2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Why doesn’t it get brought up how Aaron Gordon has missed significant time and Jamal Murray has been in out of the lineup

Because people don’t know that. Additionally, even when Murray has played he’s been a net negative about 75% of the time.

Shai has the best supporting cast of any superstar in the league and Jokic has the worst (by far). I agree with the poster above who said SGA can be a the MVP leader all things considered but don’t confuse that with who is playing the best or who is the best because it’s clearly Jokic.

[Exp0sed]

Why doesn’t it get brought up how Aaron Gordon has missed significant time and Jamal Murray has been in out of the lineup

Murray has played 28/34 games, that's pretty normal. AG has missed 17/34 and that's a big loss indeed, DAJ is their only other bigman, that's wild. AG usually guards the opponent's best player and imposes a physical presence on both ends.

going from AG to Watson isn't that bad but the Nuggets really suffer when we look at 3rd stringers, cuz with AG out a player like Tyson is getting meaningful rotation mins and that can't be good

[Jaqua92]

It's reasonable to say that SGA is leading the MVP race so far One factoring in the entire picture. Team record, level of play, impact metrics, box score.

It's not reasonable to say that he is playing better basketball than Jokic lol.


SGA can be the MVP and Joker can be the best player on the planet. Both things can be true

First reasonable post in about 24 hours.

Effects of last game must be wearing off

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

When I saw that the Celtics went 8/39 on open or wide open shots, and that despite OKC's defense, they didn't actually stop the Celtics from generating good looks, yeah, I'm over it

[Inspektor1312]

This funny stat caught my eye:

Jokić's splits by days of rest between games:

0 Days: 7 games, 36.1/11.6/9.4 (+/- 29.5 & 70.4 TS% !!)
1 Day: 16 games, 32.8/14.4/9.7 (+/- 9.2)
2 Days: 4 games, 26.8/10.5/11 (+/- 3.2)
3+ days: 4 games, 23.3/12.5/9 (+/- 0.7)

The dude plays better the less rest he has
And those stats on back to backs...

[canada_dry]

It's reasonable to say that SGA is leading the MVP race so far One factoring in the entire picture. Team record, level of play, impact metrics, box score.

It's not reasonable to say that he is playing better basketball than Jokic lol.


SGA can be the MVP and Joker can be the best player on the planet. Both things can be true

First reasonable post in about 24 hours.

Effects of last game must be wearing off

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

When I saw that the Celtics went 8/39 on open or wide open shots, and that despite OKC's defense, they didn't actually stop the Celtics from generating good looks, yeah, I'm over it

Hey i hear ya. Im glad you're getting out of the fog you were in for a while there lol

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[hardenASG13]

Why doesn’t it get brought up how Aaron Gordon has missed significant time and Jamal Murray has been in out of the lineup

Because people don’t know that. Additionally, even when Murray has played he’s been a net negative about 75% of the time.

Shai has the best supporting cast of any superstar in the league and Jokic has the worst (by far). I agree with the poster above who said SGA can be a the MVP leader all things considered but don’t confuse that with who is playing the best or who is the best because it’s clearly Jokic.

You are aware OKC has been without their 2nd or 3rd best player (Chet) and was without hartenstein for a good stretch too, right?

[Jurassic_Park]

It's reasonable to say that SGA is leading the MVP race so far One factoring in the entire picture. Team record, level of play, impact metrics, box score.

It's not reasonable to say that he is playing better basketball than Jokic lol.


SGA can be the MVP and Joker can be the best player on the planet. Both things can be true

First reasonable post in about 24 hours.

Effects of last game must be wearing off

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

When I saw that the Celtics went 8/39 on open or wide open shots, and that despite OKC's defense, they didn't actually stop the Celtics from generating good looks, yeah, I'm over it

Just glad you finally realize there is nothing to discuss on tatum vs sga. You finally came around.

