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All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0

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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#121 » by three3d » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:06 pm

eyriq wrote:
Skybox wrote:Just some comps for discussion and perspective. Lavine & Beal have absurd contracts - but if not for that, would be considered excellent offensive players. I did last 4 seasons, including this one, for all stats except for games played - which I used last 3 full seasons....

Player /Age Games PPG Assists 3pt apg 3pt % Remaining contract (after this year)

Bradley Beal / 31 47.7 20.6 4.6 4.9 37.2 $111m over 2 years :o

Zach Lavine / 29 56 23 4.3 7.1 39.3 $95m over 2 years

CJ McCollum / 33 67.7 21.3 4.8 7.9 39.4 $30.7m for one year

Anfernee Simons / 25 55 19.9 4.7 8.4 38 $27.7m for one year

Collin Sexton / 26 45.7 16.7 3.5 3.9 36.6 $19.2m for one year

*Beal & Lavine are not under consideration just based on salary, imo...I think the other 3 are all candidates for a substantial 6th man role for ORL. You can see that Simons' offensive production has been among some pretty strong company and proven over time. He's also the youngest. I think all 3 of the "candidates" would consider re-signing for $20m per or so when their present deals expire and would thrive in roles where their offensive strengths would be applied and their defensive weaknesses would be minimized by pairing next to guys like AB, Suggs & KCP. Any of them would have to subjugate their previous on-ball time with the understanding that Paolo & Franz are numbers 1 & 2 in the offensive pecking order. Suggs would, hopefully, continue to grow as an offensive player, but be slightly relieved of the burden of trying to playmake and score on a level he's just not cut out for. I like Sexton a lot but his offensive efficiency is kind of a recent development, not as proven over time as the younger Simons.
Interesting stuff. Beal and LaVine have all-star pedigree and are paid for it but have consistently fallen short of all-star production. McCollum and Simons are paid like core players but their teams haven't performed well at all. Sexton is paid to be a 4th starter.

All good scorers and offensive threats. All in mid to terrible teams. All overpaid as a percentage of the cap. Given that our guard rotation projects to be Suggs, KCP, and AB, most would struggle to make our 2027 eight man rotation.

That said, we could and probably should kick the tires on Simons and Sexton. There is a risk that extension talks break down and we lose them for nothing, which is why we shouldn't pay much for them. Jett is the in-house option. Sexton would be making around the same salary as our 6th as does now, eo maybe he can stomach the lost compensation as a % of the cap. Simons would likely need to take a $10M haircut. Is being part of our championship run worth it? He's going to take a pay cut on his next deal either way IMO, he's drastically overpaid.



What’s the tax rate on Simons income like in Portland compared to what it would be like here in Florida? That did factor into how much of a raise or cut he’d be getting or taking.

Technically, speaking with no state income tax he could take less but still make the same
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#122 » by Rainwater » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:08 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:I think it's not whether or not people like him or his defense.... it comes down to how much people want to give up for him. And some people value certain players on our team more highly than others. Like... personally.... the second you drop the names AB and Howard.... i might be stepping back from the trade. If they believe in the players that they drafted and think they drafted correctly... whether or not there have been ups and downs in their short time in the league.... they're holding onto them. If they know what those players are and are over it.... then that's fine. But.... not if they believe there is more to those players. And yup... cost matters. having to string some low salary potential players into the deal shoots us in the foot for the future... as Simons probably won't be retainable after next year when he asks for more than his current $25 million salary.

Wouldn't be surprised if we flop salaries of black and KCP in the next two years.... Howard takes the money of Cole and harris.... etc. But... this all hinges on what the FO projects of them and that supercedes what we might currently value them from the outside.


While I get not wanting to trade Black, i don’t know why Howard is hindering anyone from making a trade that improves this team. Howard isn’t good, lol.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#123 » by Skybox » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:11 pm

Regarding Simons' big upcoming raise :noway: ...if multiple teams were in hot pursuit, he'd have been moved over a year ago.

I think everyone sees the same concerns we do on here...there has to be significant interest by others to make an overpay necessary (unless you're Fultz, Cole, WCJ, Isaac, etc)
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#124 » by Rainwater » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:11 pm

I would love Simons in the Cole role who can also step in the PG spot. If we can get him for Cole, Howard, and a 1st that would be great.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#125 » by Skybox » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:18 pm

Rainwater wrote:I would love Simons in the Cole role who can also step in the PG spot. If we can get him for Cole, Howard, and a 1st that would be great.


