PG: Knicks vs. Bucks: ROAD KILL CAUGHT IN MSG

[Jalen Bluntson]

At a certain point you're not going to be able to afford these vets, though. No certainty Payne or Precious are here next season. Like, after watching Shamet, I can't see why he's getting time over one of the rookies. Something with Ryan.

At a certain point we may have to fire the HC. I am not defending his actions but, at no point have I've seen any of these rookies deserve a full time role either. You want it? Take it. Thibs isn't just giving it away. They have deserved more of a chance than they were given though. Sadly, that means nothing around here.

That's the thing. From what we've seen from Ariel for example, I can't imagine he'd be worse than Sims, despite the borderline playability Sims had recently before Precious was back in. And I still don't know what Ryan or Shamet provides that Dadiet can't be taught to do. Like, Payne -- who has been in the league for a few years -- up until recently looked spooked out there, which I assume it's because of that out of nowhere bench a few weeks ago.

I am agreeing with you. Thibs doesn't care. It's just the way it is. My frustrations with Thibs are well documented. I'm just gonna focus on the guys he would actually play and what they do. They are the problem with the bench because they are the only players on the bench. Follow?

We have Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious all healthy tonight. He played 3 of them last night. Let's see where this goes. We haven't had more than 4 games in a row with all four guys. That was during the streak. They produced early and it helped. Baby steps. That's how I'm gonna see it. I have no choice. Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best.

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibs sees these rookies in practice. He knows if they're ready or not.

He played Obi and IQ in their rookie season. He brought along Grimes and McBride slowly and they became reliable rotation players for us. Perhaps he's not a rookie hater and he knows what he's doing.

These expectations that Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti are ready to contribute are based on wishful thinking. But second rounders rarely become NBA players for a reason. Players like McBride are the exception, not the rule, and it took him time to be able to contribute and not be a liability.

Thibs and/or the FO do need to find one more bench player to better distribute the minutes of the starters.

But to throw a young player into the fire prematurely can not only hurt the team but also destroy their confidence. Perhaps it's in their best interest.

[thebuzzardman]

Thibs sees these rookies in practice. He knows if they're ready or not.

He played Obi and IQ in their rookie season. He brought along Grimes and McBride slowly and they became reliable rotation players for us. Perhaps he's not a rookie hater and he knows what he's doing.

These expectations that Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti are ready to contribute are based on wishful thinking. But second rounders rarely become NBA players for a reason. Players like McBride are the exception, not the rule, and it took him time to be able to contribute and not be a liability.

Thibs and/or the FO do need to find one more bench player to better distribute the minutes of the starters.

But to throw a young player into the fire prematurely can not only hurt the team but also destroy their confidence. Perhaps it's in their best interest.

Knicks need to trade either Sims, Precious or Mitch, in about that order of preference, for a wing with some defensive ability and some height.

Like Sims for Cam Whitmore. All the stuff that's come up in the trade thread.

Again, carrying 5, FIVE f*cking centers is a joke.

KAT
Sims
Precious
Huk
Mitch

Hell, they even have Moses Brown in the G-League

I'm sure they have their ideas.
Like, maybe it's Sims because Huk can backfill him
Maybe it's Precious because they feel Mitch can come back and Precious is on a one year deal and they might lose him for nothing (not sure of Bird rights situation)
Maybe it's Mitch where they are comfortable with Precious/Sims/Huk as backups or don't trust Mitch's health.

I'm sure they see this, just waiting for the right deal.

[sol537]

1) Bring Mitch back when he's ready
2) Trade for a guy like Deni with our remaining assets to bolster the bench
3) Profit

[Jalen Bluntson]

Thibs sees these rookies in practice. He knows if they're ready or not.

He played Obi and IQ in their rookie season. He brought along Grimes and McBride slowly and they became reliable rotation players for us. Perhaps he's not a rookie hater and he knows what he's doing.

These expectations that Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti are ready to contribute are based on wishful thinking. But second rounders rarely become NBA players for a reason. Players like McBride are the exception, not the rule, and it took him time to be able to contribute and not be a liability.

Thibs and/or the FO do need to find one more bench player to better distribute the minutes of the starters.

But to throw a young player into the fire prematurely can not only hurt the team but also destroy their confidence. Perhaps it's in their best interest.

Knicks need to trade either Sims, Precious or Mitch, in about that order of preference, for a wing with some defensive ability and some height.

Like Sims for Cam Whitmore. All the stuff that's come up in the trade thread.

Again, carrying 5, FIVE f*cking centers is a joke.

