DAL-MIA-POR: Butler revisited

[jayjaysee]

Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

The only contract that extends is Klay? I want to think there’s a two year deal that Klay could be flipped for? Vincent, Wood and JHS for Klay? LAL would have room to sign a vet min after and they get Klay instead of Vincent? Feels like LAL should run for that deal.

Whether Dallas gets Larrson or signs a rest of season contract, that doesn’t really change anything for Dallas or their cap situation?

If the Venetian is willing to pay Butler (and some depth) and Luka/Kai are happy with it.. This offer should be there.

Not arguing with any of that, but like with Beal, o don't see offloading Thompson as our responsibility.

Doesn’t seem like it’s negotiating in good faith to compare those two contracts really.

One guy is probably 4-6 million overpaid a year at most? One guy is probably 30 million overpaid a year?… Klay’s third year it’s probably fair to guess is more overpaid than those first two, despite the rising cap.

but don’t necessarily disagree with the larger point of Dallas having to do it. And would expect it to be pretty easy since Miami is willing to take on two year bad deals, just not 3

[165bows]

Johnson can't be dealt, Larsson shouldn't be dealt. Miami shouldn't touch this. They want there cap space for 2026 and that's compromised here

What’s their (set of) targets next summer? Haven’t looked at FA coming up/curious.

Not sure if it's just about free agency or the ability to trade and streamline.

Right there’s pure FA and then the expiring/impending FA trade market. I hesitated to ask but I was curious what the best/middle/low case scenarios out there are, haven’t looked at it at all yet.

[BBallFreak]

What’s their (set of) targets next summer? Haven’t looked at FA coming up/curious.

Not sure if it's just about free agency or the ability to trade and streamline.

Right there’s pure FA and then the expiring/impending FA trade market. I hesitated to ask but I was curious what the best/middle/low case scenarios out there are, haven’t looked at it at all yet.

Neither have I. But I know a couple of big names are out there, I'm sure cap space can be used to acquire players under contract, and I'm sure role players can be acquired to augment the core.

[BBallFreak]

The only contract that extends is Klay? I want to think there’s a two year deal that Klay could be flipped for? Vincent, Wood and JHS for Klay? LAL would have room to sign a vet min after and they get Klay instead of Vincent? Feels like LAL should run for that deal.

Whether Dallas gets Larrson or signs a rest of season contract, that doesn’t really change anything for Dallas or their cap situation?

If the Venetian is willing to pay Butler (and some depth) and Luka/Kai are happy with it.. This offer should be there.

Not arguing with any of that, but like with Beal, o don't see offloading Thompson as our responsibility.

Doesn’t seem like it’s negotiating in good faith to compare those two contracts really.

One guy is probably 4-6 million overpaid a year at most? One guy is probably 30 million overpaid a year?… Klay’s third year it’s probably fair to guess is more overpaid than those first two, despite the rising cap.

but don’t necessarily disagree with the larger point of Dallas having to do it. And would expect it to be pretty easy since Miami is willing to take on two year bad deals, just not 3

I think you're missing my point. It's not that Thompson and Beal are at all the same, it's that Dallas is trying to get Butler from us. They owe us the courtesy of a trade package we actually want. I'm suggesting that the package, as is, doesn't satisfy Miami.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't want to get into the specifics on any deal because they can all be argued, but do want to address that I think things with Butler are at a point where Miami is probably going to have to make some compromises in a trade. I think there are deals that make sense for them even if they come with money on the books 2 years from now. Miami is a master at cap manipulation so I don't have an MLE sized deal for instance standing in the way of a positive outcome from the saga.

On this board we are way too often willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And it makes discussions so difficult because we have so many posters so adamant their team will never accept X or less than Y or.... And then we see the Nets role players moved for 2nds. We see Deni traded for far less than the first overall pick plus. We see Dallas give up an unprotected swap to dump one MLE year of a player I was still championing lol.

Our teams often accept less than we think. Our teams often make moves we think they wouldn't. Again to be clear, I don't think Dallas is a Butler team and I am not telling anyone the Heat should take that specific offer in the OP. But I don't believe this public stance of what they want to be something to be used to kill all ideas either.

[jayjaysee]

but don’t necessarily disagree with the larger point of Dallas having to do it. And would expect it to be pretty easy since Miami is willing to take on two year bad deals, just not 3

I think you're missing my point. It's not that Thompson and Beal are at all the same, it's that Dallas is trying to get Butler from us. They owe us the courtesy of a trade package we actually want. I'm suggesting that the package, as is, doesn't satisfy Miami.

“Having to do it” as in having to flip Klay?

That’s the point? Or is there another issue with the OP?

Even if has to be built into something like Rui and Vincent for Gafford and Klay.. that gets Miami a semi-useful forward and a first round pick with no contracts beyond 2026?

[BBallFreak]

but don’t necessarily disagree with the larger point of Dallas having to do it. And would expect it to be pretty easy since Miami is willing to take on two year bad deals, just not 3

I think you're missing my point. It's not that Thompson and Beal are at all the same, it's that Dallas is trying to get Butler from us. They owe us the courtesy of a trade package we actually want. I'm suggesting that the package, as is, doesn't satisfy Miami.

