What if the Bulls just went for it?

[Dan Z]

the weird thing is how packed the standings are. If we had a hot streak, even a short one, we could be in the top 5 or 6. That's just nuts....Which kind of suggests maybe we should be looking to add???? Maybe? I dunno?

I said this before, the way we play, relying so much on the 3, is actually very very dangerous. If we hit our 3's or the other team just can't keep up with us we can beat almost anyone. But if we aren't hitting em or we just decide to take the night off (happens way to often) we will surely lose

I think the standings are fool's gold. A few weeks ago another poster (I forget who) also said the Bulls could climb in the standings. At that time the Bulls were in 9th and now they're in 10th. I'm not saying they can't climb, but realistically how much will they? And where will it ultimately lead to? A first round exit at best?

They are also 3 games out of the 4 seed, despite their head coach blowing 2 of their recent games. Without that they would be 7-3 in their last 10 games.

They fell 1 spot in the standings but are actually closer to the 4 seed now than they were then. They have played the worst part of their schedule already and there is still more than half a season left.

The Bulls could certainly end up anywhere from 4th place to 11th place. Without a trade or a major injury it is more likely they move up in the standings than down

In the last 10 games this is what these teams have done:
Bucks 6-4
Magic 4-6
Pacers 7-3
Heat 6-4
Detroit 8-2
Hawks 5-5

The Sixers are right behind the Bulls and have been 6-4 in the last ten.

You can say the coach cost the Bulls two wins and I bet a fan of the teams above could say they'd have more wins if X, Y or Z happened.

The standings are what they are. Some teams might drop a bit, but others will continuing where they are. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls climb a bit, but I doubt it'd be more than a few spots at most (definitely not 4th).

If Bulls make a move to try and push for as many wins as possible where will that ultimately lead to? Obviously it depends on the move, but 7th place? A first round exit?

[Stratmaster]

I think the standings are fool's gold. A few weeks ago another poster (I forget who) also said the Bulls could climb in the standings. At that time the Bulls were in 9th and now they're in 10th. I'm not saying they can't climb, but realistically how much will they? And where will it ultimately lead to? A first round exit at best?

They are also 3 games out of the 4 seed, despite their head coach blowing 2 of their recent games. Without that they would be 7-3 in their last 10 games.

They fell 1 spot in the standings but are actually closer to the 4 seed now than they were then. They have played the worst part of their schedule already and there is still more than half a season left.

The Bulls could certainly end up anywhere from 4th place to 11th place. Without a trade or a major injury it is more likely they move up in the standings than down

In the last 10 games this is what these teams have done:
Bucks 6-4
Magic 4-6
Pacers 7-3
Heat 6-4
Detroit 8-2
Hawks 5-5

The Sixers are right behind the Bulls and have been 6-4 in the last ten.

You can say the coach cost the Bulls two wins and I bet a fan of the teams above could say they'd have more wins if X, Y or Z happened.

The standings are what they are. Some teams might drop a bit, but others will continuing where they are. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls climb a bit, but I doubt it'd be more than a few spots at most (definitely not 4th).

If Bulls make a move to try and push for as many wins as possible where will that ultimately lead to? Obviously it depends on the move, but 7th place? A first round exit?

What will it lead to if they finish 11th?

[cocktailswith_2short]

If there ever was a year to go for it this be it . The east is just a muddled mess . The right trade could very well propel us to home court advantage . It's unlikely to happen .

[Dan Z]

They are also 3 games out of the 4 seed, despite their head coach blowing 2 of their recent games. Without that they would be 7-3 in their last 10 games.

They fell 1 spot in the standings but are actually closer to the 4 seed now than they were then. They have played the worst part of their schedule already and there is still more than half a season left.

