad series. Or Lebron could have a historic series because, Lebron. They are not keeping Lebron and AD to make it to the first round of the playoffs, they'll sell tickets regardless of them. It's the Lake Show. They could move Lebron and AD and bring in younger stars that will sell tickets pretty easily.

Think you're really overstating OKCs dominance. Number of veteran teams could beat them in a series, Lakers could make it to the ship with the right team without even seeing them. Last time OKC made the Finals was 2012. Most of their players have been there for years, no ring.

[jnrjr79]

Agreed. These teams should be making whatever moves they can to win with their aging guys. And their GMs may not care about a 2031 pick as much, when they probably won't still be the GM.

Essentially there should be an arms race to the finish line and then when these vets are done let it burn down and rebuild.

These teams have a zero.1% chance of beating OKC… let alone the rest of the tough competition in the West. They’re barely hanging onto the play-in. Their ownership is not going to screw their 2030s up by going for Vuc or Zach with 2029+ FRPs. Period. Zion or even Ingram? Sure. You can start a conversation.

Lebron James sells seats like hot cakes. All they want to do is make it to the 1st round at minimum for ticket sales. They know he’s not leading them tona ring anymore, unless a superstar comes in. They can make minor moves. They’re not going to send out that 29 FRP unless a freak is coming back (maybe Zion).

If these teams have given up on their windows of contention, then they should be selling stars for draft picks to get moving on the next rebuild. Doing nothing is their worst option.

[MrSparkle]

Essentially there should be an arms race to the finish line and then when these vets are done let it burn down and rebuild.

These teams have a zero.1% chance of beating OKC… let alone the rest of the tough competition in the West. They’re barely hanging onto the play-in. Their ownership is not going to screw their 2030s up by going for Vuc or Zach with 2029+ FRPs. Period. Zion or even Ingram? Sure. You can start a conversation.

Lebron James sells seats like hot cakes. All they want to do is make it to the 1st round at minimum for ticket sales. They know he’s not leading them tona ring anymore, unless a superstar comes in. They can make minor moves. They’re not going to send out that 29 FRP unless a freak is coming back (maybe Zion).

If these teams have given up on their windows of contention, then they should be selling stars for draft picks to get moving on the next rebuild. Doing nothing is their worst option.

Sure. But I'd argue trading a 2029 FRP for Vuc or Zach is an even worse option.

If they can get away with sending their trash for either guy (not a 2029 FRP, when Lebron is going to be 44yo), then yes... I understand their interest. I'm not sure I see AK accepting pure trash. What would AK/we-the-fans settle on? A top-10 protected 2029 FRP? He's not getting a dinosaur contender's unprotected pick 5y from now for Vuc (nor Zach), and you're not going to convince Pelinka nor Dunleavy that it's a good idea.

I don't even think GSW would cough up an expiring Kuminga. I think it'd literally be Moody, Kyle Anderson and 2 SRPs. Maybe a (nearly pointless) swap or two. And LAL won't part with rotation players or Knecht.. they need every guy - it'll be Gabe Vincent and Kyle Anderson. Maybe Rui, but no chance he comes with 2029 FRP.

Vuc is a defensive albatross. Whatever they gain in offensive spacing, these 2 unathletic teams are going to get murdered on points in the paint and 3P protection. Reaves, Uncle Lebron, Knecht... Uncle Curry, Uncle Dray, Schroder, Hield... Throw Vuc into those lineups, and you've got the 2021-25 free-cheese Bulls.

[Infinity2152]

These teams have a zero.1% chance of beating OKC… let alone the rest of the tough competition in the West. They’re barely hanging onto the play-in. Their ownership is not going to screw their 2030s up by going for Vuc or Zach with 2029+ FRPs. Period. Zion or even Ingram? Sure. You can start a conversation.

Lebron James sells seats like hot cakes. All they want to do is make it to the 1st round at minimum for ticket sales. They know he’s not leading them tona ring anymore, unless a superstar comes in. They can make minor moves. They’re not going to send out that 29 FRP unless a freak is coming back (maybe Zion).

If these teams have given up on their windows of contention, then they should be selling stars for draft picks to get moving on the next rebuild. Doing nothing is their worst option.

Sure. But I'd argue trading a 2029 FRP for Vuc or Zach is an even worse option.

If they can get away with sending their trash for either guy (not a 2029 FRP, when Lebron is going to be 44yo), then yes... I understand their interest. I'm not sure I see AK accepting pure trash. What would AK/we-the-fans settle on? A top-10 protected 2029 FRP? He's not getting a dinosaur contender's unprotected pick 5y from now for Vuc (nor Zach), and you're not going to convince Pelinka nor Dunleavy that it's a good idea.

