Cooper Flagg - Duke

[peZt]

Read on Twitter

It's an interesting observation, yeah all 5 of those guys were top picks. But 2 of them busted (Zion, Beasley) (and Holmgren might as well if he keeps getting hurt).

And we're looking for statistical correlations, of that group of 5, only the big men (C's) have succeeded. The wings have busted. Flagg is a wing...









Just for the record, I think the above observation is small sample size bull, and I would pick Cooper Flagg first overall in 2025. But it does illustrate that you should consider what the data actually says carefully...

Holmgren and Zion "busted" because of injuries. Beasly busted not because of lack of skills but because of laziness and lack of work ethic and just 0 dedication. All of these things have absolutely no relevance to Flagg or that stat at all.

[EvanZ]

Wait, Holmgren busted already? lol

[The Master]

Read on Twitter

It's an interesting observation, yeah all 5 of those guys were top picks. But 2 of them busted (Zion, Beasley) (and Holmgren might as well if he keeps getting hurt).

And we're looking for statistical correlations, of that group of 5, only the big men (C's) have succeeded. The wings have busted. Flagg is a wing...

Just for the record, I think the above observation is small sample size bull, and I would pick Cooper Flagg first overall in 2025. But it does illustrate that you should consider what the data actually says carefully...

If you point out a correlation (statistical relation between two variables), you have to also present a potential cause-effect relationship. Zion and Holmgren (potentially) being injury prone has no causal relation with them being dominant college players.

If your point is that being a dominant college player doesn't mean being a dominant NBA player (Beasley) - it's true, but being one of the most efficient college freshmen ever (stats-wise at least) is still a nice feat for Flagg, first, and second, that's an argument against basically every prospect ever.

[BigGargamel]

I watched several of Flagg's game and he wasn't concerned with scoring as he liked to get everyone involved and impact the game on both ends. Had he wanted to he could have matched Tatum's productions and shown off similar skills. Sometimes I think Flagg is a little too unselfish which is why I can't fault people for thinking he's going to be more of an elite #2 like JJJ, AD, KG type than #1. I think with a more wide open NBA he'll be a matchup nightmare and you'll see more aggression so there's potential he can be a #1 like Banchero but with great defense.

7/20. You can miss me with that unselfish bs. This thread is filled with opinion divorced from reality. Flagg is HORRIBLE as a scorer. Not mediocre, not below average, he’s legit having an all time bad scoring season for a hyped big man and may very well shoot under 40% on the season. He isn’t Tatum and will never be Tatum. Tatum is on a whole different stratosphere offensively compared to Flagg.

Flagg can’t dribble, can’t shoot, has a weak first step, athleticism isn’t as good as some people think here. Big men in college typically have much better efficiency stats than wings. There’s literally no excuse for Flagg except accepting reality. Flagg is a role player and that’s how he will succeed. A high motor player. Nothing about him screams top 2 option on a team because of his drafted team forces him into a scoring role then he will fail just like here

Life comes at you fast.

I do give bigboi props for saying something good about Flagg yesterday. Swallowing your pride and admitting you may be wrong is not a common thing on this board. But still. Real GM will never forget.

[CptCrunch]

Coopshow's BPM is up to 15.9

[SeattleJazzFan]

the idea that holmgren is a bust. lo freakin l. this board sometimes.

as far as flagg - if his shot is going to fall and it absolutely is right now, it's over. dude is just built different. on saturday he looked like what I imagine lebron looking like had he chosen to play college.

[EvanZ]

One of the things that makes Cooper so interesting to me is how broad his shoulders are. He's built kind of like AD. He can put on a lot of muscle still.

[XTC]

Coopshow's BPM is up to 15.9

With a PER of 28.9, and a TS of 58.3%

Grant Hill 2.0

[XTC]

Cooper Flagg
PER - 28.9
BPM - 15.9
TS - 58.3%
AST% - 25.5%
REB% - 15.0%
BLK% - 4.5%
STL% - 3.0
AST:TO - 1.7:1
USG - 30.9%

Banchero
PER - 22.0
BPM - 7.9
TS - 56.6%
AST% - 12.4%
REB% - 12.6%
BLK% - 3.2%
STL% - 2.3%
AST:TO - 1.3:1
USG - 26.2%

Zion
PER - 40.8
BPM - 20.1
TS - 70.2
AST% - 14.9%
REB% - 15.5%
BLK% - 5.8%
STL% - 3.9%
AST:TO - 0.8:1
USG - 28.6%

Scottie Barnes
PER - 21.4
BPM - 7.9
TS - 54.8%
AST% - 31.6%
REB% - 9.3%
BLK% - 2.1%
STL% - 3.4%
AST:TO - 1.7:1
USG - 23.7%

Ben Simmons
PER - 29.0
BPM - 10.3
TS - 60.0%
AST% - 27.4%
REB% - 18.2%
BLK% - 2.5%
STL% - 3.1%
AST:TO - 1.4:1
USG - 26.4

When I'm looking at Flagg I'm going to be comparing him to the most recent Duke guys (minus Tatum), and the most recent point forward prospects, with similar size.

