2024-25 Regular Season Thread Vol. 3

[Enso]

I didn't really think what Riley said in the offseason was that bad or should have gotten Butler upset. What did Riley say that wasn't true? Am I the only one who thinks it wasn't that bad?

Also, I'm wondering if some of these guys tune out their agents when it comes to advice. If what Jimmy really wanted was another 2-3 year max deal wouldn't it be more beneficial to him to leave his options open when it comes to teams he is willing to play for? If the reports are true that he only wants to play for the Suns then he's really backing himself in to a corner. Of course, none of us know what is really going on behind closed doors.

What Riley said was true but the way he went about it was from a different generation. Players get more in their feels these days and social media amplifies it.

Nobody gets in their feels more than Pat Riley does.

Pat didn't need to address Jimmy's comments at all. He didn't need to make any kind of scene about not wanting to extend Jimmy. He could have quietly moved Jimmy while Jimmy still had value in the offseason.

But Pat Riley chose a pissing contest instead. Both guys are irrational, and both are hurting the Heat.

I dunno bro I don’t want to re hash the same stuff over and over. Yeah it was unnecessary what Riles said in public but he wasn’t wrong. Jimmy had a history of coasting in the regular season which affected our playoff runs, finals run or not. Obv it’s more complicated than that, players got injured, spos funky rotations. But there’s no reason to be squeezing in as an 8th seed every year and then you wanna talk ish.

Riles should have said it in private but who knows maybe he did and it fell on deaf ears.

[BadMofoPimp]

I didn't really think what Riley said in the offseason was that bad or should have gotten Butler upset. What did Riley say that wasn't true? Am I the only one who thinks it wasn't that bad?

Also, I'm wondering if some of these guys tune out their agents when it comes to advice. If what Jimmy really wanted was another 2-3 year max deal wouldn't it be more beneficial to him to leave his options open when it comes to teams he is willing to play for? If the reports are true that he only wants to play for the Suns then he's really backing himself in to a corner. Of course, none of us know what is really going on behind closed doors.

Really?

Remember this? I bet Riley loved that, at the very least he didn't say anything about it, but last summer he didn't love Butler talking his **** that he'd have to prove the next season while a member of the Miami Heat?

Read on Twitter

I said it then and I'll say it now, I think Riley knew exactly what he was doing and wanted to make Butler force his way out and be the bad guy because Miami needed to get out of his contract because of future tax issues which start next season. If the FO moves him (and doesn't get much) they're the bad guys at that point, now, they're just doing what they need to.

That is one way to get out of Butlers contract.

[AirP.]

What Riley said was true but the way he went about it was from a different generation. Players get more in their feels these days and social media amplifies it.

Nobody gets in their feels more than Pat Riley does.

Pat didn't need to address Jimmy's comments at all. He didn't need to make any kind of scene about not wanting to extend Jimmy. He could have quietly moved Jimmy while Jimmy still had value in the offseason.

But Pat Riley chose a pissing contest instead. Both guys are irrational, and both are hurting the Heat.

I dunno bro I don’t want to re hash the same stuff over and over. Yeah it was unnecessary what Riles said in public but he wasn’t wrong. Jimmy had a history of coasting in the regular season which affected our playoff runs, finals run or not. Obv it’s more complicated than that, players got injured, spos funky rotations. But there’s no reason to be squeezing in as an 8th seed every year and then you wanna talk ish.

Riles should have said it in private but who knows maybe he did and it fell on deaf ears.

Riley said in the press conference he hadn't talked about that with Butler for over a year and last year was a little different with Butler dealing with his dying father who died around the all-star break.

[AirP.]

I didn't really think what Riley said in the offseason was that bad or should have gotten Butler upset. What did Riley say that wasn't true? Am I the only one who thinks it wasn't that bad?

Also, I'm wondering if some of these guys tune out their agents when it comes to advice. If what Jimmy really wanted was another 2-3 year max deal wouldn't it be more beneficial to him to leave his options open when it comes to teams he is willing to play for? If the reports are true that he only wants to play for the Suns then he's really backing himself in to a corner. Of course, none of us know what is really going on behind closed doors.

Really?

