DAL-MIA-POR: Butler revisited

realEAST · Post #1 » by **realEAST** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:39 am

DAL in: J. Butler, P. Larsen, K. Johnson, D. Reath
DAL out: D. Gafford, N. Marshall, K. Thompson, M. Kleber, D. Powell, 2025 DAL 1st

MIA in: D. Gafford, N. Marshall, K. Thompson, M. Kleber, 2025 DAL 1st
MIA out: J. Butler, P. Larsen, K. Johnson

POR in: D. Powell, 2025 PHI 2nd, 2025 DAL 2nd
POR out: D. Reath

Dallas adds Jimmy, while retaining PJ Washington, adds Reath as backup big.

Miami add Gafford and Marshall as younger, useful role players, while Klay and Kleber also can help; get 2025 1st rounder too.

Portland gets two 2nds for taking on Powell and dealing D. Reath.

Irving - Doncic - Butler - Washington - Lively
Dinwiddie - Hardy - Grimes - Prosper - Reath

jayjaysee · Post #2 » by **jayjaysee** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:53 am

K George? K Johnson? Can’t be traded this year. But he doesn’t really matter to the trade I don’t think.

A fourth team getting the Klay/Gafford package would make it better for Miami IMO. But value wise this feels on par..

Still think Dallas should do any legal variation of these if the Venetian, Luka, and Kai like it.

Apz · Post #3 » by **Apz** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:03 pm

Big 3 is dead, its so 2010. No way mavs should sacrifice that to overpay butler

realEAST · Post #4 » by **realEAST** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:34 pm

jayjaysee wrote:K George? K Johnson? Can’t be traded this year. But he doesn’t really matter to the trade I don’t think.

A fourth team getting the Klay/Gafford package would make it better for Miami IMO. But value wise this feels on par..

Still think Dallas should do any legal variation of these if the Venetian, Luka, and Kai like it.

K. Johnson, that's right, thx... I just included him because of his low salary, as he enables Dallas to reach 14 players treshold. Didn't know he can't be traded this year, worked at Fanspo trade machine, but saw now at sportac that he has trade restriction unitl 26.3. Dallas would have to find a way to add another player, and would have around 1 mil to do so, but since it is mid season, think they could do it. Worst case, trade Exum for min deal to open up enough space under the apron.

Post #5 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:12 pm

Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

Post #6 » by **Mavrelous** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:17 pm

Massive overpay for 35 y/o disgruntled star looking for a 3 yr contract, regardless, Dallas aren't trading their depth mid season, especially with the current injuries.

SkyHook · Post #7 » by **SkyHook** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:01 pm

Are any of the three teams happy after this? Seems to be a lose-lose-lose scenario.

realEAST · Post #8 » by **realEAST** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:48 pm

Mavrelous wrote:Massive overpay for 35 y/o disgruntled star looking for a 3 yr contract, regardless, Dallas aren't trading their depth mid season, especially with the current injuries.

That's part of the reason why he is affordable, but nonetheless, Butler is still a significant upgrade for the team, especially come PO and rotations shorten.
And I think he'd be even more important given the current injuries, as the guy who can run the team while Luka and Kyrie are out.

I mean, it certainly is a trade off, but I think puts Dallas closer to title through next two to three seasons.

daoneandonly · Post #9 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:50 pm

Mavrelous wrote:Massive overpay for 35 y/o disgruntled star looking for a 3 yr contract, regardless, Dallas aren't trading their depth mid season, especially with the current injuries.

Agreed, not giving up this kind of value for an aging, injury prone, bad attitude star. Just doesn't make sense at all for Dallas to go this route. Look at the top teams in the West, they consist of young, athletic stars; not guys on their last legs

realEAST · Post #10 » by **realEAST** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:53 pm

BBallFreak wrote:Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

Don't think Larsson would be a hold up in a deal like this, and as for cap space, don't think Miami is getting a plate of expiring deals in any case.

In this construction, Marshall is a really good deal and Gafford has positive value for sure; Kleber is expiring next year and shouldn't be problem to move, even ahead of deadline. Klay has that extra year, but I think he could also be traded for an expiring deal without much problem (DET, LAC, etc.)

