How bout that AB!

[CarraT]

Black is one of the worst guard in whole league on offense, he is MCW Junior. Trade him while he still has some value. Dont make the same mistake as we´ve done constantly the last 10 years, holding on to young players who are bad/dont fit, until they have ZERO trade value, like with Payton, Fultz, Cole, Bamba, Fournier, Ross, Hampton, etc.

[JoshuaPotter]

Black is one of the worst guard in whole league on offense, he is MCW Junior. Trade him while he still has some value. Dont make the same mistake as we´ve done constantly the last 10 years, holding on to young players who are bad/dont fit, until they have ZERO trade value, like with Payton, Fultz, Cole, Bamba, Fournier, Ross, Hampton, etc.

As I have said before. Black needs minutes and the ability to fail and lose the game. We have retained a "win now" mentality. Cole has shown the ability to play through mistakes when the game isn't going his way. To me this is a character flaw in Black that he needs to adjust and change otherwise he will only be a bench player.

I disagree with MCW compare. He is too young.

Evertyhing else feels mostly accurate though. I don't know if I want to trade him just yet though, on top of that for what? Another late protected 1st? He would need to be part of a salary package where he could potentially get minutes for himself.

[Skybox]

I like the player...I just don't know if he'll ever be what we are lacking rather than just more of what we have enough of already. I'd rather keep him and see what he can become offensively...but he's not off the table for an offensive difference-maker, imo. I'd definitely want frp-equivalent value back for him if another team specifically targeted him and insisted he be included in a trade package...I also fear the possibility that we hold on too long as we've done multiple times.

I think, given our present team status and short as well as longer-term potential that I'd value TdS more than AB. Again, AB would be great, coming off the bench NEXT to one of the defensively-limited scoring combo guards we've endlessly discussed...so, all things considered, I'd really like to keep AB as one more big, long, fierce defender. Our system needs depth to maintain that 48 mins of pressure that, eventually, breaks opponents.

[JoshuaPotter]

I like the player...I just don't know if he'll ever be what we are lacking rather than just more of what we have enough of already. I'd rather keep him and see what he can become offensively...but he's not off the table for an offensive difference-maker, imo. I'd definitely want frp-equivalent value back for him if another team specifically targeted him and insisted he be included in a trade package...I also fear the possibility that we hold on too long as we've done multiple times.

I think, given our present team status and short as well as longer-term potential that I'd value TdS more than AB. Again, AB would be great, coming off the bench NEXT to one of the defensively-limited scoring combo guards we've endlessly discussed...so, all things considered, I'd really like to keep AB as one more big, long, fierce defender. Our system needs depth to maintain that 48 mins of pressure that, eventually, breaks opponents.

At the moment if I could I would package Cole + Gary Harris and a potential 1st for said player off the bench. I wonder if Cole "is" that player but didn't do it to start the season. I just don't know, I am starting to see and agree with your side of it. We are in "win now" mode without being in "contender mode". I am sitting here, perplexed by the duality of it.

Paolo is coming back soon. Even if it doesn't mean a sudden 10 game winning streak, and it wont. I am very proud of what AB has done so far, and the in general team resilience.

I do not think Black is a fluke. He had moments early in the season where when healthy, our defense wore teams down, and Black was solely responsible for 3-4 quarter swings in momentum.

[Skybox]

I like the player...I just don't know if he'll ever be what we are lacking rather than just more of what we have enough of already. I'd rather keep him and see what he can become offensively...but he's not off the table for an offensive difference-maker, imo. I'd definitely want frp-equivalent value back for him if another team specifically targeted him and insisted he be included in a trade package...I also fear the possibility that we hold on too long as we've done multiple times.

I think, given our present team status and short as well as longer-term potential that I'd value TdS more than AB. Again, AB would be great, coming off the bench NEXT to one of the defensively-limited scoring combo guards we've endlessly discussed...so, all things considered, I'd really like to keep AB as one more big, long, fierce defender. Our system needs depth to maintain that 48 mins of pressure that, eventually, breaks opponents.

At the moment if I could I would package Cole + Gary Harris and a potential 1st for said player off the bench. I wonder if Cole "is" that player but didn't do it to start the season. I just don't know, I am starting to see and agree with your side of it. We are in "win now" mode without being in "contender mode". I am sitting here, perplexed by the duality of it.

Paolo is coming back soon. Even if it doesn't mean a sudden 10 game winning streak, and it wont. I am very proud of what AB has done so far, and the in general team resilience.

I do not think Black is a fluke. He had moments early in the season where when healthy, our defense wore teams down, and Black was solely responsible for 3-4 quarter swings in momentum.