The Bulls could certainly end up anywhere from 4th place to 11th place. Without a trade or a major injury it is more likely they move up in the standings than down

In the last 10 games this is what these teams have done:
Bucks 6-4
Magic 4-6
Pacers 7-3
Heat 6-4
Detroit 8-2
Hawks 5-5

The Sixers are right behind the Bulls and have been 6-4 in the last ten.

You can say the coach cost the Bulls two wins and I bet a fan of the teams above could say they'd have more wins if X, Y or Z happened.

The standings are what they are. Some teams might drop a bit, but others will continuing where they are. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls climb a bit, but I doubt it'd be more than a few spots at most (definitely not 4th).

If Bulls make a move to try and push for as many wins as possible where will that ultimately lead to? Obviously it depends on the move, but 7th place? A first round exit?

What will it lead to if they finish 11th?

You didnt answer my question, but ok I'll answer yours first.

The Bulls currently dont have a star player worth building around and that's what they should try to get. I don't see many options in free agency or a trade, so that leaves the draft. An 11th place finish means they keep their 2025 pick (although I'd prefer if it was a higher pick).

The Bulls are currently on a 39 win pace. Last year they won 39 games. The year before that it was 40. At what point is the direction of this team not working?

[greenwing]

If there ever was a year to go for it this be it . The east is just a muddled mess . The right trade could very well propel us to home court advantage . It's unlikely to happen .

This is how I feel. We have an average team that’s missing just one big piece to be above average in a parity conference. The chances of us swinging a trade to get a legitimate upgrade at the 4 are low and it’s unlikely anything will transpire. But if the Bulls somehow swing a Zion-like trade while keeping Lavine and Vuc they’d have a puncher’s chance this year.

[Stratmaster]

In the last 10 games this is what these teams have done:
Bucks 6-4
Magic 4-6
Pacers 7-3
Heat 6-4
Detroit 8-2
Hawks 5-5

The Sixers are right behind the Bulls and have been 6-4 in the last ten.

You can say the coach cost the Bulls two wins and I bet a fan of the teams above could say they'd have more wins if X, Y or Z happened.

The standings are what they are. Some teams might drop a bit, but others will continuing where they are. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls climb a bit, but I doubt it'd be more than a few spots at most (definitely not 4th).

If Bulls make a move to try and push for as many wins as possible where will that ultimately lead to? Obviously it depends on the move, but 7th place? A first round exit?

What will it lead to if they finish 11th?

You didnt answer my question, but ok I'll answer yours first.

The Bulls currently dont have a star player worth building around and that's what they should try to get. I don't see many options in free agency or a trade, so that leaves the draft. An 11th place finish means they keep their 2025 pick (although I'd prefer if it was a higher pick).

The Bulls are currently on a 39 win pace. Last year they won 39 games. The year before that it was 40. At what point is the direction of this team not working?

If the Bulls are still on a 39 win pace as the trade deadline approaches they should trade everyone except Lavine, Smith, Matas... and maybe Ball if he has insinuated he will sign a team friendly deal. So we might agree somewhat there. They have 14 games between now and then. If they aren't over .500 after the next 10 games start selling.

If the Bulls finish 11th they have a 9% chance of getting a top 4 pick. There is probably about a 10% chance that top 4 pick becomes a star player they can build around.

Much more likely (91%) they pick 11th or later. A guy who will most likely be a quality bench player. A Coby or, worse yet, another Pat. Shedding talent to hope for luck is a horrible approach. Standing Pat and shedding talent to tank to the 11th spot aren't the only options. To say you don't see options for a trade... of course not. How could you or I see that? There will be trade options at the deadline and after the season.

A new head coach would be a great start. The Bulls aren't going to get over the hump with Billy at the helm.

[ImSlower]

Much more likely (91%) they pick 11th or later. A guy who will most likely be a quality bench player. A Coby or, worse yet, another Pat. Shedding talent to hope for luck is a horrible approach. Standing Pat and shedding talent to tank to the 11th spot aren't the only options. To say you don't see options for a trade... of course not. How could you or I see that? There will be trade options at the deadline and after the season.

