Suns get creative to find another first

[winforlose]

Even if they could make this legal, does Miami really take Beal + 2031 denver 1st for Jimmy? Or are there more PHX 1sts to be included?

They have one they can trade.

Now will Miami and Beal both go for that? Your guess is as good as mine(or better probably lol).

It makes no logistical sense for Miami to do that, though. I don't think there's any way Miami agrees to take the worst contract in the league.

The logic is that Butler offers are all negative now. You bring Butler back after the suspension and he will sabotage the team until he gets what he wants. So you send him home and get nothing. Then he opts in, and demands a trade, or opts out as part of a sign and trade and Miami still has a bad trade hand.

The counter argument is that Beal is so bad, that tying your hands with the worst contract in the NBA for 2 extra years is a problem. Moreover with an NTC you cannot move on from Beal. Worse still, Jimmy coming off the books and declining Rozier makes roster room if they want to look in free agency.

Is Beals money so bad it is worth more than 2 firsts in 2031. The answer is YES!. Miami should say no.

[LightTheBeam]

They have one they can trade.

Now will Miami and Beal both go for that? Your guess is as good as mine(or better probably lol).

It makes no logistical sense for Miami to do that, though. I don't think there's any way Miami agrees to take the worst contract in the league.

The logic is that Butler offers are all negative now. You bring Butler back after the suspension and he will sabotage the team until he gets what he wants. So you send him home and get nothing. Then he opts in, and demands a trade, or opts out as part of a sign and trade and Miami still has a bad trade hand.

The counter argument is that Beal is so bad, that tying your hands with the worst contract in the NBA for 2 extra years is a problem. Moreover with an NTC you cannot move on from Beal. Worse still, Jimmy coming off the books and declining Rozier makes roster room if they want to look in free agency.

Is Beals money so bad it is worth more than 2 firsts in 2031. The answer is YES!. Miami should say no.

That is an interesting game of chicken. Riley seems as stubborn as Jimmy. Ultimately I think Jimmy wouldn't let it go that far.

I will never understand these players. Guy seems like the ultimate competitor, already made close to 400 million in his career, and could have a chance to join the Rockets, Memphis, Milwaukee. But he turns that down because he wants to play on a team that is 16-18 but will offer him the max?

[BBallFreak]

It makes no logistical sense for Miami to do that, though. I don't think there's any way Miami agrees to take the worst contract in the league.

The logic is that Butler offers are all negative now. You bring Butler back after the suspension and he will sabotage the team until he gets what he wants. So you send him home and get nothing. Then he opts in, and demands a trade, or opts out as part of a sign and trade and Miami still has a bad trade hand.

The counter argument is that Beal is so bad, that tying your hands with the worst contract in the NBA for 2 extra years is a problem. Moreover with an NTC you cannot move on from Beal. Worse still, Jimmy coming off the books and declining Rozier makes roster room if they want to look in free agency.

Is Beals money so bad it is worth more than 2 firsts in 2031. The answer is YES!. Miami should say no.

That is an interesting game of chicken. Riley seems as stubborn as Jimmy. Ultimately I think Jimmy wouldn't let it go that far.

I will never understand these players. Guy seems like the ultimate competitor, already made close to 400 million in his career, and could have a chance to join the Rockets, Memphis, Milwaukee. But he turns that down because he wants to play on a team that is 16-18 but will offer him the max?

What kills me about this is Jimmy could have formally requested the trade, given Miami a lost of teams, made it known behind the scenes that he really wanted out now, but been a professional, and he'd probably already be gone.

[winforlose]

The logic is that Butler offers are all negative now. You bring Butler back after the suspension and he will sabotage the team until he gets what he wants. So you send him home and get nothing. Then he opts in, and demands a trade, or opts out as part of a sign and trade and Miami still has a bad trade hand.

The counter argument is that Beal is so bad, that tying your hands with the worst contract in the NBA for 2 extra years is a problem. Moreover with an NTC you cannot move on from Beal. Worse still, Jimmy coming off the books and declining Rozier makes roster room if they want to look in free agency.

Is Beals money so bad it is worth more than 2 firsts in 2031. The answer is YES!. Miami should say no.

That is an interesting game of chicken. Riley seems as stubborn as Jimmy. Ultimately I think Jimmy wouldn't let it go that far.

I will never understand these players. Guy seems like the ultimate competitor, already made close to 400 million in his career, and could have a chance to join the Rockets, Memphis, Milwaukee. But he turns that down because he wants to play on a team that is 16-18 but will offer him the max?

What kills me about this is Jimmy could have formally requested the trade, given Miami a lost of teams, made it known behind the scenes that he really wanted out now, but been a professional, and he'd probably already be gone.