Maybe you're right, but that sounds like my infrequent golf game...I make 3 or 4 PGA-worthy shots and convince myself that the other 103 bad ones were "flukes"

I honestly am rooting for him - the "vision" of what he could be is tantalizing, but the reality doesn't match up. I'm tired of hanging on to marginal guys for too long and it was a lot less significant while we were in rebuild/assessment period. I'd happily trade Cole but he may be a negative value. I'd be okay with moving Jett and his guaranteed money. I'd be fine with moving Gary, but he's expiring anyway, so I'm sort of indifferent - because we MUST keep our eye on the checkbook as well as talent now. I'd consider moving Isaac for more of a sure thing - but I'm also okay with keeping him at $15m if nobody recognizes and values how impactful he can be. I'd strongly consider moving WCJ because his new role and his new extension no longer make him a bargain. If he could reliably give 20 min of aggressive play off the bench-I'd love him, but it's tiresome watching him in street clothes or dogging it in between flashes of great occasional play....I only offer AB because I assume he has trade value and someone's gotta go out that isn't a negative if you want to bring back talent. Maybe we get lucky and deal with a team with time and a hunger for picks that won't care too much about a relative lack of incoming win-now talent...but then everybody here cries about "firsts". I'd rather keep AB than one of our late firsts.

[eyriq]

Our guy Black with everything going on this season has apparently lost his spot or is playing through injury. Do we know which it is?

I have seen his body language NOT be very mature in a few highlights during the injuries and I cannot help but say that he has done this to himself much like Cole has. Instead of "put me in coach ill rise to the occasion" he has been lost and folded like lawn chair.

Sad, he has all the tools minus a great jump shot. Of which I won't hold against him until KCP returns to his normal %. Shooting is down for the entire team.

He played 26 minutes against New York, 10 mins last night. DNP in the previous 4 games largely due to injury. I don't think it looks like he lost his spot, he's consistently been our 3rd guard in the rotation.

[Bergmaniac]

Thing is, you just can't be an effective playmaker in the current league if you aren't at least an average scorer too. Even a passing savant like Ricky Rubio struggled a lot to be a positive impact player on offense for most of his NBA career because he wasn't a good scorer and he may well be one of the most talented passers ever. I really like Black's defence but to become "the PG of the future" he needs to become a lot better scorer.

[Optimus_Steel]

No doubt that back has been bothering him for a while.

[OrlChamps2030]

Black is one of the worst guard in whole league on offense, he is MCW Junior. Trade him while he still has some value. Dont make the same mistake as we´ve done constantly the last 10 years, holding on to young players who are bad/dont fit, until they have ZERO trade value, like with Payton, Fultz, Cole, Bamba, Fournier, Ross, Hampton, etc.

As I have said before. Black needs minutes and the ability to fail and lose the game. We have retained a "win now" mentality. Cole has shown the ability to play through mistakes when the game isn't going his way. To me this is a character flaw in Black that he needs to adjust and change otherwise he will only be a bench player.

I disagree with MCW compare. He is too young.

Evertyhing else feels mostly accurate though. I don't know if I want to trade him just yet though, on top of that for what? Another late protected 1st? He would need to be part of a salary package where he could potentially get minutes for himself.

Black shouldn’t have been our pick if this is the case.. probably shouldn’t have made the pick at all honestly.

As said many times on here throughout the years, you can’t “win now” and develop projects at the same time.

Hopefully the 2023 draft doesn’t become Weltman’s Waterloo.

[VFX]

Thing is, you just can't be an effective playmaker in the current league if you aren't at least an average scorer too. Even a passing savant like Ricky Rubio struggled a lot to be a positive impact player on offense for most of his NBA career because he wasn't a good scorer and he may well be one of the most talented passers ever. I really like Black's defence but to become "the PG of the future" he needs to become a lot better scorer.

This is the primary issue with Anthony Black.

The NBA doesn't care if you are a 6'7 point guard or wing on offense. Thats a defensive bonus.

The NBA cares about your actual skillset. If you cannot score effectively, are not a good shooter, and aren't capable of generating our own offense, then you are just a defender. Amen Thompson is another example of this. Good athlete and good length. Doesn't do anything exceptional outside of his athleticism, which evaporates your value over the years.

In 2025 you cannot be an effective point guard without the ability to get your own shot. The only exception to this is if you are getting a crazy amount of assists per game. Black hasn't done either of those things yet on a consistent basis and the clock is ticking. I don't want this FO to wait 4-5 seasons like they did with Elfrid or Fultz in order to know this guy is seriously incapable of starting on this roster, while forgoing any other option because it isn't ideal to their grand plan.

And no, I dont buy this idea that he "doesnt need to be" an effective scoring option because Paolo and Franz are those guys. Sorry, I would rather they have that player, rather than make excuses for a guy that cant because its convenient for the narrative. We just spent years making excuses for Fultz' inadequacies and I don't want to be on that train again.

