2024-2025 Regular Season Game 41: Philadelphia 76ers (15-21) at Orlando Magic (22-18) 6:00PM

[Knightro]

Cmon. You and I both know where this train is headed and trades never seem to be a station it stops at. Regardless of the health situation.

We have 2 picks this year and logically no room for them, so something will.have to give. But I expect it to be a " 2 picks tomorrow in exchange.for my pick today" kind of deal.

But it's not a wasted exercise to learn that a team without Suggs, Franz and Paolo for huge chunks an grit out so many wins. That's going to be big for the postseason, imo. You just have to get there and be the type of team that can win in 7 or less.

I continue to agree that this isn't how id have done it but we'll learn a lot from this year and the main learnings are still to come - when we try to run the Franz offense with Paolo (if that's what Mose want to do).

I go the opposite way with the two 2025 draft picks. If they're not moving them for a clear upgrade, then I think they need to make both picks even if the expectation isn't for either guy to play anytime soon.

This roster is about to get extremely top heavy and the days of backups making $15M+ are going to come to an end eventually.

They're going to need to find more guys like Da Silva who can be drafted outside the lottery and make like $3M a year for the next four years to fill out the back half of the rotation and roster.

[Knightro]

Who is proposing a fast forward?

Pointing out that the criticisms since the trade deadline of last season, offseason, and this season are continually being pushed aside because “there isn’t enough data, let’s wait and see”. Now it’s due to injuries as to why nothing is being addressed or has been previously addressed.

I’m merely using this thread of a positive improbable outcome to point this out instead of a loss thread that will be regarded as “expected” because of obvious injuries.

And yes, I still need to see what their grand plan was on offense. An offense that wasn’t good on paper aside from “potential”. 4 games of data doesn’t show anything. We were having these conversations at the same time last year.

Cmon. You and I both know where this train is headed and trades never seem to be a station it stops at. Regardless of the health situation.

We have 2 picks this year and logically no room for them, so something will.have to give. But I expect it to be a " 2 picks tomorrow in exchange.for my pick today" kind of deal.

But it's not a wasted exercise to learn that a team without Suggs, Franz and Paolo for huge chunks an grit out so many wins. That's going to be big for the postseason, imo. You just have to get there and be the type of team that can win in 7 or less.

I continue to agree that this isn't how id have done it but we'll learn a lot from this year and the main learnings are still to come - when we try to run the Franz offense with Paolo (if that's what Mose want to do).

What I think will happen?

Exactly what you proposed. Cycling picks maybe attached to some bench guy in order to not have them make decisions “for later” whatever that means.

I don’t expect them to really address anything and the tag line will be “man we were really injured last season we really need a full season to know which way to go” in between a series of sniffles. They’ll feign like they have zero idea how skillsets work and aren’t familiar with who they are handing millions upon millions of dollars to.

I think it will be a big postseason. I’ve also been saying that every season going on 3 years and it really hasn’t been true.

There is something to be gained from watching players step up and get their number called. I would categorize that as internal development experience. We know a player like Cole or Suggs can randomly step up on a Tuesday and generate enough for a win. Thats great. That gives us more information about Mosely than anything related to roster decisions though.

Everything you're saying would be a lot more justifiable if the Magic had hit a plateau in their team development.

But that hasn't even happened yet. I think if they get Franz and Suggs back to go with what we've seen out of Paolo that they're absolutely capable of winning a playoff series.

Now if they get into the playoffs this year and get swept in the first round? Ok sure, then they need to evaluate where and why the plateau took place and make the appropriate adjustments to the roster.

But we're just not there yet. The goal this year should be to advance further than last year.

[VFX]

Cmon. You and I both know where this train is headed and trades never seem to be a station it stops at. Regardless of the health situation.

We have 2 picks this year and logically no room for them, so something will.have to give. But I expect it to be a " 2 picks tomorrow in exchange.for my pick today" kind of deal.

But it's not a wasted exercise to learn that a team without Suggs, Franz and Paolo for huge chunks an grit out so many wins. That's going to be big for the postseason, imo. You just have to get there and be the type of team that can win in 7 or less.

I continue to agree that this isn't how id have done it but we'll learn a lot from this year and the main learnings are still to come - when we try to run the Franz offense with Paolo (if that's what Mose want to do).

What I think will happen?

Exactly what you proposed. Cycling picks maybe attached to some bench guy in order to not have them make decisions “for later” whatever that means.

