2024-25 Regular Season Thread Vol. 3

[AirP.]

He’ll show up but still can be a pain in the ass.

Let him ruin his legacy

He’s extremely hard headed. Front office has misjudged his character up to this point.

I think they judged it perfectly and utilized it. They needed to move Butler's money to make their pivot in the summer of 2025 or 2026 and now they're not the bad guys to do it. I don't like how Riley did it but I can't say it wasn't a near perfect play to get this to where it is now. Riley's calculated in his talks to the public, he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Flash4thewin]

No. We should have just given Jimmy his extra year. We can’t even trade Beal when he’s expiring.

No Beal and No Jimmy. 2026 is the legit the best setup salary cap wise to add someone. IDGAF about a 38 year Jimmy Bulter. Just watching the squad and the young guys it's not even that crazy to see Jovic and Ware getting better after 2 seasons of full run I'm here for this.

I can't get over how bad Butler's Agent screwed this up.

In 2 seasons of development, Miami can have the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA. I know many hate this optimistic perspective. We're already seeing glimpses with the Ware-Jovic bench synergy.

Sure but let's start with playing Ware and Bam together. Thats what everyone wants, thats the main event, to see if it works or not. Jovic and Ware are nice, but thats not the main thing here. It's if Ware and Bam can play together and that only happens if Spo freaking plays them together.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I think Butler and Simmons both have put their agent in some really bad situations, but that's why he gets paid.

I think everything changed for Butler with the shut up comment. If anyone had watched the Butler interview with JJ Redick (I'm sure Riley did) they'd know it only took one overheard statement to make Butler let it be known he wasn't resigning with the 76ers which is why they picked negotiating with Harris vs Butler. It's why I keep saying, Riley knew exactly what he was doing when he told Butler through the media to shut his mouth, Butler wasn't staying after that.

Ironic how he could run his mouth in public and talk crap in front of a mic about other teams, players, and GMs, but dude can’t take it himself.

I am over this tip-toeing around his temperament and ego, especially when he isn’t consistently showing up for the team the way the top player should. He once upon a time elevated the play of his teammates and inflated their values… but as of late, he is a deflator. He is not worth the money he is seeking. He and the Suns are made for each other at this junction… too bad we ain’t facilitating it unless it benefits us.

Interesting you say that after I just watched a Dan La Batard show where Dan mentioned being physically assaulted (which he was still in pain 3 days later) by one of the people Riley brought from NY to send an what Dan said was an obvious message of not to go into a certain subject with Riley. It's at the 11 minute mark of the video below. But I'm sure that's acceptable since he was part of the Miami Heat but if a player speaks up it's an issue. Butler not playing hard, bench him and then fine him, I have 0 issues with that, but that's not what Miami did.

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At this point right now, Butler has said he's not signing an extension, behind the scenes it's reported that it goes for every team but Phoenix. He's said he doesn't play with "joy" for Miami, indicating it being connected to his current role. Now the lack of effort in specific games, that's an issue and he should have been pulled and/or fined. Everything else he's really not done anything bad.

Basically, everyone is mad at rumors which may all be correct, but those were done in private where they should be happening at, much like Riley telling Butler to shut up. It should have been done in private and maybe in person.

Butler has been running his mouth for years now… it’s about time Riley, aka the Godfather, wore those commanding pants again and put a player in his place. Butler can play that game, but you are going to tell me that Riley can’t? At this point, it’s obviously fire for fire type of game between both parties. Unfortunately, Butler cornered himself, not just us. Not sure what you were implying, but the Heat need the Godfather again, not sleepy Pat.

[Beenie]

There been clashes between the Heat business management side and Butler. Butler expect and gets off-court privileges and business access or perks for him and his partners from the Heat organization but in return he doesn’t participate or rarely participate in any of the Heat off court business activities. He doesn’t want to be a spokesman for the organization like Marino was for the Dolphins or, Shaq and Wade was for the Heat. He wants that to continue and get paid as if he is a spokesman as he ages.

I understand your point but it still doesn’t answer the question I’m asking.

Draymond is implying that Jimmy is tired of the team and it’s been years in the making and I’m trying to get to the bottom of what specific aspect he is tired of.

If he’s already mostly not involved with the team’s non basketball business activities then how could he be tired of them?

