PG: Embarrassing loss to ORL

[Jalen Bluntson]

It isn't entirely about injuries though. This is where the strawman BS falls way short. We are losing games because we are gassed. Teams are actively waiting to attack us because they ALL KNOW we will lose steam. It's a big picture that has proven to be a detriment every single year when the playoffs roll around. It has happened to every team he has ever coached in almost every season. Injuries are only one part of the problem.

He needs to adjust or GTFO

Moving the goalposts from Thibs injures all his players every year to they are tired that's why we lose.

Good lord man the goalpost was never moved. The root of the issue has always been very simple. “Thibs plays guys too many minutes”. And that issue is the thing that branches off into “thibs doesn’t play the bench”, “our starters are gassed in January”, “kat got injured late 4th when we’re down 15”, etc

It all stems from his minutes philosophy in general that has been proven to never get him deep in the postseason.

Don’t even get me started on his lack of adjustments and imagination on both ends. The minutes stuff alone is worth finding a new coach.

There's levels to all of it that get ignored because someone mentioned injuries as ONE aspect of what is wrong here. No critical thinking involved. Just put on blinders and run through a brick wall. Ignore everything else people say and hang on to one part. Look, we played the bench last night. No, we didn't. We played two guys twenty minutes and one guy for 12. Sporadically with no reason to it.

Orlando played 5 guys of the bench for 98 minutes. They ran us off the court with third string players! We played three guys a total of 50 minutes and started a third string guy and gave him 26 minutes. After not playing him for a month. After playing him a ton to start the season when n Thibs raved about him. It's all BS.

[Buttah304]

Truth is I really do love Thibs as a coach, but I also feel that he’s got significant flaws that are worth addressing. I’ve always felt that’s the point of a message board…to use it as a springboard for conversations around constructive criticism. Fans of every team do this on a yearly basis. But to have the mindset of “he’s the best we’ve had in years” therefore he’s literally immune to negative feedback is the very antitheses of being a fan. You should never feel content and always strive to be better.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Truth is I really do love Thibs as a coach, but I also feel that he’s got significant flaws that are worth addressing. I’ve always felt that’s the point of a message board…to use it as a springboard for conversations around constructive criticism. Fans of every team do this on a yearly basis. But to have the mindset of “he’s the best we’ve had in years” therefore he’s literally immune to negative feedback is the very antitheses of being a fan. You should never feel content and always strive to be better.

His personality fits. That's about all I like about him. His rotations and minutes are the worst in the league. He's bad/late with adjustments. He lacks creativity on both sides of the ball. He's stubborn. He's archaic.

Time to move on. He raises the floor and hard caps the ceiling. Even with HOF/All Star stacked teams his methods fall short. He gets fired and does the same things wherever he goes. I'm completely done with him.

[Gravy]

It isn't entirely about injuries though. This is where the strawman BS falls way short. We are losing games because we are gassed. Teams are actively waiting to attack us because they ALL KNOW we will lose steam. It's a big picture that has proven to be a detriment every single year when the playoffs roll around. It has happened to every team he has ever coached in almost every season. Injuries are only one part of the problem.

He needs to adjust or GTFO

Moving the goalposts from Thibs injures all his players every year to they are tired that's why we lose.

Good lord man the goalpost was never moved. The root of the issue has always been very simple. “Thibs plays guys too many minutes”. And that issue is the thing that branches off into “thibs doesn’t play the bench”, “our starters are gassed in January”, “kat got injured late 4th when we’re down 15”, etc

It all stems from his minutes philosophy in general that has been proven to never get him deep in the postseason.

Don’t even get me started on his lack of adjustments and imagination on both ends. The minutes stuff alone is worth finding a new coach.

2021 lost in first round because hawks were better
2023 lost in 2nd round to a more experienced Heat team
2024 lost in 2nd round because of injuries

None of these playoff series losses were because they were gassed. Maybe a random loss during the season sure, like any other team

[oldshoolballer]

Truth is I really do love Thibs as a coach, but I also feel that he’s got significant flaws that are worth addressing. I’ve always felt that’s the point of a message board…to use it as a springboard for conversations around constructive criticism. Fans of every team do this on a yearly basis. But to have the mindset of “he’s the best we’ve had in years” therefore he’s literally immune to negative feedback is the very antitheses of being a fan. You should never feel content and always strive to be better.

Good point.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Moving the goalposts from Thibs injures all his players every year to they are tired that's why we lose.