I don’t expect them to really address anything and the tag line will be “man we were really injured last season we really need a full season to know which way to go” in between a series of sniffles. They’ll feign like they have zero idea how skillsets work and aren’t familiar with who they are handing millions upon millions of dollars to.

I think it will be a big postseason. I’ve also been saying that every season going on 3 years and it really hasn’t been true.

There is something to be gained from watching players step up and get their number called. I would categorize that as internal development experience. We know a player like Cole or Suggs can randomly step up on a Tuesday and generate enough for a win. Thats great. That gives us more information about Mosely than anything related to roster decisions though.

Everything you're saying would be a lot more justifiable if the Magic had hit a plateau in their team development.

But that hasn't even happened yet. I think if they get Franz and Suggs back to go with what we've seen out of Paolo that they're absolutely capable of winning a playoff series.

Now if they get into the playoffs this year and get swept in the first round? Ok sure, then they need to evaluate where and why the plateau took place and make the appropriate adjustments to the roster.

But we're just not there yet. The goal this year should be to advance further than last year.

Ok I’ll bite.

If Orlando wins a playoff series, then they are right on track despite this season being a plethora of injuries and not having enough continuity as a group. Run it back because they overachieved.

If they lose in a similar fashion as last season, then there is a lot of work to be done in the offseason to address those issues. Players should be moved to build around their core. Make adjustments on the margins.

I think the takeaway from management will be option A regardless of outcome.

[Knightro]

Ok I’ll bite.

If Orlando wins a playoff series, then they are right on track despite this season being a plethora of injuries and not having enough continuity as a group. Run it back because they overachieved.

If they lose in a similar fashion as last season, then there is a lot of work to be done in the offseason to address those issues. Players should be moved to build around their core. Make adjustments on the margins.

I mean... yeah? The only thing I'd push back is the Magic winning a playoff series this year would not be overachieving. That would be an appropriate amount of progress based on what they did last year, what they added, and how much improvement their top talents have made.

Winning two series would be overachieving IMO.

But yes of course I believe the Magic are going to want to actually see on the court what the Suggs/KCP/Franz/Paolo/Goga - Black/TDS/Isaac/Carter rotation can and can't accomplish in the playoffs before they decide to make sweeping changes to that group.

If they get into the playoffs, are healthy, and still lose in the first round? Then running it back is not really a viable option for next year. They would clearly be missing something and would need to address it.

[jezzerinho]

What I think will happen?

Exactly what you proposed. Cycling picks maybe attached to some bench guy in order to not have them make decisions “for later” whatever that means.

I don’t expect them to really address anything and the tag line will be “man we were really injured last season we really need a full season to know which way to go” in between a series of sniffles. They’ll feign like they have zero idea how skillsets work and aren’t familiar with who they are handing millions upon millions of dollars to.

I think it will be a big postseason. I’ve also been saying that every season going on 3 years and it really hasn’t been true.

There is something to be gained from watching players step up and get their number called. I would categorize that as internal development experience. We know a player like Cole or Suggs can randomly step up on a Tuesday and generate enough for a win. Thats great. That gives us more information about Mosely than anything related to roster decisions though.

Everything you're saying would be a lot more justifiable if the Magic had hit a plateau in their team development.

But that hasn't even happened yet. I think if they get Franz and Suggs back to go with what we've seen out of Paolo that they're absolutely capable of winning a playoff series.

Now if they get into the playoffs this year and get swept in the first round? Ok sure, then they need to evaluate where and why the plateau took place and make the appropriate adjustments to the roster.

But we're just not there yet. The goal this year should be to advance further than last year.

Ok I’ll bite.

If Orlando wins a playoff series, then they are right on track despite this season being a plethora of injuries and not having enough continuity as a group. Run it back because they overachieved.

If they lose in a similar fashion as last season, then there is a lot of work to be done in the offseason to address those issues. Players should be moved to build around their core. Make adjustments on the margins.

I think the takeaway from management will be option A regardless of outcome.

This is the bit I'm struggling with.

If we win a series, we have "overachieved"???

I just don't see it that way. Are Cleveland overachieving? I mean they haven't substantially changed their roster since they got taken to 7 games in R1 and lost in R2.

Seems to me like Cleveland have internally developed.

