PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[Gravy]

The Thibs injury arguments gets redundant, I'm not sure what else to add but I found stats that compare injuries with salary and the Knicks are 25th out of 30 teams in most injuries. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured/_/year/2024/view/team
Since Thibs has been here the Knicks are consistently one of the healthiest teams in the league, #1 healthiest in 2020. Last year they had the 10th most injuries and that was the outlier season. With that said Leon needs to get a better bench and Thibs can try to experiment more so the starters can be fresher in 4th quarters.

It isn't entirely about injuries though. This is where the strawman BS falls way short. We are losing games because we are gassed. Teams are actively waiting to attack us because they ALL KNOW we will lose steam. It's a big picture that has proven to be a detriment every single year when the playoffs roll around. It has happened to every team he has ever coached in almost every season. Injuries are only one part of the problem.

He needs to adjust or GTFO

Moving the goalposts from Thibs injures all his players every year to they are tired that's why we lose.

[MrDollarBills]

Look around the league. Are the names on other rosters who are 8th, 10th, 11th on the roster that much better? No. No one has a bench that has world beaters past their top 6 to 7. You gotta lean in and get minutes from where you can with the personnel available. It's on the staff to prepare guys 1 thru 15 to play and be ready.

10th man on the Thunder is Ajay Mitchell (or Kenrich Williams depending on how you factor Chet's injury) at 17 mpg

10th man for Cleveland is Ty Jerome at 18 mpg (or Sam Merrill at 19 mpg with Max Strus now back in the rotation)

F*ckin' the Celtics have both Luke Kornet and Neemis Queta playing 16-17 mpg

We only have 7 players getting more than 16 mpg. These guys are really saying that those guys I listed are so far above anyone who we could've gotten for our bench, that there's no way to find those types of players for us.

Ajay Mitchell. Ty Jerome. Luke Kornet. These are guys that scrap together 6ppg on a great night. Not studs or super subs like a Deuce or a Payton Pritchard.

If Kenny Atkinson, who i would kill to have take over this club, or Psycho Joe Mazulla, can get minutes out of fringe NBA players, what is Thibs' excuse? Because it ain't like any of these names are going to carry you to the promised land either, but they make it work.

This is who Thibs is. Tomorrow is never coming, and guys are indestructible in his mind. Until they aren't and suddenly your MVP candidate big man now has a bad hammy and knee from being run into the dirt

[whocares1]

Who drafts an almost 24 year small point guard with athletic limitations if they want him to be a defender? And why did we have a starting lineup of Brunson, DDV, RJ, Randle and Sims last December if being a good defender was a requirement?

Brunson is an outlier, tho he does contribute defensively with his charges drawn. Hes an offensive engine so Thibs will overlook that. Everyone else you mentioned are “capable” defenders without physical limitations. They can play decent to good defense depending on their effort. Kolek is limited defensively and until he works on his anticipation skills, opposing teams can key him in as a guy to take advantage of which is what Thibs hates about role players that can’t defend.

Kolek is so small though. Not just short. Physically he is diminutive compared to most. His defense may always be a problem. Not sure why they drafted and paid him like he will play.

I’m not sure why either. He needed to be an nba ready pretty decent offensive threat to force Thibs hand. He may one day work his way there but as for now he isn’t and Thibs has shown that he won’t play anyone that doesn’t fit his criteria unless they are scoring consistently.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting that Payne, Precious, Shamet, Sims, Kolek and Dadiet are great players. All of them are highly flawed, and two of them are inexperienced.

But are they so bad that they can't help carry the load a few mins here and there on a night at home where KAT is out, guys are tired and against an Orlando team that is decimated? I don't believe that.

Look around the league. Are the names on other rosters who are 8th, 10th, 11th on the roster that much better? No. No one has a bench that has world beaters past their top 6 to 7. You gotta lean in and get minutes from where you can with the personnel available. It's on the staff to prepare guys 1 thru 15 to play and be ready.

