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Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police!

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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#61 » by JayTWill » Thu Jan 9, 2025 11:38 pm

Gravy wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
Gravy wrote:Would you rather play the Celtics in the 1st round, 2nd rnd or ecf?


They never made it to the Celtics so who cares. They could have gotten just as far as they did last year without being a 2nd seed. Mitch might have actually survived a non-Embiid first round matchup. Thibs wasn't trying to avoid the Celtics until ECF. He is just doing what he does. Trying to win every game he can the only way he knows how. His regular season success has never been a true indicator of what should be expected in the postseason.

Year 1 in NY - Swept the Hawks the regular season. Lost to the lower seeded Hawks in 5 in the postseason
Year 2 - Missed playoffs
Year 3 - Beat the Heat 3 out of 4 games in the regular season. Lost to the lower seeded Heat in 6 in the postseason
Year 4 - Can't really judge with the amount of injuries but part of me does wonder if a healthy version of the Knicks with Thibs shortened rotation would have held up against the Pacers depth and pace.

Being a higher seed meant nothing in those matchups.

So you would be fine playing the Celtics in the 1st round as the 7th seed this season


Once again, who cares???? If you have the better team it shouldn't matter when you match up. I'm trying to develop and have the best team when it matters most. If we are going to be completely honest with ourselves this team is unlikely to win a championship in year 1 after making such a drastic change to the roster with limited depth.

There are a ton of reasons not to play guys a ton of minutes just in an attempt to win as many regular season games as possible even though i'm not sure if it's necessary to win games.

Maybe don't play KAT a ton of minutes because he is an almost 30 year old big that just came off of meniscus surgery that is in year 1 of a 4 year/$220M contract.

Maybe don't play OG a ton of minutes because of his yearly injuries and seeing how much of a difference his addition made to the team last year.

Maybe don't play Mikal a ton of minutes because he is asked to be the point of attack defender all game while also needing to create his own offense for himself and others.

Maybe don't play Brunson a ton of minutes because he is a small guard with limited athleticism that is leading the league in time of possession once again trying to carry a very unimaginative offense.

Maybe don't play Hart as much because despite looking like an ironman and putting up incredible numbers this year the team is actually performing better when he and Mikal aren't on the floor at the same time.

Maybe they should play the bench more just so the top guys can be a little more rested late in games to give more energy.

Maybe they should play the bench more so the top guys are a little less worn down late in the season.

Maybe they should have learned from dumping Grimes last year for short term success to show a little bit more patience with young players that show positive signs.

Maybe they should look at the limited impact of vet min additions like Shamet and Payne and realize that adding more vet mins over the next few years isn't going to change much and give the young guys a chance.

Maybe they should look and see that Thibs' way has never succeeded when it mattered and expect a different result.

How is playing guys a ton of minutes in the regular season an effective strategy for postseason success in your mind when there is no evidence it has ever worked under Thibs???? The same teams that he is beating in the regular season he is losing to in the postseason.

More regular season minutes is not some special strategy. Is that what was missing to beat 100 pound Trae Young in the postseason? Is that how Jimmy Butler who sleep walks through the regular season beat the Knicks and advanced to the finals multiple times? Did the Pacers seem like they lacked conditioning from their deep rotation as they ran the Knicks off the court last postseason?
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#62 » by Gravy » Thu Jan 9, 2025 11:47 pm

JayTWill wrote:
Gravy wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
They never made it to the Celtics so who cares. They could have gotten just as far as they did last year without being a 2nd seed. Mitch might have actually survived a non-Embiid first round matchup. Thibs wasn't trying to avoid the Celtics until ECF. He is just doing what he does. Trying to win every game he can the only way he knows how. His regular season success has never been a true indicator of what should be expected in the postseason.

Year 1 in NY - Swept the Hawks the regular season. Lost to the lower seeded Hawks in 5 in the postseason
Year 2 - Missed playoffs
Year 3 - Beat the Heat 3 out of 4 games in the regular season. Lost to the lower seeded Heat in 6 in the postseason
Year 4 - Can't really judge with the amount of injuries but part of me does wonder if a healthy version of the Knicks with Thibs shortened rotation would have held up against the Pacers depth and pace.

Being a higher seed meant nothing in those matchups.