I don't even think GSW would cough up an expiring Kuminga. I think it'd literally be Moody, Kyle Anderson and 2 SRPs. Maybe a (nearly pointless) swap or two. And LAL won't part with rotation players or Knecht.. they need every guy - it'll be Gabe Vincent and Kyle Anderson. Maybe Rui, but no chance he comes with 2029 FRP.

Vuc is a defensive albatross. Whatever they gain in offensive spacing, these 2 unathletic teams are going to get murdered on points in the paint and 3P protection. Reaves, Uncle Lebron, Knecht... Uncle Curry, Uncle Dray, Schroder, Hield... Throw Vuc into those lineups, and you've got the 2021-25 free-cheese Bulls.

Question: if Vuc is so bad, why would the Lakers or anybody want him? General impression is he's worth a couple seconds minimum, maybe first, while the team trading for him takes on $20 mill. If the general impression of the league was the same as yours, shouldn't we have to add picks to move him, not get them?

Getting killed in points in the paint with Lebron, AD, and Vuc on the floor at the same time? That's the one defensive area they will NOT have to worry about, AD's a great post defender, Bron's a good help defender, and Vuc is big. Nobody's overpowering their front line. They just added DFS for defense and if they get Craig in the deal that's another vet defender. Vuc alone will increase their 3 pt output hugely, and he'll be getting the best looks he's had in his career. Vuc would probably be a rotational big 25-30 minutes, unless/until Bron or AD gets hurt. The crappy players from the Lakers and crappy first round pick don't get you a flawless starter. They can get you a flawed starter, capable of being an outstanding sixth man.

Give us an example of a player who's worth is around a Lakers top 10 protected first round pick 5 years from now. What level player can they get with that if it was a straight up pick for player trade? Trying to see where you place the value of that draft pick. It;s generally accepted picks are worth less the further out they are, regardless of where you think they may be years down the line.

[sco]

If these teams have given up on their windows of contention, then they should be selling stars for draft picks to get moving on the next rebuild. Doing nothing is their worst option.

Sure. But I'd argue trading a 2029 FRP for Vuc or Zach is an even worse option.

If they can get away with sending their trash for either guy (not a 2029 FRP, when Lebron is going to be 44yo), then yes... I understand their interest. I'm not sure I see AK accepting pure trash. What would AK/we-the-fans settle on? A top-10 protected 2029 FRP? He's not getting a dinosaur contender's unprotected pick 5y from now for Vuc (nor Zach), and you're not going to convince Pelinka nor Dunleavy that it's a good idea.

I don't even think GSW would cough up an expiring Kuminga. I think it'd literally be Moody, Kyle Anderson and 2 SRPs. Maybe a (nearly pointless) swap or two. And LAL won't part with rotation players or Knecht.. they need every guy - it'll be Gabe Vincent and Kyle Anderson. Maybe Rui, but no chance he comes with 2029 FRP.

Vuc is a defensive albatross. Whatever they gain in offensive spacing, these 2 unathletic teams are going to get murdered on points in the paint and 3P protection. Reaves, Uncle Lebron, Knecht... Uncle Curry, Uncle Dray, Schroder, Hield... Throw Vuc into those lineups, and you've got the 2021-25 free-cheese Bulls.

Question: if Vuc is so bad, why would the Lakers or anybody want him? General impression is he's worth a couple seconds minimum, maybe first, while the team trading for him takes on $20 mill. If the general impression of the league was the same as yours, shouldn't we have to add picks to move him, not get them?

Getting killed in points in the paint with Lebron, AD, and Vuc on the floor at the same time? That's the one defensive area they will NOT have to worry about, AD's a great post defender, Bron's a good help defender, and Vuc is big. Nobody's overpowering their front line. They just added DFS for defense and if they get Craig in the deal that's another vet defender. Vuc alone will increase their 3 pt output hugely, and he'll be getting the best looks he's had in his career. Vuc would probably be a rotational big 25-30 minutes, unless/until Bron or AD gets hurt. The crappy players from the Lakers and crappy first round pick don't get you a flawless starter. They can get you a flawed starter, capable of being an outstanding sixth man.

Give us an example of a player who's worth is around a Lakers top 10 protected first round pick 5 years from now. What level player can they get with that if it was a straight up pick for player trade? Trying to see where you place the value of that draft pick. It;s generally accepted picks are worth less the further out they are, regardless of where you think they may be years down the line.