I mean unless every team that Thibs had in Chicago and Minnesota just had no NBA talent outside of their starting 5, this is a common, reoccurring issue with his teams.

I'm not calling for load management. But shave the damn minutes and stagger the line ups so guys aren't logging nearly 24 minutes by half time. Is the goal to win 100% of regular season games at all cost or is it getting to the playoffs to win a championship?

Winning the 1st three quarters only for everyone to gas out in the 4th is not a winning solution and we now have to worry about Karl's knee all season

A few minutes here and there?

Sims played 29 minutes last night
Achiuwa played 22 minutes last night
Shamet played 21 minutes last night
Cam Payne played 12 minutes last night

Not even sure what you are asking for at this point, more minutes?

Those are all fresh legs and what exactly did they provide last night? I think you answered your own question

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

[kNicksGmen]

The Thibs injury arguments gets redundant, I'm not sure what else to add but I found stats that compare injuries with salary and the Knicks are 25th out of 30 teams in most injuries. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured/_/year/2024/view/team
Since Thibs has been here the Knicks are consistently one of the healthiest teams in the league, #1 healthiest in 2020. Last year they had the 10th most injuries and that was the outlier season. With that said Leon needs to get a better bench and Thibs can try to experiment more so the starters can be fresher in 4th quarters.

this is a great examples of numbers lie.

was brunson injured in the playoffs last year? no because he played right? how about hart in game 7?

injuries, wear and tear etc aren't black and white. it's not as simple as just games missed.

Its comparing teams injuries, the Knicks dont exist in a vacuum. The Celtics had an important starter KP miss almost the whole season and the playoffs last year but they still won because they had that much talent. Players will play through injuries all the time on other teams. Our team has no depth so any injury will be felt more even though its less than most teams. The Thunder's backup center is IHart, ours is Jericho Sims

comping to the celtics and OKC isn't fair - the 2 most stacked teams maybe in league history. Ihart is their starter also, not a backup. even when Chet comes back, Ihart is playing 30 minutes and closing most games.

the list you posted is nonsense. #1 team is suns which missed 74 games. knicks 25th with.... 75 missed games lol. it's based on salary as if that is a correlation to best players.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The Thibs injury arguments gets redundant, I'm not sure what else to add but I found stats that compare injuries with salary and the Knicks are 25th out of 30 teams in most injuries. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured/_/year/2024/view/team
Since Thibs has been here the Knicks are consistently one of the healthiest teams in the league, #1 healthiest in 2020. Last year they had the 10th most injuries and that was the outlier season. With that said Leon needs to get a better bench and Thibs can try to experiment more so the starters can be fresher in 4th quarters.

It isn't entirely about injuries though. This is where the strawman BS falls way short. We are losing games because we are gassed. Teams are actively waiting to attack us because they ALL KNOW we will lose steam. It's a big picture that has proven to be a detriment every single year when the playoffs roll around. It has happened to every team he has ever coached in almost every season. Injuries are only one part of the problem.

He needs to adjust or GTFO

Moving the goalposts from Thibs injures all his players every year to they are tired that's why we lose.

Not at all. It's both. The proof is in the pudding. Thibs does not think ahead. Ever. Believe what you want but, facts are facts. We have over a decade of proof he can't win when it matters most. It always comes down to the same issues. Injuries and weak playoff performances. Hasn't changed since Chicago to Minnesota to New York. Ultimately he falls short every year. He loses his best players to major injuries everywhere he goes. It's not confidence. It's plain as day he can only coach one way. It hasn't worked out once.

[kNicksGmen]

I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting that Payne, Precious, Shamet, Sims, Kolek and Dadiet are great players. All of them are highly flawed, and two of them are inexperienced.

But are they so bad that they can't help carry the load a few mins here and there on a night at home where KAT is out, guys are tired and against an Orlando team that is decimated? I don't believe that.

Look around the league. Are the names on other rosters who are 8th, 10th, 11th on the roster that much better? No. No one has a bench that has world beaters past their top 6 to 7. You gotta lean in and get minutes from where you can with the personnel available. It's on the staff to prepare guys 1 thru 15 to play and be ready.