So you would be fine playing the Celtics in the 1st round as the 7th seed this season


Once again, who cares???? If you have the better team it shouldn't matter when you match up. I'm trying to develop and have the best team when it matters most. If we are going to be completely honest with ourselves this team is unlikely to win a championship in year 1 after making such a drastic change to the roster with limited depth.

There are a ton of reasons not to play guys a ton of minutes just in an attempt to win as many regular season games as possible even though i'm not sure if it's necessary to win games.

Maybe don't play KAT a ton of minutes because he is an almost 30 year old big that just came off of meniscus surgery that is in year 1 of a 4 year/$220M contract.

Maybe don't play OG a ton of minutes because of his yearly injuries and seeing how much of a difference his addition made to the team last year.

Maybe don't play Mikal a ton of minutes because he is asked to be the point of attack defender all game while also needing to create his own offense for himself and others.

Maybe don't play Brunson a ton of minutes because he is a small guard with limited athleticism that is leading the league in time of possession once again trying to carry a very unimaginative offense.

Maybe don't play Hart as much because despite looking like an ironman and putting up incredible numbers this year the team is actually performing better when he and Mikal aren't on the floor at the same time.

Maybe they should play the bench more just so the top guys can be a little more rested late in games to give more energy.

Maybe they should play the bench more so the top guys are a little less worn down late in the season.

Maybe they should have learned from dumping Grimes last year for short term success to show a little bit more patience with young players that show positive signs.

Maybe they should look at the limited impact of vet min additions like Shamet and Payne and realize that adding more vet mins over the next few years isn't going to change much and give the young guys a chance.

Maybe they should look and see that Thibs' way has never succeeded when it mattered and expect a different result.

How is playing guys a ton of minutes in the regular season an effective strategy for postseason success in your mind when there is no evidence it has ever worked under Thibs???? The same teams that he is beating in the regular season he is losing to in the postseason.

More regular season minutes is not some special strategy. Is that what was missing to beat 100 pound Trae Young in the postseason? Is that how Jimmy Butler who sleep walks through the regular season beat the Knicks and advanced to the finals multiple times? Did the Pacers seem like they lacked conditioning from their deep rotation as they ran the Knicks off the court last postseason?

You know who followed all those suggestions, all the 20 years of previous coaches we had before this guy. You know who is by far the most successful, my guy right here:

Read on Twitter


Seems like the key to success in NY is to drive the fans insane. Keep it up Thibs!
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#63 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Thu Jan 9, 2025 11:56 pm

Gravy wrote:
JayTWill wrote:
Gravy wrote:So you would be fine playing the Celtics in the 1st round as the 7th seed this season


Once again, who cares???? If you have the better team it shouldn't matter when you match up. I'm trying to develop and have the best team when it matters most. If we are going to be completely honest with ourselves this team is unlikely to win a championship in year 1 after making such a drastic change to the roster with limited depth.

There are a ton of reasons not to play guys a ton of minutes just in an attempt to win as many regular season games as possible even though i'm not sure if it's necessary to win games.

Maybe don't play KAT a ton of minutes because he is an almost 30 year old big that just came off of meniscus surgery that is in year 1 of a 4 year/$220M contract.

Maybe don't play OG a ton of minutes because of his yearly injuries and seeing how much of a difference his addition made to the team last year.

Maybe don't play Mikal a ton of minutes because he is asked to be the point of attack defender all game while also needing to create his own offense for himself and others.

Maybe don't play Brunson a ton of minutes because he is a small guard with limited athleticism that is leading the league in time of possession once again trying to carry a very unimaginative offense.

Maybe don't play Hart as much because despite looking like an ironman and putting up incredible numbers this year the team is actually performing better when he and Mikal aren't on the floor at the same time.

Maybe they should play the bench more just so the top guys can be a little more rested late in games to give more energy.

Maybe they should play the bench more so the top guys are a little less worn down late in the season.

Maybe they should have learned from dumping Grimes last year for short term success to show a little bit more patience with young players that show positive signs.

Maybe they should look at the limited impact of vet min additions like Shamet and Payne and realize that adding more vet mins over the next few years isn't going to change much and give the young guys a chance.

Maybe they should look and see that Thibs' way has never succeeded when it mattered and expect a different result.

