Lineup Stats

[djsunyc]

to put some of these in context, for 5 man lineups, we only have 1 lineup that has over 100 mins. most teams have 2 or more lineups with over 100 mins. in fact, our 2nd most used lineup would be 5th or lower on most teams. injuries have played a huge part of our season.

mins / ortg / drtg / net

overall: 1887 / 109.9 / 117.8 / -7.9

5 man lineups (in min order):

yak + rj + ochai + davion + dick: 167 / 116.7 / 113.1 / +3.6

yak + rj + ochai + scottie + jakobe: 63 / 122.8 / 100.7 / +22.1

yak + rj + iq + scottie + dick: 62 / 102.3 / 122.0 / -19.7

yak + rj + ochai + scottie + dick: 53 / 101.8 / 116.4 / -14.6

yaj + iq + ochai + scottie + dick: 46 / 120.0 / 109.1 / +10.9

yak + ochai + davion + scottie + dick: 44 / 102.2 / 114.7 / -12.5

yak + rj + ochai + davion + scottie: 42 / 107.5 / 97.7 / +9.8

there's some randomness here. dick has been in positive lineups and negative. same for iq.

last year in just under 200 mins, yak + scottie + rj + iq posted a +10.9 net. this year, not good:

79 / 99.4 / 125.1 / -25.7

[Thaddy]

Jakobe needs more minutes. He can do anything IQ or Dick can (maybe notch lower) but he also plays defense.

[LoveMyRaps]

My takeaway is that RJ and Dick can't be on the court at the same time.

I think Dick is best suited for a 6th man role.

Interested in seeing how IQ-Barrett-Ochai-Barnes-Poeltl perform over a larger sample size.

Also want to see Walter get some more playing time.

[LoveMyRaps]

Jakobe needs more minutes. He can do anything IQ or Dick can (maybe notch lower) but he also plays defense.

We gotta stop this nonsense.

The other week we had someone make a thread about how Shead and Mitchell can do anything IQ can, and now you're suggesting Walter can also outperform IQ?
News flash... HE CAN'T.

Let's not be foolish.

[HumbleRen]

So basically the 2 worst defenders on the team that play a lot of minutes can’t play together. Shocker.

[djsunyc]

My takeaway is that RJ and Dick can't be on the court at the same time.

I think Dick is best suited for a 6th man role.

Interested in seeing how IQ-Barrett-Ochai-Barnes-Poeltl perform over a larger sample size.

Also want to see Walter get some more playing time.

rj + gradey

571 mins / 111.8 / 116.0 / -4.2

with that, almost all our 2 player combos with over 100 mins are negative.

[Thaddy]

Jakobe needs more minutes. He can do anything IQ or Dick can (maybe notch lower) but he also plays defense.

We gotta stop this nonsense.

The other week we had someone make a thread about how Shead and Mitchell can do anything IQ can, and now you're suggesting Walter can also outperform IQ?
News flash... HE CAN'T.

Let's not be foolish.

He has shot creation talent, extended range, POA defense, draws fouls, and he can handle the ball. I would say he's at a better starting point than most guards. He's shown a big game, high rebounding game, and consistent POA defense. I would honestly start him. The difference between him and Agbaji isn't much, he's younger, and we're the worst team in the league right now.

[Tripod]

Jakobe needs more minutes. He can do anything IQ or Dick can (maybe notch lower) but he also plays defense.

We gotta stop this nonsense.

The other week we had someone make a thread about how Shead and Mitchell can do anything IQ can, and now you're suggesting Walter can also outperform IQ?
News flash... HE CAN'T.

Let's not be foolish.

He has shot creation talent, extended range, POA defense, draws fouls, and he can handle the ball. I would say he's at a better starting point than most guards. He's shown a big game, high rebounding game, and consistent POA defense. I would honestly start him. The difference between him and Agbaji isn't much, he's younger, and we're the worst team in the league right now.

Walter can do all those things when RJ sits.

You have a dislike for Ochai for some reason. He is great as the 5th starter. Can be a POA defender, doesn't need the ball in his hands, cuts well and is shooting 40% from 3.

We know the offense will flow thru IQ, RJ, Barnes and Yak so having that 5th guy as a 3+D guy is ideal. Walter isn't even shooting 30% yet from 3.

So Walter with the 2nd unit gives that unit that extra ball handler when the starters sit and he can get the ball more.

[LoveMyRaps]

Jakobe needs more minutes. He can do anything IQ or Dick can (maybe notch lower) but he also plays defense.

We gotta stop this nonsense.

The other week we had someone make a thread about how Shead and Mitchell can do anything IQ can, and now you're suggesting Walter can also outperform IQ?
News flash... HE CAN'T.

Let's not be foolish.