KAT
Sims
Precious
Huk
Mitch

Hell, they even have Moses Brown in the G-League

I'm sure they have their ideas.
Like, maybe it's Sims because Huk can backfill him
Maybe it's Precious because they feel Mitch can come back and Precious is on a one year deal and they might lose him for nothing (not sure of Bird rights situation)
Maybe it's Mitch where they are comfortable with Precious/Sims/Huk as backups or don't trust Mitch's health.

I'm sure they see this, just waiting for the right deal.

They have to see it. They have been tap dancing around the apron and making trades none of us thought we possible for the most part. They have been signing team friendly deals for years. Making mostly solid to great trades. I trust them. They will work around the fringes the best they can. In the meantime we will build chemistry with the core we have. Did I mention we are the three seed? Nice!

[3toheadmelo]

Thibs sees these rookies in practice. He knows if they're ready or not.

He played Obi and IQ in their rookie season. He brought along Grimes and McBride slowly and they became reliable rotation players for us. Perhaps he's not a rookie hater and he knows what he's doing.

These expectations that Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti are ready to contribute are based on wishful thinking. But second rounders rarely become NBA players for a reason. Players like McBride are the exception, not the rule, and it took him time to be able to contribute and not be a liability.

Thibs and/or the FO do need to find one more bench player to better distribute the minutes of the starters.

But to throw a young player into the fire prematurely can not only hurt the team but also destroy their confidence. Perhaps it's in their best interest.

[Fury]

Thibs sees these rookies in practice. He knows if they're ready or not.

He played Obi and IQ in their rookie season. He brought along Grimes and McBride slowly and they became reliable rotation players for us. Perhaps he's not a rookie hater and he knows what he's doing.

These expectations that Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti are ready to contribute are based on wishful thinking. But second rounders rarely become NBA players for a reason. Players like McBride are the exception, not the rule, and it took him time to be able to contribute and not be a liability.

Thibs and/or the FO do need to find one more bench player to better distribute the minutes of the starters.

But to throw a young player into the fire prematurely can not only hurt the team but also destroy their confidence. Perhaps it's in their best interest.

It's a good and fair point. But at the same time, and I could be wrong, I would find it hard to believe that there's no other team in the NBA with similar experience coming off the bench. And even that or those teams don't have guys leading the league in minutes. The minute stuff can be overblown but to have like 4 guys in the top 5 of minutes played is absurd.

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibs sees these rookies in practice. He knows if they're ready or not.

He played Obi and IQ in their rookie season. He brought along Grimes and McBride slowly and they became reliable rotation players for us. Perhaps he's not a rookie hater and he knows what he's doing.

These expectations that Kolek, Dadiet and Hukporti are ready to contribute are based on wishful thinking. But second rounders rarely become NBA players for a reason. Players like McBride are the exception, not the rule, and it took him time to be able to contribute and not be a liability.

Thibs and/or the FO do need to find one more bench player to better distribute the minutes of the starters.

But to throw a young player into the fire prematurely can not only hurt the team but also destroy their confidence. Perhaps it's in their best interest.

It's a good and fair point. But at the same time, and I could be wrong, I would find it hard to believe that there's no other team in the NBA with similar experience coming off the bench. And even that or those teams don't have guys leading the league in minutes. The minute stuff can be overblown but to have like 4 guys in the top 5 of minutes played is absurd.

I agree that we need to give someone minutes to spare the starters. My point was the rookies might not be ready, in which case Thibs might be protecting them by not throwing them to the fire and developing them behind closed doors.

[GettinitDone]

Absolutely, but to their credit I think the Knicks fans are getting more mature and they've learned we're only legitimate title contenders when we beat the top teams, and so far in the season we haven't.

We are more intelligent than we think we are, and we get shoved down a product advertised to be top quality but it's anything but down our throats, we're starting to reject until we're served the right product.

Imo, last year's team with the right levels of energy and vibes set the standard, but the energy and vibes are lost with departure of iHart and Divo... imo a team with 8 level talent but with the right levels of energy and vibes are always going to beat and more exciting for fans to watch and root for >>>> a team with 9+ level talent but with so so/ mediocre levels of energy and vibes. IHart and Divo are imo 2 of the best in the L at raising team's energy and vibes with their attitude, fight, and plays.

They're ultimate glue guys, we're missing the vibes raiser, we need to get 1-2 via trades.

Apparently we are supposed to be the best team in the league after less than three months. Maybe the fans that need to mature are the ones who think that. CLE/OKC/BOS have been together for years. Things take time. We are top 5 in the entire league. Not good enough?

The year Boston first made it to the Finals, weren't they like .500 through January?

