Nets - Kings - Wolves

[LightTheBeam]

Updating OP to make it much simpler.

Wolves out: McDaniels, 2nds
Wolves in: Cam Johnson

Why for the Wolves? Make a move to get more shooting in the building.
Conley - Ant - Cam - Randle - Gobert
Naw - DDV - Naz

Kings out: Huerter, Colby Jones, unprotected 1st + 2nd
Kings in: Jaden McDaniels

Why for Sac? Add in a legit starting forward who can help defensively next to Sabonis. Keon, McDaniels, Keegan is a great defensive trio between Fox/Sabonis.
Fox - Keon - Murray - McDaniels - Sabonis
Carter - Monk - DeRozan -Lyles

Nets out: Cam Johnson
Nets in: Huerter, Sac 1st, Sac 2nd, Minnesota 2nds

Nets so far haven't found a team willing to give 2 1sts for Cam. Here they shed a bit of salary, get a 1st and 3 2nds.

[winforlose]

Need help with draft compensation. Obviously Kings owe Nets here. Do the Wolves owe?

Wolves out: Randle, McDaniels, (do they owe a pick here?)
Wolves in: Cam Johnson, Bojan, Lyles, Ziarie

Why for the Wolves? Make a move to get more shooting in the building, Randle hasn't worked out. This team should be far better balanced post trade and still a good defensive squad.
Conley - Ant - Cam - Naz - Gobert
Naw - DDV - Bojan - Ziaire - Lyles

Kings out: Huerter, Lyles, at least 1 unprotected 1st, possibly 2?
Kings in: Jaden McDaniels

Why for Sac? Add in a legit starting forward who can help defensively next to Sabonis. Keon, McDaniels, Keegan is a great defensive trio between Fox/Sabonis. We will 1000% need to make another move for a backup 4/5, but I figure that out later.
Fox - Keon - Murray - McDaniels - Sabonis
Carter - Monk - DeRozan - Len

Nets out: Cam Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Bojan
Nets in: Randle, Huerter, Picks (how many 2 from Sac, 1 from Minnesota?)

Nets so far haven't found a team willing to give 2 1sts for Cam. Here they maximize the return including Williams, and taking back bad salary for next year.

Is this 1 1st from Sac, 1 from Minnesota, 2 from Sac, 2nds from Minnesota, or 2 from Sac and 1 from Minnesota?

To start the 3rd quarter against the Pels the Wolves failed twice to get the ball across half court. It took over 1 full minute and giving up 6+ points to even get a possession that could be considered properly offensive (pun intended.) If we don’t get a PG back there is no point. Wolves giving up Jaden for Cam is interesting. Giving up Jaden and Randle while Getting back no true PG and no true C, not happening.

[oldncreaky]

I have MIN as a quick no

They are trading out 2 starters for 1, plus 3 guys irrelevant to a playoff rotation. Randle is MIN's second option as well.

[drchaos]

I think for the right assets the Nets would be smart to take a bad contract in Huerter who expires in time for Summer of 2026.

The only thing I see wrong here is that some team trying to win a chip this year might want Randle.

Sending him to a fourth team might bring back something of value to add to the mix here.

[LightTheBeam]

Need help with draft compensation. Obviously Kings owe Nets here. Do the Wolves owe?

Wolves out: Randle, McDaniels, (do they owe a pick here?)
Wolves in: Cam Johnson, Bojan, Lyles, Ziarie

Why for the Wolves? Make a move to get more shooting in the building, Randle hasn't worked out. This team should be far better balanced post trade and still a good defensive squad.
Conley - Ant - Cam - Naz - Gobert
Naw - DDV - Bojan - Ziaire - Lyles

Kings out: Huerter, Lyles, at least 1 unprotected 1st, possibly 2?
Kings in: Jaden McDaniels

Why for Sac? Add in a legit starting forward who can help defensively next to Sabonis. Keon, McDaniels, Keegan is a great defensive trio between Fox/Sabonis. We will 1000% need to make another move for a backup 4/5, but I figure that out later.
Fox - Keon - Murray - McDaniels - Sabonis
Carter - Monk - DeRozan - Len

Nets out: Cam Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Bojan
Nets in: Randle, Huerter, Picks (how many 2 from Sac, 1 from Minnesota?)