He has shot creation talent, extended range, POA defense, draws fouls, and he can handle the ball. I would say he's at a better starting point than most guards. He's shown a big game, high rebounding game, and consistent POA defense. I would honestly start him. The difference between him and Agbaji isn't much, he's younger, and we're the worst team in the league right now.

He had a TS% of 54 in college and a TS% of 49 right now.
He has A LOT of work to do as a shooter. If you can't shoot as a guard, you're not gonna get a lot of playing time in this league - plain & simple.

Ochai is the better defender and a 40% 3pt shooter (61% TS) - he's earned his spot in the starting rotation.

[Scase]

My takeaway is that RJ and Dick can't be on the court at the same time.

I think Dick is best suited for a 6th man role.

Interested in seeing how IQ-Barrett-Ochai-Barnes-Poeltl perform over a larger sample size.

Also want to see Walter get some more playing time.

I'm with you but in the opposite direction. I think RJ should be the 6th man and Dick should be starting long term. As for this year and probably next, play them both, who cares about the defensive issues, we aren't trying to win.

GD needs burn with the starters to be that long term, and no better time than now.

[HumbleRen]

My takeaway is that RJ and Dick can't be on the court at the same time.

I think Dick is best suited for a 6th man role.

Interested in seeing how IQ-Barrett-Ochai-Barnes-Poeltl perform over a larger sample size.

Also want to see Walter get some more playing time.

I'm with you but in the opposite direction. I think RJ should be the 6th man and Dick should be starting long term. As for this year and probably next, play them both, who cares about the defensive issues, we aren't trying to win.

GD needs burn with the starters to be that long term, and no better time than now.

We can’t gift him minutes like that though. RJ is the best scorer on the team, it would be setting a bad example if we reward GD like that.

Darko just needs to stagger their minutes. Bring out GD at the 5 minute mark then use GD as a first option with the bench line ups. Run some plays for him, get his confidence up.

[Scase]

My takeaway is that RJ and Dick can't be on the court at the same time.

I think Dick is best suited for a 6th man role.

Interested in seeing how IQ-Barrett-Ochai-Barnes-Poeltl perform over a larger sample size.

Also want to see Walter get some more playing time.

I'm with you but in the opposite direction. I think RJ should be the 6th man and Dick should be starting long term. As for this year and probably next, play them both, who cares about the defensive issues, we aren't trying to win.

GD needs burn with the starters to be that long term, and no better time than now.

We can’t gift him minutes like that though. RJ is the best scorer on the team, it would be setting a bad example if we reward GD like that.

Darko just needs to stagger their minutes. Bring out GD at the 5 minute mark then use GD as a first option with the bench line ups. Run some plays for him, get his confidence up.

RJ is playing pretty mid himself, with a roster this bad, there isn't much of a pecking order to be established. They both are hovering around the exact same efficiency, RJ has an edge on FTr as expected, but Dick has a much more varied offence and more range.

I don't see how picking either one of them over the other is setting a bad example. One of them is 21 with 90 games played in his career, having the exact same impact as a guy who is 24 with 360 games total. It stands to reason the younger and less experienced player has more room to grow, so I'm not sure I see any reason to arbitrarily stick him on the bench over the other.

If you wanted to make the argument of Ochai over one of them, I can see that, but neither of them really deserve it over the other based on performance, and I think it's prudent to always prioritize the younger one with more room to grow.

We're not aiming for wins, and Ochai will never really be starter level, so I just don't see the benefit of relegating him to playing on the bench.

[Duffman100]

I think those top 4 will eventually normalize down. They won't be that bad together all year long.

For the love of god stop starting Dick. We don't even know if he's a starting calibre playing in this league and we're killing his confidence in the meantime. Have him come off the bench.

[HumbleRen]

I'm with you but in the opposite direction. I think RJ should be the 6th man and Dick should be starting long term. As for this year and probably next, play them both, who cares about the defensive issues, we aren't trying to win.

GD needs burn with the starters to be that long term, and no better time than now.

We can’t gift him minutes like that though. RJ is the best scorer on the team, it would be setting a bad example if we reward GD like that.

Darko just needs to stagger their minutes. Bring out GD at the 5 minute mark then use GD as a first option with the bench line ups. Run some plays for him, get his confidence up.

RJ is playing pretty mid himself, with a roster this bad, there isn't much of a pecking order to be established. They both are hovering around the exact same efficiency, RJ has an edge on FTr as expected, but Dick has a much more varied offence and more range.

I don't see how picking either one of them over the other is setting a bad example. One of them is 21 with 90 games played in his career, having the exact same impact as a guy who is 24 with 360 games total. It stands to reason the younger and less experienced player has more room to grow, so I'm not sure I see any reason to arbitrarily stick him on the bench over the other.

If you wanted to make the argument of Ochai over one of them, I can see that, but neither of them really deserve it over the other based on performance, and I think it's prudent to always prioritize the younger one with more room to grow.

We're not aiming for wins, and Ochai will never really be starter level, so I just don't see the benefit of relegating him to playing on the bench.