It's just the market. Players making around $20M who are over 30 and not stars are seem to be "worth" expirings and 2nds. There is the expectation that the teams trading their "good" players are doing so to get bad and letting them get worse and get out of a year of a contract is the implied value.

Last year when we tried, we couldn't even "give" Vuc away, so this is a big increase in value.

Also, there was the recent rumor that the Bulls have dropped their first round pick asking price for Vuc.

First round picks are viewed as gold around the league (maybe bitcoin is a better reference)...it's not that they ultimately become good players, but there's that 1 in 20 chance (or whatever %). Also, IMO their main value is to trade for allstars as part of a 3 1sts for a star trade. IMO, in the league today, there are the stars and a bunch of other guys who are commodities.

[Infinity2152]

Sure. But I'd argue trading a 2029 FRP for Vuc or Zach is an even worse option.

If they can get away with sending their trash for either guy (not a 2029 FRP, when Lebron is going to be 44yo), then yes... I understand their interest. I'm not sure I see AK accepting pure trash. What would AK/we-the-fans settle on? A top-10 protected 2029 FRP? He's not getting a dinosaur contender's unprotected pick 5y from now for Vuc (nor Zach), and you're not going to convince Pelinka nor Dunleavy that it's a good idea.

I don't even think GSW would cough up an expiring Kuminga. I think it'd literally be Moody, Kyle Anderson and 2 SRPs. Maybe a (nearly pointless) swap or two. And LAL won't part with rotation players or Knecht.. they need every guy - it'll be Gabe Vincent and Kyle Anderson. Maybe Rui, but no chance he comes with 2029 FRP.

Vuc is a defensive albatross. Whatever they gain in offensive spacing, these 2 unathletic teams are going to get murdered on points in the paint and 3P protection. Reaves, Uncle Lebron, Knecht... Uncle Curry, Uncle Dray, Schroder, Hield... Throw Vuc into those lineups, and you've got the 2021-25 free-cheese Bulls.

Question: if Vuc is so bad, why would the Lakers or anybody want him? General impression is he's worth a couple seconds minimum, maybe first, while the team trading for him takes on $20 mill. If the general impression of the league was the same as yours, shouldn't we have to add picks to move him, not get them?

Getting killed in points in the paint with Lebron, AD, and Vuc on the floor at the same time? That's the one defensive area they will NOT have to worry about, AD's a great post defender, Bron's a good help defender, and Vuc is big. Nobody's overpowering their front line. They just added DFS for defense and if they get Craig in the deal that's another vet defender. Vuc alone will increase their 3 pt output hugely, and he'll be getting the best looks he's had in his career. Vuc would probably be a rotational big 25-30 minutes, unless/until Bron or AD gets hurt. The crappy players from the Lakers and crappy first round pick don't get you a flawless starter. They can get you a flawed starter, capable of being an outstanding sixth man.

Give us an example of a player who's worth is around a Lakers top 10 protected first round pick 5 years from now. What level player can they get with that if it was a straight up pick for player trade? Trying to see where you place the value of that draft pick. It;s generally accepted picks are worth less the further out they are, regardless of where you think they may be years down the line.

It's just the market. Players making around $20M who are over 30 and not stars are seem to be "worth" expirings and 2nds. There is the expectation that the teams trading their "good" players are doing so to get bad and letting them get worse and get out of a year of a contract is the implied value.

Last year when we tried, we couldn't even "give" Vuc away, so this is a big increase in value.

Also, there was the recent rumor that the Bulls have dropped their first round pick asking price for Vuc.

First round picks are viewed as gold around the league (maybe bitcoin is a better reference)...it's not that they ultimately become good players, but there's that 1 in 20 chance (or whatever %). Also, IMO their main value is to trade for allstars as part of a 3 1sts for a star trade. IMO, in the league today, there are the stars and a bunch of other guys who are commodities.

I'm saying, there seems to be some perception that whatever team Vuc goes to, he's going to make that team worse. No team would take on a 2 yrs $40 mill reamaining contract for expirings to make their team worse, let alone add even one second round pick for the privilege. Vuc would not be the defensive problem he's been on the Bulls with many other teams, he's had Pat Will (injured a lot), undersized random PFs, and no defense guards and wings surrounding him in Chicago.

There have been a ton of three point shooting big men with defense just as bad as Vuc who have had long great NBA careers, and most don't rebound nearly as well. He's not somebody you build around or count on to carry the team, but he can be a big part of a good team.