A new head coach would be a great start. The Bulls aren't going to get over the hump with Billy at the helm.

What about Sitting Pat? Can that please be an option?

[Dan Z]

What will it lead to if they finish 11th?

You didnt answer my question, but ok I'll answer yours first.

The Bulls currently dont have a star player worth building around and that's what they should try to get. I don't see many options in free agency or a trade, so that leaves the draft. An 11th place finish means they keep their 2025 pick (although I'd prefer if it was a higher pick).

The Bulls are currently on a 39 win pace. Last year they won 39 games. The year before that it was 40. At what point is the direction of this team not working?

If the Bulls are still on a 39 win pace as the trade deadline approaches they should trade everyone except Lavine, Smith, Matas... and maybe Ball if he has insinuated he will sign a team friendly deal. So we might agree somewhat there. They have 14 games between now and then. If they aren't over .500 after the next 10 games start selling.

If the Bulls finish 11th they have a 9% chance of getting a top 4 pick. There is probably about a 10% chance that top 4 pick becomes a star player they can build around.

Much more likely (91%) they pick 11th or later. A guy who will most likely be a quality bench player. A Coby or, worse yet, another Pat. Shedding talent to hope for luck is a horrible approach. Standing Pat and shedding talent to tank to the 11th spot aren't the only options. To say you don't see options for a trade... of course not. How could you or I see that? There will be trade options at the deadline and after the season.

A new head coach would be a great start. The Bulls aren't going to get over the hump with Billy at the helm.

They should've traded the vets a long time ago and looked at this season as one for player development and keeping the 2025 pick.

You still haven't answered my question: If they go all-in how far do you think they'll go?

I don't think there's a trade that will suddenly change this team. Zion has been mentioned...what do the Bulls have to offer for him? Pat, Coby and someone else? I don't see how that would appeal to New Orleans and they'd probably want picks (which I don't think the Bulls should give up).

Anyone else?

[Stratmaster]

You didnt answer my question, but ok I'll answer yours first.

The Bulls currently dont have a star player worth building around and that's what they should try to get. I don't see many options in free agency or a trade, so that leaves the draft. An 11th place finish means they keep their 2025 pick (although I'd prefer if it was a higher pick).

The Bulls are currently on a 39 win pace. Last year they won 39 games. The year before that it was 40. At what point is the direction of this team not working?

If the Bulls are still on a 39 win pace as the trade deadline approaches they should trade everyone except Lavine, Smith, Matas... and maybe Ball if he has insinuated he will sign a team friendly deal. So we might agree somewhat there. They have 14 games between now and then. If they aren't over .500 after the next 10 games start selling.

If the Bulls finish 11th they have a 9% chance of getting a top 4 pick. There is probably about a 10% chance that top 4 pick becomes a star player they can build around.

Much more likely (91%) they pick 11th or later. A guy who will most likely be a quality bench player. A Coby or, worse yet, another Pat. Shedding talent to hope for luck is a horrible approach. Standing Pat and shedding talent to tank to the 11th spot aren't the only options. To say you don't see options for a trade... of course not. How could you or I see that? There will be trade options at the deadline and after the season.

A new head coach would be a great start. The Bulls aren't going to get over the hump with Billy at the helm.

They should've traded the vets a long time ago and looked at this season as one for player development and keeping the 2025 pick.

You still haven't answered my question: If they go all-in how far do you think they'll go?

I don't think there's a trade that will suddenly change this team. Zion has been mentioned...what do the Bulls have to offer for him? Pat, Coby and someone else? I don't see how that would appeal to New Orleans and they'd probably want picks (which I don't think the Bulls should give up).

Anyone else?

The Bulls should have traded Demar a year earlier. They should have traded Williams long before that. They should have traded Coby last season at this time. Probably Vuc too but they would have been selling low. Are those the vets you are talking about?