Because he doesn't have the max extension he wants on demand. In all prior time periods, he did.

Impression I got from Draymond's comments was that the bad feelings preexisted the time range in which the extension conversation was a thing.

[greg4012]

We’re not getting Booker, that defeats the purpose of getting Jimmy lol

Obviously, which begs the question of what do the Suns really think they can offer that would make this even possible? It feels like a pipe dream at the moment for the Suns and Butler… and if their play is for Butler to make it ugly to force it into existence, then my follow up is where is the commissioner now? He steps in when Dame is asking nicely to play for us, but disappears when Butler is burning us on the way out.

1. The agent confirmed talking to other teams (had he not confirmed that it wouldn't have been an issue that the NBA could do anything about). The Heat centric podcasts kept saying he was dumb for confirming this (yet it's fine when it's to Miami's benefit).
2. Heat fans had no issues with Lillard or Butler doing this when it benefited them, which I will point at once again, Riley knew this situation would happen with Butler when he told him to shut his mouth to him through the media because of why Butler decided not to go back to Philly was somewhat the same thing but not public.

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Lillard's agent, Aaron Goodwin, made public comments suggesting that he had warned teams that his client only wanted to play in Miami.

That led to the NBA issuing a memo to all 30 teams threatening discipline if either Lillard or Goodwin contacted teams privately or publicly to suggest that Lillard would not "fully perform the services called for under his player contract in the event of a trade." The trade chatter died down a bit after that, but on Thursday we finally heard from Lillard himself about the status of his demand.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-confirms-trade-request-to-heat-but-prefers-not-to-speak-on-the-trail-blazers/

Difference between something being fine to one party and being objectively allowed and enforced against. Benefitting parties don't typically opt for strict enforcement against things to their benefit. Doesn't mean they can't recognize where rules were skirted.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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[greg4012]

No Beal and No Jimmy. 2026 is the legit the best setup salary cap wise to add someone. IDGAF about a 38 year Jimmy Bulter. Just watching the squad and the young guys it's not even that crazy to see Jovic and Ware getting better after 2 seasons of full run I'm here for this.

I can't get over how bad Butler's Agent screwed this up.

In 2 seasons of development, Miami can have the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA. I know many hate this optimistic perspective. We're already seeing glimpses with the Ware-Jovic bench synergy.

Sure but let's start with playing Ware and Bam together. Thats what everyone wants, thats the main event, to see if it works or not. Jovic and Ware are nice, but thats not the main thing here. It's if Ware and Bam can play together and that only happens if Spo freaking plays them together.

Miami is steadfast in their developmental timeline and process. I wouldn't even be surprised if Ware gets another G League stint before the season ends (although the Jimmy blow up and subsequent clear pivot to youth makes that less likely). The Heat are a lot more patient for rolling out how a rookie plays and what they're used for than general fandom (and thank God for that).

There's a reason Jovic was playing minutes at center as rookie in the G League and even in his stint with the Heat (lineup data reflects he played 46% of his rookie season minutes at Center) and has played in that role less and less in subsequent years. Miami wants to prioritize developing frontcourt players to do the essential frontcourt things first and foremost before expanding their functions on the court. FUNDAMENTALS.

Maybe we'll see some Bam-Ware minutes in the back half of the season. But, maybe it doesn't come until next season. The Heat have talked about it being part of the bigger picture since drafting Ware. I believe they're working towards it.

I bet it'll end up working a lot better when approached thoughtfully and in a structured manner than just done on a whim.

[greg4012]

I understand your point but it still doesn’t answer the question I’m asking.

Draymond is implying that Jimmy is tired of the team and it’s been years in the making and I’m trying to get to the bottom of what specific aspect he is tired of.

If he’s already mostly not involved with the team’s non basketball business activities then how could he be tired of them?

Because he doesn't have the max extension he wants on demand. In all prior time periods, he did.

Impression I got from Draymond's comments was that the bad feelings preexisted the time range in which the extension conversation was a thing.

A hallmark of emotional maturity is the ability to regulate emotions. I'm sure Jimmy has had grievances with his work environment every year of his career. I have too. The desire to regulate those emotions probably shifted once he saw he wasn't getting his way.