“Having to do it” as in having to flip Klay?

That’s the point? Or is there another issue with the OP?

Even if has to be built into something like Rui and Vincent for Gafford and Klay.. that gets Miami a semi-useful forward and a first round pick with no contracts beyond 2026?

I'm failing to see the issue. What's wrong with wanting a trade package that fits our requirements, especially given that we're giving up the best player in the deal at a drastically discounted price? Is it unreasonable to ask that the package meets out rather meger requirements? That we don't have to flip pieces, hoping that we can get the two things we require - a useful player and not even expiring but short contracts?

[tester551]

Portland is not going into the lux tax for 2 seconds come on now.

Agreed. This is a huge problem with the proposed trade.

Except it's not true. Portland would still be ~$1.7M below the tax after the trade.

[BBallFreak]

I don't want to get into the specifics on any deal because they can all be argued, but do want to address that I think things with Butler are at a point where Miami is probably going to have to make some compromises in a trade. I think there are deals that make sense for them even if they come with money on the books 2 years from now. Miami is a master at cap manipulation so I don't have an MLE sized deal for instance standing in the way of a positive outcome from the saga.

On this board we are way too often willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And it makes discussions so difficult because we have so many posters so adamant their team will never accept X or less than Y or.... And then we see the Nets role players moved for 2nds. We see Deni traded for far less than the first overall pick plus. We see Dallas give up an unprotected swap to dump one MLE year of a player I was still championing lol.

Our teams often accept less than we think. Our teams often make moves we think they wouldn't. Again to be clear, I don't think Dallas is a Butler team and I am not telling anyone the Heat should take that specific offer in the OP. But I don't believe this public stance of what they want to be something to be used to kill all ideas either.

While I'm not arguing with your overall point, this trade isn't a compromise. It's literally nothing we need on the court and doesn't meet our contractual concerns. Aren't we entitled to SOMETHING that interests us?

[jayjaysee]

I think you're missing my point. It's not that Thompson and Beal are at all the same, it's that Dallas is trying to get Butler from us. They owe us the courtesy of a trade package we actually want. I'm suggesting that the package, as is, doesn't satisfy Miami.

“Having to do it” as in having to flip Klay?

That’s the point? Or is there another issue with the OP?

Even if has to be built into something like Rui and Vincent for Gafford and Klay.. that gets Miami a semi-useful forward and a first round pick with no contracts beyond 2026?

I'm failing to see the issue. What's wrong with wanting a trade package that fits our requirements, especially given that we're giving up the best player in the deal at a drastically discounted price? Is it unreasonable to ask that the package meets out rather meger requirements? That we don't have to flip pieces, hoping that we can get the two things we require - a useful player and not even expiring but short contracts?

What you quoted me saying was that I don’t disagree with your larger point……? and listing examples of how to move Klay as part of the OP.

[Texas Chuck]

While I'm not arguing with your overall point, this trade isn't a compromise. It's literally nothing we need on the court and doesn't meet our contractual concerns. Aren't we entitled to SOMETHING that interests us?

You should absolutely only accept deals here you like. I would take issue that Gafford, Marshall, and a first aren't SOMETHING. And heck for a team that would still be trying to win Kleber isn't nothing either. Nor is Klay.

But again, not trying to sell you on this deal. Just I think there is reasonable stuff in there. But I could be homering the Mavs stuff some for sure.

[BBallFreak]

“Having to do it” as in having to flip Klay?

That’s the point? Or is there another issue with the OP?

Even if has to be built into something like Rui and Vincent for Gafford and Klay.. that gets Miami a semi-useful forward and a first round pick with no contracts beyond 2026?

I'm failing to see the issue. What's wrong with wanting a trade package that fits our requirements, especially given that we're giving up the best player in the deal at a drastically discounted price? Is it unreasonable to ask that the package meets out rather meger requirements? That we don't have to flip pieces, hoping that we can get the two things we require - a useful player and not even expiring but short contracts?

What you quoted me saying was that I don’t disagree with your larger point……? and listing examples of how to move Klay as part of the OP.

Sorry if I misinterpreted. Been getting a lot of sarcasm and salt from all over the place.

[BBallFreak]

While I'm not arguing with your overall point, this trade isn't a compromise. It's literally nothing we need on the court and doesn't meet our contractual concerns. Aren't we entitled to SOMETHING that interests us?

You should absolutely only accept deals here you like. I would take issue that Gafford, Marshall, and a first aren't SOMETHING. And heck for a team that would still be trying to win Kleber isn't nothing either. Nor is Klay.

But again, not trying to sell you on this deal. Just I think there is reasonable stuff in there. But I could be homering the Mavs stuff some for sure.

No, you're not even homering. It's that Gafford, Marshall, and Thompson play the three positions we have absolutely no need for.

On the perimeter we have Herro, Jaquez, Robinson, Burks, and Highsmith, with Larsson developing. At center, we have Bam, Ware, and Love. We're on desperate need of a point guard and a 3&D power forward. I'm not sure where we'd play those Dallas guys!