Big Nick Energy: The Nick Richards Thread

[JMAC3]

Honestly at this point I would rather see the Hornets trade all 6 first round picks that trade eligible and compete for the 7 seed then watching us flounder around preaching good habits for the 3rd year in a row.

Ummm...that seems like a real outlier take to me.

Yeah, probably not popular but at this point that probably has a better success rate then whatever we have been doing. Come down this crazy stupid thought path.

1. Our future would probably be capped from never winning the title, but we would be at least competitive night in and night out.
2. We might actually make the playoffs and see real basketball instead of watching a 12 win team try to lose the last 10 games of the season because of ping pong balls.
3. The general fan would be more interested in the team and we might actually build a decent reputation in the city and around the NBA.
4. You can't tell me that would be worse for the development of LaMelo and Miller than us tanking away the season and having them play 30 games the rest of the way out.

or we can continue to play it safe, safer than any other team in the league. Never trade multiple firsts for anyone, ever. Spend no money and have a bottom 5 payroll and hope we draft the next Giannis or Luka in the draft.

Legit the Pacers have been far more active than we have trading Paul George, trading Sabonis for Haliburton, trading for Siakam... Charlotte would never ever ever take any chances like that. Maybe someday once we are the new Thunder we can finally trade some of precious future picks.

What would be more fun to talk about and watch? The Hornets playing the 3 seed in a 7 game series the next 3 years or tanking and hoping to draft Carlos Boozer kid to be our franchise savior in 2031.

What's more likely? LaMelo asks for a trade because we just can't get over the hump of winning a 2nd round playoff series or we don't make the playoffs the next 3 years?

Worst case scenario none of the trades work out, we are terrible anyways for the next 5-7 years. You know the same thing that has been happening in Charlotte since the team came back.

I would rather be the Suns right now with zero assets, a few stars and fighting to get over the hump and playing in the playoffs then Utah who is holding all the cards but nobody to play with.

[yosemiteben]

My personal view is that I believe the FO's goal of sustained success is the right one, and I believe we have taken smart first steps to get there.

[Rich4114]

Honestly at this point I would rather see the Hornets trade all 6 first round picks that trade eligible and compete for the 7 seed then watching us flounder around preaching good habits for the 3rd year in a row.

Ummm...that seems like a real outlier take to me.

Yeah, probably not popular but at this point that probably has a better success rate then whatever we have been doing. Come down this crazy stupid thought path.

1. Our future would probably be capped from never winning the title, but we would be at least competitive night in and night out.
2. We might actually make the playoffs and see real basketball instead of watching a 12 win team try to lose the last 10 games of the season because of ping pong balls.
3. The general fan would be more interested in the team and we might actually build a decent reputation in the city and around the NBA.
4. You can't tell me that would be worse for the development of LaMelo and Miller than us tanking away the season and having them play 30 games the rest of the way out.

or we can continue to play it safe, safer than any other team in the league. Never trade multiple firsts for anyone, ever. Spend no money and have a bottom 5 payroll and hope we draft the next Giannis or Luka in the draft.

Legit the Pacers have been far more active than we have trading Paul George, trading Sabonis for Haliburton, trading for Siakam... Charlotte would never ever ever take any chances like that. Maybe someday once we are the new Thunder we can finally trade some of precious future picks.

What would be more fun to talk about and watch? The Hornets playing the 3 seed in a 7 game series the next 3 years or tanking and hoping to draft Carlos Boozer kid to be our franchise savior in 2031.

What's more likely? LaMelo asks for a trade because we just can't get over the hump of winning a 2nd round playoff series or we don't make the playoffs the next 3 years?

Worst case scenario none of the trades work out, we are terrible anyways for the next 5-7 years. You know the same thing that has been happening in Charlotte since the team came back.

I would rather be the Suns right now with zero assets, a few stars and fighting to get over the hump and playing in the playoffs then Utah who is holding all the cards but nobody to play with.

Friendly reminder that we have had those future firsts for roughly 10-11 months now not years. With injuries to LaMelo the last two seasons and Hayward being predictably cooked by the second half of his contract, the new owners made a call to move on from them and get what they could. I'd say they did well, but you can't expect immediate results out of that given this situation.

It's all about this deadline and this summer. Jeff has some work to do and he has some assets to work with even without moving anyone else this deadline (which he ought to do). I'd love to see them use those future picks on a trade for established talent or a star. I've been very vocal in that we should pursue Zion with those assets if possible for example and I'd like to see us get Lonzo not because he's LaMelo's brother (though that is surely a small part of it) but because he'd help us in areas of weakness. You just need to accept where we're at this season and what the long game should be IMO.