[Exp0sed]

This funny stat caught my eye:

Jokić's splits by days of rest between games:

0 Days: 7 games, 36.1/11.6/9.4 (+/- 29.5 & 70.4 TS% !!)
1 Day: 16 games, 32.8/14.4/9.7 (+/- 9.2)
2 Days: 4 games, 26.8/10.5/11 (+/- 3.2)
3+ days: 4 games, 23.3/12.5/9 (+/- 0.7)

The dude plays better the less rest he has
And those stats on back to backs...

Nuggets are 7-0 on b2b's, that's something u don't see every day..
they have another b2b tonight vs. the Clippers, if Jokic is still sick (which is likely) their streak will end tonight.

[Exp0sed]

Why doesn’t it get brought up how Aaron Gordon has missed significant time and Jamal Murray has been in out of the lineup

Because people don’t know that. Additionally, even when Murray has played he’s been a net negative about 75% of the time.

Shai has the best supporting cast of any superstar in the league and Jokic has the worst (by far). I agree with the poster above who said SGA can be a the MVP leader all things considered but don’t confuse that with who is playing the best or who is the best because it’s clearly Jokic.

You are aware OKC has been without their 2nd or 3rd best player (Chet) and was without hartenstein for a good stretch too, right?

you are aware the a player like Cason Wallace would be the Nuggets 3rd best player,right?

[pepe1991]

Because people don’t know that. Additionally, even when Murray has played he’s been a net negative about 75% of the time.

Shai has the best supporting cast of any superstar in the league and Jokic has the worst (by far). I agree with the poster above who said SGA can be a the MVP leader all things considered but don’t confuse that with who is playing the best or who is the best because it’s clearly Jokic.

You are aware OKC has been without their 2nd or 3rd best player (Chet) and was without hartenstein for a good stretch too, right?

you are aware the a player like Cason Wallace would be the Nuggets 3rd best player,right?

Imo Jokić should and will win MVP but Cason Wallace would NOT be 3rd best Nuggets player. He is worst at basketball than at least 5 Nuggets players. Guy today in nba is nothing but annoying on ball defender. Offers next to nothing on offense and his defense is still fairly limited because of his size. It's not like you will be switching him on SFs, PFs or Cs.

It's just current state of mind among nba fans, that is pretty much just anti- 2000s & 2010s basketball where people overrate on ball guard defenders, where in past they were brutally underrated. Truth is -basketball was and is two way sport. Guard who struggles to shoot, score, keep dribble alive, penetrate, attack closeout, has no floater to his game is nowhere near as valuable as some of people think and they aren't any more valuable than scoring guards who can't defend. There is good reason why guys like Roberson, Avery Bradley, KCP & Marcus Smart and many others dropped off map when they no longer had infrastructure of star players and ideal systems around them as safe net to hide their limitations.
Marcus Smart is probably poster boy of people overrating guard defense and justifying it by giving mythical attributes to player who's only offensive "strength" was highjacking offense due burning desire to prove himself something with hero ball shots. "leader, heart and soul, spiritual leader" ... In reality vastly overrated guard who without mythical aura, on Memphis, looks like third string scrub SG trying to hold onto nba job.

SGA has great supporting cast but man, guy is great player. You have to blind hater to not see it and appreciate it. OKC lost Holmgren as clear cut top 3 DPOY candidate and yet SGA and Jalen Williams hold that offense and keep winning.

[Exp0sed]

You are aware OKC has been without their 2nd or 3rd best player (Chet) and was without hartenstein for a good stretch too, right?

you are aware the a player like Cason Wallace would be the Nuggets 3rd best player,right?

Imo Jokić should and will win MVP but Cason Wallace would NOT be 3rd best Nuggets player. He is worst at basketball than at least 5 Nuggets players. Guy today in nba is nothing but annoying on ball defender. Offers next to nothing on offense and his defense is still fairly limited because of his size. It's not like you will be switching him on SFs, PFs or Cs.