How is playing guys a ton of minutes in the regular season an effective strategy for postseason success in your mind when there is no evidence it has ever worked under Thibs???? The same teams that he is beating in the regular season he is losing to in the postseason.

More regular season minutes is not some special strategy. Is that what was missing to beat 100 pound Trae Young in the postseason? Is that how Jimmy Butler who sleep walks through the regular season beat the Knicks and advanced to the finals multiple times? Did the Pacers seem like they lacked conditioning from their deep rotation as they ran the Knicks off the court last postseason?

You know who followed all those suggestions, all the 20 years of previous coaches we had before this guy. You know who is by far the most successful, my guy right here:

Read on Twitter


Seems like the key to success in NY is to drive the fans insane. Keep it up Thibs!




Doc Rivers was 356-208 with the Clippers.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#64 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Thu Jan 9, 2025 11:59 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:The players and organization loves Thibs, he is going nowhere and the minutes issue is not even an issue to start with. All fans love to complain about their teams coaches and the same can be said about the Knicks, but he is one of the best in the league.

Image

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sends-data-load-management-study

The NBA sent data from an exhaustive study to its teams this week that showed no link between load-managed players and a decreased risk of injury.


Asking for a minutes reduction isn't load management though.



These guys argue in bad faith, it's the only way to make a compelling case for Thibs. Better coaches that have done more have been fired, you'd think he won multiple titles with how hard some of these guys defend him.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#65 » by DOT » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:03 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:The players and organization loves Thibs, he is going nowhere and the minutes issue is not even an issue to start with. All fans love to complain about their teams coaches and the same can be said about the Knicks, but he is one of the best in the league.

Image

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sends-data-load-management-study



Asking for a minutes reduction isn't load management though.



These guys argue in bad faith, it's the only way to make a compelling case for Thibs. Better coaches that have done more have been fired, you'd think he won multiple titles with how hard some of these guys defend him.

I mean, Kampuchea specifically is one of the most obvious trolls on the site.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#66 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:04 am

Gravy wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Gravy wrote:Minutes police: Thibs needs to play the bench!

The Bench:

Image

Our bench sucks, and I don't expect them to develop into some productive unit by just giving them playing time.

But they should be splitting 12 additional minutes to manage the playing time of our key players, especially those who have a track record of injury, starting with OG and KAT.

It may cost a couple games but I think you still have to keep eyes on the prize and plan for the medium to long term.

Just cutting into OG's playing time by 3 minutes removes 7 (rounded up from 6.7) games from his season. It's a meaningful difference on the whole, even if it looks insignificant at first glance.

You say it may cost a couple games, what is the lowest playoff spot you would be comfortable going down to, to give OG three more minutes of rest?

My point is that it's about giving him 246 more minutes of rest over 82 games.

I don't know about the exact playoff spot but I'd be confident entering the playoffs with a top 5 seed. You want to avoid Boston or Cleveland in the first round, and possibly Milwaukee. I think we have more talent than every other team in the East, and I would be optimistic even without homecourt advantage as a #5 seed.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#67 » by Kampuchea » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:27 am

DOT wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Asking for a minutes reduction isn't load management though.



These guys argue in bad faith, it's the only way to make a compelling case for Thibs. Better coaches that have done more have been fired, you'd think he won multiple titles with how hard some of these guys defend him.

I mean, Kampuchea specifically is one of the most obvious trolls on the site.


You conveniently removed the evidence posted.

The NBA sent data from an exhaustive study to its teams this week that showed no link between load-managed players and a decreased risk of injury.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sends-data-load-management-study

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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#68 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:42 am

Kampuchea wrote:
DOT wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

These guys argue in bad faith, it's the only way to make a compelling case for Thibs. Better coaches that have done more have been fired, you'd think he won multiple titles with how hard some of these guys defend him.

I mean, Kampuchea specifically is one of the most obvious trolls on the site.


You conveniently removed the evidence posted.

The NBA sent data from an exhaustive study to its teams this week that showed no link between load-managed players and a decreased risk of injury.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sends-data-load-management-study

Image


Losing the argument and starting another one no one is having. Then taking a victory lap. Pure troll behavior.

People are not asking for load management. They want less minutes per game for the starters because it is causing injuries and causing them to lose games. All fact based issues supported by numbers and injuries.

