What if the Bulls just went for it?

[GoBlue72391]

It's possible that despite this, there simply isn't a market for any of them due to their salaries. You don't see Vuc or Lonzo's names come up in rumors either even though we are clearly actively shopping both. Though I agree I certainly wouldn't look to be a buyer, there needs to be a buyer for us to be a seller. I hope we can find a good move, but I just don't see any moves reported in such a way that it feels like we're hopelessly hanging on and ignoring value to keep guys together.

That's so funny because the one thing I remember reading over and over from multiple people on multiple websites at the time Vuc signed that contract was that it's "easily moveable." He's playing the best he ever has in his life and yet his contract is still such a hinderance.

I saw the same assurances uttered just as frequently when Pat signed his "easily moveable" contract as well.

As for Lonzo, it's great that he's even playing at all, but I'm not sure he has any trade value. He's still injury prone, can't play big minutes, and when you take the emotion out of the equation his scoring/shooting numbers are pretty terrible. Having said that, he does have a noticeable impact on the game regardless of the numbers due to his defense and playmaking. I just can't see a team trading much at all for him, even as an expiring contract. Maybe like a 2nd rounder and a useless salary filler player.

Is it? Most of the rumor mill reporting this year has said Vooch is more likely to get moved than Zach b/c Vooch's contract is manageable.

IMO, the problem before this year was Vooch was playing poorly, and he's more moveable now because he's playing well. It's that simple.

More likely to be moved doesn't mean moved for anything of value. I'm sure we could dump Vuc for trash, but I think the goal is to come out on top or even break even in a trade given his all-star caliber play this season.

Rumors are just rumors until something happens. If Vuc was a passable defender I think it would make things easier, but an aging player with a big contract, terrible defense at the most important defensive position, and likely unsustainable efficiency is a lot to ask for most teams.

[dougthonus]

Is it? Most of the rumor mill reporting this year has said Vooch is more likely to get moved than Zach b/c Vooch's contract is manageable.

IMO, the problem before this year was Vooch was playing poorly, and he's more moveable now because he's playing well. It's that simple.

Vuc has had one of the weirdest two year runs you can imagine:
Last year - By far the worst year of his career at age of 34 - absolute albatross
This year - Top 2-3 season of his career at age of 35 - great deal

Like literally, Vuc should _easily_ win most improved player. He won't because people don't vote on the award that way, but the gap between last year and this year for him is insane.

I think there is some market for Vuc, the problem, fundamentally, is the age, history, and role. Probably no team trusts him to do this again next year given last year, and also most teams looking to add at the deadline probably need low volume two way players a lot more than high volume offensive players. They have their offenses figured out already.

[dougthonus]

More likely to be moved doesn't mean moved for anything of value. I'm sure we could dump Vuc for trash, but I think the goal is to come out on top or even break even in a trade given his all-star caliber play this season.

Rumors are just rumors until something happens. If Vuc was a passable defender I think it would make things easier, but an aging player with a big contract, terrible defense at the most important defensive position, and likely unsustainable efficiency is a lot to ask for most teams.

I agree with everything you are saying, but to your point about his contract is moveable, well it does seem moveable for financial savings now if we want. That's different from moveable and get something really good back. I don't think anyone ever expected we'd sign Vuc and trade him for a 1st round pick later.

[RastaBull]

Tiers for playoff as I see it .. specifically in relation to the Bulls

Tier 1: Celts + Cavs
Clear ECF favorites; Head and Shoulders about Bulls. The Bulls guaranteed to lose against them in any round they'd face them unless several innjuries.

Tier 2: Milwaukee + Philly
If Giannis and Lillard are healthy in playoffs, they could beat any team, especially the Bulls. If Embiid and George are healthy, same. Playoff experience, generational talent and second stars. But also dysfunction in regular season, and an injury to any of their top 3 players on either team and they can be beaten in 7 game series. Would not want to face them in first round, but if Bulls made it to second round it would signal some momentum and a single injury we could get series win.

Tier 3(a): Knicks
Clearly better team than Bulls, but not a guarantee for playoff success. No depth which will make rest of season grueling given rough schedule. Any injury to starting 5 could really hurt. Thibs may drain his stars with his minutes. So I'd actually enjoy a first or second round match up in playoffs, even though Knicks would clearly be favored.

Tier 3(b): Magic
Clearly better team than Bulls. But I just don't trust them to be THAT good. They still don't have much playoff experience. I think several of their stars can get sloppy/cold just like that can get hot. Again, I think Bulls could "go for it" and beat them in a 7-game series.