What players were you wanting them to develop? Matas can't play all 5 positions.

If they go for it how far will they go this season? Depends on how much they could climb in the standings. If they are 7-10 in the standings they aren't getting out of the first round and it won't be pretty. If they can get the 6 seed still likely a first round exit but likely also an entertaining series. If they can get the 4 or 5 seed it is very possible they could get to the 2nd round. But none of that is the point. Getting incrementally better by improving at the 4 (and it doesn't have to be an all-star) is a step toward becoming a contender.

[Dan Z]

If the Bulls are still on a 39 win pace as the trade deadline approaches they should trade everyone except Lavine, Smith, Matas... and maybe Ball if he has insinuated he will sign a team friendly deal. So we might agree somewhat there. They have 14 games between now and then. If they aren't over .500 after the next 10 games start selling.

If the Bulls finish 11th they have a 9% chance of getting a top 4 pick. There is probably about a 10% chance that top 4 pick becomes a star player they can build around.

Much more likely (91%) they pick 11th or later. A guy who will most likely be a quality bench player. A Coby or, worse yet, another Pat. Shedding talent to hope for luck is a horrible approach. Standing Pat and shedding talent to tank to the 11th spot aren't the only options. To say you don't see options for a trade... of course not. How could you or I see that? There will be trade options at the deadline and after the season.

A new head coach would be a great start. The Bulls aren't going to get over the hump with Billy at the helm.

They should've traded the vets a long time ago and looked at this season as one for player development and keeping the 2025 pick.

You still haven't answered my question: If they go all-in how far do you think they'll go?

I don't think there's a trade that will suddenly change this team. Zion has been mentioned...what do the Bulls have to offer for him? Pat, Coby and someone else? I don't see how that would appeal to New Orleans and they'd probably want picks (which I don't think the Bulls should give up).

Anyone else?

The Bulls should have traded Demar a year earlier. They should have traded Williams long before that. They should have traded Coby last season at this time. Probably Vuc too but they would have been selling low. Are those the vets you are talking about?

What players were you wanting them to develop? Matas can't play all 5 positions.

If they go for it how far will they go this season? Depends on how much they could climb in the standings. If they are 7-10 in the standings they aren't getting out of the first round and it won't be pretty. If they can get the 6 seed still likely a first round exit but likely also an entertaining series. If they can get the 4 or 5 seed it is very possible they could get to the 2nd round. But none of that is the point. Getting incrementally better by improving at the 4 (and it doesn't have to be an all-star) is a step toward becoming a contender.

Is there a PF that you have in mind? I'm not sure if the Bulls have what it takes to get Zion (if he were to become available).

I think that if they traded DDR, Vucevic, etc...then they'd get assets back and can work with that (which also means young players to develop).

I don't think the core of DDR/Zach/Vucevic has been working (record shows that it hasn't) and moving on from DDR isn't enough. They still need to find a player worth building around.

I could see AKME looking to be buyers at the trade deadline, not finding anything that they like, and just continuing forward with the team as is.

[Stratmaster]

They should've traded the vets a long time ago and looked at this season as one for player development and keeping the 2025 pick.

You still haven't answered my question: If they go all-in how far do you think they'll go?

I don't think there's a trade that will suddenly change this team. Zion has been mentioned...what do the Bulls have to offer for him? Pat, Coby and someone else? I don't see how that would appeal to New Orleans and they'd probably want picks (which I don't think the Bulls should give up).

Anyone else?

The Bulls should have traded Demar a year earlier. They should have traded Williams long before that. They should have traded Coby last season at this time. Probably Vuc too but they would have been selling low. Are those the vets you are talking about?

What players were you wanting them to develop? Matas can't play all 5 positions.