Remember this? I bet Riley loved that, at the very least he didn't say anything about it, but last summer he didn't love Butler talking his **** that he'd have to prove the next season while a member of the Miami Heat?

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I said it then and I'll say it now, I think Riley knew exactly what he was doing and wanted to make Butler force his way out and be the bad guy because Miami needed to get out of his contract because of future tax issues which start next season. If the FO moves him (and doesn't get much) they're the bad guys at that point, now, they're just doing what they need to.

That is one way to get out of Butlers contract.

Gotta say, now's the time to pivot for Miami. Either they can wait for 2026 to have a lot of money in FA or next year utilize some assets and expiring deals (Robinson, Rozier, Love, Highsmith) to try to bring the next max level player to Miami while also getting under the tax. If Butler stays you have what, 2-3 years left of him and at that point you have Bam at 30 and may have sent out a smaller asset or 2 to upgrade the roster.

Had Miami moved Butler for expiring's and maybe a draft asset or 2, part of this fanbase would have been mad, especially if they don't get another bigtime player in the next 2 years, now once Butler is moved, they have time and the ability and a fanbase on their side.

[jbsays]

OK.... looks like a lot of people disagree with me regarding Riley's statement.

How about the second part.... do you think a lot of these guys are tuning out their agents. If Jimmy's main priority is another max contract you'd think the best option would not be to limit himself to a small list (or even only one) team. You'd think his agent would advise him of that, right? So are players tuning their agents out or getting bad advice.

Unless of course agent has already reached out and confirmed one team (Suns) are the only team willing to give Jimmy the money he wants.

[Enso]

Nobody gets in their feels more than Pat Riley does.

Pat didn't need to address Jimmy's comments at all. He didn't need to make any kind of scene about not wanting to extend Jimmy. He could have quietly moved Jimmy while Jimmy still had value in the offseason.

But Pat Riley chose a pissing contest instead. Both guys are irrational, and both are hurting the Heat.

I dunno bro I don’t want to re hash the same stuff over and over. Yeah it was unnecessary what Riles said in public but he wasn’t wrong. Jimmy had a history of coasting in the regular season which affected our playoff runs, finals run or not. Obv it’s more complicated than that, players got injured, spos funky rotations. But there’s no reason to be squeezing in as an 8th seed every year and then you wanna talk ish.

Riles should have said it in private but who knows maybe he did and it fell on deaf ears.

Riley said in the press conference he hadn't talked about that with Butler for over a year and last year was a little different with Butler dealing with his dying father who died around the all-star break.

Yeah you’re right I forgot about that and then when asked about the availability issues by Ira Jimmy said Pat was right. That he would try to play the most games possible,

The main thing is Jimmys upset about the contract and is using old stuff to justify his current chity behaviour.

[BBallFreak]

I dunno bro I don’t want to re hash the same stuff over and over. Yeah it was unnecessary what Riles said in public but he wasn’t wrong. Jimmy had a history of coasting in the regular season which affected our playoff runs, finals run or not. Obv it’s more complicated than that, players got injured, spos funky rotations. But there’s no reason to be squeezing in as an 8th seed every year and then you wanna talk ish.

Riles should have said it in private but who knows maybe he did and it fell on deaf ears.

Riley said in the press conference he hadn't talked about that with Butler for over a year and last year was a little different with Butler dealing with his dying father who died around the all-star break.

Yeah you’re right I forgot about that and then when asked about the availability issues by Ira Jimmy said Pat was right. That he would try to play the most games possible,

The main thing is Jimmys upset about the contract and is using old stuff to justify his current chity behaviour.

And that's it, right there. It's not like Riley said anything Jimmy, himself, didn't agree with. He just wanted to see Jimmy follow through and play. Now Jimmy is all up in his feels because Riley was trying to let him play before extending him. And it's not even like Jimmy want going to get a penny next year. Dude has a $50 million option!

So to recap, Riley says play more and we'll extend you.

Jimmy agrees.

Jimmy them changes his mind and demands out.