Somehow, the Bulls keep winning too many games with this roster, but the Lakers can't win with him. People are desperate to trade Vuc because he's helping us win too much.

[dougthonus]

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

They have to think whatever move they make moves the needle for them if they give up the last assets in their war chest. I'm not sure anyone feels that way about Vuc, and fundamentally, that is the problem. Their worst case scenario is not wasting LeBron and AD's last year. Their worst case scenario is giving up 2031 first and still wasting LeBron and AD's last year.

I don't know if we would do it, but the trade that makes sense potentially for us is:
Vanderbilt + Vincent + 2031 1st unprotected for Vuc + Craig

Vandy just signed a long extension and has been out all year, I don't know if his injury situation is really bad long term, and if he should be viewed as bad salary now or if next year he'd be a fine back up PF for us. Vincent seems like dead salary for one more year for sure. The unprotected 2031 seems like a really high upside asset, the Lakers are going to have a really hard time rebuilding by 2031, and LeBron's obviously gone by then and AD is also probably gone by then.

The move probably makes the Lakers better for this year and next year without giving up anyone in their rotation that they need and removing potentially bad salary from their books in the process. I think the bigger question for them is can they get something better for a similar package or can they negotiate protections on the pick or do they simply think its not enough and they won't take the risk regardless.

[Infinity2152]

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

They have to think whatever move they make moves the needle for them if they give up the last assets in their war chest. I'm not sure anyone feels that way about Vuc, and fundamentally, that is the problem. Their worst case scenario is not wasting LeBron and AD's last year. Their worst case scenario is giving up 2031 first and still wasting LeBron and AD's last year.

I don't know if we would do it, but the trade that makes sense potentially for us is:
Vanderbilt + Vincent + 2031 1st unprotected for Vuc + Craig

Vandy just signed a long extension and has been out all year, I don't know if his injury situation is really bad long term, and if he should be viewed as bad salary now or if next year he'd be a fine back up PF for us. Vincent seems like dead salary for one more year for sure. The unprotected 2031 seems like a really high upside asset, the Lakers are going to have a really hard time rebuilding by 2031, and LeBron's obviously gone by then and AD is also probably gone by then.

The move probably makes the Lakers better for this year and next year without giving up anyone in their rotation that they need and removing potentially bad salary from their books in the process. I think the bigger question for them is can they get something better for a similar package or can they negotiate protections on the pick or do they simply think its not enough and they won't take the risk regardless.

Saw an article said GM's are waiting for Bulls to flinch, make a mistake. I believe them. Getting Vandy and Vincent are horrible. It doesn't clear cap, which would be one of the main points of a Vuc trade. We get worse players for the same money, and have no center.

That 2031 pick sounds shaky and of little value, too. Lebron will probably have been long gone. Lakers are a prime free agent destination, maybe number 1. Team is just as likely to be mid or good as it is bad. They'll have another max free agent or two. Doubt the most popular franchise will be sitting at the bottom long. Rebuild may start 2026.

2031 first sounds great, but in trade value 2025, 2026,2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 firsts are all more valuable. That drops it a lot. Most picks traded are protected, if so drop the value even more. Just don't trade with the Lakers if we can't get a good deal. Most teams have picks available way before 2031.

[jnrjr79]

Lakers and Warriors would have to be brain dead worrying about future picks while paying almost $200 mill in salary with aging top tier superstars and a bunch of young players on their rosters already who can't get minutes. the window with Lebron and Curry is closing.

What's the alternative? Do nothing, get knocked out in the first round? Waste a year of Lebron and AD for a pick 5 years down the line? They would have to think the lineup could work of course, unlike your dismal prediction. But preserving AD's and Lebron's minutes till playoffs is worth something. The West has a ton of actual bigs. Their team doesn't really need to play a PG with Lebron starting. Christie's shooting 38% from three and they have Knect and Reaves. Again, adding Craig is great for a playoff push and Carter could be useful. They can keep Vanderbilt and Vincent and a couple of seconds, keep losing with that. Not that desperate to move Vuc.

Of course gambling a first round on Jimmy would be way more helpful. He costs more than twice as much, the talent/depth cost will be much higher, and they have to beat the best offer the Heat get for Jimmy. It's that easy. A future Lakers first ain't even the starting point of a Jimmy Butler trade. Also looking for a max contract this summer.

Agree if Lonzo goes, it makes much more sense. They'd actually have a complete team.

They have to think whatever move they make moves the needle for them if they give up the last assets in their war chest. I'm not sure anyone feels that way about Vuc, and fundamentally, that is the problem. Their worst case scenario is not wasting LeBron and AD's last year. Their worst case scenario is giving up 2031 first and still wasting LeBron and AD's last year.