It's just current state of mind among nba fans, that is pretty much just anti- 2000s & 2010s basketball where people overrate on ball guard defenders, where in past they were brutally underrated. Truth is -basketball was and is two way sport. Guard who struggles to shoot, score, keep dribble alive, penetrate, attack closeout, has no floater to his game is nowhere near as valuable as some of people think and they aren't any more valuable than scoring guards who can't defend. There is good reason why guys like Roberson, Avery Bradley, KCP & Marcus Smart and many others dropped off map when they no longer had infrastructure of star players and ideal systems around them as safe net to hide their limitations.
Marcus Smart is probably poster boy of people overrating guard defense and justifying it by giving mythical attributes to player who's only offensive "strength" was highjacking offense due burning desire to prove himself something with hero ball shots. "leader, heart and soul, spiritual leader" ... In reality vastly overrated guard who without mythical aura, on Memphis, looks like third string scrub SG trying to hold onto nba job.

SGA has great supporting cast but man, guy is great player. You have to blind hater to not see it and appreciate it. OKC lost Holmgren as clear cut top 3 DPOY candidate and yet SGA and Jalen Williams hold that offense and keep winning.

I was being a bit hyperbolic and exaggerated to make a point. With that said, Wallace is NOT Avery bradley or Robreson, come on now...

He shot over 40% from 3 on 3 attempts per game as a 20 years old rookie...

Yeah, he's been shooting like as* all season but he'll come around. He's shooting 85% from the line and has good mechanics..he's no Robreson

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

[RB34]

Denver’s offence is statistically almost 2 points worse than the Wizards (ranked 30th) when Jokic sits. That’s wild.

[lethalizer]

SGA is favored to win the award now on some betting sites.

Think this is a good time to bet on Jokic personally. The teams below OKC are too inconsistent/injury ridden to give them a challenge for the top seed during the regular season, so Shai will probably be rested/used sparingly as the season comes to a close, when the MVP narrative is at its strongest.

OKC has 47 games left. If they only won 27 of those, it'll probably be enough to clinch the conference itself.

The only motivation would be to chase HCA against Cavs/Celtics in a potential finals matchup, and I doubt the team will get ahead of themselves that much.

So while Shai saves himself (a-la Jokic in 2023 when Embiid won the award), Jokic will have to go all out to try to secure a HCA spot in the West. That will probably clinch the MVP for him.

[brackdan70]

This funny stat caught my eye:

Jokić's splits by days of rest between games:

0 Days: 7 games, 36.1/11.6/9.4 (+/- 29.5 & 70.4 TS% !!)
1 Day: 16 games, 32.8/14.4/9.7 (+/- 9.2)
2 Days: 4 games, 26.8/10.5/11 (+/- 3.2)
3+ days: 4 games, 23.3/12.5/9 (+/- 0.7)

The dude plays better the less rest he has
And those stats on back to backs...

Expect a dud in the next game I guess.

[hardenASG13]

Because people don’t know that. Additionally, even when Murray has played he’s been a net negative about 75% of the time.

Shai has the best supporting cast of any superstar in the league and Jokic has the worst (by far). I agree with the poster above who said SGA can be a the MVP leader all things considered but don’t confuse that with who is playing the best or who is the best because it’s clearly Jokic.

You are aware OKC has been without their 2nd or 3rd best player (Chet) and was without hartenstein for a good stretch too, right?

you are aware the a player like Cason Wallace would be the Nuggets 3rd best player,right?

You've got him over porter, Gordon and Braun, huh? And honestly Westbrook? If Cason Wallace was on Denver you'd just hear whining about how he can't shoot or score on here. He's also started 21 of 34 games and averaged 27mpg for OKC, he isn't exactly their 12th man.

The point remains, the post I was commenting on was that Denver has missed Gordon half of their games, and Murray missed a few. OKC has dealt with the same thing (likely worse, as Chet>Gordon)

[Exp0sed]

You are aware OKC has been without their 2nd or 3rd best player (Chet) and was without hartenstein for a good stretch too, right?

you are aware the a player like Cason Wallace would be the Nuggets 3rd best player,right?

You've got him over porter, Gordon and Braun, huh? And honestly Westbrook? If Cason Wallace was on Denver you'd just hear whining about how he can't shoot or score on here. He's also started 21 of 34 games and averaged 27mpg for OKC, he isn't exactly their 12th man.