There have also been exhaustive studies that link overuse to injuries. Tennis elbow. Patellar tendonopathy etc etc.

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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#69 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:46 am

KAT and hart defending our hero. I love these guys!
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#70 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:57 am

JBreezeNY wrote:If this is the answer they’re giving then fu*k em.

When both get ACL tears because they love Thibs play style so much then whatever. Players don’t wanna save themselves and Thibs can’t even save himself from himself. All this means is we just need to be louder about the minutes, this is just Stockholm Syndrome they don’t know any better.


Results determine the outcome of this story.

The FO assembled their contending starters unit and if we lose too many players before the playoffs nothing will save Thibs from getting the axe in the off-season.

I doubt anything happens before then, but Thibs is not safe from being let go if we don't contend THIS YEAR. Anything less than ECF will be a failure.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#71 » by GettinitDone » Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:03 am

"Keep it up Thibs" ?!?

:rofl:

You fools!! The regular season is 82+ games, it's a MARATHON not a sprint. Instead of preserving energy in the first 50-60 games and then go all out in games #60-82+ to actually win the race, Thibs wants this team to run hard in the first 40-60 laps, treat it like a sprint instead of a marathon, and "take it from there". This is a really basic concept of fatigue management. Thibs has misled his defenders into wrongly believing the team can win the marathon race using tactics in winning a sprint.

The Thibs defenders would then twist this and say preserving energy at the expense of losing the first 50-60 games, and not make the playoffs. Look at the Thunder and Cavs they treat this race as a marathon, not a sprint. Mind boggling stat: except for Shai at #29 with 34.7mpg (under 35mpg!), NONE of the Cavs or Thunder players is in the TOP 50 in mpg ! Yet they're the top 2 teams in the L!! Talk about running marathon but still managing to be ahead of the rest .

Ball don't lie ! Nature don't lie ! Pro athletes fatigue too !!! And ensuring they're at their top stamina when it counts the most is key to success !!
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#72 » by Kampuchea » Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:47 am

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
DOT wrote:I mean, Kampuchea specifically is one of the most obvious trolls on the site.


You conveniently removed the evidence posted.

The NBA sent data from an exhaustive study to its teams this week that showed no link between load-managed players and a decreased risk of injury.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sends-data-load-management-study

Image


Losing the argument and starting another one no one is having. Then taking a victory lap. Pure troll behavior.

People are not asking for load management. They want less minutes per game for the starters because it is causing injuries and causing them to lose games. All fact based issues supported by numbers and injuries.

There have also been exhaustive studies that link overuse to injuries. Tennis elbow. Patellar tendonopathy etc etc.

Image


Less minutes and load management are essentially the same thing.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#73 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:05 am

Kampuchea wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
You conveniently removed the evidence posted.

The NBA sent data from an exhaustive study to its teams this week that showed no link between load-managed players and a decreased risk of injury.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-sends-data-load-management-study

Image


Losing the argument and starting another one no one is having. Then taking a victory lap. Pure troll behavior.

People are not asking for load management. They want less minutes per game for the starters because it is causing injuries and causing them to lose games. All fact based issues supported by numbers and injuries.

There have also been exhaustive studies that link overuse to injuries. Tennis elbow. Patellar tendonopathy etc etc.

Image


Less minutes and load management are essentially the same thing.


No. They are not even remotely the same. One requires sitting players for entire games and, guess what? When you do that you have to use your bench players to make up the difference. Which is 48 minutes and not 10-15 minutes. HUGE difference.

Load management is used to prevent players with chronic injuries from getting worse. Running a nine man rotation is about not running out of gas during the games they are actually playing in. You know, the games we lose because players are gassed in the fourth qtr.

No one is asking for load management. They are asking for common sense minute distribution. We just saw three games in a row where injuries and losses were attributed to running short rotations. How much more proof do you need?

Again, I give Thibs a slight pass because our bench has been injured the entire season. We haven't had 3 of our primary bench players healthy at the same time outside of 4 games and, one of them just returned from a 29 game injury absence. That still doesn't excuse his terrible decisions though. Not only are we losing games because of him, we are risking injuries and the future of the team at the same time.