Good lord man the goalpost was never moved. The root of the issue has always been very simple. “Thibs plays guys too many minutes”. And that issue is the thing that branches off into “thibs doesn’t play the bench”, “our starters are gassed in January”, “kat got injured late 4th when we’re down 15”, etc

It all stems from his minutes philosophy in general that has been proven to never get him deep in the postseason.

Don’t even get me started on his lack of adjustments and imagination on both ends. The minutes stuff alone is worth finding a new coach.

2021 lost in first round because hawks were better
2023 lost in 2nd round to a more experienced Heat team
2024 lost in 2nd round because of injuries

None of these playoff series losses were because they were gassed. Maybe a random loss during the season sure, like any other team

No.
2021 we lost because Randle was injured.
2023 Randle and multiple players were injured
2024 the whole team was injured.

[MrDollarBills]

What I do think is funny is that Thibs was sincerely praising Sims earlier in the year, and everyone should know the investment they made in him over the summer working with big man coaches. Huk’s aggression practically won them the BK game. Talk about young legs and energy, Kolek checked into a game for us recently….after checking out of one earlier that same day. Dadiet hit three 3s and had a couple assists in 16min vs Washington in November and basically went to the shadow realm.

Feels like the bench looks at Tommy like:

Let's be real, there will be peaks and valleys in terms of production from Kolek, Hukporti and Dadiet...with way more valleys.

I don't expect Huk to beast against every other team like he did against Brooklyn, he more than likely will have moments where he makes mistakes, but mixing in some young, energetic legs in the line up with specific roles to support the main guys isn't going to turn this team into a play in squad.

[Gravy]

Good lord man the goalpost was never moved. The root of the issue has always been very simple. “Thibs plays guys too many minutes”. And that issue is the thing that branches off into “thibs doesn’t play the bench”, “our starters are gassed in January”, “kat got injured late 4th when we’re down 15”, etc

It all stems from his minutes philosophy in general that has been proven to never get him deep in the postseason.

Don’t even get me started on his lack of adjustments and imagination on both ends. The minutes stuff alone is worth finding a new coach.

2021 lost in first round because hawks were better
2023 lost in 2nd round to a more experienced Heat team
2024 lost in 2nd round because of injuries

None of these playoff series losses were because they were gassed. Maybe a random loss during the season sure, like any other team

No.
2021 we lost because Randle was injured.
2023 Randle and multiple players were injured
2024 the whole team was injured.

Goalposts back to injuries after you said it was about being "gassed" I guess Randle would have lead us to a championship those years if Thibs did not injure him, the same Randle everyone is glad is on another team!

[MrDollarBills]

Truth is I really do love Thibs as a coach, but I also feel that he’s got significant flaws that are worth addressing. I’ve always felt that’s the point of a message board…to use it as a springboard for conversations around constructive criticism. Fans of every team do this on a yearly basis. But to have the mindset of “he’s the best we’ve had in years” therefore he’s literally immune to negative feedback is the very antitheses of being a fan. You should never feel content and always strive to be better.

Truth.

I like Thibs. I like that he has that dog in him and I think he gets these guys to play hard, which is an underrated aspect of coaching.

But his methodology makes me afraid for this team's long term success this season. It's too much and we're not even to the break yet and these guys have looked dead legged since the 4th quarter against OKC. He's gotta put some trust into the other guys on this roster.

[Fat Kat]

Truth is I really do love Thibs as a coach, but I also feel that he’s got significant flaws that are worth addressing. I’ve always felt that’s the point of a message board…to use it as a springboard for conversations around constructive criticism. Fans of every team do this on a yearly basis. But to have the mindset of “he’s the best we’ve had in years” therefore he’s literally immune to negative feedback is the very antitheses of being a fan. You should never feel content and always strive to be better.

Agreed. He’s a frustrating , stubborn bastard. I’m still not over his Elfrid Payton fetish. Probably never will be, but having said that, there’s an absurd level of “fire Thibs” talk for my liking.
Does he need to improve? Yep
Can he improve? Eh, Maybe
Is he going anywhere? Nope

Most of the discourse here revolves around finding a flaw and proceeding to demonize not only that individual, but anyone not gathering firewood for the stake burning. It gets intense enough for fans to root for the failure of their own team just to prove their point.

[Jalen Bluntson]

2021 lost in first round because hawks were better
2023 lost in 2nd round to a more experienced Heat team
2024 lost in 2nd round because of injuries

None of these playoff series losses were because they were gassed. Maybe a random loss during the season sure, like any other team

No.
2021 we lost because Randle was injured.
2023 Randle and multiple players were injured
2024 the whole team was injured.