I mean unless every team that Thibs had in Chicago and Minnesota just had no NBA talent outside of their starting 5, this is a common, reoccurring issue with his teams.

I'm not calling for load management. But shave the damn minutes and stagger the line ups so guys aren't logging nearly 24 minutes by half time. Is the goal to win 100% of regular season games at all cost or is it getting to the playoffs to win a championship?

Winning the 1st three quarters only for everyone to gas out in the 4th is not a winning solution and we now have to worry about Karl's knee all season

Is the goal to win 100% of regular season games at all cost or is it getting to the playoffs to win a championship?

we already know the answer. he's said it himself over and over. all he focuses on is the singular game, that is all that matters. anything beyond that you deal with it when it comes. i doubt he's given much thought to rotations when mitch comes back, for example. it's all win this game, right now, at all costs.

[HEZI]

I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting that Payne, Precious, Shamet, Sims, Kolek and Dadiet are great players. All of them are highly flawed, and two of them are inexperienced.

But are they so bad that they can't help carry the load a few mins here and there on a night at home where KAT is out, guys are tired and against an Orlando team that is decimated? I don't believe that.

Look around the league. Are the names on other rosters who are 8th, 10th, 11th on the roster that much better? No. No one has a bench that has world beaters past their top 6 to 7. You gotta lean in and get minutes from where you can with the personnel available. It's on the staff to prepare guys 1 thru 15 to play and be ready.

I mean unless every team that Thibs had in Chicago and Minnesota just had no NBA talent outside of their starting 5, this is a common, reoccurring issue with his teams.

I'm not calling for load management. But shave the damn minutes and stagger the line ups so guys aren't logging nearly 24 minutes by half time. Is the goal to win 100% of regular season games at all cost or is it getting to the playoffs to win a championship?

Winning the 1st three quarters only for everyone to gas out in the 4th is not a winning solution and we now have to worry about Karl's knee all season

A few minutes here and there?

Sims played 29 minutes last night
Achiuwa played 22 minutes last night
Shamet played 21 minutes last night
Cam Payne played 12 minutes last night

Not even sure what you are asking for at this point, more minutes?

Those are all fresh legs and what exactly did they provide last night? I think you answered your own question

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

So just be a .500 team that might be a play in team and look at matchups like Boston and Cleveland in the 1st round? As long as you are ok with that reality I can respect it

[Buttah304]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

The book is out on thibs Folksssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s only a matter of time now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quin Synder tells the Hawks to run and push the pace against us because we'll get tired

Bruh it’s so funny you said that because Quinn in the 2nd half of the cup game made one minor adjustment that paid enormous dividends: push the pace after every secured defensive rebound. I’m not even talking going coast to coast for fastbreak buckets. I’m talking simply getting the offensive action going quicker than usual

Thibs had his arms folded like he was looking at the construction of the Pyramid of Giza

[HEZI]

The bench is 7th in the league in net rating, people want the bench to play more regardless of whether or not they're good to preserve the health of the starters. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to get? Expand the rotation to include the rookies, so we don't limp into the playoffs yet again.


Our benches have been 19th, 23rd, 27th, 29th and 30th in minutes his 5 years as coach, we have always had short rotations relative to the rest of the NBA. You're trying so hard to defend Tom you're not even making sense.

I don’t care about the rating.

Embarrassing, flat out shameful. Tom is perfect, he does no wrong, save the long post. That's all I will associate with you from now on, Tom is infallible and when a player's knee disintegrates after 48 minutes without a rest it's their own fault, I mean you already blamed KAT for getting hurt.

The guy with comebacks has no comebacks. You either fell off or I’m just a big mismatch for you.

[Jalen Bluntson]

A few minutes here and there?

Sims played 29 minutes last night
Achiuwa played 22 minutes last night
Shamet played 21 minutes last night
Cam Payne played 12 minutes last night

Not even sure what you are asking for at this point, more minutes?

