Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[dckingsfan]

I'd love to have both Deni and Bilal, they compliment each other in a beautiful way

[payitforward]

It's great to see Deni prospering in Portland!

[dckingsfan]

It's great to see Deni prospering in Portland!

Yep, nice to see him absolutely killing it now after that abysmal start... now, knock down the TOs and you get to be borderline All-Star Deni... make it so!

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Let me pull a PIF because there's so much nonsense in this post it's impossible to keep up with

Ya'll keep calling Poole, PooPoo when his SEASON AVG's are still better than Deni's lil 6 game sample size...... Ya'll be tripping....

Well a couple of things here.

While Poole is playing much, much better than last year, he was historically bad last year. I was reading something at one point he was putting together the second worst NBA season in terms of VORP I believe before he played a bit better towards the end of the year. That's not to say that VORP is the end all, but anyone who watched him play last season without question can attest to how horrible of a player he was.

There's also this little thing called playing both sides, Poole is awful at one end. The only thing Poole does better than Deni is dominate the ball on **** teams.

This trade wasn't about Bub vs Deni... This trade was to make room for Bilal.... Bilal is going to be better than Deni as he's already shown in his short season and a half... So when you want to make a true comparison, look at Bilal vs Deni, not Deni vs Bub (even though Bub has played better as a rookie than Deni did)...

Making room for Bilal? There was no reason they couldn't have played together, this is just silly. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't have had both playing together, hell Portland is doing it with Deni and Camara right now.

Bilal is better now too? So if you want to compare second year's, they're pretty similar players per 36, but Bilal gets to play 34 minutes a game and do whatever he wants out while Deni was stuck on an inept squad trying to make the play-in with Beal, Kuzma, Spencer Dinwiddie, and Porzingis for 30 games. Then if you want to compare this year, let's face it, Bilal despite getting free rein has kind of been meh. He's a top 20 player in terms of MPG shooting on 42/30/77 (52 TS%), is an underwhelming rebounder, isn't a good shooter (side bar: I do love how every game thread used to be about how Deni couldn't shoot the three, but now with Dawkins guys it's ignored, interesting stuff), and despite some flashy blocks and dunks, isn't really a good defender, which why he's rocking a -6.2 on-off this year. Now is he a finished product? No, but let's not act like he's played all that well despite little pressure and accountability from the team. Deni's has been much better this season. Per game averages, per 36 numbers, advanced numbers, and the eye test bear this all out.

This wasn't a Chris Webber bad trade.... You don't have to like it but it's not that bad when compared to the Webber trade, or the Ben Wallace trade, or the Rip Hamilton trade.... It could be worse, I'm over it as it was month's ago and can't be reversed so we gotta keep moving forward... They wanted to tank, and the cost was a young player.... We're trading whatever his production is for a chance at a better player each of the next 2-3years as a result of not being very good.....

You can both tank and have had Deni on the team. The only player that could maybe get this team to sniff a play-in in the league is Jokic because of the offensive hub he is. Even then, probably not. It's called walking and chewing gum at the same time. Hold onto existing good, young, and developing players, while trying to get some more. Easy, right?

Now the process gotta play itself out... So far I think they are doing alright.... I didn't expect them to be anything than a bottom dweller this year or last, with or without Deni..... Deni wasn't going to push the needle that far, since with him we only won 15 games last year..... I mean we sucked and still suck...... Finishing last or next to last aint really that big of a difference...... We're trying to hit home runs not singles or doubles so that's how we're proceeding....