The point remains, the post I was commenting on was that Denver has missed Gordon half of their games, and Murray missed a few. OKC has dealt with the same thing (likely worse, as Chet>Gordon)

He's better than Braun imo, fwiw. MPJ and AG are better and have been the Nuggets 2nd and 3rd best player respectively this season and 100/100 folks would take J-Dub and Chet over both of them

Like I said numerous times, SGA is comfortably ahead rn and very likely to remain ahead and win his first MVP while Jokic, imo, has been better individually at least per game

It's worth noting that Jokic has missed 3 games (very winnable games btw) earlier due to the birth of his child and if he sits out tonight with the ilness that kept him out vs the C's - it will be 5/36 games missed (the Nuggets will be 1-4) in those

So even commulatively i'd say SGA is ahead atm

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

[kazyv]

you are aware the a player like Cason Wallace would be the Nuggets 3rd best player,right?

Imo Jokić should and will win MVP but Cason Wallace would NOT be 3rd best Nuggets player. He is worst at basketball than at least 5 Nuggets players. Guy today in nba is nothing but annoying on ball defender. Offers next to nothing on offense and his defense is still fairly limited because of his size. It's not like you will be switching him on SFs, PFs or Cs.

It's just current state of mind among nba fans, that is pretty much just anti- 2000s & 2010s basketball where people overrate on ball guard defenders, where in past they were brutally underrated. Truth is -basketball was and is two way sport. Guard who struggles to shoot, score, keep dribble alive, penetrate, attack closeout, has no floater to his game is nowhere near as valuable as some of people think and they aren't any more valuable than scoring guards who can't defend. There is good reason why guys like Roberson, Avery Bradley, KCP & Marcus Smart and many others dropped off map when they no longer had infrastructure of star players and ideal systems around them as safe net to hide their limitations.
Marcus Smart is probably poster boy of people overrating guard defense and justifying it by giving mythical attributes to player who's only offensive "strength" was highjacking offense due burning desire to prove himself something with hero ball shots. "leader, heart and soul, spiritual leader" ... In reality vastly overrated guard who without mythical aura, on Memphis, looks like third string scrub SG trying to hold onto nba job.

SGA has great supporting cast but man, guy is great player. You have to blind hater to not see it and appreciate it. OKC lost Holmgren as clear cut top 3 DPOY candidate and yet SGA and Jalen Williams hold that offense and keep winning.

I was being a bit hyperbolic and exaggerated to make a point. With that said, Wallace is NOT Avery bradley or Robreson, come on now...

He shot over 40% from 3 on 3 attempts per game as a 20 years old rookie...

Yeah, he's been shooting like as* all season but he'll come around. He's shooting 85% from the line and has good mechanics..he's no Robreson

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

By that logic Jokic is playing with Murray, a guy who's averaged 26 ppg on .59 TS in the playoffs. But that's not how voting for the MVP of the 24/25 season works, is it? And last I checked, Wallace is averaging 6.7, 2.6 and 1.7 on .503 TS in 27 minutes of play or what they call in the biz: not starter material

It feels like every time I check this thread, the OKC players outside of SGA are being wildly overrated. Let's be real here. OKC is where it's at because of their ONE outstanding player, SGA. Sure, they play well as a team and are coached well. But that doesn't make the invidividual players some world beaters. This is clearly a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts

[Infinite Llamas]

Imo Jokić should and will win MVP but Cason Wallace would NOT be 3rd best Nuggets player. He is worst at basketball than at least 5 Nuggets players. Guy today in nba is nothing but annoying on ball defender. Offers next to nothing on offense and his defense is still fairly limited because of his size. It's not like you will be switching him on SFs, PFs or Cs.