Nets so far haven't found a team willing to give 2 1sts for Cam. Here they maximize the return including Williams, and taking back bad salary for next year.

Is this 1 1st from Sac, 1 from Minnesota, 2 from Sac, 2nds from Minnesota, or 2 from Sac and 1 from Minnesota?

To start the 3rd quarter against the Pels the Wolves failed twice to get the ball across half court. It took over 1 full minute and giving up 6+ points to even get a possession that could be considered properly offensive (pun intended.) If we don’t get a PG back there is no point. Wolves giving up Jaden for Cam is interesting. Giving up Jaden and Randle while Getting back no true PG and no true C, not happening.

I have MIN as a quick no

They are trading out 2 starters for 1, plus 3 guys irrelevant to a playoff rotation. Randle is MIN's second option as well.

Maybe I missed here. I was under the impression that Minnesota was ready to move on from Randle. The deal is actually much cleaner without him involved.

I was thinking Minnesota could then re-route Bojan and Rob for a new starting pg.

Cam to Minnesota
McDaniels to Sac
Huerter + filler + picks to Brookyln

Not sure what that changes, but I'll adjust OP

[winforlose]

Need help with draft compensation. Obviously Kings owe Nets here. Do the Wolves owe?

Wolves out: Randle, McDaniels, (do they owe a pick here?)
Wolves in: Cam Johnson, Bojan, Lyles, Ziarie

Why for the Wolves? Make a move to get more shooting in the building, Randle hasn't worked out. This team should be far better balanced post trade and still a good defensive squad.
Conley - Ant - Cam - Naz - Gobert
Naw - DDV - Bojan - Ziaire - Lyles

Kings out: Huerter, Lyles, at least 1 unprotected 1st, possibly 2?
Kings in: Jaden McDaniels

Why for Sac? Add in a legit starting forward who can help defensively next to Sabonis. Keon, McDaniels, Keegan is a great defensive trio between Fox/Sabonis. We will 1000% need to make another move for a backup 4/5, but I figure that out later.
Fox - Keon - Murray - McDaniels - Sabonis
Carter - Monk - DeRozan - Len

Nets out: Cam Johnson, Ziaire Williams, Bojan
Nets in: Randle, Huerter, Picks (how many 2 from Sac, 1 from Minnesota?)

Nets so far haven't found a team willing to give 2 1sts for Cam. Here they maximize the return including Williams, and taking back bad salary for next year.

Is this 1 1st from Sac, 1 from Minnesota, 2 from Sac, 2nds from Minnesota, or 2 from Sac and 1 from Minnesota?

To start the 3rd quarter against the Pels the Wolves failed twice to get the ball across half court. It took over 1 full minute and giving up 6+ points to even get a possession that could be considered properly offensive (pun intended.) If we don’t get a PG back there is no point. Wolves giving up Jaden for Cam is interesting. Giving up Jaden and Randle while Getting back no true PG and no true C, not happening.

I have MIN as a quick no

They are trading out 2 starters for 1, plus 3 guys irrelevant to a playoff rotation. Randle is MIN's second option as well.

Maybe I missed here. I was under the impression that Minnesota was ready to move on from Randle. The deal is actually much cleaner without him involved.

I was thinking Minnesota could then re-route Bojan and Rob for a new starting pg.

Cam to Minnesota
McDaniels to Sac
Huerter + filler + picks to Brookyln

Not sure what that changes, but I'll adjust OP

We are. But I have McDaniels and Cam as value equal. Cam is the better scorer, but MCD is the better defender and again 24 years old with 5 years of control and an amazing playoff run defensively with some nice offensive performances. Cam is shooting very well to start the season, but I have doubts that it stays this good long term. He 4 years older, has 2 years less control, and is not the defender MCD is. You might argue MCD is not worth Cam, that is debate for another day. But MCD is a 20+ million contract. If we move MCD, we need Randle to return what we need. You have 3 bad players and an undisclosed second move giving up a #8 overall pick for a PG. This trade is DOA.