I don't know if we would do it, but the trade that makes sense potentially for us is:
Vanderbilt + Vincent + 2031 1st unprotected for Vuc + Craig

Vandy just signed a long extension and has been out all year, I don't know if his injury situation is really bad long term, and if he should be viewed as bad salary now or if next year he'd be a fine back up PF for us. Vincent seems like dead salary for one more year for sure. The unprotected 2031 seems like a really high upside asset, the Lakers are going to have a really hard time rebuilding by 2031, and LeBron's obviously gone by then and AD is also probably gone by then.

The move probably makes the Lakers better for this year and next year without giving up anyone in their rotation that they need and removing potentially bad salary from their books in the process. I think the bigger question for them is can they get something better for a similar package or can they negotiate protections on the pick or do they simply think its not enough and they won't take the risk regardless.

Saw an article said GM's are waiting for Bulls to flinch, make a mistake. I believe them. Getting Vandy and Vincent are horrible. It doesn't clear cap, which would be one of the main points of a Vuc trade. We get worse players for the same money, and have no center.

That 2031 pick sounds shaky and of little value, too. Lebron will probably have been long gone. Lakers are a prime free agent destination, maybe number 1. Team is just as likely to be mid or good as it is bad. They'll have another max free agent or two. Doubt the most popular franchise will be sitting at the bottom long. Rebuild may start 2026.

2031 first sounds great, but in trade value 2025, 2026,2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 firsts are all more valuable. That drops it a lot. Most picks traded are protected, if so drop the value even more. Just don't trade with the Lakers if we can't get a good deal. Most teams have picks available way before 2031.

Yeah, a lot of people are screaming for the Bulls to make moves now, rather than at the deadline, to try to keep the pick, but my guess is this is going to be a scenario where the Bulls are waiting for teams to make their lsat, best offers on Vooch (and maybe Zach) before pulling the trigger.

[dougthonus]

Saw an article said GM's are waiting for Bulls to flinch, make a mistake. I believe them. Getting Vandy and Vincent are horrible. It doesn't clear cap, which would be one of the main points of a Vuc trade. We get worse players for the same money, and have no center.

That 2031 pick sounds shaky and of little value, too. Lebron will probably have been long gone. Lakers are a prime free agent destination, maybe number 1. Team is just as likely to be mid or good as it is bad. They'll have another max free agent or two. Doubt the most popular franchise will be sitting at the bottom long. Rebuild may start 2026.

2031 first sounds great, but in trade value 2025, 2026,2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 firsts are all more valuable. That drops it a lot. Most picks traded are protected, if so drop the value even more. Just don't trade with the Lakers if we can't get a good deal. Most teams have picks available way before 2031.

For the Bulls, it would help them secure their 2025 pick this year.

From a trade value perspective, I would guess the 2031 pick is more valuable than the 2025 and 2026 pick from the Lakers for sure, and perhaps even the 2027 pick. I wouldn't be so sure about the Lakers ability to rebuild as you are, yes, there is a chance they could sign a max FA out of no where, but they have so few assets to build with.

When LeBron came, they had Ingram, Ball, and Hart on the roster on rookie deals. If Ball had stayed healthy, those 3 + LeBron might be just as good or better than the Lakers are currently. They had a ton of trade assets. That is absolutely not going to be the case this time around. The Lakers were bad for a pretty long time between the end of the Kobe era and when LeBron got here, that's why they had some of those high lottery picks. The fact that they don't control their own picks for most of the next four years means they also have no upside in the draft to turn things around and given they have no trade assets, their only method is FA.

That's a really hard thing to pull off if you only got one leg of the three legged stool to work with. It's not to say it's impossible, just that I would guess the odds of really bad are much better than the odds of good and moderately better that the odds of mid. If you are the Bulls and you want to take a high upside swing, this seems fine to me.

Also, while the move doesn't clear a lot of space, we're not going to be a cap space team anyway, and starting next year Vandy may be a fine contract to have on the books and a good contributor that feels a need as we currently have a big hole at his position. Vincent is probably dead salary, but he's also only got one year left.

I have a hard time coming up with a trade that offers more upside than that trade, and I doubt the Lakers would even do that one to be honest. Most of the rumors around Vuc are expiring and 2nd rounder(s) from what I gather.

[jnrjr79]

Saw an article said GM's are waiting for Bulls to flinch, make a mistake. I believe them. Getting Vandy and Vincent are horrible. It doesn't clear cap, which would be one of the main points of a Vuc trade. We get worse players for the same money, and have no center.