Those are all fresh legs and what exactly did they provide last night? I think you answered your own question

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

So just be a .500 team that might be a play in team and look at matchups like Boston and Cleveland in the 1st round? As long as you are ok with that reality I can respect it

What's with you and the extreme strawman takes? You are all over the map trying to make excuses and every one of them is a load of crap. None of what you say carries any water in this discussion. You twist things and exaggerate things and you are wrong about all of it. Over a decade of proof has been laid out for you and teams are actively attacking Thibs strategy with success. If you think anyone believes the ten players who beat us last night are better than our team then there is nothing left to say. You're lying. That's it.

[Gravy]

this is a great examples of numbers lie.

was brunson injured in the playoffs last year? no because he played right? how about hart in game 7?

injuries, wear and tear etc aren't black and white. it's not as simple as just games missed.

Its comparing teams injuries, the Knicks dont exist in a vacuum. The Celtics had an important starter KP miss almost the whole season and the playoffs last year but they still won because they had that much talent. Players will play through injuries all the time on other teams. Our team has no depth so any injury will be felt more even though its less than most teams. The Thunder's backup center is IHart, ours is Jericho Sims

comping to the celtics and OKC isn't fair - the 2 most stacked teams maybe in league history. Ihart is their starter also, not a backup. even when Chet comes back, Ihart is playing 30 minutes and closing most games.

the list you posted is nonsense. #1 team is suns which missed 74 games. knicks 25th with.... 75 missed games lol. it's based on salary as if that is a correlation to best players.

Salary usually indicates the most important players. Kevin Durant and Beal missing 10 games each on the Suns this season is more important than the games Landry Shamet and Precious missed that's why the Suns are higher on the list.

How is it fair to expect Thibs to keep pace with OKC and the Celtics when they have historically stacked rosters while our fans are begging for the 58th pick to be in the rotation?

[MrDollarBills]

A few minutes here and there?

Sims played 29 minutes last night
Achiuwa played 22 minutes last night
Shamet played 21 minutes last night
Cam Payne played 12 minutes last night

Not even sure what you are asking for at this point, more minutes?

Those are all fresh legs and what exactly did they provide last night? I think you answered your own question

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

So just be a .500 team that might be a play in team and look at matchups like Boston and Cleveland in the 1st round? As long as you are ok with that reality I can respect it

I think opening up the bench to 3 to 4 more bodies in the mix each night with KAT/JB/OG/Mikal/Hart/Deuce will be way better than a .500 club. This team is way too talented for that.


I'm not asking for Payne, Shamet, Precious and Sims to even play as many minutes as they did last night. If the starters' mins can be capped to 32-36 at most (I think Josh and Mikal can handle 36mpg) i think that's a step in the right direction.

[thebuzzardman]

I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting that Payne, Precious, Shamet, Sims, Kolek and Dadiet are great players. All of them are highly flawed, and two of them are inexperienced.

But are they so bad that they can't help carry the load a few mins here and there on a night at home where KAT is out, guys are tired and against an Orlando team that is decimated? I don't believe that.

Look around the league. Are the names on other rosters who are 8th, 10th, 11th on the roster that much better? No. No one has a bench that has world beaters past their top 6 to 7. You gotta lean in and get minutes from where you can with the personnel available. It's on the staff to prepare guys 1 thru 15 to play and be ready.

I mean unless every team that Thibs had in Chicago and Minnesota just had no NBA talent outside of their starting 5, this is a common, reoccurring issue with his teams.

I'm not calling for load management. But shave the damn minutes and stagger the line ups so guys aren't logging nearly 24 minutes by half time. Is the goal to win 100% of regular season games at all cost or is it getting to the playoffs to win a championship?

Winning the 1st three quarters only for everyone to gas out in the 4th is not a winning solution and we now have to worry about Karl's knee all season

A few minutes here and there?

Sims played 29 minutes last night
Achiuwa played 22 minutes last night
Shamet played 21 minutes last night
Cam Payne played 12 minutes last night

Not even sure what you are asking for at this point, more minutes?