Nearly a free giant upgrade...you just don't get to add so much for so little for such a good fit very often. Weltman has us in position to not only plug a hole, but have so much upside that it could turn into much much more.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#126 » by Rainwater » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:20 pm

Skybox wrote:
Rainwater wrote:I would love Simons in the Cole role who can also step in the PG spot. If we can get him for Cole, Howard, and a 1st that would be great.


Nearly a free giant upgrade...you just don't get to add so much for so little for such a good fit very often. Weltman has us in position to not only plug a hole, but have so much upside that it could turn into much much more.


I agree but I don’t know if he will do it though.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#127 » by VFX » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:47 pm

three3d wrote:Honest question for anyone. What exactly would you pay for a player that had Jalen Suggs defense with Anfernee Simons offensive ability all rolled into one package? If the answer is a lot why wouldn’t you take the alternative of just having Suggs and Simons together in the front court?


Again, the problem with this is the existence of KCP and the front office investing heavily into AB despite the production. They spent two lottery picks on guys that should be in the back court for significant minutes.

It’s a crazy amount of money/assets tied up into a back court that just isn’t great but is more balanced with Simons/Suggs. Yeah, I like it at face value. But they spent a #6 pick on a perpetual backup and a boat load of money on a backup wing? The move is admitting defeat and negligence on some level.

And I cannot take posters seriously saying they want Simons in Cole’s role… Cole hasn’t played real minutes this season up until AB was injured. The FO isn’t paying some dude $26m to be a third string PG while AB is being groomed to start at some point in the near future.

This move should have been made 2-3 seasons ago, and it wasn’t… too **** bad huh? This is why people bitch about this FO failing to make decisions within a reasonable timeframe. They chose to overpay mediocre backups and stopgaps instead.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#128 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Jan 8, 2025 6:58 pm

Rainwater wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:I think it's not whether or not people like him or his defense.... it comes down to how much people want to give up for him. And some people value certain players on our team more highly than others. Like... personally.... the second you drop the names AB and Howard.... i might be stepping back from the trade. If they believe in the players that they drafted and think they drafted correctly... whether or not there have been ups and downs in their short time in the league.... they're holding onto them. If they know what those players are and are over it.... then that's fine. But.... not if they believe there is more to those players. And yup... cost matters. having to string some low salary potential players into the deal shoots us in the foot for the future... as Simons probably won't be retainable after next year when he asks for more than his current $25 million salary.

Wouldn't be surprised if we flop salaries of black and KCP in the next two years.... Howard takes the money of Cole and harris.... etc. But... this all hinges on what the FO projects of them and that supercedes what we might currently value them from the outside.


While I get not wanting to trade Black, i don’t know why Howard is hindering anyone from making a trade that improves this team. Howard isn’t good, lol.

As i said.... depend what the FO project for him. This is his first legit season with the team.... and is 21 yo. i'm not going to judge him off of the few minutes he gets to play here and there... in games. There will most likely be more to his assessment. He has the foundation for a quality shooting, playmaking, and effort on defense. I can easily see a world where we trade him and returns to drain 6 threes and everyone just looks at him and goes.... :banghead: "We had him"
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#129 » by Skybox » Wed Jan 8, 2025 7:21 pm

VFX wrote:
three3d wrote:Honest question for anyone. What exactly would you pay for a player that had Jalen Suggs defense with Anfernee Simons offensive ability all rolled into one package? If the answer is a lot why wouldn’t you take the alternative of just having Suggs and Simons together in the front court?


Again, the problem with this is the existence of KCP and the front office investing heavily into AB despite the production. They spent two lottery picks on guys that should be in the back court for significant minutes.

It’s a crazy amount of money/assets tied up into a back court that just isn’t great but is more balanced with Simons/Suggs. Yeah, I like it at face value. But they spent a #6 pick on a perpetual backup and a boat load of money on a backup wing? The move is admitting defeat and negligence on some level.

And I cannot take posters seriously saying they want Simons in Cole’s role… Cole hasn’t played real minutes this season up until AB was injured. The FO isn’t paying some dude $26m to be a third string PG while AB is being groomed to start at some point in the near future.
.


Don't remember anyone suggesting this role :nonono:

3rd string PG?
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#130 » by VFX » Wed Jan 8, 2025 7:28 pm

Skybox wrote:
VFX wrote:
three3d wrote:Honest question for anyone. What exactly would you pay for a player that had Jalen Suggs defense with Anfernee Simons offensive ability all rolled into one package? If the answer is a lot why wouldn’t you take the alternative of just having Suggs and Simons together in the front court?


Again, the problem with this is the existence of KCP and the front office investing heavily into AB despite the production. They spent two lottery picks on guys that should be in the back court for significant minutes.