Seems to me like Orlando have internally developed. Some stat that got posted lately referenced Paolo and Franz as 2 of the players in the entire league at all positions whose offensive output had improved the most (O-LEBRON iirc). That's big internal development, objectively. Suggs has also developed. Black is no longer standing in the corner on every possession - he has developed. Goga has developed massively - he is ranked just outside the top 50 in total EPM for the whole NBA.

So, if everyone as an individual has developed internally (objectively speaking) and the team is on course for a similar win rate last year despite missing key players for huge chunks, then objectively the team play and coaching have developed internally.

That means we are a much better team. End of.

All that remains is to get healthy and put it into practice in the post-ASB and playoffs.

We have every chance - in that context - of improving on last year's postseason. That despite the East being much tougher this year.

So I just don't buy any kind of narrative that the positives of this year are somehow diminished in value, in significance or a simple overachievement.

I don't think we should have gotten to today without a consolidation already. But now we're here, with the very limited potential to add an impact player (CJ McC is prob the only one I see as viable), it seems churlish to deny the current team the significance of what they're all doing.

[SOUL]

It depends on our matchup. I think we can lose in the 1st again with a harder matchup than last year just by virtue of injuries/a team might give us more matchup problems, etc. Don't think it would necessarily mean the roster is faulty. By that, I mean like the guys we KNOW are staying. I think they'll make moves regardless moving forward because the contracts/roster situation will force the them to. I know for the players it would feel like a failure though. I just think regardless, all of them know that "their year(s)" are the upcoming 4-5 instead of right this second.

[Residual-Heat]

how can one be so negative that they turn success into failure?

[VFX]

how can one be so negative that they turn success into failure?

Thats your takeaway from the conversation?

Nobody is upset this team is competing with a bunch of injuries. Thats an overwhelmingly positive thing.

This is an unfortunate year for the team to be amassing injuries. We had two in this game alone to players playing exceedingly well leading up to it. One major injury two games prior.

It's just a frustrating situation because we know how this FO operates and how important evaluating the roster was this season. Thats all that is being said here.

[Knightro]

how can one be so negative that they turn success into failure?

Thats your takeaway from the conversation?

Nobody is upset this team is competing with a bunch of injuries. Thats an overwhelmingly positive thing.

This is an unfortunate year for the team to be amassing injuries. We had two in this game alone to players playing exceedingly well leading up to it. One major injury two games prior.

It's just a frustrating situation because we know how this FO operates and how important evaluating the roster was this season. Thats all that is being said here.

We're still over 4 months basically from the playoffs.

If they go into the playoffs injured, that will be lousy, but I think they're gonna get healthy well before the playoffs and we're going to get a very nice extended glimpse into what this team can and can't do.

And then the front office will be able to evaluate what needs to happen next from there.

[eyriq]

This is the bit I'm struggling with.

If we win a series, we have "overachieved"???

Yes. If we win it implies we have one of the best young cores of all time.

[eyriq]

Put it this way. If we win you celebrate the achievement because it was improbable given our age. You raise the value you place on the key contributors. You adjust your future expectations. What you don't do is lose sight of where you are relative to a normal rebuilding timeline. You don't skip steps. You don't freak out if the surprising results don't reoccur.

[JoshuaPotter]

Put it this way. If we win you celebrate the achievement because it was improbable given our age. You raise the value you place on the key contributors. You adjust your future expectations. What you don't do is lose sight of where you are relative to a normal rebuilding timeline. You don't skip steps. You don't freak out if the surprising results don't reoccur.

My AI bot went off. Friendly reminder we played a cheese wheel off the bench over Anthony Black in a series that went to 7 games and theoretically was winnable in 5.

Reality, is we were about 14 minutes away from winning the series when you include game6 and game7.

[Skybox]

Put it this way. If we win you celebrate the achievement because it was improbable given our age. You raise the value you place on the key contributors. You adjust your future expectations. What you don't do is lose sight of where you are relative to a normal rebuilding timeline. You don't skip steps. You don't freak out if the surprising results don't reoccur.

My AI bot went off. Friendly reminder we played a cheese wheel off the bench over Anthony Black in a series that went to 7 games and theoretically was winnable in 5.

Reality, is we were about 14 minutes away from winning the series when you include game6 and game7.

A Cheese Wheel?

It's true though, CLE has improved, but we've added KCP & TdS and we saw a flash of MVP-level Paolo and All-Star level Franz...if we could just get healthy and...(you know what I'm going to say )