[JMAC3]

My personal view is that I believe the FO's goal of sustained success is the right one, and I believe we have taken smart first steps to get there.

I disagree because of the unwritten standards of the NBA.

DFS was traded for 3 2nd round picks, he is the type of player that Charlotte needed and could have outbid Lakers pretty easily. However they won't because we are too bad to add guys that can help win games. Instead we are collecting a billion 2nd round picks to do who knows what with, because we never actually use them to acquire players. Instead we use them to draft players like Amari Bailey, KJ Simpson, Jalen McDaniels who aren't any better than the players we traded for the pick for.. all so we can feel good about having a bunch of picks.

In order for the trades of Rozier, PJ, Richards to be successful you have to be aggressive with the picks you get back and reroll them into equal/better talents. Charlotte isn't doing that, we would rather trade a future first for Kai Jones in the post lottery then go get a known commodity who could help us win games, because that is what NBA etiquette says we should do.

It is more likely we sit on the Mavs pick and it ends up being the 24th selection and we use to draft some sophomore from the SEC then go acquire a player that helps LaMelo turn us into a winning franchise because we will continue to run this very drawn out, safe, acquire draft picks model that feels like is a never ending cycle.

If you had to take over a franchise today, would you rather be the Suns or Jazz?

[fatlever]

I think in this discussion you have to at least acknowledge that a lot of them moves you're mentioning were under the old owners and under the old gm.

MJ and Cho didn't really value second round picks and often then sold them for cash. Terrible idea

Mitch came along and really valued second round picks because he had had some success with the lakers finding some gems. Unfortunately he used all our second round picks to load the entire back half of our roster with his projects.

It's too early to really tell how Jeff Peterson will use this stockpile of second round picks but we cant just assume he'll have the same game plan as mitch. We already saw him use multiple second round picks to acquire Josh green, and move at the time at least made sense on paper. And some of those second round picks were used at the deadline last year to get the trades with Oklahoma City Dallas and Miami over the line.

But it really comes back to the fact that Nick is not going to be on this roster after his contract ends. Because of how his contract is structured we can only offer him a slight increase I think of up to 9 million per year. Nick is going to chase his big payday. This is his chance. He's not going to resign here for 5 million again to be marks back up. And frankly it would be a pretty dumb idea to sign him to a bigger long-term deal. Trade him now while you have some value. His value is probably never going to be higher than it is at this moment.

It's time to start building this roster to fit the young Stars we have on it. Get some role players and some veterans who are better fits.

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[fatlever]

I 100% agree that we can't keep rebuilding forever and we do need to put Talent around the young players that we have. And we really can't afford to lose talent for nothing. But I have faith that our front office can find a better backup center than Nick Richards one that better fits this roster. At the very least we still have moose who has proven to be a much more effective player than Nick this season. And as a player who would have a clearly defined role as a defensive specialist and energy guy. What we really need in a backup center is someone who can shoot some threes and stretch the floor. So use some of these second round picks to go get that player.

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[JMAC3]

I think in this discussion you have to at least acknowledge that a lot of them moves you're mentioning were under the old owners and under the old gm.

MJ and Cho didn't really value second round picks and often then sold them for cash. Terrible idea

Mitch came along and really valued second round picks because he had had some success with the lakers finding some gems. Unfortunately he used all our second round picks to load the entire back half of our roster with his projects.

It's too early to really tell how Jeff Peterson will use this stockpile of second round picks but we cant just assume he'll have the same game plan as mitch. We already saw him use multiple second round picks to acquire Josh green, and move at the time at least made sense on paper. And some of those second round picks were used at the deadline last year to get the trades with Oklahoma City Dallas and Miami over the line.

But it really comes back to the fact that Nick is not going to be on this roster after his contract ends. Because of how his contract is structured we can only offer him a slight increase I think of up to 9 million per year. Nick is going to chase his big payday. This is his chance. He's not going to resign here for 5 million again to be marks back up. And frankly it would be a pretty dumb idea to sign him to a bigger long-term deal. Trade him now while you have some value. His value is probably never going to be higher than it is at this moment.

It's time to start building this roster to fit the young Stars we have on it. Get some role players and some veterans who are better fits.

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What are you talking about with Richards? There is no such rule. If the Hornets wanted they could give him a max contract once he hits free agency because we own his full bird rights, but that has very little barring on whether to keep him or not right now. He is still under contract for 1.5 years at 5 million.

This has less to do with Richards and more how to handle roster building/asset building moving forward. Trading Nick for 2 2nd rounders in 2028 isn't helping this team improve in the short term. No matter how much people try to say he is a losing player. If he was half as bad as many you claim there would be ZERO Trade Market for him.