He did give a list, those teams all don’t want him. Then he comes out and says I will take any team. Now hoopshype has posts saying he told the Bucks and Griz not to bid on him. Jimmy is an *****le and he did the same stuff in Minnesota. He would have done bad **** in Philly if he wasn’t expiring and having Miami waiting in the wings.

[BlackThought]

Beal is going to retire as a Sun. The only way for Phoenix to trade Beal is to attach multiple firsts which they can only get through trading either Durant/Booker. But if they are trading Durant/Booker, they might as well just keep Beal around for the rebuild.

[ejftw]

Nnaji would probably be the Suns best option at Center as well. Wild to think of that as a possibility

And my fellow Clipper fans will exile me for this, but if those seconds are routed to the Clippers for Bones and Bamba (maybe add in a third second, two for Nnaji and one for Bones?) for Nnaji, I could live with that. Allows us to convert Jordan to a standard contract and salary that can be used for ballast this summer.

But, with the apron issues, Phoenix would probably be better off keeping Zeke as ballast themselves while hoping he remembers how to play again

[Xman]

Series of deals:
Den gets Grayson for saric, nnaji, minimal guy (Jordan?) and picks as listed above.
Was sends JVal to phx for saric nnaji
Was gets Beal, Mia gets Brogdon, kuzma: phx gets butler.
Net-
Mia gets Brogdon and kuzma (could sub in Poole for either) for butler. Probably best they can hope for.
Den gets Grayson for saric, nnaji and Jordan and 2031 first. Can add seconds if needed.
Phx gets JVal, Jordan and butler for Beal, Grayson and all picks available.
Washington gets saric, nnaji, Beal, unprotected picks from phx and Denver. Think Beal would go back?

[BelgradeNugget]

I wouldn't do it for the Nuggets. I like idea of trading Nuggets 2031 1 st + bench players for bench improvement because starters are fine, but Nuggets have Julian Strawther as bench shooter/scorer and Watson as backup 3/4 defending wings, so no need for Allen. And no need to sell me Allen I like him, but no need for him in Denver. Nuggets need backup big. Getting rid of Nnaji would be fine but it is not priority No1.

[BelgradeNugget]

Apron rules prevent this regardless.

just need denver to send a min player to another team

True and pay another team to do it making the trade even more expensive. I really don't love the target honestly, I think Bruan is already as good if not better and like Watson too. If Allen could play up more then I would like it more. I know Denver should make some kind of move but I just don't like this one overall, but understand that moving Nnaji is going to cost so this might be the best of what they can do even if I don't love it.

Edit...after typing that out....Denver likely has to do it.

I agree Denver doesn't need Allen. What if Nuggets move is

Nnaji, Cancar, 2031 1st for
Aldama, Konchar?

or

Saric, 2031 1st for
Aldama, 2 2nds?

[gswhoops]

It makes no logistical sense for Miami to do that, though. I don't think there's any way Miami agrees to take the worst contract in the league.

The logic is that Butler offers are all negative now. You bring Butler back after the suspension and he will sabotage the team until he gets what he wants. So you send him home and get nothing. Then he opts in, and demands a trade, or opts out as part of a sign and trade and Miami still has a bad trade hand.

The counter argument is that Beal is so bad, that tying your hands with the worst contract in the NBA for 2 extra years is a problem. Moreover with an NTC you cannot move on from Beal. Worse still, Jimmy coming off the books and declining Rozier makes roster room if they want to look in free agency.

Is Beals money so bad it is worth more than 2 firsts in 2031. The answer is YES!. Miami should say no.

That is an interesting game of chicken. Riley seems as stubborn as Jimmy. Ultimately I think Jimmy wouldn't let it go that far.

I will never understand these players. Guy seems like the ultimate competitor, already made close to 400 million in his career, and could have a chance to join the Rockets, Memphis, Milwaukee. But he turns that down because he wants to play on a team that is 16-18 but will offer him the max?

I feel like an underrated element of the discussion here is money as a proxy for ego. Butler still sees himself as a max player and wants to get paid like a max player. You don't get to the NBA without having a pretty healthy ego and Butler is no exception.

[psman2]

just need denver to send a min player to another team

True and pay another team to do it making the trade even more expensive. I really don't love the target honestly, I think Bruan is already as good if not better and like Watson too. If Allen could play up more then I would like it more. I know Denver should make some kind of move but I just don't like this one overall, but understand that moving Nnaji is going to cost so this might be the best of what they can do even if I don't love it.

Edit...after typing that out....Denver likely has to do it.

I agree Denver doesn't need Allen. What if Nuggets move is

Nnaji, Cancar, 2031 1st for
Aldama, Konchar?

or

Saric, 2031 1st for
Aldama, 2 2nds?