It's just current state of mind among nba fans, that is pretty much just anti- 2000s & 2010s basketball where people overrate on ball guard defenders, where in past they were brutally underrated. Truth is -basketball was and is two way sport. Guard who struggles to shoot, score, keep dribble alive, penetrate, attack closeout, has no floater to his game is nowhere near as valuable as some of people think and they aren't any more valuable than scoring guards who can't defend. There is good reason why guys like Roberson, Avery Bradley, KCP & Marcus Smart and many others dropped off map when they no longer had infrastructure of star players and ideal systems around them as safe net to hide their limitations.
Marcus Smart is probably poster boy of people overrating guard defense and justifying it by giving mythical attributes to player who's only offensive "strength" was highjacking offense due burning desire to prove himself something with hero ball shots. "leader, heart and soul, spiritual leader" ... In reality vastly overrated guard who without mythical aura, on Memphis, looks like third string scrub SG trying to hold onto nba job.

SGA has great supporting cast but man, guy is great player. You have to blind hater to not see it and appreciate it. OKC lost Holmgren as clear cut top 3 DPOY candidate and yet SGA and Jalen Williams hold that offense and keep winning.

I was being a bit hyperbolic and exaggerated to make a point. With that said, Wallace is NOT Avery bradley or Robreson, come on now...

He shot over 40% from 3 on 3 attempts per game as a 20 years old rookie...

Yeah, he's been shooting like as* all season but he'll come around. He's shooting 85% from the line and has good mechanics..he's no Robreson

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

By that logic Jokic is playing with Murray, a guy who's averaged 26 ppg on .59 TS in the playoffs. But that's not how voting for the MVP of the 24/25 season works, is it? And last I checked, Wallace is averaging 6.7, 2.6 and 1.7 on .503 TS in 27 minutes of play or what they call in the biz: not starter material

It feels like every time I check this thread, the OKC players outside of SGA are being wildly overrated. Let's be real here. OKC is where it's at because of their ONE outstanding player, SGA. Sure, they play well as a team and are coached well. But that doesn't make the invidividual players some world beaters. This is clearly a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts

What’s their record with Hartenstein again? Team was shrewd for signing him and I think they would have fallen off a cliff if they didn’t have him after the Chet injury.

[Jurassic_Park]

SGA is favored to win the award now on some betting sites.

Think this is a good time to bet on Jokic personally. The teams below OKC are too inconsistent/injury ridden to give them a challenge for the top seed during the regular season, so Shai will probably be rested/used sparingly as the season comes to a close, when the MVP narrative is at its strongest.

OKC has 47 games left. If they only won 27 of those, it'll probably be enough to clinch the conference itself.

The only motivation would be to chase HCA against Cavs/Celtics in a potential finals matchup, and I doubt the team will get ahead of themselves that much.

So while Shai saves himself (a-la Jokic in 2023 when Embiid won the award), Jokic will have to go all out to try to secure a HCA spot in the West. That will probably clinch the MVP for him.

March 9 and 10 will have a big impact. Back to back games, Den at Okc, twice in a row. Okc at home both games

Prior to that, Den is at mil, at det, at bos

Tough stretch there

[kazyv]

I was being a bit hyperbolic and exaggerated to make a point. With that said, Wallace is NOT Avery bradley or Robreson, come on now...

He shot over 40% from 3 on 3 attempts per game as a 20 years old rookie...

Yeah, he's been shooting like as* all season but he'll come around. He's shooting 85% from the line and has good mechanics..he's no Robreson

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

By that logic Jokic is playing with Murray, a guy who's averaged 26 ppg on .59 TS in the playoffs. But that's not how voting for the MVP of the 24/25 season works, is it? And last I checked, Wallace is averaging 6.7, 2.6 and 1.7 on .503 TS in 27 minutes of play or what they call in the biz: not starter material

It feels like every time I check this thread, the OKC players outside of SGA are being wildly overrated. Let's be real here. OKC is where it's at because of their ONE outstanding player, SGA. Sure, they play well as a team and are coached well. But that doesn't make the invidividual players some world beaters. This is clearly a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts

What’s their record with Hartenstein again? Team was shrewd for signing him and I think they would have fallen off a cliff if they didn’t have him after the Chet injury.

I'm sure it's pretty good (it's 19-1), but then again, he missed 15 games, almost half of the games played. Not a big deal on the season if he doesn't miss a lot more time, but if we're evaluating the season so far, we really have to give credit to SGA