Tier 4: Rest of Eastern Conference
Bulls are either better or on par with them. Miami without Butler, Bulls SHOULD win imo. Pacers I think would be a pretty even matchup. Bulls SHOULD beat Atlanta, I think we are better coached.


So with that in mind, I hope they keep playing better and better, and take advantage of their seemingly weak schedule. Get out of the play-in and secure playoff seed. That in itself avoids Tier 1 (Celts and Cavs) in first round. Given Bucks and Philly in-season disfunction, you could avoid them too. We are 4 game out of the 5th seed right now. If the Bulls goth the 5th seed, and win first round, that'd be worth it imo.

Once you are in the playoffs, other teams beat eachother up and you never know. I don't think the Bulls should go wheeling and dealing to improve, just roll with what they have. OF COURSE if they can get some 1st round capital for guys then they need to make the right trades even if it forgoes race for playoffs. BUT NO WAY should they sell Vuc at this level for 2nds, or Zach at this level for expensive contracts with less success/potential.

Lonzo is interesting; playoff teams will absolutely want him because how much impact he can have with even limited minutes, and it is almost benefit that he's a rental, but I can't see anyone giving a late 1st for that. They'd happily sell a 2nd or maybe two I'd bet. And at that point, I would likely agree it was mistake to not trade Drummond for 2nd rounders, and the same would be for Lonzo. The only different scenario would be if Bulls ride a streak and get 5 or so games above .500 ... then I'd say ride it out with Lonzo and see what they can do in playoffs.

[NecessaryEvil]

I’m not with it but if we were to, go and make this happen

Read on Twitter

[Nate3carp]

I’m not with it but if we were to, go and make this happen

Read on Twitter

Zion was my thought too if we were going to “go for it”. Pat/Buzelis/Giddey/Port pick/27 pick/29 pick

Vuc / Smith
Zion / Craig
Lonzo / Phillips
Zach / THT / Dalen
Coby / Ayo

I think it is a super fun team, but sells too much of the future for bad injury history Zion.

[GoBlue72391]

I’m not with it but if we were to, go and make this happen

Read on Twitter

Holy crap

[WindyCityBorn]

Go for what? A 1st round loss. No way in Hell would I trade for Butler btw.

Always loved Jimmy, not happening but wouldn’t say no to him returning to the Bulls.

Other than nostalgia why would you want Butler? Dude is old and declining and we are trying to retool younger.

[Dez]

I’m not with it but if we were to, go and make this happen

Read on Twitter

Zion was my thought too if we were going to “go for it”. Pat/Buzelis/Giddey/Port pick/27 pick/29 pick

Vuc / Smith
Zion / Craig
Lonzo / Phillips
Zach / THT / Dalen
Coby / Ayo

I think it is a super fun team, but sells too much of the future for bad injury history Zion.

The idea of getting Zion would be a buy low candidate not sell everything not nailed down.

[RSP83]

Bulls and AK can decided whatever they want to go for if they can go 7-0 in the next winnable 7 games.

[sco]

I’m not with it but if we were to, go and make this happen

Read on Twitter

Zion was my thought too if we were going to “go for it”. Pat/Buzelis/Giddey/Port pick/27 pick/29 pick

Vuc / Smith
Zion / Craig
Lonzo / Phillips
Zach / THT / Dalen
Coby / Ayo

I think it is a super fun team, but sells too much of the future for bad injury history Zion.

The idea of getting Zion would be a buy low candidate not sell everything not nailed down.

So what's a "good deal" for Zion? I think it involves Pat/Coby for sure, the POR pick is a no-brainer, beyond that, I start wondering. Vuc and Ball would be fine, but cost a lot. If we trade Giddey in the deal, I'd be ok, but we'd need to keep Ball then and that would have us starting Lavine, Ball and Zion...that feels fun, but super risky. Trading 1sts, given Zion's injury history, feels risky that they may end up being great picks.

[jnrjr79]

Zion was my thought too if we were going to “go for it”. Pat/Buzelis/Giddey/Port pick/27 pick/29 pick

Vuc / Smith
Zion / Craig
Lonzo / Phillips
Zach / THT / Dalen
Coby / Ayo

I think it is a super fun team, but sells too much of the future for bad injury history Zion.

The idea of getting Zion would be a buy low candidate not sell everything not nailed down.

So what's a "good deal" for Zion? I think it involves Pat/Coby for sure, the POR pick is a no-brainer, beyond that, I start wondering. Vuc and Ball would be fine, but cost a lot. If we trade Giddey in the deal, I'd be ok, but we'd need to keep Ball then and that would have us starting Lavine, Ball and Zion...that feels fun, but super risky. Trading 1sts, given Zion's injury history, feels risky that they may end up being great picks.