Peterson is going the job security route, get as many picks as possible and always have the card in his back pocket that the team is close and could improve if they traded those picks. If he made aggressive moves and they don't work out and he has no future picks to sell his plan on then his job security goes bye bye.

Everything that has come from Lee and Peterson is preaching patience aka their job security. They are under promising so they can't under deliver. I don't think we are screwed, nor do I think we don't have any talent. I just don't see a lot of good coming from stripping the roster down to the studs and restarting a rebuild and then in 18 months be on the trade market trying to find the exact players that Cody Martin and Nick Richards are...

If I were trading Martin and Richards it would be under the umbrella they are expiring contracts to the team getting them and actually combining salaries and picks to get a better player than they are... not trading them for future picks to help a contender fill out their playoff rotation.

[fatlever]

https://youtu.be/V-v40TUdK0g?si=pgRyXz_CX1qAaoPR&t=2077

Here's the commentary on Nick Richards and why it might be wise to trade him now.. plow Talks about what I mentioned in terms of his contract. The most we can extend him for is 140% of his current deal. yes for 5 million for next year. What I'm saying is he's not a long term peace for this franchise. He's not going to be on this roster beyond the end of his contract. He's not sticking around to be mark's back up for 5 million plus a 140 per cent. He's a good value for 5 million. Nick is a decent pack up. I just don't think he's a good fit for this roster long term. So you move him now and you get some picks Or potentially another young player that you want to get a closer look at.

The first-year salary in a veteran extension can be worth up to 140% of the salary in the final year of the player’s previous contract or 140% of the NBA’s estimated average salary, whichever is greater. Annual raises are limited to 8% of the first-year extension salary.

[wilson115]

Don't agree with the addition by subtraction thing either, but I think we'll have to find a taker for Nick soon anyway. If we do manage to lock up Moose long-term, it's just going to make it harder for Nick to get minutes and keep up his trade value at least. I know they just re-signed him but maybe the Raptors have changed their mind about Kelly Olynyk now that they have Mogbo. Or maybe the Rockets or Grizzlies still think they're thin up-front?

[amcoolio]

At the end of the day, having Nick on the roster, or not having him, will not affect this team’s win total the next three years. So if someone actually wants to give something tangible for him, do it. The Hornets would still be 7-20whatever if he played 35 minutes every game this season

[MasterIchiro]

If the question is: Does Nick Richards have a longterm place on this team or not I'm speechless that anyone would argue he does.

Whatever the reason, speechless.

[JMAC3]

At the end of the day, having Nick on the roster, or not having him, will not affect this team’s win total the next three years. So if someone actually wants to give something tangible for him, do it. The Hornets would still be 7-20whatever if he played 35 minutes every game this season

I remember when people said the same thing about PJ last year. Losing player, we would be bad with him or without him. Guess what we are worse without him.

Do you think Onyeka Okongwu is a big reason the Hawks are winning games? Should they also move him for whatever they can because he isn't a main player on their team?

At a certain point talent is talent is talent. Like no the 8th best player on your team is not swinging your season but you know what is isn't making you better? Your 11th guy now becoming your 10th guy and so and so on.

It might be different in my opinion if Nick was 32 years old and an expiring contract. He is 27, has played a lot of minutes for us since our starting center has injury concerns and he is under contract for another year. There is no rush to trade him right now for peanuts.

We act like we didn't watch the Hornets play an entire year last year undermanned and outsized with PJ, Grant and Taj Gibson playing real minutes at the 5 the past 2 years. Yes, I would rather watch Nick play backup center minutes then that group next year, but we probably will sign Alex Len in FA to be our new backup center instead on the way to 19 wins next year, but hey at least we have those 2 2nd rounders moving forward and nobody can take those away from us.

[SWedd523]

My personal view is that I believe the FO's goal of sustained success is the right one, and I believe we have taken smart first steps to get there.

Been taking first steps for going on 13 years now.

Sooner or later you gotta put on some big boy pants and take a second one

[fatlever]

At the end of the day, having Nick on the roster, or not having him, will not affect this team’s win total the next three years. So if someone actually wants to give something tangible for him, do it. The Hornets would still be 7-20whatever if he played 35 minutes every game this season

I remember when people said the same thing about PJ last year. Losing player, we would be bad with him or without him. Guess what we are worse without him.

we got grant and a 1st
grant probably was more Valuable to this franchise in terms of winning and leadership yhan PJ was. Not a knock on pj because I wish we would have kept him over miles, But Miles had no value last year. Obviously it's horrific that Grant ripped his knee apart. But it's also no coincidence that we've only won one game since Grant got hurt. He was our most impactful player last year in terms of net ratings and was at or near the top this year before he got hurt. So it's not really fair to compare that and not take into account that the guy we got in return in the trade tore his ACL.

