2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[AleksandarN]

Jokic discovers a new signature shot. I kid but the guy is ridiculous

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[antonac]

Right now I'd have to agree it's SGA. His numbers are fantastic, his team record is crazy and he's played more games.

Being real, Jokic is such an entertaining and unique player, both in terms of style and personality he's easy to like but it's not just a popularity contest.

We've been spoiled with some MVPs recently, Curry and Jokic in particular, because they combined impact with pure entertainment, but the players that are a lot less entertaining to watch can deserve it too.

[jokeboy86]

The crazy thing is Shai will probably have to keep this up for the whole season because Jokic is so damn consistent but also it looks like the Nuggets might actually be getting better. They may be due for a good 15-20 game stretch that might make them jump up in the standings especially if Murray could ever consistently show up.

[WhatTheBuck]

Right now I'd have to agree it's SGA. His numbers are fantastic, his team record is crazy and he's played more games.

Being real, Jokic is such an entertaining and unique player, both in terms of style and personality he's easy to like but it's not just a popularity contest.

We've been spoiled with some MVPs recently, Curry and Jokic in particular, because they combined impact with pure entertainment, but the players that are a lot less entertaining to watch can deserve it too.

How about they combine offence and defense.

[Mrakar]

If Denver gets the 2 seed, SGA winning MVP will join the ranks of MVP robberies, especially after they get bounced in the playoffs this year.

Thats sadly not happening. Denver is not good enough to get to 2nd seed. You cant have Westbrook as 2nd best player and be #2 seed in 2025. For that to happen Murray has to wake up right now and im not sure if thats possible...

btw one more classic Jokic +/- game. The Nuggets were +33 with him on the floor, -14 with him off...

[QPR]

If Denver gets the 2 seed, SGA winning MVP will join the ranks of MVP robberies, especially after they get bounced in the playoffs this year.

Thats sadly not happening. Denver is not good enough to get to 2nd seed. You cant have Westbrook as 2nd best player and be #2 seed in 2025. For that to happen Murray has to wake up right now and im not sure if thats possible...

btw one more classic Jokic +/- game. The Nuggets were +33 with him on the floor, -14 with him off...

The 2-seed in the West is wide open, Denver has as good a shot as any if they're healthy. They're only three games back from Houston.

[Exp0sed]

If Denver gets the 2 seed, SGA winning MVP will join the ranks of MVP robberies, especially after they get bounced in the playoffs this year.

Thats sadly not happening. Denver is not good enough to get to 2nd seed. You cant have Westbrook as 2nd best player and be #2 seed in 2025. For that to happen Murray has to wake up right now and im not sure if thats possible...

btw one more classic Jokic +/- game. The Nuggets were +33 with him on the floor, -14 with him off...

we're not even halfway into the season, the 2nd seed is def still up for grabs, they're just a couple of games back from the Rockets and Grizz. Ja is pretty injury prone, the Rockets are deep but now without Jabari for a while, let's not act as if a starting five of: Sengun,Green,Amen,Brooks and FVV is on another tier than these Nuggets (they aren't)

Nuggets are getting good contributions from everyone not named Murray

[Johnny Firpo]

Right now I'd have to agree it's SGA. His numbers are fantastic, his team record is crazy and he's played more games.

Being real, Jokic is such an entertaining and unique player, both in terms of style and personality he's easy to like but it's not just a popularity contest.

We've been spoiled with some MVPs recently, Curry and Jokic in particular, because they combined impact with pure entertainment, but the players that are a lot less entertaining to watch can deserve it too.

How about they combine offence and defense.

This is such a dumb thing to say. This is not the "Best two-way player among the best players" award. Impact matters. SGA deserves it because his impact is also very high, not because he is a better two-way player.

[scrabbarista]

SGA has a great game, Joker comes out and has a better one.

4 steals too! That must mean he’s a great defender.

He's 6th in spg.

Maybe the 4 steals was him trying to be:

1st in ppg
2nd in apg
3rd in rpg
4th in spg

I'm jk, obviously.

I think.

He is also still 1st in 3P%, though.

[_NoMas]

Shai averaging 34-5-5 on 57/42/96, with really good defence, over his last 7 games against Memphis, T-Wolves, Clippers, KnicksX2, Cleveland and Boston. Definitely number 1 in the MVP race currently

[MoneyTalks41890]

Update to the composite score I do, which is an average of four advanced statistics graded on a scale - BPM, VORP, EPM and EPM Wins.



Garland is obviously the biggest surprise here. He has really good EPM numbers, but is much lower in other impact stats like LEBRON and DARKO. Has me thinking that I need to do a composite impact score that includes EPM, EPM Wins, LEBRON and LEBRON WAR

Either way you cut it, I think it's clear that this is a 2-man race for MVP, which is of no surprise to anyone on here.

Personally…for the sake of MVP, availability matters so I would use, LEBRON WAR and EPM wins and not the basic metrics. I think using BPM and VORP from Basketball Reference waters things down as they are not adjusted. Just box score derived. What are you trying to show by including those stats? Maybe there is a good reason that I am missing. If you wanted to use data like that maybe just use Win Shares.

Basically just picking stats that favor SGA.