Not the 1st for sure. Konchar is not a negative contract that we need to get off but Nnaji would be.

The 2nd offer would have to have some attractive protections for us to include 2nds back. I think right now the plan is resign Aldama to a market value deal and be part of our 8 man rotation for years to come. But we also have GG Jackson that might play himself into a bigger role ahead of Aldama in time. So I think we will listen to offers for him and weigh that versus keeping him, odds are we keep him and hope his RFA status results in a team friendly deal.

[Scoot McGroot]

That is an interesting game of chicken. Riley seems as stubborn as Jimmy. Ultimately I think Jimmy wouldn't let it go that far.

I will never understand these players. Guy seems like the ultimate competitor, already made close to 400 million in his career, and could have a chance to join the Rockets, Memphis, Milwaukee. But he turns that down because he wants to play on a team that is 16-18 but will offer him the max?

What kills me about this is Jimmy could have formally requested the trade, given Miami a lost of teams, made it known behind the scenes that he really wanted out now, but been a professional, and he'd probably already be gone.

He did give a list, those teams all don’t want him. Then he comes out and says I will take any team. Now hoopshype has posts saying he told the Bucks and Griz not to bid on him. Jimmy is an *****le and he did the same stuff in Minnesota. He would have done bad **** in Philly if he wasn’t expiring and having Miami waiting in the wings.

There’s no formal trade request process in the nba. The only rule is a player shouldn’t publicly request a trade, which it’s possible to argue Jimmy still hasn’t.

As for a list of teams, I think Jimmy and his guys have probably made it clear that they would want to go to any team that will give him a full max extension, of which Phoenix is the only team that apparently is willing to commit to?

This situation sucks for all involved. However, it’s Jimmy. Everyone knew this was possible. And isn’t he only in Miami to begin with because he did essentially the same thing to Philly to get to Miami? It’s kind of to be expected from him? And if he goes to Phoenix, I would imagine we’ll hear of it happening again?

[Texas Chuck]

I'm still a bit befuddled and bemused that we have veteran posters here who still seem to believe in some "purity" of sports and think a player is wrong for wanting to maximize his income. This happens in every industry all the time and you guys never bat an eye. In fact you probably think good on people for getting their cut of the corporate profits.

But somehow this action in sports is seen as low character by some of you. The same guys who believe their team governor is just serving the community by having this team and has no interest in money despite these team values continuing to soar and many of them ducking taxes like its their job.

Just can't wrap my mind around this mindsight really. Its fine for players like David West to give up money to chase a ring because he decided thats whats most important to him. Cool. Also cool for Butler to say my priority is my money not how some guys on the internet judge my legacy.

[BBallFreak]

I'm still a bit befuddled and bemused that we have veteran posters here who still seem to believe in some "purity" of sports and think a player is wrong for wanting to maximize his income. This happens in every industry all the time and you guys never bat an eye. In fact you probably think good on people for getting their cut of the corporate profits.

But somehow this action in sports is seen as low character by some of you. The same guys who believe their team governor is just serving the community by having this team and has no interest in money despite these team values continuing to soar and many of them ducking taxes like its their job.

Just can't wrap my mind around this mindsight really. Its fine for players like David West to give up money to chase a ring because he decided thats whats most important to him. Cool. Also cool for Butler to say my priority is my money not how some guys on the internet judge my legacy.

I had no problems with Jimmy until he started quitting on the court. I would have been fine with him being traded and getting his money. Would have rooted for him on his new team if it wasn't going to be us. Then he decided to pull a Jimmy and now I just want him gone. I hope he gets his money and never wins again.

[BelgradeNugget]

True and pay another team to do it making the trade even more expensive. I really don't love the target honestly, I think Bruan is already as good if not better and like Watson too. If Allen could play up more then I would like it more. I know Denver should make some kind of move but I just don't like this one overall, but understand that moving Nnaji is going to cost so this might be the best of what they can do even if I don't love it.

Edit...after typing that out....Denver likely has to do it.

I agree Denver doesn't need Allen. What if Nuggets move is

Nnaji, Cancar, 2031 1st for
Aldama, Konchar?

or

Saric, 2031 1st for
Aldama, 2 2nds?

Not the 1st for sure. Konchar is not a negative contract that we need to get off but Nnaji would be.

The 2nd offer would have to have some attractive protections for us to include 2nds back. I think right now the plan is resign Aldama to a market value deal and be part of our 8 man rotation for years to come. But we also have GG Jackson that might play himself into a bigger role ahead of Aldama in time. So I think we will listen to offers for him and weight that versus keeping him, odds are we keep him and hope his RFA status results in a team friendly deal.