As a starting point, since they already own their own first and have tanked (unintentionally) so hard, I assume they prefer deals for players who aren’t going to screw up the tank and draft capital. So I think Pat and Coby achieve that. For Lonzo, maybe they’d take him and just buy him out for salary relief next year. I’d be worried he’d help him too much on the court. Giddey could work, too, I suppose in that he’s “good” but not developed enough now that he’s going to win you a bunch of games.

[NecessaryEvil]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

[waffle]

the weird thing is how packed the standings are. If we had a hot streak, even a short one, we could be in the top 5 or 6. That's just nuts....Which kind of suggests maybe we should be looking to add???? Maybe? I dunno?

I said this before, the way we play, relying so much on the 3, is actually very very dangerous. If we hit our 3's or the other team just can't keep up with us we can beat almost anyone. But if we aren't hitting em or we just decide to take the night off (happens way to often) we will surely lose

[Dan Z]

the weird thing is how packed the standings are. If we had a hot streak, even a short one, we could be in the top 5 or 6. That's just nuts....Which kind of suggests maybe we should be looking to add???? Maybe? I dunno?

I said this before, the way we play, relying so much on the 3, is actually very very dangerous. If we hit our 3's or the other team just can't keep up with us we can beat almost anyone. But if we aren't hitting em or we just decide to take the night off (happens way to often) we will surely lose

I think the standings are fool's gold. A few weeks ago another poster (I forget who) also said the Bulls could climb in the standings. At that time the Bulls were in 9th and now they're in 10th. I'm not saying they can't climb, but realistically how much will they? And where will it ultimately lead to? A first round exit at best?

[Dan Z]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

Get Zion with what assets? Are you suggesting that Vucevic, Giddey and Coby get it done?

[jnrjr79]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

Get Zion with what assets? Are you suggesting that Vucevic, Giddey and Coby get it done?

Zion’s contract is basically non-guaranteed. There have been rumblings that New Orleans may conclude that it would be better off simply cutting him to free up cap space, given Zion’s health and disciplinary issues. In that scenario, they may be thinking “would we rather have this trade or rather simply shed the contract,” so that may be the bar you have to clear unless there’s a bigger market for Zion.

[waffle]

the weird thing is how packed the standings are. If we had a hot streak, even a short one, we could be in the top 5 or 6. That's just nuts....Which kind of suggests maybe we should be looking to add???? Maybe? I dunno?

I said this before, the way we play, relying so much on the 3, is actually very very dangerous. If we hit our 3's or the other team just can't keep up with us we can beat almost anyone. But if we aren't hitting em or we just decide to take the night off (happens way to often) we will surely lose

I think the standings are fool's gold. A few weeks ago another poster (I forget who) also said the Bulls could climb in the standings. At that time the Bulls were in 9th and now they're in 10th. I'm not saying they can't climb, but realistically how much will they? And where will it ultimately lead to? A first round exit at best?

Well...I stand by my points but agree that it sure doesn't seem LIKELY

[Dan Z]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

Get Zion with what assets? Are you suggesting that Vucevic, Giddey and Coby get it done?

Zion’s contract is basically non-guaranteed. There have been rumblings that New Orleans may conclude that it would be better off simply cutting him to free up cap space, given Zion’s health and disciplinary issues. In that scenario, they may be thinking “would we rather have this trade or rather simply shed the contract,” so that may be the bar you have to clear unless there’s a bigger market for Zion.

That depends on what his value is around the league. My guess is they can do better than Vucevic, Giddey and Coby. Out of the three of them Coby is the only one they might want (They already have Murray at PG).

[Stratmaster]

the weird thing is how packed the standings are. If we had a hot streak, even a short one, we could be in the top 5 or 6. That's just nuts....Which kind of suggests maybe we should be looking to add???? Maybe? I dunno?

I said this before, the way we play, relying so much on the 3, is actually very very dangerous. If we hit our 3's or the other team just can't keep up with us we can beat almost anyone. But if we aren't hitting em or we just decide to take the night off (happens way to often) we will surely lose

I think the standings are fool's gold. A few weeks ago another poster (I forget who) also said the Bulls could climb in the standings. At that time the Bulls were in 9th and now they're in 10th. I'm not saying they can't climb, but realistically how much will they? And where will it ultimately lead to? A first round exit at best?

They are also 3 games out of the 4 seed, despite their head coach blowing 2 of their recent games. Without that they would be 7-3 in their last 10 games.

They fell 1 spot in the standings but are actually closer to the 4 seed now than they were then. They have played the worst part of their schedule already and there is still more than half a season left.

The Bulls could certainly end up anywhere from 4th place to 11th place. Without a trade or a major injury it is more likely they move up in the standings than down