You’re so close to getting it.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I love Jokic. But let’s not compare playing the two New York teams. About as different an experience as you can get in the league.

[Exp0sed]

Shai averaging 34-5-5 on 57/42/96, with really good defence, over his last 7 games against Memphis, T-Wolves, Clippers, KnicksX2, Cleveland and Boston. Definitely number 1 in the MVP race currently

it's been an amazing stretch vs. top level competition

here's the thing tho, 34-5-5 on awesome efficiency (and good defense) is great. idk what Jokic averaged in this stretch (and he missed a couple) but for argument's sake let's say he averaged 34\11\11 on great efficiency (and his defense has also been good in this stretch, unlike earlier in the season), I mean....that's hard to compete with

Jokic's rebounding numbers have actually taken a serious dive with WB in the lineup as Jokic is happy to box out and Russ is always hungry to gobble those up, but the Jokic defensive rebounding prowess means the Nuggets are always in the top 5 in rebounding (this year is no different). my point being, they're scoring the same volume on very similar efficiency (Jokic is t 64.5 TS%, SGA 63.8%)

does SGA "good defense" create more possesions (and points) for his team than 6 extra rebounds AND 6 extra assists per game? that's very hard to believe. Jokic has been better than SGA this season, I really don't see any serious argument for the contrary

SGA is ahead atm because the Thunder are 1st with a ridicilolus record and he has played in all games while the Joker has missed 5

if they both were at the same games played i'd give the nod to Jokic despite the lower seed, as it stands tho - SGA is still ahead in my book

[Ssj16]

If Denver gets the 2 seed, SGA winning MVP will join the ranks of MVP robberies, especially after they get bounced in the playoffs this year.

Thats sadly not happening. Denver is not good enough to get to 2nd seed. You cant have Westbrook as 2nd best player and be #2 seed in 2025. For that to happen Murray has to wake up right now and im not sure if thats possible...

btw one more classic Jokic +/- game. The Nuggets were +33 with him on the floor, -14 with him off...

And yet Westbrook keeps proving the doubters/haters wrong because he's finally in the perfect situation with the right coach.

[nomansland]

If Denver gets the 2 seed, SGA winning MVP will join the ranks of MVP robberies, especially after they get bounced in the playoffs this year.

Thats sadly not happening. Denver is not good enough to get to 2nd seed. You cant have Westbrook as 2nd best player and be #2 seed in 2025. For that to happen Murray has to wake up right now and im not sure if thats possible...

btw one more classic Jokic +/- game. The Nuggets were +33 with him on the floor, -14 with him off...

They're 1.5 games behind Memphis and 3 games behind Houston. Remaining SOS's in terms of difficulty: Memphis 2nd, Houston 4th, Denver 19th.

Westbrook is the 3rd or 4th best player (behind Porter and Gordon when he returns) and Murray is playing better. This stretch of Gordon being out has given a lot of confidence to Watson and Strawther and has given Malone confidence to play them.

I'm not saying it will happen, but to say it's not happening is kind of crazy.

[_NoMas]

Shai averaging 34-5-5 on 57/42/96, with really good defence, over his last 7 games against Memphis, T-Wolves, Clippers, KnicksX2, Cleveland and Boston. Definitely number 1 in the MVP race currently

it's been an amazing stretch vs. top level competition

here's the thing tho, 34-5-5 on awesome efficiency (and good defense) is great. idk what Jokic averaged in this stretch (and he missed a couple) but for argument's sake let's say he averaged 34\11\11 on great efficiency (and his defense has also been good in this stretch, unlike earlier in the season), I mean....that's hard to compete with

Jokic's rebounding numbers have actually taken a serious dive with WB in the lineup as Jokic is happy to box out and Russ is always hungry to gobble those up, but the Jokic defensive rebounding prowess means the Nuggets are always in the top 5 in rebounding (this year is no different). my point being, they're scoring the same volume on very similar efficiency (Jokic is t 64.5 TS%, SGA 63.8%)

does SGA "good defense" create more possesions (and points) for his team than 6 extra rebounds AND 6 extra assists per game? that's very hard to believe. Jokic has been better than SGA this season, I really don't see any serious argument for the contrary

SGA is ahead atm because the Thunder are 1st with a ridicilolus record and he has played in all games while the Joker has missed 5

if they both were at the same games played i'd give the nod to Jokic despite the lower seed, as it stands tho - SGA is still ahead in my book

I think team record is what’s going to be the decider. Also the quality of wins in the last 10 just isn’t a comparison. Denver’s last 10 games they have wins against Brooklyn, Clippers, Spurs, Hawks, Utah, Detroit…

[Wolfgang630]

I hope Jokic doesn’t lose. It’ll probably be extremely close.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Right now the Thunder are on pace for 68 or 69 wins. The Nuggets are on pace for 48 or 49 wins. If that holds, it really shouldn’t be close for MVP.

[nomansland]

Right now the Thunder are on pace for 68 or 69 wins. The Nuggets are on pace for 48 or 49 wins. If that holds, it really shouldn’t be close for MVP.

The gap won't be that big, but if it is, or if it's close to that, sure, give it to SGA.

[Jurassic_Park]

SGA pulling away on the odds. Now -200 to win mvp across all the books. Still a long season left.