Gotta remember that Miami already gave Jimmy an early max extension during his time in Miami.

[oreon]

Let him ruin his legacy

He’s extremely hard headed. Front office has misjudged his character up to this point.

I think they judged it perfectly and utilized it. They needed to move Butler's money to make their pivot in the summer of 2025 or 2026 and now they're not the bad guys to do it. I don't like how Riley did it but I can't say it wasn't a near perfect play to get this to where it is now. Riley's calculated in his talks to the public, he knew exactly what he was doing.

Nah. They misjudged it. If it was just to move his contract, they could have done a trade in the summer. Riley didn't want to pay Butler but still wanted to compete. He wanted to force Butler to opt in because the options this summer for Butler were pretty bare. Or at worst have do a sign and trade. Riley wanted best of both worlds, go for it in the playoffs without extending Butler.
I don't know how he expected Butler to play ball publicly with his money on the line. If he knew Butler was going to go nuclear he would have moved in the summer. Right now is just an awful position for the Heat to be in. They have little leverage to get much back for him and bringing him back to the team may make that locker room toxic

[AirP.]

Butler has been running his mouth for years now… it’s about time Riley, aka the Godfather, wore those commanding pants again and put a player in his place. Butler can play that game, but you are going to tell me that Riley can’t? At this point, it’s obviously fire for fire type of game between both parties. Unfortunately, Butler cornered himself, not just us. Not sure what you were implying, but the Heat need the Godfather again, not sleepy Pat.

Running his mouth? What is the situation that is happening right now? Butler saying he will be opting out and he doesn't have joy playing with the Heat anymore and indicated it had something to do with his role. Everything else is rumors (which may or may not be true). On the not giving enough effort, bench him and fine him, which should happen if he does that.

If Butler were say... Anthony Edwards with the Heat with one year left on his contract with a player option I highly doubt anyone would be happy with what Riley said about keeping his mouth shut publiclly, especially when Edwards mentions he's going to opt out of his player option. It's acceptable now because either people hate Butler or because Butler is near the end of his time where he can help Miami.

Riley is calculated, he didn't just make up those words on the spot, he said them for a reason and he knew it cause an issue with Butler.

I think Riley's lost his fastball on roster construction by being more conservative now with bulding rosters (even before the new CBA) but that doesn't mean he's not smart and cunning. I think when people say he's sleeping it's because he's not making moves like he once did as a gm, he's slow rolling it.

[RexBoyWonder]

Butler has been running his mouth for years now… it’s about time Riley, aka the Godfather, wore those commanding pants again and put a player in his place. Butler can play that game, but you are going to tell me that Riley can’t? At this point, it’s obviously fire for fire type of game between both parties. Unfortunately, Butler cornered himself, not just us. Not sure what you were implying, but the Heat need the Godfather again, not sleepy Pat.

Running his mouth? What is the situation that is happening right now? Butler saying he will be opting out and he doesn't have joy playing with the Heat anymore and indicated it had something to do with his role. Everything else is rumors (which may or may not be true). On the not giving enough effort, bench him and fine him, which should happen if he does that.

If Butler were say... Anthony Edwards with the Heat with one year left on his contract with a player option I highly doubt anyone would be happy with what Riley said, especially when Edwards mentions he's going to opt out of his player option. It's acceptable now because either peopl hate Butler or because Butler is near the end of his time where he can help Miami.

Riley is calculated, he didn't just make up those words on the spot, he said them for a reason and he knew it cause an issue with Butler.

I think Riley's lost his fastball on roster construction by being more conservative now with bulding rosters (even before the new CBA) but that doesn't mean he's not smart and cunning. I think when people say he's sleeping it's because he's not making moves like he once did as a gm, he's slow rolling it.

You really need to be beyond delusional or in deep denial about Jimmy's **** to say Pat wanted or planed for this type of drama.

It hurts the team, it hurts Jimmy's trade value, it's hurts Pat's own image, it hurts the other players.

No one profits from this kind of chit, Pat should have traded Jimmy in the summer if he didn't want to extend him - because Jimmy showed (and now proved again) he only cares about himself.

Jimmy lost a lot of respect and fans with his chit. Pat just looks naive.