[LightTheBeam]

To start the 3rd quarter against the Pels the Wolves failed twice to get the ball across half court. It took over 1 full minute and giving up 6+ points to even get a possession that could be considered properly offensive (pun intended.) If we don’t get a PG back there is no point. Wolves giving up Jaden for Cam is interesting. Giving up Jaden and Randle while Getting back no true PG and no true C, not happening.

I have MIN as a quick no

They are trading out 2 starters for 1, plus 3 guys irrelevant to a playoff rotation. Randle is MIN's second option as well.

Maybe I missed here. I was under the impression that Minnesota was ready to move on from Randle. The deal is actually much cleaner without him involved.

I was thinking Minnesota could then re-route Bojan and Rob for a new starting pg.

Cam to Minnesota
McDaniels to Sac
Huerter + filler + picks to Brookyln

Not sure what that changes, but I'll adjust OP

We are. But I have McDaniels and Cam as value equal. Cam is the better scorer, but MCD is the better defender and again 24 years old with 5 years of control and an amazing playoff run defensively with some nice offensive performances. Cam is shooting very well to start the season, but I have doubts that it stays this good long term. He 4 years older, has 1 years less control, and is not the defender MCD is. You might argue MCD is not worth Cam, that is debate for another day. But MCD is a 20+ million contract. If we move MCD, we need Randle to return what we need. You have 3 bad players and an undisclosed second move giving up a #8 overall pick for a PG. This trade is DOA.

Wouldn't really call Ziaire and Lyles bad. Both are fine bench forwards.

That said, what are your thoughts on the new version?

Essentially McD for Cam. I think Sac would value a guy like McDaniels more, where a team like Minnesota with Ant/Gobert/Randle would clearly value the shooting more. Could still use Randle to upgrade pg while getting another forward.

[winforlose]

Maybe I missed here. I was under the impression that Minnesota was ready to move on from Randle. The deal is actually much cleaner without him involved.

I was thinking Minnesota could then re-route Bojan and Rob for a new starting pg.

Cam to Minnesota
McDaniels to Sac
Huerter + filler + picks to Brookyln

Not sure what that changes, but I'll adjust OP

We are. But I have McDaniels and Cam as value equal. Cam is the better scorer, but MCD is the better defender and again 24 years old with 5 years of control and an amazing playoff run defensively with some nice offensive performances. Cam is shooting very well to start the season, but I have doubts that it stays this good long term. He 4 years older, has 1 years less control, and is not the defender MCD is. You might argue MCD is not worth Cam, that is debate for another day. But MCD is a 20+ million contract. If we move MCD, we need Randle to return what we need. You have 3 bad players and an undisclosed second move giving up a #8 overall pick for a PG. This trade is DOA.

Wouldn't really call Ziaire and Lyles bad. Both are fine bench forwards.

That said, what are your thoughts on the new version?

Essentially McD for Cam. I think Sac would value a guy like McDaniels more, where a team like Minnesota with Ant/Gobert/Randle would clearly value the shooting more. Could still use Randle to upgrade pg while getting another forward.

I wouldn’t move MCD without knowing what we got for Randle first. His money is to essential as an off ramp, and he is too close to Ant. If Ant were happier I would be more inclined. I see Cam Johnson as being better now, but MCD being much more valuable in a couple years. Especially in a system that didn’t park him in a corner. I am not sure the Wolves want to make the defensive sacrifice for a short term offensive gain that is likely to regress.

[wolves_89]

The original trade is a definite no for Minnesota.

For the Wolves in the revised trade the value of McDaniels+2nd for Johnson is reasonable, but I'm not convinced of the fit. If Minnesota wanted more shooting in the starting lineup they just plug in NAW for Jaden without losing much on defense. It makes much more sense for Minnesota if Johnson is replacing Randle. About the only trade I see between the Wolves and Nets would be something built around Randle for Johnson.