That 2031 pick sounds shaky and of little value, too. Lebron will probably have been long gone. Lakers are a prime free agent destination, maybe number 1. Team is just as likely to be mid or good as it is bad. They'll have another max free agent or two. Doubt the most popular franchise will be sitting at the bottom long. Rebuild may start 2026.

2031 first sounds great, but in trade value 2025, 2026,2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 firsts are all more valuable. That drops it a lot. Most picks traded are protected, if so drop the value even more. Just don't trade with the Lakers if we can't get a good deal. Most teams have picks available way before 2031.

For the Bulls, it would help them secure their 2025 pick this year.

From a trade value perspective, I would guess the 2031 pick is more valuable than the 2025 and 2026 pick from the Lakers for sure, and perhaps even the 2027 pick. I wouldn't be so sure about the Lakers ability to rebuild as you are, yes, there is a chance they could sign a max FA out of no where, but they have so few assets to build with.

When LeBron came, they had Ingram, Ball, and Hart on the roster on rookie deals. If Ball had stayed healthy, those 3 + LeBron might be just as good or better than the Lakers are currently. They had a ton of trade assets. That is absolutely not going to be the case this time around. The Lakers were bad for a pretty long time between the end of the Kobe era and when LeBron got here, that's why they had some of those high lottery picks. The fact that they don't control their own picks for most of the next four years means they also have no upside in the draft to turn things around and given they have no trade assets, their only method is FA.

That's a really hard thing to pull off if you only got one leg of the three legged stool to work with. It's not to say it's impossible, just that I would guess the odds of really bad are much better than the odds of good and moderately better that the odds of mid. If you are the Bulls and you want to take a high upside swing, this seems fine to me.

Also, while the move doesn't clear a lot of space, we're not going to be a cap space team anyway, and starting next year Vandy may be a fine contract to have on the books and a good contributor that feels a need as we currently have a big hole at his position. Vincent is probably dead salary, but he's also only got one year left.

I have a hard time coming up with a trade that offers more upside than that trade, and I doubt the Lakers would even do that one to be honest. Most of the rumors around Vuc are expiring and 2nd rounder(s) from what I gather.

Yeah, if LeBron retires after this season, then it seems the Lakers have two options: try to miraculously build around Davis via free agency or trade Davis for a bunch of draft capital to try to replenish the war chest. It won't be easy.

[ChettheJet]

This is an interesting list. The Bulls of course have THT as their decision and he seems to contribute

https://www.spotrac.com/news/_/id/2567/2025-nba-contract-guarantees-to-watch

Bruno Fernando already released. If there's a Vuc trade, Bruno and someone else wold give the Bulls a trio at the center spot to finish the year.

Orlando Robinson, bench material


Not much to read into the Spurs game but Billy kept the rotation short. Sometimes that's a hint that a trade is coming. THT and Carter didn't play, Ayo and Craig in street clothes Terry very limited minutes, Matas, Phillips, Smith and Lonzo were it.

[Infinity2152]

Saw an article said GM's are waiting for Bulls to flinch, make a mistake. I believe them. Getting Vandy and Vincent are horrible. It doesn't clear cap, which would be one of the main points of a Vuc trade. We get worse players for the same money, and have no center.

That 2031 pick sounds shaky and of little value, too. Lebron will probably have been long gone. Lakers are a prime free agent destination, maybe number 1. Team is just as likely to be mid or good as it is bad. They'll have another max free agent or two. Doubt the most popular franchise will be sitting at the bottom long. Rebuild may start 2026.

2031 first sounds great, but in trade value 2025, 2026,2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 firsts are all more valuable. That drops it a lot. Most picks traded are protected, if so drop the value even more. Just don't trade with the Lakers if we can't get a good deal. Most teams have picks available way before 2031.

For the Bulls, it would help them secure their 2025 pick this year.

From a trade value perspective, I would guess the 2031 pick is more valuable than the 2025 and 2026 pick from the Lakers for sure, and perhaps even the 2027 pick. I wouldn't be so sure about the Lakers ability to rebuild as you are, yes, there is a chance they could sign a max FA out of no where, but they have so few assets to build with.

When LeBron came, they had Ingram, Ball, and Hart on the roster on rookie deals. If Ball had stayed healthy, those 3 + LeBron might be just as good or better than the Lakers are currently. They had a ton of trade assets. That is absolutely not going to be the case this time around. The Lakers were bad for a pretty long time between the end of the Kobe era and when LeBron got here, that's why they had some of those high lottery picks. The fact that they don't control their own picks for most of the next four years means they also have no upside in the draft to turn things around and given they have no trade assets, their only method is FA.