This whole Deni was expendable because we won 15 games last year is this zombie, bird-brain notion that keeps popping up in one form or the other. Again, there isn't a player in the league that could pull this roster up if replaced with Deni (I'm not even saying Deni is is the same realm as elite talents), just as I mentioned in the previous point. And FWIW, and I've brought this up before, Deni significantly outplayed every player on this roster last season that played more than 20 minutes for us from an on-off perspective where he was +6.9. Every other dude who played major minutes was in the red, I think Deni beat the next nearest guy by +10. So point to the Kuzmas, PooPoos, Joneses, Kisperts, Bilals of the world who were all horrendous in heavy minutes.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Last 25 games after he he scored 0 pts versus Memphis per game:

28.5 MPG
16.3 PPG
6.3 RPG
3.3 APG
1.0 SPG
0.5 BPG
2.6 TO
2.4 PF
51% FG (10.9 FGA)
43% 3PT FG (4.6 FGA)
79% FT (4.2 FTA)

Per 36 over that 25 game span:

20.6 PPG
8.0 RPG
4.2 APG
1.3 SPG
0.6 BPG
3.3 TO
3.0 PF
51% FG (13.8 FGA)
43% 3PT FG (5.8 FGA)
79% FT (5.3 FTA)

Billups finally has started to up his minutes that Grant hasn't been playing.

Not a small sample size as some indicate.

[payitforward]

Let me pull a PIF....

Ok, then, let me return the favor & pulla CntOutSmrtCrazy!

On the season, including his slow start, Deni is playing better than anyone on the Wizards who's gotten major minutes of any kind -- with the exception of Valanciunas. So there!

In fact, other than JV, the only Wizard who's played more than a couple hundred minutes & has actually been good at all -- objectively good I mean (i.e. numbers per 40 minutes are NBA average or better for his position) -- is Justin Champagnie.

Poole is better than last year, but his numbers aren't anywhere close to average for an NBA guard.
Coulibaly has made a nice jump from last year, but that's different from actually putting up average or better numbers.
The 3 rookies have each had their moments, esp. Carrington, but none of them is anywhere near average in production.

This should come as no surprise, of course, since if our players overall put up NBA average numbers overall, our record would be @.500 -- which it's not.

[TheBlackCzar]

Let me pull a PIF because there's so much nonsense in this post it's impossible to keep up with

Ya'll keep calling Poole, PooPoo when his SEASON AVG's are still better than Deni's lil 6 game sample size...... Ya'll be tripping....

Well a couple of things here.

While Poole is playing much, much better than last year, he was historically bad last year. I was reading something at one point he was putting together the second worst NBA season in terms of VORP I believe before he played a bit better towards the end of the year. That's not to say that VORP is the end all, but anyone who watched him play last season without question can attest to how horrible of a player he was.

There's also this little thing called playing both sides, Poole is awful at one end. The only thing Poole does better than Deni is dominate the ball on **** teams.

This trade wasn't about Bub vs Deni... This trade was to make room for Bilal.... Bilal is going to be better than Deni as he's already shown in his short season and a half... So when you want to make a true comparison, look at Bilal vs Deni, not Deni vs Bub (even though Bub has played better as a rookie than Deni did)...

Making room for Bilal? There was no reason they couldn't have played together, this is just silly. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't have had both playing together, hell Portland is doing it with Deni and Camara right now.

Bilal is better now too? So if you want to compare second year's, they're pretty similar players per 36, but Bilal gets to play 34 minutes a game and do whatever he wants out while Deni was stuck on an inept squad trying to make the play-in with Beal, Kuzma, Spencer Dinwiddie, and Porzingis for 30 games. Then if you want to compare this year, let's face it, Bilal despite getting free rein has kind of been meh. He's a top 20 player in terms of MPG shooting on 42/30/77 (52 TS%), is an underwhelming rebounder, isn't a good shooter (side bar: I do love how every game thread used to be about how Deni couldn't shoot the three, but now with Dawkins guys it's ignored, interesting stuff), and despite some flashy blocks and dunks, isn't really a good defender, which why he's rocking a -6.2 on-off this year. Now is he a finished product? No, but let's not act like he's played all that well despite little pressure and accountability from the team. Deni's has been much better this season. Per game averages, per 36 numbers, advanced numbers, and the eye test bear this all out.