[twix2500]

Can they trade him for expirings, and ppl will know hes just a rental? That used to be a thing back awhile ago, right?

The Heat want the expiring space.

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[AirP.]

He’s extremely hard headed. Front office has misjudged his character up to this point.

I think they judged it perfectly and utilized it. They needed to move Butler's money to make their pivot in the summer of 2025 or 2026 and now they're not the bad guys to do it. I don't like how Riley did it but I can't say it wasn't a near perfect play to get this to where it is now. Riley's calculated in his talks to the public, he knew exactly what he was doing.

Nah. They misjudged it. If it was just to move his contract, they could have done a trade in the summer. Riley didn't want to pay Butler but still wanted to compete. He wanted to force Butler to opt in because the options this summer for Butler were pretty bare. Or at worst have do a sign and trade. Riley wanted best of both worlds, go for it in the playoffs without extending Butler.
I don't know how he expected Butler to play ball publicly with his money on the line. If he knew Butler was going to go nuclear he would have moved in the summer. Right now is just an awful position for the Heat to be in. They have little leverage to get much back for him and bringing him back to the team may make that locker room toxic

If the FO decided to move his contract this summer a good portion of the fanbase would have been upset, some wanted him to retire as a Heat player, some thought he had more good years left and some said pay him. I really think Miami's FO was 99% good with letting Butler walk for nothing this summer to get well under the tax but they still would have looked bad if he had a good year, Butler forcing his way out was the only way the FO could look good to nearly everyone in this situation. Who knows, maybe Miami ends up with a stealth tank that doesn't really get noticed, there's currently only 10 teams with less wins then Miami, they have a real shot to get one of the better picks in a good draft.

[AirP.]

Can they trade him for expirings, and ppl will know hes just a rental? That used to be a thing back awhile ago, right?

The Heat want the expiring space.

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Miami's contracts are lining up for a huge pivot. I wouldn't have been one bit surprised had Butler opted in this next summer, Miami sending him (quite possibly Rozier and Robinson also) out as a huge expiring contract. If Miami extended Butler they'd miss their chance to make this huge pivot for a few more years.

[EMC5466]

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[jbsays]

We’re not getting Booker, that defeats the purpose of getting Jimmy lol

Not if Heat think he's better than anyone they could get with the projected cap space. He's only 28. Bam is 27. Herro 24.

Can he play with Herro or would they be redundant? Who's guarding the best guard on the other team? Would you play them both next to Highsmith and put Highsmith on best perimeter player on other team?

[twix2500]

Can they trade him for expirings, and ppl will know hes just a rental? That used to be a thing back awhile ago, right?

The Heat want the expiring space.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Miami's contracts are lining up for a huge pivot. I wouldn't have been one bit surprised had Butler opted in this next summer, Miami sending him (quite possibly Rozier and Robinson also) out as a huge expiring contract. If Miami extended Butler they'd miss their chance to make this huge pivot for a few more years.

Yes, that is why I said earlier that Butler if he opts in is a bigger trade assest next season. Because of the opt out, now his contract is a bad trading asset.

[contract]

He won't take option A because bird rights are the only way he can get his money.

We can, however, screw him over big time.

If he opts in and no one else steps up with value, we can cut him. We'll be on the hook for $52 million next year. It will be dead money. But Jimmy won't get his extension. Of the $121 million they're said to have waiting for him, he'll get that $52 million plus the vet minimum. That's it.

The goal isn't to screw Jimmy, it's to unscrew us.

Of course, but trading for Beal is not going to unscrew us. It's going to screw us harder. So to make this work for us we have to hope that Phoenix can come up with a number of assets that will both satisfy the team taking Beal (something he has to agree to) and satisfy us. It's a tall order. So Jimmy has to either compromise and come up with another team or we do what we've got to do to get ourselves out of this position.

If no one but Phoenix will trade for him, and we can't play him, what else are we supposed to do?

Reality will set in for Jimmy around the trade deadline. There's no way he wants to stay here.

[jbsays]

Who was the last player to demand as trade to a team and have it fulfilled? I can't remember if Beal specifically wanted to only go to the Suns? Or maybe he had a few teams on his list that he would waive the NTC.

Anthony Davis to Lakers?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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First time in the Jimmy/Bam era we won’t have an all star I believe