If he isnt that guy by the middle to end on next season, then he needs to be moved, or accept he's a more expensive Mattise Thybulle that they spent a top lotto pick on.

[three3d]

Thing is, you just can't be an effective playmaker in the current league if you aren't at least an average scorer too. Even a passing savant like Ricky Rubio struggled a lot to be a positive impact player on offense for most of his NBA career because he wasn't a good scorer and he may well be one of the most talented passers ever. I really like Black's defence but to become "the PG of the future" he needs to become a lot better scorer.

This is the primary issue with Anthony Black.

The NBA doesn't care if you are a 6'7 point guard or wing on offense. Thats a defensive bonus.

The NBA cares about your actual skillset. If you cannot score effectively, are not a good shooter, and aren't capable of generating our own offense, then you are just a defender. Amen Thompson is another example of this. Good athlete and good length. Doesn't do anything exceptional outside of his athleticism, which evaporates your value over the years.

In 2025 you cannot be an effective point guard without the ability to get your own shot. The only exception to this is if you are getting a crazy amount of assists per game. Black hasn't done either of those things yet and the clock is ticking. I don't want this FO to wait 4-5 seasons like they did with Elfrid or Fultz in order to know this guy is incapable of starting on this roster.

And no, I dont buy this idea that he "doesnt need to be" an effective scoring option because Paolo and Franz are those guys. Sorry, I would rather they have that player, rather than make excuses for a guy that cant because its convenient for the narrative. We just spent years making excuses for Fultz' inadequacies and I don't want to be on that train again.

If he isnt that guy by the middle to end on next season, then he needs to be moved, or accept he's a more expensive Mattise Thybulle.

This is where having your G-League team right there with your NBA team can pay off. I honestly wish they’d send him to Osceola till after the All-Star break. If he can’t be productive, doesn’t even have to be dominant, in the G-League there is a big problem. AB does not have an NBA body yet, nor does a possess elite speed, and ball handling skills. He has to get stronger and work on whatever it is he’s going to be good at and find it

[VFX]

Thing is, you just can't be an effective playmaker in the current league if you aren't at least an average scorer too. Even a passing savant like Ricky Rubio struggled a lot to be a positive impact player on offense for most of his NBA career because he wasn't a good scorer and he may well be one of the most talented passers ever. I really like Black's defence but to become "the PG of the future" he needs to become a lot better scorer.

This is the primary issue with Anthony Black.

The NBA doesn't care if you are a 6'7 point guard or wing on offense. Thats a defensive bonus.

The NBA cares about your actual skillset. If you cannot score effectively, are not a good shooter, and aren't capable of generating our own offense, then you are just a defender. Amen Thompson is another example of this. Good athlete and good length. Doesn't do anything exceptional outside of his athleticism, which evaporates your value over the years.

In 2025 you cannot be an effective point guard without the ability to get your own shot. The only exception to this is if you are getting a crazy amount of assists per game. Black hasn't done either of those things yet and the clock is ticking. I don't want this FO to wait 4-5 seasons like they did with Elfrid or Fultz in order to know this guy is incapable of starting on this roster.

And no, I dont buy this idea that he "doesnt need to be" an effective scoring option because Paolo and Franz are those guys. Sorry, I would rather they have that player, rather than make excuses for a guy that cant because its convenient for the narrative. We just spent years making excuses for Fultz' inadequacies and I don't want to be on that train again.

If he isnt that guy by the middle to end on next season, then he needs to be moved, or accept he's a more expensive Mattise Thybulle.

This is where having your G-League team right there with your NBA team can pay off. I honestly wish they’d send him to Osceola till after the All-Star break. If he can’t be productive, doesn’t even have to be dominant, in the G-League there is a big problem. AB does not have an NBA body yet, nor does a possess elite speed, and ball handling skills. He has to get stronger and work on whatever it is he’s going to be good at and find it

Sorry, but no.

He's the #6 lottery pick in year 2 playing 23.7 mpg.

He needs to prove he can be in an nba rotation playing with the big boys or he needs to be moved asap. Jett Howard can afford to be in the g-league for 1 season with a plethora of wings beating him our for minutes.

AB? No chance. Who is he competing for minutes with? Cole Anthony who looks like dog **** 90% of the time this year? 34 year old Cory Jospeh? He has no excuse to not be on the court.

Package him up if he looks like a perpetual backup in year 3-3.5 on a team with no real point guard. I'm all for letting young prospects pan out, but Im just not seeing it with AB yet. I couldn't tell you what he does well on offense aside from occasionally driving to the rim or drawing fouls sometimes.

[tiderulz]

This is the primary issue with Anthony Black.

The NBA doesn't care if you are a 6'7 point guard or wing on offense. Thats a defensive bonus.