It’s a crazy amount of money/assets tied up into a back court that just isn’t great but is more balanced with Simons/Suggs. Yeah, I like it at face value. But they spent a #6 pick on a perpetual backup and a boat load of money on a backup wing? The move is admitting defeat and negligence on some level.

And I cannot take posters seriously saying they want Simons in Cole’s role… Cole hasn’t played real minutes this season up until AB was injured. The FO isn’t paying some dude $26m to be a third string PG while AB is being groomed to start at some point in the near future.
.


Don't remember anyone suggesting this role :nonono:

3rd string PG?


Cole Anthony and Anthony Black have split backup minutes this season. Realistically only one of these guys is coming off the bench if you are spending this kind of salary cap on Simons. Simons is never coming off the bench for that amount, KCP would in that situation. Keeping everything the exact same with Simons filling in for Cole makes no sense.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#131 » by The-Stallion70 » Wed Jan 8, 2025 7:30 pm

The last time we were super patient with a pg we drafted his name was Elfrid
California Gold wrote:This is extra because people hate the Lakers and their brand so much.

This trade wasn't some conspiracy - it was just a GM wanting AD bad enough where in most people's eyes he overpaid by a long shot to get him.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#132 » by VFX » Wed Jan 8, 2025 7:36 pm

The-Stallion70 wrote:The last time we were super patient with a pg we drafted his name was Elfrid


If AB isn't starting in year 3 at some point, then its time to make some decisions.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#133 » by Skybox » Wed Jan 8, 2025 7:49 pm

VFX wrote:
Skybox wrote:
VFX wrote:
Again, the problem with this is the existence of KCP and the front office investing heavily into AB despite the production. They spent two lottery picks on guys that should be in the back court for significant minutes.

It’s a crazy amount of money/assets tied up into a back court that just isn’t great but is more balanced with Simons/Suggs. Yeah, I like it at face value. But they spent a #6 pick on a perpetual backup and a boat load of money on a backup wing? The move is admitting defeat and negligence on some level.

And I cannot take posters seriously saying they want Simons in Cole’s role… Cole hasn’t played real minutes this season up until AB was injured. The FO isn’t paying some dude $26m to be a third string PG while AB is being groomed to start at some point in the near future.
.


Don't remember anyone suggesting this role :nonono:

3rd string PG?


Cole Anthony and Anthony Black have split backup minutes this season. Realistically only one of these guys is coming off the bench if you are spending this kind of salary cap on Simons. Simons is never coming off the bench for that amount, KCP would in that situation. Keeping everything the exact same with Simons filling in for Cole makes no sense.


there's 96 mins for guards...and KCP and/or AB can pick up a few at SF if feelings are hurt. KCP and Suggs do NOT need to be playing 30 mins every night and AB hasn't earned more than 20. If the top 4 are healthy...none of the other guards should get a second unless we're up or down 25. Start with the idea that the two savage defending 100% intensity starters are getting 25 min each, with Simons getting 20-25 unless, inevitably, one of the starters can't hit the side of the barn on a given night...then Simons gets more of their minutes. It could be pretty fluid...all 4 could contribute. His salary is irrelevant to his PT...he either makes the team better or he's not a target. There are many better places to skimp on our payroll than actually having a backcourt player who can dribble the ball, shoot the ball, and pass the ball...WCJ, for instance, gives us some good minutes in reserve, but his new contract makes him a terrible investment - especially when you look at how unreliable he is. Isaac at $15m is fine - but I'd be okay with moving him out and giving the frontcourt reserve minutes to WCJ, TdS and a sprinkle of KCP/AB at SF...that's a tight, viable rotation that has the ability to match up and/or physically dominate most teams...while maybe even scoring 100+ points more often than not.

I think Simons is realistically ready to accept and excel in that role...the fact that he's overpaid and has been overtasked with carrying a bad team is not really a factor going forward. Until Paolo's extension kicks in, we have moves that can be made to unload the slowest zebras before they get eaten and just keep the strongest contributors.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#134 » by Rainwater » Wed Jan 8, 2025 9:06 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:I think it's not whether or not people like him or his defense.... it comes down to how much people want to give up for him. And some people value certain players on our team more highly than others. Like... personally.... the second you drop the names AB and Howard.... i might be stepping back from the trade. If they believe in the players that they drafted and think they drafted correctly... whether or not there have been ups and downs in their short time in the league.... they're holding onto them. If they know what those players are and are over it.... then that's fine. But.... not if they believe there is more to those players. And yup... cost matters. having to string some low salary potential players into the deal shoots us in the foot for the future... as Simons probably won't be retainable after next year when he asks for more than his current $25 million salary.