I don’t know man, even when RJ is missing, his downhill ability is still so important for this offence.

There’s just no one else on the roster that can do what he does. I’m not a fan of benching the obvious better player so you can make room.

You either trade RJ or Gradey becomes good enough to where you have to choose one or the other. Gradey isn there yet, if he maintained his level of play from the first month, then sure.

Either way it’s good for the tank for both of them to play at the same time.

[Scase]

We can’t gift him minutes like that though. RJ is the best scorer on the team, it would be setting a bad example if we reward GD like that.

Darko just needs to stagger their minutes. Bring out GD at the 5 minute mark then use GD as a first option with the bench line ups. Run some plays for him, get his confidence up.

RJ is playing pretty mid himself, with a roster this bad, there isn't much of a pecking order to be established. They both are hovering around the exact same efficiency, RJ has an edge on FTr as expected, but Dick has a much more varied offence and more range.

I don't see how picking either one of them over the other is setting a bad example. One of them is 21 with 90 games played in his career, having the exact same impact as a guy who is 24 with 360 games total. It stands to reason the younger and less experienced player has more room to grow, so I'm not sure I see any reason to arbitrarily stick him on the bench over the other.

If you wanted to make the argument of Ochai over one of them, I can see that, but neither of them really deserve it over the other based on performance, and I think it's prudent to always prioritize the younger one with more room to grow.

We're not aiming for wins, and Ochai will never really be starter level, so I just don't see the benefit of relegating him to playing on the bench.

I don’t know man, even when RJ is missing, his downhill ability is still so important for this offence.

There’s just no one else on the roster that can do what he does. I’m not a fan of benching the obvious better player so you can make room.

You either trade RJ or Gradey becomes good enough to where you have to choose one or the other. Gradey isn there yet, if he maintained his level of play from the first month, then sure.

Either way it’s good for the tank for both of them to play at the same time.

Thing is, I would hope RJ would be a better choice right now considering he has like 4x the experience. And we're both on the same page for starting them both now since no one wants wins.

I think it's way too early to say whether or not Gradeys performance earlier in the year is real or just a flash, but his overall game fits the SL way better than RJs, sure his ability to get to the line is great and all, but Scottie isn't going to be a perimeter player any time soon, and if Jak ends up being here for the foreseeable future we can't keep clogging up the paint, and Gradey doesn't have that same issue.

They both suck on defence right now, but I think GD can eventually get to a point where he is a neutral defender, but RJ hasn't done that in 6 years, so that's never going to happen.

I just don't see his ability to drive (which has been shown to get shut down pretty easily) as being good enough for him to be in the SL long term.

EDIT : Taking a look at his stats, since he came back from the injury, he's got slightly better shooting splits overall (FG% down 1%, 3p% up 3%, FT% down 5%), averaging an additional REB, down about 4 points, but also down 4mpg. So really he's held surprisingly stable.

[MEDIC]

Basically, when the team doesn't put a legit POA defender on the floor, everything goes to hell.

I am starting to think putting Dick in the SL is an intentional tank move.

Every + lineup included Ochai.

[Shakril]

to put some of these in context, for 5 man lineups, we only have 1 lineup that has over 100 mins. most teams have 2 or more lineups with over 100 mins. in fact, our 2nd most used lineup would be 5th or lower on most teams. injuries have played a huge part of our season.

mins / ortg / drtg / net

overall: 1887 / 109.9 / 117.8 / -7.9

5 man lineups (in min order):

yak + rj + ochai + davion + dick: 167 / 116.7 / 113.1 / +3.6

yak + rj + ochai + scottie + jakobe: 63 / 122.8 / 100.7 / +22.1

yak + rj + iq + scottie + dick: 62 / 102.3 / 122.0 / -19.7

yak + rj + ochai + scottie + dick: 53 / 101.8 / 116.4 / -14.6

yaj + iq + ochai + scottie + dick: 46 / 120.0 / 109.1 / +10.9

yak + ochai + davion + scottie + dick: 44 / 102.2 / 114.7 / -12.5

yak + rj + ochai + davion + scottie: 42 / 107.5 / 97.7 / +9.8

there's some randomness here. dick has been in positive lineups and negative. same for iq.

last year in just under 200 mins, yak + scottie + rj + iq posted a +10.9 net. this year, not good:

79 / 99.4 / 125.1 / -25.7

Lineups without yak would be a good thing for comparison. He is part of every lineup of that list. Which makes him part of every good and bad lineup. For everybody else its obvious that it depends on how many defenders are on bord in these lineups.
Even though scoring isnt our strongsuit, pretty much every good lineup as an excellent Def rating.

[Ell Curry]

Poeltl-Scottie-Agbaji-Quickley are the 4 players we have I would define as "good at basketball." RJ is neutral at basketball, which probably makes him our 5th best player.