This wasn't a Chris Webber bad trade.... You don't have to like it but it's not that bad when compared to the Webber trade, or the Ben Wallace trade, or the Rip Hamilton trade.... It could be worse, I'm over it as it was month's ago and can't be reversed so we gotta keep moving forward... They wanted to tank, and the cost was a young player.... We're trading whatever his production is for a chance at a better player each of the next 2-3years as a result of not being very good.....

You can both tank and have had Deni on the team. The only player that could maybe get this team to sniff a play-in in the league is Jokic because of the offensive hub he is. Even then, probably not. It's called walking and chewing gum at the same time. Hold onto existing good, young, and developing players, while trying to get some more. Easy, right?

Now the process gotta play itself out... So far I think they are doing alright.... I didn't expect them to be anything than a bottom dweller this year or last, with or without Deni..... Deni wasn't going to push the needle that far, since with him we only won 15 games last year..... I mean we sucked and still suck...... Finishing last or next to last aint really that big of a difference...... We're trying to hit home runs not singles or doubles so that's how we're proceeding....

This whole Deni was expendable because we won 15 games last year is this zombie, bird-brain notion that keeps popping up in one form or the other. Again, there isn't a player in the league that could pull this roster up if replaced with Deni (I'm not even saying Deni is is the same realm as elite talents), just as I mentioned in the previous point. And FWIW, and I've brought this up before, Deni significantly outplayed every player on this roster last season that played more than 20 minutes for us from an on-off perspective where he was +6.9. Every other dude who played major minutes was in the red, I think Deni beat the next nearest guy by +10. So point to the Kuzmas, PooPoos, Joneses, Kisperts, Bilals of the world who were all horrendous in heavy minutes.

This is a long and passionate discussion centered around the comparison of NBA players, primarily Deni Avdija, Jordan Poole, Bilal Coulibaly, and others. Here's a summarized breakdown of the argument:

Comparison of Talent and Roles:

Jordan Poole is credited with better scoring and offensive output, having been a second option on a championship team, a level Deni is argued to never reach.
Deni Avdija is viewed as a decent player with above-average potential but ultimately replaceable in the team’s direction. His stats and limited offensive impact are cited as reasons he wasn't given a primary role by his organization.
Focus on Development:

Bilal Coulibaly is highlighted as a promising young player with potential for stardom, showing flashes of strong defensive and offensive skills despite inconsistencies.
The new front office (FO) strategy prioritizes young talent with higher ceilings, developing players like Bilal, Bub, and others while moving away from players like Deni.
Team Philosophy and Rebuilding:

The overarching theme is that the team is in a rebuilding phase, seeking multiple assets and high-upside players through trades, draft picks, and development rather than holding onto players deemed replaceable or limited.
Criticism of Emotional Attachments:

There’s a critique of overly emotional reactions to player trades, emphasizing a long-term view of acquiring more opportunities (“shots at the apple”) for talent in upcoming drafts.
Dismissal of Historical Achievements:

References to past successes (e.g., Bradley Beal leading the league in scoring) are deemed irrelevant to the current strategy.
Balanced Perspective on Youth:

Acknowledgment that young players will have ups and downs while adjusting to the NBA, but the FO sees potential in developing them further rather than sticking with players like Deni, who didn’t show enough improvement over four seasons.
Key Takeaway:
The writer believes the team is correctly prioritizing a long-term rebuild by focusing on developing players with higher potential and acquiring future assets, rather than clinging to moderately productive players.

[payitforward]

This is a perfectly sound analysis overall.

But... the responses will say that you're underestimating Deni in particular -- especially given the fact that he is young enough that he'd still be somewhere in his prime years 4 seasons from now when, presumably, we'd be seeking to contend.

[TheBlackCzar]

This is a perfectly sound analysis overall.