[drchaos]

The original trade is a definite no for Minnesota.

For the Wolves in the revised trade the value of McDaniels+2nd for Johnson is reasonable, but I'm not convinced of the fit. If Minnesota wanted more shooting in the starting lineup they just plug in NAW for Jaden without losing much on defense. It makes much more sense for Minnesota if Johnson is replacing Randle. About the only trade I see between the Wolves and Nets would be something built around Randle for Johnson.

The Nets have no reason to take a more expensive McDaniels for Cam J and a second rounder.

They would be better off just keeping Cam.

[Texas Chuck]

The version of this that now exists in the OP is interesting to me. I know there will be all kinds of fights over value as McDaniels and Cam Johnson tend to be highly valued by their fanbases, but nothing seems out of line on value here to me and I like the pieces.

[winforlose]

The version of this that now exists in the OP is interesting to me. I know there will be all kinds of fights over value as McDaniels and Cam Johnson tend to be highly valued by their fanbases, but nothing seems out of line on value here to me and I like the pieces.

Until Randle is moved the Wolves are not moving anyone else. We have very specific needs, and if the Randle trade doesn’t address them, McDaniels money is next up.

P.S the Wolves value MCD more than Johnson so the trade is DOA.

[SkyHook]

It's probably close, but from my perspective I'd give up more for McDaniels than for Johnson so the value there seems a bit off to me.

[shrink]

McDaniels is a top ten defensive player in the NBA, if the All NBA award means that. Cam is a better scorer, but is he a top ten NBA offensive player?

I just stopped by to say that Randle is fitting in better and better in MIN. His defensive has been pretty good the last three games, and he’s the team’s #2 scorer, #2 rebounder, #1 assist guy, and shooting an acceptable 3P 36%. Many MIN fans still scapegoat him, but I suspect the front office realizes that a Randle trade just creates many more holes on the roster.

[Godaddycurse]

McDaniels is a top ten defensive player in the NBA, if the All NBA award means that. Cam is a better scorer, but is he a top ten NBA offensive player?

Top 10 offense players are usually your 1st and 2nd team all nbas though

[shrink]

McDaniels is a top ten defensive player in the NBA, if the All NBA award means that. Cam is a better scorer, but is he a top ten NBA offensive player?

Top 10 offense players are usually your 1st and 2nd team all nbas though

That’s my point. While we tend to glorify offense, half of each basketball game is played on the defensive side of the court.

There are many other factors to determine trade value of course, including contract, fit, Jaden’s slow start, etc. Even in the NBA, we see contracts skew higher for offensive players. But one look at the standings demonstrates that defense is at least as important.

It matters that Jaden was a top ten defender last year, and was an even better defender the year before. Is Cam even a top 50 offensive player? Having a skillset that is truly unique drives value, and I don’t think Cam and Jaden are particularly close in value because of that. So yeah, I think the Kings would very much prefer Jaden McDaniels to Cam. He brings something that isn’t easily duplicated (or surpassed) on the team.

[OxAndFox]

McDaniels is a top ten defensive player in the NBA, if the All NBA award means that. Cam is a better scorer, but is he a top ten NBA offensive player?

Top 10 offense players are usually your 1st and 2nd team all nbas though

That’s my point. While we tend to glorify offense, half of each basketball game is played on the defensive side of the court.

There are many other factors to determine trade value of course, including contract, fit, Jaden’s slow start, etc. Even in the NBA, we see contracts skew higher for offensive players. But one look at the standings demonstrates that defense is at least as important.

It matters that Jaden was a top ten defender last year, and was an even better defender the year before. Is Cam even a top 50 offensive player? Having a skillset that is truly unique drives value, and I don’t think Cam and Jaden are particularly close in value because of that. So yeah, I think the Kings would very much prefer Jaden McDaniels to Cam. He brings something that isn’t easily duplicated (or surpassed) on the team.