Am I missing something here?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[jbsays]

When Beal was originally available I was on board with going after him to pair with Butler and Bam. At this point I don't think he's any better than Herro and I don't really see how they'd compliment each other. Beal really can't play SF either. I guess if Heat figure a motivated Beal with an extra year is better than demotivated Jimmy then maybe they make the deal? It would pretty much kill all flexibility and I don't think Bam or Herro have enough upside paired with Beal to be an elite team in the East.

Ingram is the guy that intrigues me. 27 years old and longer wingspan and standing reach than anyone on Heat's roster other than Ware.

[AirP.]

Riley said in the press conference he hadn't talked about that with Butler for over a year and last year was a little different with Butler dealing with his dying father who died around the all-star break.

Yeah you’re right I forgot about that and then when asked about the availability issues by Ira Jimmy said Pat was right. That he would try to play the most games possible,

The main thing is Jimmys upset about the contract and is using old stuff to justify his current chity behaviour.

And that's it, right there. It's not like Riley said anything Jimmy, himself, didn't agree with. He just wanted to see Jimmy follow through and play. Now Jimmy is all up in his feels because Riley was trying to let him play before extending him. And it's not even like Jimmy want going to get a penny next year. Dude has a $50 million option!

So to recap, Riley says play more and we'll extend you.

Jimmy agrees.

Jimmy them changes his mind and demands out.

Am I missing something here?

Yes, the reason Butler changes his mind because of the first 7 minutes of the New Orlean's game, Butler's first game back, go back and look at Butler's effort on defense, it was there but he didn't have one offensive play called for him for the first half quarter of him being back which led to him getting pissed and saying **** it, you could see it at the start of the possession he put up the 1 legged 3. Bam did say something to him and Butler threw out his hands and said something back, maybe something along the lines of he doesn't want me to score anyway. So he came back with good effort and wasn't utilized and then things went downhill from that, starting with that 1 legged 3.

Ethan on 5 Reasons mentioned someone telling him to go back and watch the first 6 1/2 minutes of the NO game, not sure he did or if he did wanted to say Butler was trying then, so I went and watched it and was surprised that Butler was giving effort at that time (since he went to coast mode after that). This isn't the first time Butler's not been schemed for much in the 1st quarter, so I didn't think too much of it but obviously he did.

[AirP.]

When Beal was originally available I was on board with going after him to pair with Butler and Bam. At this point I don't think he's any better than Herro and I don't really see how they'd compliment each other. Beal really can't play SF either. I guess if Heat figure a motivated Beal with an extra year is better than demotivated Jimmy then maybe they make the deal? It would pretty much kill all flexibility and I don't think Bam or Herro have enough upside paired with Beal to be an elite team in the East.

Ingram is the guy that intrigues me. 27 years old and longer wingspan and standing reach than anyone on Heat's roster other than Ware.

Beal is redundant to Herro and also a much worse value, but wouldn't Beal's game work in this high volume 3pt offense? If Miami is trying to run Herro at point, they could just have Beal running the point depending on who had the tougher full court defender on them. If you have Herro and Beal on opposites sides of the court, that's a pretty dangerous duo in the offense Spoelstra's running. The contract is the issue and the ability for Miami's FO to pivot hard this summer or next, Beal's contract messes that up.

[MartyConlonJr]

Bam has explained what was said with the one legged three, I'm paraphrasing but I think it was this:

Bam: That was wild.
Jimmy: I usually make em (shrugs).
Bam: Well make them then.

[greg4012]

I didn't really think what Riley said in the offseason was that bad or should have gotten Butler upset. What did Riley say that wasn't true? Am I the only one who thinks it wasn't that bad?

Also, I'm wondering if some of these guys tune out their agents when it comes to advice. If what Jimmy really wanted was another 2-3 year max deal wouldn't it be more beneficial to him to leave his options open when it comes to teams he is willing to play for? If the reports are true that he only wants to play for the Suns then he's really backing himself in to a corner. Of course, none of us know what is really going on behind closed doors.

It was a nothing burger that made from some offseason media headlines (gotta generate clicks) and made for convenient window dressing narrative to add to the mix for Jimmy's grievances. His real and sole issue is just wanting unlimited max contracts and the Heat not accommodating it on demand.

Then what's the issue with Butler playing without joy? Just bench him if he's not giving effort. Try to get both parties to agree to send him home until he's traded. No, they suspended him after saying he wasn't finding joy playing basketball for Miami.