Help please

1 what do you think will be Aldama's market value deal
2 what protections would be fair for nuggets 2031 1st and how much would you give back (1 or 2 2nds, which one of 2nd you have)

I know your rotation and aboundance of good bigs you have under contract (JJJ, Edey, GG Jackson, Clarke, Huff). I think that is only reason Aldama might be avilable.

Not trying to sell you Nnaji but he was better than Huff in Denver, if used corectly can be strech big who is good 3pt shooter, swichable, good shot-blocker defending the rim, great ofensive rebounder, teribble defensive rebounder, never use in pnr as roller (I know you don't play much of pnr). If anyone can revive his career it is Jennings.

Also Konchar is good player, but behind Bane, Wells, Smart, LaRavia, Kennard...1st option would be replacing one long term contract (3 years) for other (4 years, declining). No need to give anything back, but I understand why you are reluctant to get into it.

So please answer about 2nd option.

[psman2]

I agree Denver doesn't need Allen. What if Nuggets move is

Nnaji, Cancar, 2031 1st for
Aldama, Konchar?

or

Saric, 2031 1st for
Aldama, 2 2nds?

Not the 1st for sure. Konchar is not a negative contract that we need to get off but Nnaji would be.

The 2nd offer would have to have some attractive protections for us to include 2nds back. I think right now the plan is resign Aldama to a market value deal and be part of our 8 man rotation for years to come. But we also have GG Jackson that might play himself into a bigger role ahead of Aldama in time. So I think we will listen to offers for him and weight that versus keeping him, odds are we keep him and hope his RFA status results in a team friendly deal.

Help please

1 what do you think will be Aldama's market value deal
2 what protections would be fair for nuggets 2031 1st and how much would you give back (1 or 2 2nds, which one of 2nd you have)

I know your rotation and aboundance of good bigs you have under contract (JJJ, Edey, GG Jackson, Clarke, Huff). I think that is only reason Aldama might be avilable.

Not trying to sell you Nnaji but he was better than Huff in Denver, if used corectly can be strech big who is good 3pt shooter, swichable, good shot-blocker defending the rim, great ofensive rebounder, teribble defensive rebounder, never use in pnr as roller (I know you don't play much of pnr). If anyone can revive his career it is Jennings.

Also Konchar is good player, but behind Bane, Wells, Smart, LaRavia, Kennard...1st option would be replacing one long term contract (3 years) for other (4 years, declining). No need to give anything back, but I understand why you are reluctant to get into it.

So please answer about 2nd option.

Assuming Aldama plays out the season like he has played so far then I think he will get more than the MLE next season. I think anything under 20m and Memphis will not hesitate to match. If I had to guess right now we are looking at a 4/75 million deal, maybe we can get it descending as well. Now there is a chance that a team could come in really high (4/100+) and we choose not to match, I like him next to Wemby in SA for example. So there is some risk but I think it is small enough were we are comfortable with his RFA status.

I think if we are sending 2nds back now and waiting 6 years for a pick then the protections will likely need to be something as enticing as top 10/8/4.

Nnaji just would never been considered here, with our team likely on the verge of being a tax team just no reason for us to have a long term dead contract on the books when we don't have to. Huff is not the same player he was in Denver where he played a total of 49 minutes. He has wildly outperformed our expectation in a large enough sample size and imo is one of the better backup centers in the league, especially when you take his contract into consideration. Nnaji would have to drastically improve for us to consider him earning minutes over him, just not a bet we would take.

We would be open to moving Konchar for an expiring and if needed in the future even including a 2nd(s)/cash to move him if we need the cap relief. But LaRavia is likely gone next season due to him outplaying what we can legally offer.... Then If Aldama is traded.... and Kennard could easily be gone next season too... then Konchar very easy could again be part of our 9/10 man rotation until the youth takes his spot again. We have no problems plugging in Konchar wherever needed, he is a luxury to have. I think Konchar could easily be a rotation player for a lot of playoff teams, we are just so deep that finding him enough minutes here is hard.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Even if they could make this legal, does Miami really take Beal + 2031 denver 1st for Jimmy? Or are there more PHX 1sts to be included?

They have one they can trade.

Now will Miami and Beal both go for that? Your guess is as good as mine(or better probably lol).

It makes no logistical sense for Miami to do that, though. I don't think there's any way Miami agrees to take the worst contract in the league.

Paul George exists. I honestly could care less about Butler with this trade. Even if both these 2 players stink, they help with the height issue & we get a 1st. Send Okogie + 2nds for Richards & we at least become a more balanced team. Not playing cat & mouse with the Heat. They want cap space in 26, Beal has a NTC & would turn down the 3rd team because he wants to ho to Miami.