He has over a decade of proof that it doesn't work and never has.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#74 » by Gravy » Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:51 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Gravy wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Our bench sucks, and I don't expect them to develop into some productive unit by just giving them playing time.

But they should be splitting 12 additional minutes to manage the playing time of our key players, especially those who have a track record of injury, starting with OG and KAT.

It may cost a couple games but I think you still have to keep eyes on the prize and plan for the medium to long term.

Just cutting into OG's playing time by 3 minutes removes 7 (rounded up from 6.7) games from his season. It's a meaningful difference on the whole, even if it looks insignificant at first glance.

You say it may cost a couple games, what is the lowest playoff spot you would be comfortable going down to, to give OG three more minutes of rest?

My point is that it's about giving him 246 more minutes of rest over 82 games.

I don't know about the exact playoff spot but I'd be confident entering the playoffs with a top 5 seed. You want to avoid Boston or Cleveland in the first round, and possibly Milwaukee. I think we have more talent than every other team in the East, and I would be optimistic even without homecourt advantage as a #5 seed.

Get the 5 seed and bounced out of the first round in a bad matchup and everyone is calling us a treadmill team again.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#75 » by JayTWill » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:17 am

Thank God we pushed for every win possibly last season. We became the 2nd seed that no one else was competing for at the end of the season. Grimes is in Dallas being exactly the type of depth this team could use right now. Mitch is still injured and has no current on court value and negative trade value. We had to include DDV in the KAT deal instead of Mitch. We traded for that great win now piece in Bogey whose value tanked so hard we had to attach 5 picks to him to get Mikal. Burks walked for nothing. Now we are sitting here with no depth and limited assets to acquire them along with a few injury prone players and a coach that has a unique way of managing minutes. I wouldn't change anything. That second round appearance with half the roster injured was so worth it. Maybe we can do it again.

5th seed bounced in the first round? Treadmill. 2nd seed bounced in the second round? Thibs is irreplaceable.
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#76 » by Gravy » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:53 am

Is it too much to ask the bench to do something while the starters are on the bench trying to catch their breath?
Almost everytime the starters take a seat the bench comes in and does this
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Do you have any standards for their performance besides able to run and dribble?
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#77 » by Gravy » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:54 am

Kampuchea wrote:NWA has a message for the minutes police

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KAT and Josh Hart to the minutes police

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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#78 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:14 pm

Gravy wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Gravy wrote:You say it may cost a couple games, what is the lowest playoff spot you would be comfortable going down to, to give OG three more minutes of rest?

My point is that it's about giving him 246 more minutes of rest over 82 games.

I don't know about the exact playoff spot but I'd be confident entering the playoffs with a top 5 seed. You want to avoid Boston or Cleveland in the first round, and possibly Milwaukee. I think we have more talent than every other team in the East, and I would be optimistic even without homecourt advantage as a #5 seed.

Get the 5 seed and bounced out of the first round in a bad matchup and everyone is calling us a treadmill team again.

We beat the Cavs without homecourt advantage and lost to Miami with homecourt advantage two years ago.

With this level of talent on the roster, health matters much more than homecourt advantage, so long as you dodge the two juggernauts in the first round (Boston and Cleveland).
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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#79 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:23 pm

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Re: Josh Hart and KAT call out the Minutes Police! 

Post#80 » by WaltFrazier » Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:05 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:When we get to the playoffs we will have built up the stamina where playoff minutes will be easier for our players. When these other teams up their minutes against us and are gassed, going to hear crickets from the minutes police.


So do you seriously think that this is sustainable? Playing 6 guys nearly 40 mins a night?

Meanwhile, the Cavs minutes are capped at 30 mins or less a night. They are going to be fresh and ready for a long playoff run. I have serious concerns about this squad making it to April intact at this rate.


Nope, but I do hope that he trust Shamet enough to continue giving him minutes when Duece returns. So an 8 man rotation with Duece and a 9 man with Mitch. If not Mitch, then a trade for a rotation player.

This seems like best case to hope for. But I fear when Deuce returns he will just take minutes from Shamet and Payne rather than relieving JB and Hart. Similarly Mitch will just reduce Precious minutes and not OG or Bridges so much. Not like a real 9 man rotation.

Plus your 9 man rotation, even if Thibs does use it, is only good if the starters stay healthy
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