Post #11 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:01 pm

Are the Vegas guys willing to pay Butler what keeps him happy and pay Grimes? If so you probably have to do this even though the big man depth for this year is just absurdly thin.

Post #12 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 4:15 pm

realEAST wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

Don't think Larsson would be a hold up in a deal like this, and as for cap space, don't think Miami is getting a plate of expiring deals in any case.

I didn't say Larsson would hold up the deal, I said he shouldn't be in the deal. Miami isn't in a position to sacrifice young talent and he has no value anyway.

As far as contracts go, I don't agree. I think if we wanted expiring contracts, holding out for that would be worth our while, but I didn't say expiring. We're not targeting this offseason, we're targeting the following offseason. I don't feel that's unreasonable.

In this construction, Marshall is a really good deal and Gafford has positive value for sure; Kleber is expiring next year and shouldn't be problem to move, even ahead of deadline. Klay has that extra year, but I think he could also be traded for an expiring deal without much problem (DET, LAC, etc.)

So, do that. Make those moves. But as currently constructed, this trade doesn't work for Miami. We have no need for Gafford, Thompson shouldn't waste the end of his career with us since we're not going to be contending (and he, also, isn't a need for us), and while I like Marshall, he also doesn't really fill a need. I see Maxi as filler at this point.

So this is taking on contracts that don't really help us, for a late first. We need a point guard who can start. We could use a legit power forward who can space the floor and play defense. Get us that!

I'm so tired of people telling us what we should settle for but not actually considering things. You, yourself, told us all that those pieces could be flipped for value. Well, you know what we value.

Post #13 » by **165bows** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:29 pm

BBallFreak wrote:Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

What’s their (set of) targets next summer? Haven’t looked at FA coming up/curious.

Post #14 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:32 pm

165bows wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

What’s their (set of) targets next summer? Haven’t looked at FA coming up/curious.

Not sure if it's just about free agency or the ability to trade and streamline.

Malapropism · Post #15 » by **Malapropism** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:38 pm

Portland is not going into the lux tax for 2 seconds come on now.

tester551 · Post #16 » by **tester551** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:40 pm

SkyHook wrote:Are any of the three teams happy after this? Seems to be a lose-lose-lose scenario.

It's decent for Portland.
I'd probably do it.... 2 seconds for ~$2M in additional salary obligations?

tester551 · Post #17 » by **tester551** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:43 pm

Malapropism wrote:Portland is not going into the lux tax for 2 seconds come on now.

Portland has enough space that this wouldn't kick them into the tax.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers/tax

Currently sitting $3.7M below the tax line.

Powell ($4M) - Reath ($2M) = $2M of additional salary.... so still below the tax by $1.7M

jayjaysee · Post #18 » by **jayjaysee** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:47 pm

BBallFreak wrote:Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

The only contract that extends is Klay? I want to think there’s a two year deal that Klay could be flipped for? Vincent, Wood and JHS for Klay? LAL would have room to sign a vet min after and they get Klay instead of Vincent? Feels like LAL should run for that deal.

Whether Dallas gets Larrson or signs a rest of season contract, that doesn’t really change anything for Dallas or their cap situation?

If the Venetian is willing to pay Butler (and some depth) and Luka/Kai are happy with it.. This offer should be there.

Post #19 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:50 pm

Malapropism wrote:Portland is not going into the lux tax for 2 seconds come on now.

Agreed. This is a huge problem with the proposed trade.

Post #20 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:38 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

The only contract that extends is Klay? I want to think there’s a two year deal that Klay could be flipped for? Vincent, Wood and JHS for Klay? LAL would have room to sign a vet min after and they get Klay instead of Vincent? Feels like LAL should run for that deal.

Whether Dallas gets Larrson or signs a rest of season contract, that doesn’t really change anything for Dallas or their cap situation?

If the Venetian is willing to pay Butler (and some depth) and Luka/Kai are happy with it.. This offer should be there.

Not arguing with any of that, but like with Beal, I don't see offloading Thompson as our responsibility.