If they go for it how far will they go this season? Depends on how much they could climb in the standings. If they are 7-10 in the standings they aren't getting out of the first round and it won't be pretty. If they can get the 6 seed still likely a first round exit but likely also an entertaining series. If they can get the 4 or 5 seed it is very possible they could get to the 2nd round. But none of that is the point. Getting incrementally better by improving at the 4 (and it doesn't have to be an all-star) is a step toward becoming a contender.

Is there a PF that you have in mind? I'm not sure if the Bulls have what it takes to get Zion (if he were to become available).

I think that if they traded DDR, Vucevic, etc...then they'd get assets back and can work with that (which also means young players to develop).

I don't think the core of DDR/Zach/Vucevic has been working (record shows that it hasn't) and moving on from DDR isn't enough. They still need to find a player worth building around.

I could see AKME looking to be buyers at the trade deadline, not finding anything that they like, and just continuing forward with the team as is.

Nope. That's the front office's job. I have no way of knowing who might be available, when, and for what. I mean... Any starting level PF not named Patrick Williams would do the trick.

[waffle]

I've heard this matas guy is decent

[NecessaryEvil]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

EDIT

I ment to say (trade) Vooch, Giddey, Coby and Patrick.

[DuckIII]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

EDIT

I ment to say (trade) Vooch, Giddey, Coby and Patrick.

I'm opposed to "going for it" because the "it" still won't mean anything. There's almost no move we can make with our personnel and garbage draft assets (which get even garbagier in the process of making such a trade which devalues them even more) that could give us a puncher's chance in the East. People keep talking about climbing to 5th in the East or whatever. Even if we could make a trade to gain that kind of ground against teams like Orlando and Milwaukee, which I doubt, that still doesn't make us contenders because the East is a joke. We would simply have risen above all of the other teams in the East who have no meaningful chance to make any kind of noise in the playoffs. 5 game second round exit? No sustainable future because we'd have to trade more draft picks to even make that kind of splash to begin with? Not interested in being the fastest turtle.

That said, the ONLY trade where I could see the Bulls getting a legit franchise type of talent that could make us relevant would be trading for Zion. I don't think his cost would be that high and, as a result, I don't think we'd get smoked in a bidding war (which will happen for any other star other teams would be interested in because we are so asset poor).

But the only reason that would be so is because Zion got drafted in 2019, its 2025, and he's played a total of 191 games. Out of a possible 451. Unless he miraculously stays consistently healthy for many years to come it would further destroy the future of a franchise whose FO has already taken steps to ruin it for a decade. It would be devastating.

And that's the type of choice AK's incompetence has left for us. I'd still pass. But if you are going to try to contend immediately, this awful option would be one of the only ones available. And I would support it over lots of other things that have been discussed despite the very high likelihood that it fails.

Selling off vets, getting worse, and rebuilding our assets remains the safest and wisest choice to build a sustainable contender and getting this franchise back in a position to be nimble and smart, instead of desperate, with its moves.

[DuckIII]

If there ever was a year to go for it this be it . The east is just a muddled mess . The right trade could very well propel us to home court advantage . It's unlikely to happen .

The East is only a muddled mess down in the massive 10 team gutter. The top 5 teams all look pretty stable at this point and several are legitimate title contenders so you're gonna need to elaborate on this quite a bit to convince me this is a GOOD time to go all in.

[jnrjr79]

I’ve seen enough

Go after Zion and partner him with Zach

You certainly build around that.

Keep Jalen Smith, Dosunmu, Ball & Matas

(Trade) Vooch, Giddey & Coby for as much capital and talent as possible.

EDIT

I ment to say (trade) Vooch, Giddey, Coby and Patrick.

But the only reason that would be so is because Zion got drafted in 2019, its 2025, and he's played a total of 191 games. Out of a possible 451. Unless he miraculously stays consistently healthy for many years to come it would further destroy the future of a franchise whose FO has already taken steps to ruin it for a decade. It would be devastating.

FWIW, this isn’t fully accurate. Zion’s contract contains outs every year depending on his health/games played. This is the only reason I’m open to a Zion trade. If he’s perennially unavailable, you just nix the contract and free up a bunch of cap space.