Miami wants that cap space, they're even saying it now with what they want in trades and going young but saying they want to "contend". Either Riley knew what he was doing going after Butler in the press to get Butler to try to force his way out or he really screwed up by helping to create this situation for no reason. It's one of the 2.

I think Miami would love a fully bought in Jimmy leading the team at 30% usage available throughout the regular season and into postseason

[unowen85]

Bam has explained what was said with the one legged three, I'm paraphrasing but I think it was this:

Bam: That was wild.
Jimmy: I usually make em (shrugs).
Bam: Well make them then.

Bam is getting on people to make their shots? While shooting like 40%?

[al bondiga]

OMG the drama

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bam has explained what was said with the one legged three, I'm paraphrasing but I think it was this:

Bam: That was wild.
Jimmy: I usually make em (shrugs).
Bam: Well make them then.

Bam OWNS Jimmy, unowen, Beenie, and marson

[AirP.]

It was a nothing burger that made from some offseason media headlines (gotta generate clicks) and made for convenient window dressing narrative to add to the mix for Jimmy's grievances. His real and sole issue is just wanting unlimited max contracts and the Heat not accommodating it on demand.

Then what's the issue with Butler playing without joy? Just bench him if he's not giving effort. Try to get both parties to agree to send him home until he's traded. No, they suspended him after saying he wasn't finding joy playing basketball for Miami.

Miami wants that cap space, they're even saying it now with what they want in trades and going young but saying they want to "contend". Either Riley knew what he was doing going after Butler in the press to get Butler to try to force his way out or he really screwed up by helping to create this situation for no reason. It's one of the 2.

I think Miami would love a fully bought in Jimmy leading the team at 30% usage available throughout the regular season and into postseason

Are you sure? In this new offense? Spoelstra said in training camp that Butler and Bam needed to figure out how to be aggressive in the offense, that statement doesn't seem to indicate putting Butler or Bam in a situation to do a whole lot. Bam's struggled a lot early on to the point where they said screw the 3pt line, take your midrangers, he's still trying to figure out where to get his shots, so I'm not so sure Butler knows where he should get his shots outside of breaking down the offense to do his own thing. Just looking at Butler's offense in his first game back from sickens, he touched the ball a couple times early on to do a handoff and dive to the basket and really nothing else, his FTs came from him rebounding the ball, tossing the ball to Bam and getting the ball back while he streaked towards the basket.

To me, it seems Miami/Spoelstra are going in a different direction with the offense and with more and more of the players able to shoot 3s well, it's probably the right long term direction but that also puts Butler and even Bam in a bad sitiuation as bad fits for that offense.

[Hoops3355]

OK.... looks like a lot of people disagree with me regarding Riley's statement.

How about the second part.... do you think a lot of these guys are tuning out their agents. If Jimmy's main priority is another max contract you'd think the best option would not be to limit himself to a small list (or even only one) team. You'd think his agent would advise him of that, right? So are players tuning their agents out or getting bad advice.

Unless of course agent has already reached out and confirmed one team (Suns) are the only team willing to give Jimmy the money he wants.

Jimmy best option of getting paid is PHX. No ONE else is maxing him, He really is the first victim of the new CBA. Owners aren't about turning this into who spends the most wins which is clearly working so far. His agent is dumb because he clearly didn't lay out the paths for Jimmy when the new CBA dropped and HOW important it was for him to perform to ensure that Miami was like we should pay you. (WHICH IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN RILEY WAS LETTING YOU WALK BRO. JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU 1 LAST RUN WITH THE YOUNG LADS)

I posted this earlier and it could have changed but like that was what it looked like this summer.

1. Brooklyn Nets: $49.5M | 2. Houston Rockets: $30.6M | 3. Washington Wizards: $25.2M | 4. Utah Jazz: $23.9M (w/o Markkanen) | 5. San Antonio Spurs: $23.2M

THE NETS WELCOME JIMMY to add to their roster consisting of ......

[greg4012]

Then what's the issue with Butler playing without joy? Just bench him if he's not giving effort. Try to get both parties to agree to send him home until he's traded. No, they suspended him after saying he wasn't finding joy playing basketball for Miami.