[MPM]

At the end of the day, having Nick on the roster, or not having him, will not affect this team’s win total the next three years. So if someone actually wants to give something tangible for him, do it. The Hornets would still be 7-20whatever if he played 35 minutes every game this season

I remember when people said the same thing about PJ last year. Losing player, we would be bad with him or without him. Guess what we are worse without him.

we got grant and a 1st
grant probably was more Valuable to this franchise in terms of winning and leadership yhan PJ was. Not a knock on pj because I wish we would have kept him over miles, But Miles had no value last year. Obviously it's horrific that Grant ripped his knee apart. But it's also no coincidence that we've only won one game since Grant got hurt. He was our most impactful player last year in terms of net ratings and was at or near the top this year before he got hurt. So it's not really fair to compare that and not take into account that the guy we got in return in the trade tore his ACL.

You just beat me to this. Grant vs. PJ is a poor example - I'd also argue Grant alone is/was more valuable to the Hornets than the sleepwalking, poor-shooting version of PJ we were treated to. More of a defender, more of a leader. And, yeah, it's Grant + Curry + a 1st. I do that trade every day even with the benefit of hindsight.

[Rich4114]

Dying on the Nick Richards hill is something else. I'd pick another hill because this one is like dying on one of those buried landfill hills.

[MasterIchiro]

Dying on the Nick Richards hill is something else. I'd pick another hill because this one is like dying on one of those buried landfill hills.

I'm literally shocked that people do not see what I see when I watch him play. My jaw drops when I watch his every move. You summed up flaws in great detail so at least I know I'm not the only crazy one if this conflicting perception split is simply a case of ignoring all the bad vs. ignoring all the good.

[wilson115]

Great half for Nick.

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[luciano-davidwesley]

Honestly at this point I would rather see the Hornets trade all 6 first round picks that trade eligible and compete for the 7 seed then watching us flounder around preaching good habits for the 3rd year in a row.

Ummm...that seems like a real outlier take to me.

Yeah, probably not popular but at this point that probably has a better success rate then whatever we have been doing. Come down this crazy stupid thought path.

1. Our future would probably be capped from never winning the title, but we would be at least competitive night in and night out.
2. We might actually make the playoffs and see real basketball instead of watching a 12 win team try to lose the last 10 games of the season because of ping pong balls.
3. The general fan would be more interested in the team and we might actually build a decent reputation in the city and around the NBA.
4. You can't tell me that would be worse for the development of LaMelo and Miller than us tanking away the season and having them play 30 games the rest of the way out.

or we can continue to play it safe, safer than any other team in the league. Never trade multiple firsts for anyone, ever. Spend no money and have a bottom 5 payroll and hope we draft the next Giannis or Luka in the draft.

Legit the Pacers have been far more active than we have trading Paul George, trading Sabonis for Haliburton, trading for Siakam... Charlotte would never ever ever take any chances like that. Maybe someday once we are the new Thunder we can finally trade some of precious future picks.

What would be more fun to talk about and watch? The Hornets playing the 3 seed in a 7 game series the next 3 years or tanking and hoping to draft Carlos Boozer kid to be our franchise savior in 2031.

What's more likely? LaMelo asks for a trade because we just can't get over the hump of winning a 2nd round playoff series or we don't make the playoffs the next 3 years?

Worst case scenario none of the trades work out, we are terrible anyways for the next 5-7 years. You know the same thing that has been happening in Charlotte since the team came back.

I would rather be the Suns right now with zero assets, a few stars and fighting to get over the hump and playing in the playoffs then Utah who is holding all the cards but nobody to play with.

I would much rather be the Jazz than the Suns. The Suns handcuffed themselves with stupid roster construction and desperation.

The Jazz can change gears if they wish and have a future and many different options to realise that future.

[Bassman]

I see both sides of this chat. Nick has a few impactful nights like last night which help his stock, but his body of work is below average. Is he a bad backup center? No, which is why some teams will pursue him. Hornets don’t really have a substitute for him yet. Moose is a young athletic surprise but he’s undersized and lacks a lot offensively.

The real challenge we have is HOW we can add that difference maker we need for the core. Of course we use draft picks, but we’d still need to deal some significant salary. Who would be realistic targets? I don’t count Zion in that cause I fear he is ruined as a reliable player in this league…wouldn’t touch him.

But back to Nick…indeed we will get some offers for him and we should trade him, because he isn’t in our long term plan. If we could deal him plus some players and pick(s) for Lauri or Collins? Now we’re talking a solution that hits on both cylinders.