[DuckIII]

EDIT

I ment to say (trade) Vooch, Giddey, Coby and Patrick.

But the only reason that would be so is because Zion got drafted in 2019, its 2025, and he's played a total of 191 games. Out of a possible 451. Unless he miraculously stays consistently healthy for many years to come it would further destroy the future of a franchise whose FO has already taken steps to ruin it for a decade. It would be devastating.

FWIW, this isn’t fully accurate. Zion’s contract contains outs every year depending on his health/games played. This is the only reason I’m open to a Zion trade. If he’s perennially unavailable, you just nix the contract and free up a bunch of cap space.

Sweet! That makes me even more open to it, even though I still vastly prefer what I drone on about all the time. The downside to that annual option to get out of his contract is it raises his trade value which brings the bidding war element back into play. Which is not good for us. We are Sean Connery's proverbial guy who brought the knife to a gunfight if we end up having to outbid other teams.

[Dan Z]

But the only reason that would be so is because Zion got drafted in 2019, its 2025, and he's played a total of 191 games. Out of a possible 451. Unless he miraculously stays consistently healthy for many years to come it would further destroy the future of a franchise whose FO has already taken steps to ruin it for a decade. It would be devastating.

FWIW, this isn’t fully accurate. Zion’s contract contains outs every year depending on his health/games played. This is the only reason I’m open to a Zion trade. If he’s perennially unavailable, you just nix the contract and free up a bunch of cap space.

Sweet! That makes me even more open to it, even though I still vastly prefer what I drone on about all the time. The downside to that annual option to get out of his contract is it raises his trade value which brings the bidding war element back into play. Which is not good for us. We are Sean Connery's proverbial guy who brought the knife to a gunfight if we end up having to outbid other teams.

I'll add that if the Bulls trade for Zion they won't use those opt out clauses for at least a few years (three?). They'll want time with him. At that point his contract will basically be expiring.

I'd rather they not trade for him, but just wanted to mention this.

[DuckIII]

FWIW, this isn’t fully accurate. Zion’s contract contains outs every year depending on his health/games played. This is the only reason I’m open to a Zion trade. If he’s perennially unavailable, you just nix the contract and free up a bunch of cap space.

Sweet! That makes me even more open to it, even though I still vastly prefer what I drone on about all the time. The downside to that annual option to get out of his contract is it raises his trade value which brings the bidding war element back into play. Which is not good for us. We are Sean Connery's proverbial guy who brought the knife to a gunfight if we end up having to outbid other teams.

I'll add that if the Bulls trade for Zion they won't use those opt out clauses for at least a few years (three?). They'll want time with him. At that point his contract will basically be expiring.

I'd rather they not trade for him, but just wanted to mention this.

The fact that the option is there at all is a big relief to me nonetheless. Realistically, is there anyone else out there that posters think can be had and could legitimately turn us into a team with a chance to get out of the East? That we could actually outbid anyone to acquire? I can't think of any.

[HomoSapien]

Coby and Pat for Zion works in the trade checker. Maybe you add the Portland pick so the Pelicans can feel like they got some draft capital for him, but I think that's the deal. Coby and Pat have shown that they won't make or break the franchise, but they're useful pieces in a rebuild.

I think you try to keep Ball because he and Zion are close. We might need his perspective to try and navigate a working relationship with Zion. I also think you try to keep Vuc. Vuc's shooting ability can keep things a little more open for Zion. Plus, we probably have a limited number of seasons with Zion's health. You might as well keep as much talent as possible, because Zion is good enough to swing a playoff series if healthy.

C. Vuc/Smith
PF. Zion/Craig/Philips
SF. LaVine/THT/Buzelis
SG. Ayo/Terry/Duarte
PG. Giddey/Ball/Carter

I dunno... I don't hate that team.