For me, I pick McDaniels 10/10. I just love his game. I know he has had a rough start shooting the ball, but what he can do on the defensive end actually changes games. Not all defenders are made like this and to me that's important to note.
And to top it off he is on a good contract for the next 4 years after this one.

[LightTheBeam]

It's probably close, but from my perspective I'd give up more for McDaniels than for Johnson so the value there seems a bit off to me.

I have their values pretty close, but I try to look at who the top 6 teams in each conference would prefer.

Cavs - Cam
Celts - Lean Cam
Knicks - Lean McDaniels
Magic - Cam
Bucks - Cam
Heat - Lean Cam
Thunder - Cam
Rockets - Cam
Grizzlies - Cam
Nuggets - Toss up
Mavs - McDaniels
Lakers - Toss up

I've got the majority of the top tier playoff teams preferring Cam's significant volume and 12% bump in 3pt shooting.

Now lower tier teams like Kings and Utah, there's a good argument that McDaniels makes a lot more sense because the defense. And he is young enough to be apart of a rebuild effort so maybe that changes the typical calculation. Kings have Sabonis, McDaniels is a better fit to cover him. Jazz already have Lauri, McDaniels compliments him better than Cam.

[Godaddycurse]

It's probably close, but from my perspective I'd give up more for McDaniels than for Johnson so the value there seems a bit off to me.

I have their values pretty close, but I try to look at who the top 6 teams in each conference would prefer.

Cavs - Cam
Celts - Lean Cam
Knicks - Lean McDaniels
Magic - Cam
Bucks - Cam
Heat - Lean Cam
Thunder - Cam
Rockets - Cam
Grizzlies - Cam
Nuggets - Toss up
Mavs - McDaniels
Lakers - Toss up

I've got the majority of the top tier playoff teams preferring Cam's significant volume and 12% bump in 3pt shooting.

Now lower tier teams like Kings and Utah, there's a good argument that McDaniels makes a lot more sense because the defense. And he is young enough to be apart of a rebuild effort so maybe that changes the typical calculation. Kings have Sabonis, McDaniels is a better fit to cover him. Jazz already have Lauri, McDaniels compliments him better than Cam.

The flipside is on many of those teams cam would become the 4th or even 5th option and his offensive impact/touches would be decreased. McDaniels on the other hand would fit just fine as a 5th option on offense

[LightTheBeam]

It's probably close, but from my perspective I'd give up more for McDaniels than for Johnson so the value there seems a bit off to me.

I have their values pretty close, but I try to look at who the top 6 teams in each conference would prefer.

Cavs - Cam
Celts - Lean Cam
Knicks - Lean McDaniels
Magic - Cam
Bucks - Cam
Heat - Lean Cam
Thunder - Cam
Rockets - Cam
Grizzlies - Cam
Nuggets - Toss up
Mavs - McDaniels
Lakers - Toss up

I've got the majority of the top tier playoff teams preferring Cam's significant volume and 12% bump in 3pt shooting.

Now lower tier teams like Kings and Utah, there's a good argument that McDaniels makes a lot more sense because the defense. And he is young enough to be apart of a rebuild effort so maybe that changes the typical calculation. Kings have Sabonis, McDaniels is a better fit to cover him. Jazz already have Lauri, McDaniels compliments him better than Cam.

The flipside is on many of those teams cam would become the 4th or even 5th option and his offensive impact/touches would be decreased. McDaniels on the other hand would fit just fine as a 5th option on offense

That's true. But does Cleveland want a 3rd starter who struggles to hit 3s? Does Milwaukee want a guy who stuffs the paint for Giannis? Do the Rockets who can't hit a 3 and already have 4 defensive forwards want another one?

One reason or another I think all the ones I listed above go Cam. High level teams typically already have a good defense, hard to incorporate a non shooter into the rotation. Even if Cam reverts to a spot up 3pt shooter averaging 12-14ppg, he still makes everyones life easier.