Those are all fresh legs and what exactly did they provide last night? I think you answered your own question

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

Knicks would be a .500 team. At best.

[MrDollarBills]

A few minutes here and there?

Sims played 29 minutes last night
Achiuwa played 22 minutes last night
Shamet played 21 minutes last night
Cam Payne played 12 minutes last night

Not even sure what you are asking for at this point, more minutes?

Those are all fresh legs and what exactly did they provide last night? I think you answered your own question

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

Knicks would be a .500 team. At best.

That's a higher level of optimism than I'm used to from you.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks should have a 13 man rotation

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

So just be a .500 team that might be a play in team and look at matchups like Boston and Cleveland in the 1st round? As long as you are ok with that reality I can respect it

I think opening up the bench to 3 to 4 more bodies in the mix each night with KAT/JB/OG/Mikal/Hart/Deuce will be way better than a .500 club. This team is way too talented for that.


I'm not asking for Payne, Shamet, Precious and Sims to even play as many minutes as they did last night. If the starters' mins can be capped to 32-36 at most (I think Josh and Mikal can handle 36mpg) i think that's a step in the right direction.

Oh look, one game Thibs uses his bench. See. Proof he uses his bench!! can't take any of this shyt serious at this point. Orlando third string is better than our bench. FOH LIES!

[Buttah304]

What I do think is funny is that Thibs was sincerely praising Sims earlier in the year, and everyone should know the investment they made in him over the summer working with big man coaches. Huk’s aggression practically won them the BK game. Talk about young legs and energy, Kolek checked into a game for us recently….after checking out of one earlier that same day. Dadiet hit three 3s and had a couple assists in 16min vs Washington in November and basically went to the shadow realm.

Feels like the bench looks at Tommy like:

[NiceLikeChrist]

The Thibs injury arguments gets redundant, I'm not sure what else to add but I found stats that compare injuries with salary and the Knicks are 25th out of 30 teams in most injuries. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured/_/year/2024/view/team
Since Thibs has been here the Knicks are consistently one of the healthiest teams in the league, #1 healthiest in 2020. Last year they had the 10th most injuries and that was the outlier season. With that said Leon needs to get a better bench and Thibs can try to experiment more so the starters can be fresher in 4th quarters.

It isn't entirely about injuries though. This is where the strawman BS falls way short. We are losing games because we are gassed. Teams are actively waiting to attack us because they ALL KNOW we will lose steam. It's a big picture that has proven to be a detriment every single year when the playoffs roll around. It has happened to every team he has ever coached in almost every season. Injuries are only one part of the problem.

He needs to adjust or GTFO

Moving the goalposts from Thibs injures all his players every year to they are tired that's why we lose.

Good lord man the goalpost was never moved. The root of the issue has always been very simple. “Thibs plays guys too many minutes”. And that issue is the thing that branches off into “thibs doesn’t play the bench”, “our starters are gassed in January”, “kat got injured late 4th when we’re down 15”, etc

It all stems from his minutes philosophy in general that has been proven to never get him deep in the postseason.

Don’t even get me started on his lack of adjustments and imagination on both ends. The minutes stuff alone is worth finding a new coach.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I don’t care about the rating.

Embarrassing, flat out shameful. Tom is perfect, he does no wrong, save the long post. That's all I will associate with you from now on, Tom is infallible and when a player's knee disintegrates after 48 minutes without a rest it's their own fault, I mean you already blamed KAT for getting hurt.

The guy with comebacks has no comebacks. You either fell off or I’m just a big mismatch for you.

You out here looking crazy bro, to see you go out like this is sad, I could see fighting tooth and nail like this if he won chips or something but you're arguing hard to keep Mike Fratello. And you're right, you are a big mismatch because I fundamentally can't argue with someone that will blame the player for getting hurt when they should have been out the game in a blowout loss. That's some special level of glazing for Tom, I'm now worried you may run up on him like fanatics often do to their obsessions.