Miami wants that cap space, they're even saying it now with what they want in trades and going young but saying they want to "contend". Either Riley knew what he was doing going after Butler in the press to get Butler to try to force his way out or he really screwed up by helping to create this situation for no reason. It's one of the 2.

I think Miami would love a fully bought in Jimmy leading the team at 30% usage available throughout the regular season and into postseason

Are you sure? In this new offense? Spoelstra said in training camp that Butler and Bam needed to figure out how to be aggressive in the offense, that statement doesn't seem to indicate putting Butler or Bam in a situation to do a whole lot. Bam's struggled a lot early on to the point where they said screw the 3pt line, take your midrangers, he's still trying to figure out where to get his shots, so I'm not so sure Butler knows where he should get his shots outside of breaking down the offense to do his own thing. Just looking at Butler's offense in his first game back from sickens, he touched the ball a couple times early on to do a handoff and dive to the basket and really nothing else, his FTs came from him rebounding the ball, tossing the ball to Bam and getting the ball back while he streaked towards the basket.

To me, it seems Miami/Spoelstra are going in a different direction with the offense and with more and more of the players able to shoot 3s well, it's probably the right long term direction but that also puts Butler and even Bam in a bad sitiuation as bad fits for that offense.

Yes, Im sure if there was a willingness by Jimmy to take it on that it would be welcomed. He's never been that guy for the course of a season unfortunately. Every other top 20 NBA player has been. It makes it harder to shape an offense deferential to him. That has been a bind for this entire construct.

Any shift in offensive approach has been compelled by track record of needing to not expect Jimmy to be the high usage #1 option that every other top 20 player in the NBA takes on. And the whole availability thing.

Bam should never be the 30%+ usage guy on a contending team, so referring to him is conflation and distraction imo.

[AirP.]

I think Miami would love a fully bought in Jimmy leading the team at 30% usage available throughout the regular season and into postseason

Are you sure? In this new offense? Spoelstra said in training camp that Butler and Bam needed to figure out how to be aggressive in the offense, that statement doesn't seem to indicate putting Butler or Bam in a situation to do a whole lot. Bam's struggled a lot early on to the point where they said screw the 3pt line, take your midrangers, he's still trying to figure out where to get his shots, so I'm not so sure Butler knows where he should get his shots outside of breaking down the offense to do his own thing. Just looking at Butler's offense in his first game back from sickens, he touched the ball a couple times early on to do a handoff and dive to the basket and really nothing else, his FTs came from him rebounding the ball, tossing the ball to Bam and getting the ball back while he streaked towards the basket.

To me, it seems Miami/Spoelstra are going in a different direction with the offense and with more and more of the players able to shoot 3s well, it's probably the right long term direction but that also puts Butler and even Bam in a bad sitiuation as bad fits for that offense.

Yes, Im sure if there was a willingness by Jimmy to take it on that it would be welcomed. He's never been that guy for the course of a season unfortunately. Every other top 20 NBA player has been. It makes it harder to shape an offense deferential to him. That has been a bind for this entire construct.

Any shift in offensive approach has been compelled by track record of needing to not expect Jimmy to be the high usage #1 option that every other top 20 player in the NBA takes on. And the whole availability thing.

Bam should never be the 30%+ usage guy on a contending team, so referring to him is conflation and distraction imo.

Ah, you mean just be a scorer which he's never been. Gotcha but like you mentioned, he's never been that.

It's not unfortunate how he plays, it just takes putting the right player next to him and Bam, that player was Dragic, a vet scorer they could rely on, but Miami never went out and acquired that guy after Dragic's injury, it didn't even need to be a star, just a consistant scorer vs hope someone would score outside of those other 2, say a guy like CJ McCollum could have fit that bill a few years ago. To me that's all Miami had to do, find some vet scorer they could rely on in the playoffs and they never did. Now it's time to pivot which started with just using draft picks and this season, a change to the offense. I do miss Miami playing through Bam like did 3-4 years ago. How do you make a player more dangerous in an offense when they're not a good scorer/shooter, you put the ball in their hands and let them make plays (if they can and Bam could/can).