Patrick Williams' Dunking Issues

[League Circles]

I'd have to hunt down that thread, but I'm pretty sure that the consensus on this board was to re-sign Pat.

As for Ball, ironically he was AK's best signing -- a rapidly improving player who was en route to being outright good, but the rest of the league hadn't quite figured that out yet. And then he became AK's worst signing. Well, that's not a GM's fault.

I've never been a fan of Pat, but I can't say that was AK's worst decision. I gotta go with the Vuc trade, even though I liked it at the time. What can I say? I was a dolt. But so was AK and unlike me, he was paid to make that call.

I definitely don't recall most people wanting to re-sign Patrick, at least not to a 5 year deal.

I think most people wanted to resign Pat, but weren't thrilled that we proactively made him an offer vs playing the market and were the only team in this cycle to go 5th year PO.

Yeah I was strongly in favor of a Mirotic/Jabari Parker type 1+1 deal at slightly over the MLE. I still think that's what we should have done.

[dougthonus]

I remember knowing it would be terrible, but still somehow being OK with it cause I was so happy that we technically sorta finally got our guy, our elusive "star FA".

I didn't hate it because the alternatives were largely worse and even though I knew it would be bad, I was happy it was short. I wanted us to just keep our money and not spend it, but I knew we wouldn't do that (and probably couldn't realistically do that with Butler on the roster without a revolt).

[dougthonus]

I definitely don't recall most people wanting to re-sign Patrick, at least not to a 5 year deal.

I think most people wanted to resign Pat, but weren't thrilled that we proactively made him an offer vs playing the market and were the only team in this cycle to go 5th year PO.

Yeah I was strongly in favor of a Mirotic/Jabari Parker type 1+1 deal at slightly over the MLE. I still think that's what we should have done.

Whether it was 1+1 or not, I'd have let him hit RFA and then played hard ball.

[kodo]

I'd have to hunt down that thread, but I'm pretty sure that the consensus on this board was to re-sign Pat.

As for Ball, ironically he was AK's best signing -- a rapidly improving player who was en route to being outright good, but the rest of the league hadn't quite figured that out yet. And then he became AK's worst signing. Well, that's not a GM's fault.

I've never been a fan of Pat, but I can't say that was AK's worst decision. I gotta go with the Vuc trade, even though I liked it at the time. What can I say? I was a dolt. But so was AK and unlike me, he was paid to make that call.

I definitely don't recall most people wanting to re-sign Patrick, at least not to a 5 year deal.

I think most people wanted to resign Pat, but weren't thrilled that we proactively made him an offer vs playing the market and were the only team in this cycle to go 5th year PO.

I was only happy in the sense that I thought AK was going to give him what he wanted, which Zach Lowe said was a "big, big number" he theorized was in the higher twenties per year (so let's say $27M). So there was probably some attempt at negotiation.

If his agent's job in leaking was to just set the expectation really high so they could meet at a number that's still an overpay for Pat, job well done.

[dougthonus]

I definitely don't recall most people wanting to re-sign Patrick, at least not to a 5 year deal.

I think most people wanted to resign Pat, but weren't thrilled that we proactively made him an offer vs playing the market and were the only team in this cycle to go 5th year PO.

I was only happy in the sense that I thought AK was going to give him what he wanted, which Zach Lowe said was a "big, big number" he theorized was in the higher twenties per year (so let's say $27M). So there was probably some attempt at negotiation.

If his agent's job in leaking was to just set the expectation really high so they could meet at a number that's still an overpay for Pat, job well done.

I didn't think much one way or the other of Pat's contract initially. I thought maybe a little high, but not too bad, with the biggest risk being health. After the market played out, I thought, yeah, we paid too much.

But that was why I said the process was poor to me. There didn't seem likely to be another bidder on Pat that was going to force us into a hard decision. Feel like if you had the same deal with TO instead of a PO at the end, that it'd probably have been okay, think you definitely could have gotten that if you waited out the market.

[Indomitable]

I think most people wanted to resign Pat, but weren't thrilled that we proactively made him an offer vs playing the market and were the only team in this cycle to go 5th year PO.

I was only happy in the sense that I thought AK was going to give him what he wanted, which Zach Lowe said was a "big, big number" he theorized was in the higher twenties per year (so let's say $27M). So there was probably some attempt at negotiation.

If his agent's job in leaking was to just set the expectation really high so they could meet at a number that's still an overpay for Pat, job well done.

I didn't think much one way or the other of Pat's contract initially. I thought maybe a little high, but not too bad, with the biggest risk being health. After the market played out, I thought, yeah, we paid too much.