Goalposts back to injuries after you said it was about being "gassed" I guess Randle would have lead us to a championship those years if Thibs did not injure him, the same Randle everyone is glad is on another team!

Let me correct my other post. Randle was injured when we lost ALL THREE years. Multiple players were injured when we lost ALL THREE years. Last year the entire team was injured and gassed. Common fuggin sense.

You're being a clown now. Carry on with yourself.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Truth is I really do love Thibs as a coach, but I also feel that he’s got significant flaws that are worth addressing. I’ve always felt that’s the point of a message board…to use it as a springboard for conversations around constructive criticism. Fans of every team do this on a yearly basis. But to have the mindset of “he’s the best we’ve had in years” therefore he’s literally immune to negative feedback is the very antitheses of being a fan. You should never feel content and always strive to be better.

Agreed. He’s a frustrating , stubborn bastard. I’m still not over his Elfrid Payton fetish. Probably never will be, but having said that, there’s an absurd level of “fire Thibs” talk for my liking.
Does he need to improve? Yep
Can he improve? Eh, Maybe
Is he going anywhere? Nope

Most of the discourse here revolves around finding a flaw and proceeding to demonize not only that individual, but anyone not gathering firewood for the stake burning. It gets intense enough for fans to root for the failure of their own team just to prove their point.

I'm sorry but, if he maybe can't improve then he has to go. Not saying he is going anywhere but, I'm done with him. I don't care what anyone thinks about him but, just don't throw BS out there when having the discussion about his flaws. He has been fired twice for the things we are seeing now. Why should anyone expect him to change? We don't have forever with this roster to win a title so how much time are we gonna waste? Are we gonna let him destroy careers on his way out? He needs to change and we can't wait forever for him to do so.

[HEZI]

Yeah i know, and that's great actually. All 4 of these guys should be playing every night. I don't expect perfection from them, i expect them to know their roles and play hard while the guys that they play behind get a blow on the bench, no pause. That's it. I don't expect anything more than that.

Let's keep getting them more time with the other 6 guys and play an actual sane rotation so that the real goal, winning games in May and June, can be obtainable.

So just be a .500 team that might be a play in team and look at matchups like Boston and Cleveland in the 1st round? As long as you are ok with that reality I can respect it

I think opening up the bench to 3 to 4 more bodies in the mix each night with KAT/JB/OG/Mikal/Hart/Deuce will be way better than a .500 club. This team is way too talented for that.


I'm not asking for Payne, Shamet, Precious and Sims to even play as many minutes as they did last night. If the starters' mins can be capped to 32-36 at most (I think Josh and Mikal can handle 36mpg) i think that's a step in the right direction.

Yeah that sounds like a team that will be hovering around .500 basically around where the Pacers currently are

[HEZI]

Embarrassing, flat out shameful. Tom is perfect, he does no wrong, save the long post. That's all I will associate with you from now on, Tom is infallible and when a player's knee disintegrates after 48 minutes without a rest it's their own fault, I mean you already blamed KAT for getting hurt.

The guy with comebacks has no comebacks. You either fell off or I’m just a big mismatch for you.

You out here looking crazy bro, to see you go out like this is sad, I could see fighting tooth and nail like this if he won chips or something but you're arguing hard to keep Mike Fratello. And you're right, you are a big mismatch because I fundamentally can't argue with someone that will blame the player for getting hurt when they should have been out the game in a blowout loss. That's some special level of glazing for Tom, I'm now worried you may run up on him like fanatics often do to their obsessions.

You basically have to fabricate lies now to try to make some point because your actual argument got destroyed. Ultimate sign of defeat, sad

[dakomish23]

Guess the bench isn't good after all.

Shamet, Sims and Precious are a horrible bench. I would much rather put faith in Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti

Agreed, although I’d keep Shamet and ditch Payne. Shamet is limited but competent

Trade Payne + picks for Tyus Jones

[MrDollarBills]

So just be a .500 team that might be a play in team and look at matchups like Boston and Cleveland in the 1st round? As long as you are ok with that reality I can respect it

I think opening up the bench to 3 to 4 more bodies in the mix each night with KAT/JB/OG/Mikal/Hart/Deuce will be way better than a .500 club. This team is way too talented for that.


I'm not asking for Payne, Shamet, Precious and Sims to even play as many minutes as they did last night. If the starters' mins can be capped to 32-36 at most (I think Josh and Mikal can handle 36mpg) i think that's a step in the right direction.