The NBA cares about your actual skillset. If you cannot score effectively, are not a good shooter, and aren't capable of generating our own offense, then you are just a defender. Amen Thompson is another example of this. Good athlete and good length. Doesn't do anything exceptional outside of his athleticism, which evaporates your value over the years.

In 2025 you cannot be an effective point guard without the ability to get your own shot. The only exception to this is if you are getting a crazy amount of assists per game. Black hasn't done either of those things yet and the clock is ticking. I don't want this FO to wait 4-5 seasons like they did with Elfrid or Fultz in order to know this guy is incapable of starting on this roster.

And no, I dont buy this idea that he "doesnt need to be" an effective scoring option because Paolo and Franz are those guys. Sorry, I would rather they have that player, rather than make excuses for a guy that cant because its convenient for the narrative. We just spent years making excuses for Fultz' inadequacies and I don't want to be on that train again.

If he isnt that guy by the middle to end on next season, then he needs to be moved, or accept he's a more expensive Mattise Thybulle.

This is where having your G-League team right there with your NBA team can pay off. I honestly wish they’d send him to Osceola till after the All-Star break. If he can’t be productive, doesn’t even have to be dominant, in the G-League there is a big problem. AB does not have an NBA body yet, nor does a possess elite speed, and ball handling skills. He has to get stronger and work on whatever it is he’s going to be good at and find it

Sorry, but no.

He's the #6 lottery pick in year 2 playing 23.7 mpg.

He needs to prove he can be in an nba rotation playing with the big boys or he needs to be moved asap. Jett Howard can afford to be in the g-league for 1 season with a plethora of wings beating him our for minutes.

AB? No chance. Who is he competing for minutes with? Cole Anthony who looks like dog **** 90% of the time this year? 34 year old Cory Jospeh? He has no excuse to not be on the court.

Package him up if he looks like a perpetual backup in year 3-3.5 on a team with no real point guard. I'm all for letting young prospects pan out, but Im just not seeing it with AB yet. I couldn't tell you what he does well on offense aside from occasionally driving to the rim or drawing fouls sometimes.

Jalen Suggs, at 10 ppg , 32% from 3, started less than half his games played in his 2nd year was called a bust by people around the league. And that was after being a starter from day 1 shooting 35% from the field and 21% from 3. I agree AB needs playing time, but it wouldnt hurt to rebuild some confidence with the G League team with consistent minutes. Baseball always seems to have this right, players dont get their feelings hurt to go to Triple A and then come back up. But if a player cant get minutes on an NBA team, which can be hard with a team that is winning, there never seems to be a thought to get minutes going even for a week or 2 in the G league

[basketballRob]

AB tweaked his back while carrying the team.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

AB tweaked his back while carrying the team.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Facts

He's 6th in minutes on a team that is better than last year, all without Paolo for the bulk of the season. He's already proving he belongs in an NBA rotation. Talk about the g-league is over-indexed on his poor offense and ignoring his defense.

In fairness he's been particularly bad lately.

[Rainwater]

Black’s play is more up and down than a yo-yo. Some days he looks like a star, other days he looks like a bench player. But it really seems like the Magic have faith in him. And it did take Suggs a while before he got consistent might be the same case for Black.

[basketballRob]

He had 2 last second 3 pt attempts yesterday that made his average look worse

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Idiosyncratic]

Black’s play is more up and down than a yo-yo. Some days he looks like a star, other days he looks like a bench player. But it really seems like the Magic have faith in him. And it did take Suggs a while before he got consistent might be the same case for Black.

Yeah, but not unexpected from someone in their 2nd year. 3rd year is usually when the leap occurs. If he looks unimproved the 1st half of next year he maybe needs a change of scenery. Of course then his value will be lower, but I think given where we are on our timeline, that is a risk worth taking.

FWIW, I think he's shown a lot of improvement this year, though it isn't showing up much in his stats yet. He's showing some real shiftiness when driving and to me he has shown more passing vision than I thought he had. Needs time and confidence.

His minutes have been mostly fine this year. Last night I assume he played such a small amount of time because of injury and the back to back. If Mosley starts going to Cole over him when we (and AB) are healthy then I will start questioning the strategy. Even if Mosley gets to the point where he thinks Cole is a better option ( he isn't) I would rather even lose a couple extra games this season to develop AB. And the same goes for Jett over TQ and Harris. Rather keep their minutes consistent, even if it lost us a couple extra games. And given the alternatives I'm not sure it would lose us many extra games.

[pepe1991]

If you go on GB, Amen Thompson is next Jordan and Ausar is at worst, new Lebron
Why nba always attracts complete lunatics ?

[OrlChamps2030]

If you go on GB, Amen Thompson is next Jordan and Ausar is at worst, new Lebron
Why nba always attracts complete lunatics ?

Fan is short for fanatic

There were grown men on here wearing t shirts with Elfrid Payton’s face on it