Wouldn't be surprised if we flop salaries of black and KCP in the next two years.... Howard takes the money of Cole and harris.... etc. But... this all hinges on what the FO projects of them and that supercedes what we might currently value them from the outside.


While I get not wanting to trade Black, i don’t know why Howard is hindering anyone from making a trade that improves this team. Howard isn’t good, lol.

As i said.... depend what the FO project for him. This is his first legit season with the team.... and is 21 yo. i'm not going to judge him off of the few minutes he gets to play here and there... in games. There will most likely be more to his assessment. He has the foundation for a quality shooting, playmaking, and effort on defense. I can easily see a world where we trade him and returns to drain 6 threes and everyone just looks at him and goes.... :banghead: "We had him"


I really don’t see much of a difference between him and Houston. Jett might be a playmaker but that ain’t saying much.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#135 » by orlando_joe » Wed Jan 8, 2025 9:46 pm

unless magic are sending out money that is past next yr they can not afford simons and i do not see them paying huge tax bill even next yr for him ..without sending out money from 2026/2027 payroll they will be in 2nd apron next yr period..big tax bill.
so no it will not happen .....no simons..no cj...sexton maybe but i would pass...
and those saying should have done it yrs ago what yr? it for sure without a doubt would have stunted franz and paolo and suggs..and not got them black jett or da silva ...and no kcp signing...big chain reaction never would have a top defense ...i could go on but why
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#136 » by RichCollab » Wed Jan 8, 2025 9:55 pm

What about Cole’s world? He back!
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#137 » by Skybox » Wed Jan 8, 2025 10:40 pm

orlando_joe wrote:unless magic are sending out money that is past next yr they can not afford simons and i do not see them paying huge tax bill even next yr for him ..without sending out money from 2026/2027 payroll they will be in 2nd apron next yr period..big tax bill.
so no it will not happen .....no simons..no cj...sexton maybe but i would pass...
and those saying should have done it yrs ago what yr? it for sure without a doubt would have stunted franz and paolo and suggs..and not got them black jett or da silva ...and no kcp signing...big chain reaction never would have a top defense ...i could go on but why


Agree with the bold

Imagine a world where we didn't get AB and Jett...we'd be awful..da Silva was what - 18th pick? Amazing take
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#138 » by orlando_joe » Wed Jan 8, 2025 10:47 pm

Skybox wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:unless magic are sending out money that is past next yr they can not afford simons and i do not see them paying huge tax bill even next yr for him ..without sending out money from 2026/2027 payroll they will be in 2nd apron next yr period..big tax bill.
so no it will not happen .....no simons..no cj...sexton maybe but i would pass...
and those saying should have done it yrs ago what yr? it for sure without a doubt would have stunted franz and paolo and suggs..and not got them black jett or da silva ...and no kcp signing...big chain reaction never would have a top defense ...i could go on but why


Agree with the bold

Imagine a world where we didn't get AB and Jett...we'd be awful..da Silva was what - 18th pick? Amazing take

thats what you get of it...ok...see if i am right 5 yrs running on your trades..magic will not go in 2nd apron for simons
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#139 » by DusterBuster » Wed Jan 8, 2025 10:52 pm

RichCollab wrote:Scoot hasn’t improved this year. Blazers may want Simons longer than expected. I did hear they don’t want to pay him what he is expecting for his next contract.


Where was this reported out of curiosity...

I've not heard anything in regards to what the Blazers want to do with Simons after this current contract.

In all likelihood, I would even be surprised if Simons would want to resign in Portland when he's up for a new contract tbh.
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Re: All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0 

Post#140 » by DusterBuster » Wed Jan 8, 2025 10:55 pm

Skybox wrote:Regarding Simons' big upcoming raise :noway: ...if multiple teams were in hot pursuit, he'd have been moved over a year ago.

I think everyone sees the same concerns we do on here...there has to be significant interest by others to make an overpay necessary (unless you're Fultz, Cole, WCJ, Isaac, etc)


There's zero fact to back this comment up. All indications from anyone close to the team is the Blazers have never seriously considered moving Simons.

The only time the Blazers considered moving him was pre the 2023 draft when they were "supposedly" looking to make a major trade to appease Dame Lillard before the trade demand. Outside of that, there's never been any serious rumblings that Cronin is looking to move Simons.

There was even a full team report from the Blazers beat writer that Cronin has been in contact with Simons to check if he wants to be moved, but Simons says he doesn't right now and Cronin therefore hasn't been shopping him. So yeah.... there's no evidence that comment is remotely true and plenty of evidence straight from the mouths of the GM and Simons that the opposite is.

Not wanting Simons or others is fine, but no need to make stuff up about it. It's fine to stick to reports and known facts.
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