Zion was clearly a freak who had GOAT potential IMO, but his lack of discipline really set him back. Flagg however really does seem to be the most well rounded prospect. He has a high usage, and he's producing. He's passing the ball at a similar rate to Barnes and Simmons, and he's scoring the ball at a level similiar to Banchero. It would not surprise me if he came in and averaged 20/8/6/1/1 as a rookie. My comparision has been Grant Hill, and I'm standing by it. Flagg is a stud

*** Edit ***

I want to clarify that stats are not the best way to measure prospects. Development curve is so dependent on the situation a player is placed into, the players themselves, and the resources they have. It's just a fun way to talk about a prospect, and project how good they could be. Obviously Flagg could bust, but I've come away thoroughly impressed whenever I have seen him play.

[clyde21]

Zion was an absolute freak prospect, a complete anomaly, and anyone who wants to pretend otherwise now is just being disingenuous

[SeattleJazzFan]

Zion was probably the greatest freshman in ncaa history. it's a shame he couldn't have kept his duke body over his nba career.

[azcatz11]

Right KD's assist to turnover ratio in college showed he wouldnt make it in the NBA.

Maluach has the same BPM as Dylan Harper at 10.9. Somehow i doubt he is views as the same level of prospect as Dylan.

How come no one is talking about Maluach?

[tontoz]

Right KD's assist to turnover ratio in college showed he wouldnt make it in the NBA.

Maluach has the same BPM as Dylan Harper at 10.9. Somehow i doubt he is views as the same level of prospect as Dylan.

How come no one is talking about Maluach?

We dont really see him do much on offense other than catch lobs. Plus i think people who watch Duke get a little distracted by that other guy.

[Hal14]

Coopshow's BPM is up to 15.9

With a PER of 28.9, and a TS of 58.3%

Grant Hill 2.0

Nobody uses PER anymnore - c'mon now.

Also, Flagg's handles and bag are not remotely close to Grant Hill..

[EvanZ]

Right KD's assist to turnover ratio in college showed he wouldnt make it in the NBA.

Maluach has the same BPM as Dylan Harper at 10.9. Somehow i doubt he is views as the same level of prospect as Dylan.

How come no one is talking about Maluach?

1) He plays 20 mpg which is low for potential first round picks.
2) He's incredibly one-dimensional and boring.

[BigGargamel]

Was so weird people were putting Harper over Flagg earlier this year. You think people would learn, but no. They let their hate for his hype cloud their judgement. There was a reason Flagg was so hyped.

[JMAC3]

His biggest hater has 1 post on RGM since Dec. 24th.
What a troll lol

[tontoz]

Was so weird people were putting Harper over Flagg earlier this year. You think people would learn, but no. They let their hate for his hype cloud their judgement. There was a reason Flagg was so hyped.

Or maybe they watched him brick jumpers from everywhere and turn it over in crucial spots.

[clyde21]

Was so weird people were putting Harper over Flagg earlier this year. You think people would learn, but no. They let their hate for his hype cloud their judgement. There was a reason Flagg was so hyped.

Or maybe they watched him brick jumpers from everywhere and turn it over in crucial spots.

it's almost as if a 6-10 17 year old isn't gonna be making every shot

i know, crazy stuff

[tontoz]

Was so weird people were putting Harper over Flagg earlier this year. You think people would learn, but no. They let their hate for his hype cloud their judgement. There was a reason Flagg was so hyped.

Or maybe they watched him brick jumpers from everywhere and turn it over in crucial spots.

it's almost as if a 6-10 17 year old isn't gonna be making every shot

i know, crazy stuff

Right because being 17 is so much different from being a few months older.

His jumper was awful the first few weeks. That actually happened, it wasn't some creation by the 'haters'.

There may be some people who hated him because of his hype or because he went to Duke. I think most people were judging him based on what he was doing on the court.