But that was why I said the process was poor to me. There didn't seem likely to be another bidder on Pat that was going to force us into a hard decision. Feel like if you had the same deal with TO instead of a PO at the end, that it'd probably have been okay, think you definitely could have gotten that if you waited out the market.

AK sees something that is not there.

[GoBlue72391]

I was only happy in the sense that I thought AK was going to give him what he wanted, which Zach Lowe said was a "big, big number" he theorized was in the higher twenties per year (so let's say $27M). So there was probably some attempt at negotiation.

If his agent's job in leaking was to just set the expectation really high so they could meet at a number that's still an overpay for Pat, job well done.

I didn't think much one way or the other of Pat's contract initially. I thought maybe a little high, but not too bad, with the biggest risk being health. After the market played out, I thought, yeah, we paid too much.

But that was why I said the process was poor to me. There didn't seem likely to be another bidder on Pat that was going to force us into a hard decision. Feel like if you had the same deal with TO instead of a PO at the end, that it'd probably have been okay, think you definitely could have gotten that if you waited out the market.

AK sees something that is not there.

Yep. This is and always has been the issue. That and the doubling down on their mistakes.

Just horrible evaluators of talent.

[BullChit]

Pat is not the only reason that I have largely ceased to watch the Bulls, but he is the single largest reason.

Pat Williams - 13 points, 5.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, 53% TS%
Jalen Smith - 19 points, 13 rebounds per 36 minutes, 59% TS%

If the Bulls are playing to win, start Jalen. If they are playing to lose, move Zach and Vuc. But they haven't selected either path. They play Zach and Vuc because they still have them, and they start Pat on a forlorn mission of justifying their #4 selection from, I kid you not, summer 2020. That is a DEEPLY sunk cost.

Not Pat's fault, he's not the one who puts himself in the starting lineup. I have no problem with him, other than he's not a particularly good or memorable player. My problem is with the GM/coach, who treat me as if I'm a fool.

My biggest issue with any sports team I follow is when singular approach isn't taken. I stopped watching so many sports because of this very reason.

[HomoSapien]

Pat is not the only reason that I have largely ceased to watch the Bulls, but he is the single largest reason.

Pat Williams - 13 points, 5.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, 53% TS%
Jalen Smith - 19 points, 13 rebounds per 36 minutes, 59% TS%

If the Bulls are playing to win, start Jalen. If they are playing to lose, move Zach and Vuc. But they haven't selected either path. They play Zach and Vuc because they still have them, and they start Pat on a forlorn mission of justifying their #4 selection from, I kid you not, summer 2020. That is a DEEPLY sunk cost.

Not Pat's fault, he's not the one who puts himself in the starting lineup. I have no problem with him, other than he's not a particularly good or memorable player. My problem is with the GM/coach, who treat me as if I'm a fool.

Yeah. I understand playing Pat over guys like Javonte Green or Torey Craig, but Smith is both better and also still young. Even if we kept starting Pat, there's no reason we couldn't find a few more minutes for Smith when Williams was struggling.

If Smith was a starter he'd pretty easily be an 18 and 10 guy. He may not be as versatile as Pat on defense, but Pat's just not productive enough to justify the PT difference. Even Matas is more productive than him per 36.

[pipfan]

He flubbed another one spectacularly last night

I too think we should play Smith/Vuc 10 minutes together, to see what happens. Since PWill's D and 3 ball have fallen off, what does he offer? I still want us to run
Ayo/Lavine/Matas or Phillips/PWill/Vuc
Bench of Ball/White/Smith/Phillips or Matas

Spot minutes for THT and Terry

[Andi Obst]

Thread should be re-named to "Patrick Williams' Basketball Issues".

[coldfish]

Thread should be re-named to "Patrick Williams' Basketball Issues".

Yeah, if people think Patrick has problems dunking, they should check his shooting percentages from 3 feet out to the 3p line. Dude is making 27.6% of his shots from 3 to 10 feet. That's laughably bad.

[Indomitable]

WHERE IS THIS GUY?

[sco]

Thread should be re-named to "Patrick Williams' Basketball Issues".

Yeah, if people think Patrick has problems dunking, they should check his shooting percentages from 3 feet out to the 3p line. Dude is making 27.6% of his shots from 3 to 10 feet. That's laughably bad.

I do think that Patrick can get better on short shots and dunks, but I really think he should just take 3pt shots almost exclusively this season. He can focus on his close-in mechanics in the offseason. I've noted that I also watch the Knicks, and one think I've noticed is that OG, who dunks a lot, dunks almost exclusively with 2 hands. Maybe PWill has gained too much weight to do that, but that's another reason to wait.