But... the responses will say that you're underestimating Deni in particular -- especially given the fact that he is young enough that he'd still be somewhere in his prime years 4 seasons from now when, presumably, we'd be seeking to contend.

We shall see, but as of right now with his current skill level (role player level), mixed with his athleticism (above average), and his mental make up (questionable at best), I don't see why all the fuss.... out of players his age is he even in the top 15-25?

[AFM]

This is a perfectly sound analysis overall.

But... the responses will say that you're underestimating Deni in particular -- especially given the fact that he is young enough that he'd still be somewhere in his prime years 4 seasons from now when, presumably, we'd be seeking to contend.

We shall see, but as of right now with his current skill level (role player level), mixed with his athleticism (above average), and his mental make up (questionable at best), I don't see why all the fuss.... out of players his age is he even in the top 15-25?

He’s an all star level player being held back by team politics and actual politics. Dawkins didn’t want him here because he would outshine Dawkins’ own picks.

[TheBlackCzar]

This is a perfectly sound analysis overall.

But... the responses will say that you're underestimating Deni in particular -- especially given the fact that he is young enough that he'd still be somewhere in his prime years 4 seasons from now when, presumably, we'd be seeking to contend.

We shall see, but as of right now with his current skill level (role player level), mixed with his athleticism (above average), and his mental make up (questionable at best), I don't see why all the fuss.... out of players his age is he even in the top 15-25?

He’s an all star level player being held back by team politics and actual politics. Dawkins didn’t want him here because he would outshine Dawkins’ own picks.

This is just unfounded nonsense....

[tontoz]

This is just unfounded nonsense....

He's being sarcastic. He hates the way people have been complaining about the Deni trade.

[payitforward]

Sorry, AFM, I gotta agree -- that last claim is a colossal stretch & is w/o evidence in support.

It also violates common sense -- Dawkins has one overriding goal: build a title contending team. He's not sacrificing value for any personal pique.

Now... since 4 of the 5 assets we got for Deni were draft picks, you could claim that he thinks he's smart enough to outdraft his competitors & get more out of those 4 picks than most people will imagine he can get. Possible if unlikely -- at least he doesn't come off as that egotistical.

More likely, he has put an extremely high value on Carrington. Thinks he may well be as good as Deni all on his own & has a shot to be even better, maybe a true star. Add the other 4 assets, & it looks like a really good trade to him! Or, at least, a risk worth taking.

That last bit is more or less how I view it. It's a risk I would have taken given where the Wizards are right now.

I think we are, literally, starting OVER. From scratch. From the last Tommy Sheppard squad, 2 years ago, we still have Gill & Davis, neither of whom looks like he's tradable, plus Kuzma & Kispert -- both of whom I expect they'll get rid of as soon as they can.

[TheBlackCzar]

This is just unfounded nonsense....

He's being sarcastic. He hates the way people have been complaining about the Deni trade.

oopz....lls

[Benjammin]

Deni was the best player on the team last year and would have been this year and likely next year unless they were able to plant the Flagg. That is not conducive to the tank. I assume they tried to get the best deal. Life goes on.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Maccabist]

Check out the comments below – they're debating the Blazers' MVP (SPOILER: no debate):
https://www.blazersedge.com/2025/1/22/24349595/portland-trail-blazers-midseason-awards-mvp#comments

[gambitx777]

Thao all comes down to what we trade Brogdon for?
Do we get another first and something else or does he just walk? That's what tells the tale of this trade.

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

Thao all comes down to what we trade Brogdon for?
Do we get another first and something else or does he just walk? That's what tells the tale of this trade.

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

No, not at all -- & why would you think that?

We also got two R1 picks for Deni. &, in addition, we got two R2 picks.

Few & far between are players who get traded for that sizable a package of assets.

[closg00]

Portland is on a 4-game win streak

[TGW]

Bilal is going to be better than Deni as he's already shown in his short season and a half

Deni is better at every aspect of basketball than Bilal. Such a ridiculous statement.