That's a really hard thing to pull off if you only got one leg of the three legged stool to work with. It's not to say it's impossible, just that I would guess the odds of really bad are much better than the odds of good and moderately better that the odds of mid. If you are the Bulls and you want to take a high upside swing, this seems fine to me.

Also, while the move doesn't clear a lot of space, we're not going to be a cap space team anyway, and starting next year Vandy may be a fine contract to have on the books and a good contributor that feels a need as we currently have a big hole at his position. Vincent is probably dead salary, but he's also only got one year left.

I have a hard time coming up with a trade that offers more upside than that trade, and I doubt the Lakers would even do that one to be honest. Most of the rumors around Vuc are expiring and 2nd rounder(s) from what I gather.

Vincent makes 11.5 mill next year. Vanderbilt makes 11.6 mill next year. Vucevic makes 21.5. We're actually losing cap in this deal and receiving two bench players, one injured, for our starter. The argument is that we should do this without getting the 2031 pick, why on earth would we do it then? Getting worse players, adding cap to a team that's 17-19 to tank? There are 9 teams below us now, like 6 more teams 1-2 wins better, and the Heat are about to lose Butler.

Again, if Vuc is so good we need to trade him in order to lose more, how does he have no value? It's one or the other, either he's good and should have trade value, or he's bad and we should keep him to help the tank. The Lakers players are not expiring, don't think that makes them better, it makes them worse. You could sign an equivalent or better free agent this summer with that money. Or pay Giddey. Would rather have the expiring players, sometimes they're decent and worth re-signing. Vandy plays the same position as Pat and Matas currently and we haven't hit the draft, we may draft a PF.

[sco]

Saw an article said GM's are waiting for Bulls to flinch, make a mistake. I believe them. Getting Vandy and Vincent are horrible. It doesn't clear cap, which would be one of the main points of a Vuc trade. We get worse players for the same money, and have no center.

That 2031 pick sounds shaky and of little value, too. Lebron will probably have been long gone. Lakers are a prime free agent destination, maybe number 1. Team is just as likely to be mid or good as it is bad. They'll have another max free agent or two. Doubt the most popular franchise will be sitting at the bottom long. Rebuild may start 2026.

2031 first sounds great, but in trade value 2025, 2026,2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 firsts are all more valuable. That drops it a lot. Most picks traded are protected, if so drop the value even more. Just don't trade with the Lakers if we can't get a good deal. Most teams have picks available way before 2031.

For the Bulls, it would help them secure their 2025 pick this year.

From a trade value perspective, I would guess the 2031 pick is more valuable than the 2025 and 2026 pick from the Lakers for sure, and perhaps even the 2027 pick. I wouldn't be so sure about the Lakers ability to rebuild as you are, yes, there is a chance they could sign a max FA out of no where, but they have so few assets to build with.

When LeBron came, they had Ingram, Ball, and Hart on the roster on rookie deals. If Ball had stayed healthy, those 3 + LeBron might be just as good or better than the Lakers are currently. They had a ton of trade assets. That is absolutely not going to be the case this time around. The Lakers were bad for a pretty long time between the end of the Kobe era and when LeBron got here, that's why they had some of those high lottery picks. The fact that they don't control their own picks for most of the next four years means they also have no upside in the draft to turn things around and given they have no trade assets, their only method is FA.

That's a really hard thing to pull off if you only got one leg of the three legged stool to work with. It's not to say it's impossible, just that I would guess the odds of really bad are much better than the odds of good and moderately better that the odds of mid. If you are the Bulls and you want to take a high upside swing, this seems fine to me.

Also, while the move doesn't clear a lot of space, we're not going to be a cap space team anyway, and starting next year Vandy may be a fine contract to have on the books and a good contributor that feels a need as we currently have a big hole at his position. Vincent is probably dead salary, but he's also only got one year left.

I have a hard time coming up with a trade that offers more upside than that trade, and I doubt the Lakers would even do that one to be honest. Most of the rumors around Vuc are expiring and 2nd rounder(s) from what I gather.

Vincent makes 11.5 mill next year. Vanderbilt makes 11.6 mill next year. Vucevic makes 21.5. We're actually losing cap in this deal and receiving two bench players, one injured, for our starter. The argument is that we should do this without getting the 2031 pick, why on earth would we do it then? Getting worse players, adding cap to a team that's 17-19 to tank? There are 9 teams below us now, like 6 more teams 1-2 wins better, and the Heat are about to lose Butler.