We're 0-5 against top 2 teams in both conferences (Celtics, Cavs, Thunder, Rockets), our "elite" offense averaging 103.6ppg (would be dead last in the L), our defense allowing 118.8ppg (26th in the L) with a point differential of -15.2ppg (dead last in the L).

Don't take satisfaction in beating lesser teams, be happy with the Ws but not comfy cuz we haven't showed we can hang with them.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Apparently we are supposed to be the best team in the league after less than three months. Maybe the fans that need to mature are the ones who think that. CLE/OKC/BOS have been together for years. Things take time. We are top 5 in the entire league. Not good enough?

The year Boston first made it to the Finals, weren't they like .500 through January?

We're 0-5 against top 2 teams in both conferences (Celtics, Cavs, Thunder, Rockets), our "elite" offense averaging 103.6ppg (would be dead last in the L), our defense allowing 118.8ppg (26th in the L) with a point differential of -15.2ppg (dead last in the L).

Don't take satisfaction in beating lesser teams, be happy with the Ws but not comfy cuz we haven't showed we can hang with them.

Two years ago we beat the snot out of Cleveland. They have the same team basically. We have a new one.

[K_ick_God]

It is alarming that JB goes from poor games to 40+ because that cries out that it’s fatigue.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It is alarming that JB goes from poor games to 40+ because that cries out that it’s fatigue.

Or maybe he's recovering from an injury?

[GettinitDone]

The year Boston first made it to the Finals, weren't they like .500 through January?

We're 0-5 against top 2 teams in both conferences (Celtics, Cavs, Thunder, Rockets), our "elite" offense averaging 103.6ppg (would be dead last in the L), our defense allowing 118.8ppg (26th in the L) with a point differential of -15.2ppg (dead last in the L).

Don't take satisfaction in beating lesser teams, be happy with the Ws but not comfy cuz we haven't showed we can hang with them.

Two years ago we beat the snot out of Cleveland. They have the same team basically. We have a new one.

Well they have a new coach, and completely new results. We have the same coach, and similar results in spite of a new supposedly upgraded roster.

[Jalen Bluntson]

We're 0-5 against top 2 teams in both conferences (Celtics, Cavs, Thunder, Rockets), our "elite" offense averaging 103.6ppg (would be dead last in the L), our defense allowing 118.8ppg (26th in the L) with a point differential of -15.2ppg (dead last in the L).

Don't take satisfaction in beating lesser teams, be happy with the Ws but not comfy cuz we haven't showed we can hang with them.

Two years ago we beat the snot out of Cleveland. They have the same team basically. We have a new one.

Well they have a new coach, and completely new results. We have the same coach, and similar results in spite of a new supposedly upgraded roster.

Ummm. Yeah. Ok. We should be dominating the league but, we only have the 5th best record in the NBA. TERRIBLE results! You're right. We suck.

[Luv those Knicks]

No no no and no.

This is wishful thinking after a win.

We have a very thin bench and a coach who just plays his "guys." Very bad combination.

Second round team at best.

OKC = DEEP
Houston = DEEP
Celtics = DEEP
CAVS = DEEP

These are the top 4 teams in the league. A key player can get injured on the roster and they have someone to step up and contribute. We dont have that.

Lose 1 or 2 starters and it unravels very fast because Thibs has not built up the talent on the bench the FO gave him to nurture. There is only one guy there who can probably step in cold and fill their role competently and reliably and that's Kolek. But Hukporti and Dadiet are not learning on the job and won't be ready when someone goes down. Waiting on Mitch is not the answer.

Thibs isn't playing rookies in their first year right away. Might not even play them at all in the regular rotation. The fact that we haven't had a healthy bench all year should have made room for a rookie or two to get some burn but, Thibs.

Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious was the projected bench until Mitch gets back. They have all missed time. Significant time. We have had all four healthy for a total of 5 games this year. We won all 5 of those games I believe.

Yesterday we ran an 8 man rotation. Payne/Deuce/Precious played 32 minutes in the first half and scored 20 pts. That's what we need from the bench. The starters were all fresh for the second half as a result. We cruised to victory. This is the bench production we need to keep from breaking down or losing steam in the 4th qtr.

If/when Mitch gets back we will be deeper. Thibs will have too many options to run players into the ground but, whether or not he uses them will be the question. The team, needs to stay healthy and even then, we do not have the continuity or chemistry that CLE/BOS/OKC has. It will be a tough run to win a chip but, it's not entirely out of the question. We just need to keep developing the chemistry up amd down the roster and to avoid serious injuries.