Yeah that sounds like a team that will be hovering around .500 basically around where the Pacers currently are

I disagree. No club with KAT/JB/OG/Mikal/Hart/Deuce is going to be bad or middling. Giving more than 6 guys minutes each night isn't gonna tank the team

[KnicksGadfly]

"I've been doing this for years," Kerr says. "I took a lot of heat during the pandemic season because I was sticking to my guns and playing Steph 34 minutes a game, giving him about an eight-minute break in each half. And I used a line that became infamous around here when I said, 'We're not chasing wins.' And people were like, 'Then what the hell are you doing?' and the answer was, 'We're saving Steph. We're preserving him for his career.' I probably shouldn't have said the quiet part out loud, but I'm fine with admitting a big part of my job is not running Steph into the ground."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43313004/steph-curry-golden-state-warriors-career-nba-playoffs-hopes

[whocares1]

"I've been doing this for years," Kerr says. "I took a lot of heat during the pandemic season because I was sticking to my guns and playing Steph 34 minutes a game, giving him about an eight-minute break in each half. And I used a line that became infamous around here when I said, 'We're not chasing wins.' And people were like, 'Then what the hell are you doing?' and the answer was, 'We're saving Steph. We're preserving him for his career.' I probably shouldn't have said the quiet part out loud, but I'm fine with admitting a big part of my job is not running Steph into the ground."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43313004/steph-curry-golden-state-warriors-career-nba-playoffs-hopes

That’s hilarious bc a part of the reason Warriors fans hate Kerr is because he ices Steph Curry to rest him.

[KnicksGadfly]

"I've been doing this for years," Kerr says. "I took a lot of heat during the pandemic season because I was sticking to my guns and playing Steph 34 minutes a game, giving him about an eight-minute break in each half. And I used a line that became infamous around here when I said, 'We're not chasing wins.' And people were like, 'Then what the hell are you doing?' and the answer was, 'We're saving Steph. We're preserving him for his career.' I probably shouldn't have said the quiet part out loud, but I'm fine with admitting a big part of my job is not running Steph into the ground."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43313004/steph-curry-golden-state-warriors-career-nba-playoffs-hopes

That’s hilarious bc a part of the reason Warriors fans hate Kerr is because he ices Steph Curry to rest him.

Yah...there's always going to be a sacrifice. Hell, some fans here don't wanna see Precious or Payne anywhere near the court. Funny thing is that Thibs makes an appearance in this article.

Kerr's methods are not punitive, nor are they selfish. If he were selfish, he would go full Tom Thibodeau and run Curry and Green out there for 40 minutes a game. The soft limit on Curry's minutes comes from collaboration. "Every day," Kerr says. "We discuss it every day." And Curry says, "That's his job. He saves me from myself a lot. There are times when I'll push the envelope, and those conversations go one of two ways: either it's no conversation at all because of his feelings about where we are that night, or there are times when I can sense an opening. When I hear, 'Tell me how you feel,' I think we can be a little aggressive here. It's kind of unspoken. It is frustrating at times when you feel you can play more, but that's why we've been successful. We all feel like we're Superman every time we go out there."

[KnixinSix]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43313004/steph-curry-golden-state-warriors-career-nba-playoffs-hopes

That’s hilarious bc a part of the reason Warriors fans hate Kerr is because he ices Steph Curry to rest him.

Yah...there's always going to be a sacrifice. Hell, some fans here don't wanna see Precious or Payne anywhere near the court. Funny thing is that Thibs makes an appearance in this article.

Kerr's methods are not punitive, nor are they selfish. If he were selfish, he would go full Tom Thibodeau and run Curry and Green out there for 40 minutes a game. The soft limit on Curry's minutes comes from collaboration. "Every day," Kerr says. "We discuss it every day." And Curry says, "That's his job. He saves me from myself a lot. There are times when I'll push the envelope, and those conversations go one of two ways: either it's no conversation at all because of his feelings about where we are that night, or there are times when I can sense an opening. When I hear, 'Tell me how you feel,' I think we can be a little aggressive here. It's kind of unspoken. It is frustrating at times when you feel you can play more, but that's why we've been successful. We all feel like we're Superman every time we go out there."

Thibs is a great coach in many ways but this is 100% a huge blind spot for him. Rose is going to need to quickly get guys Thibs can trust in the rotation if we want to save this season. This season feels like it is heading down the same path as last year. Players just falling apart under too heavy a workload.