Again, if Vuc is so good we need to trade him in order to lose more, how does he have no value? It's one or the other, either he's good and should have trade value, or he's bad and we should keep him to help the tank. The Lakers players are not expiring, don't think that makes them better, it makes them worse. You could sign an equivalent or better free agent this summer with that money. Or pay Giddey. Would rather have the expiring players, sometimes they're decent and worth re-signing. Vandy plays the same position as Pat and Matas currently and we haven't hit the draft, we may draft a PF.

I'm a big fan of Vandy, but that was as a PF to play next to Vuc. He's coming off surgery on both feet (as we know, a risky surgery to come back from). That said, I think he's due back soon. If he were healthy, the appeal would be that it would allow us to trade Pat for value.

[Infinity2152]

Don't see how keeping Vuc hurts us in the short term, vs getting virtually nothing back. Even if Vandy is healthy, he's probably around his contract value. Having him vs $11.6 cap space next season, I'm taking the cap space. I could sign a player Vandy's level that's not coming off surgery.

There are three types of teams, imo.
Win now: Lots of vet players, over the cap, trade young players and picks for win now players, short term horizon

Middle teams: Most of the league; one or two high tier players (sometimes vets), some good young players, decent amount of picks, keep getting better slowly, build organically as opportunities arise. Medium-long term horizon, not trying to maximize squad now. Could get to the next level with a trade or thru draft. Should be patient with trades.

Rebuilding teams: Dump stars and vets for picks and young players/expirings. Lose for years and don't care. Hopefully 5-6 years down the line, you've drafted a gamechanger or two and rebuilt the entire team to fit them. Can get a great cap situation, so you could have great flexibility to speed up the rebuild in about 3 years usually, if you've drafted that player and your city is a FA destination.

Options two and three require luck to move forward, option 3 much more so. Need a high draft pick and also need to draft correctly with that pick. The other problem with that is there are multiple great players in every draft and great young players already in the league. So when you draft the next Trae young, there's also the next Luka in the draft as well as the current Luka, Wemby, etc. This strategy requires you to draft a Lebron/Luka/Wemby MVP level player, not just a star.

Drafting a 1A is important, building a good team is more important. Because there are a lot of 1A's with good teams around them.

[sco]

Don't see how keeping Vuc hurts us in the short term, vs getting virtually nothing back. Even if Vandy is healthy, he's probably around his contract value. Having him vs $11.6 cap space next season, I'm taking the cap space. I could sign a player Vandy's level that's not coming off surgery.

There are three types of teams, imo.
Win now: Lots of vet players, over the cap, trade young players and picks for win now players, short term horizon

Middle teams: Most of the league; one or two high tier players (sometimes vets), some good young players, decent amount of picks, keep getting better slowly, build organically as opportunities arise. Medium-long term horizon, not trying to maximize squad now. Could get to the next level with a trade or thru draft. Should be patient with trades.

Rebuilding teams: Dump stars and vets for picks and young players/expirings. Lose for years and don't care. Hopefully 5-6 years down the line, you've drafted a gamechanger or two and rebuilt the entire team to fit them. Can get a great cap situation, so you could have great flexibility to speed up the rebuild in about 3 years usually, if you've drafted that player and your city is a FA destination.

Options two and three require luck to move forward, option 3 much more so. Need a high draft pick and also need to draft correctly with that pick. The other problem with that is there are multiple great players in every draft and great young players already in the league. So when you draft the next Trae young, there's also the next Luka in the draft as well as the current Luka, Wemby, etc. This strategy requires you to draft a Lebron/Luka/Wemby MVP level player, not just a star.

Drafting a 1A is important, building a good team is more important. Because there are a lot of 1A's with good teams around them.

I think the keep Vuc or trade for basically expirings (and 2nds) decision is solely tied to keeping our pick. Without Vuc, we have a good shot to keep it. It may also be tied to Zach, because if we trade both for little, we have a shot to get a very good pick.

That said, I am a fan of trading either/both for young prospects and/or 1sts.

I'm a Vandy fan. I agree, coming off injury, he's probably "worth his contract". But I do put him in the Caruso, Ball, Isaac level of defender, when healthy. Of course, the when healthy part is the key. I went back and recently saw the Caruso has missed about half the season this season, which is the problem with elite defenders, it seems. Also, to me, the appeal of Vandy would be playing him next to Vuc (and making Pat expendable via trade elsewhere).