I'd like to see them get a scorer off the bench. Payne, Deuce, Precious, Shamet aren't bad. Shamet can score some, but our starting 5 are clearly superior. I think they could mix it up more, maybe when Mitch comes back, by moving OG or Bridges or maybe Hart, but probably Bridges to the bench. He might not like it, but I think that would improve our roster variation and ability to move the lineup around.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Lose 1 or 2 starters and it unravels very fast because Thibs has not built up the talent on the bench the FO gave him to nurture. There is only one guy there who can probably step in cold and fill their role competently and reliably and that's Kolek. But Hukporti and Dadiet are not learning on the job and won't be ready when someone goes down. Waiting on Mitch is not the answer.

Thibs isn't playing rookies in their first year right away. Might not even play them at all in the regular rotation. The fact that we haven't had a healthy bench all year should have made room for a rookie or two to get some burn but, Thibs.

Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Precious was the projected bench until Mitch gets back. They have all missed time. Significant time. We have had all four healthy for a total of 5 games this year. We won all 5 of those games I believe.

Yesterday we ran an 8 man rotation. Payne/Deuce/Precious played 32 minutes in the first half and scored 20 pts. That's what we need from the bench. The starters were all fresh for the second half as a result. We cruised to victory. This is the bench production we need to keep from breaking down or losing steam in the 4th qtr.

If/when Mitch gets back we will be deeper. Thibs will have too many options to run players into the ground but, whether or not he uses them will be the question. The team, needs to stay healthy and even then, we do not have the continuity or chemistry that CLE/BOS/OKC has. It will be a tough run to win a chip but, it's not entirely out of the question. We just need to keep developing the chemistry up amd down the roster and to avoid serious injuries.

I'd like to see them get a scorer off the bench. Payne, Deuce, Precious, Shamet aren't bad. Shamet can score some, but our starting 5 are clearly superior. I think they could mix it up more, maybe when Mitch comes back, by moving OG or Bridges or maybe Hart, but probably Bridges to the bench. He might not like it, but I think that would improve our roster variation and ability to move the lineup around.

No.

[GettinitDone]

Two years ago we beat the snot out of Cleveland. They have the same team basically. We have a new one.

Well they have a new coach, and completely new results. We have the same coach, and similar results in spite of a new supposedly upgraded roster.

Ummm. Yeah. Ok. We should be dominating the league but, we only have the 5th best record in the NBA. TERRIBLE results! You're right. We suck.

We're 5th but 0-5 vs top 4, dead last in the L in offense and points differential, 5th worst in points allowed. We ABSOLUTELY SUCK against top 4.

Who cares bro about the other 25 bottom teams?? They're not gonna be there once the conference finals roll around... why would you care, unless you don't have your sights on ECF or Finals for the Knicks??

[sol537]

Get one of: Hunter (ATL), Tre Murphy (NOP), or Deni (POR) or someone like that. Would provide a Hart/OG like mid-season boost. Big time.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Well they have a new coach, and completely new results. We have the same coach, and similar results in spite of a new supposedly upgraded roster.

Ummm. Yeah. Ok. We should be dominating the league but, we only have the 5th best record in the NBA. TERRIBLE results! You're right. We suck.

We're 5th but 0-5 vs top 4, dead last in the L in offense and points differential, 5th worst in points allowed. We ABSOLUTELY SUCK against top 4.

Who cares bro about the other 25 bottom teams?? They're not gonna be there once the conference finals roll around... why would you care, unless you don't have your sights on ECF or Finals for the Knicks??

ECF or bust IMO. We played BOS the first game of the season. We choked away a game against CLE. We choked away a game against OKC. Teams that have played together for YEARS. It's like your expectations aren't a little extreme and I am a fool for thinking it isn't that big of a deal. We have 40 games under our belt. We probably aren't going to perform as consistently as they do. Just a thought. Silly me. One of those teams might win the title this year.

We haven't played with our full bench yet. We have basically 4 new starters on our team for the umpteenth time in a year and a half.

Brunson/Grimes/RJ/Randle/Mitch 2mos
Brunson/DDV/OG/Randle/Shart 1mos
Brunson/DDV/Hart/Precious/Shart 2mos
Brunson/DDV/Hart/OG/Shart 1mos
Brunson/Mikal/Hart/OG/KAT 3mos

That's since the beginning of last season and I didn't even mention the revolving bench. I think a little patience is necessary. Just my two cents. 26-14 and the #3 seed. With work to do.

[K_ick_God]

It is alarming that JB goes from poor games to 40+ because that cries out that it’s fatigue.

Or maybe he's recovering from an injury?

Maybe. Would seem rather a sudden recovery.