PG: Knicks Cough It Up For The Pistons

[thebuzzardman]

Thibs is awful.

The team came out flat and f*cked up AGAIN in the first quarter.

He can't adjust to coaches who coach a decent defense.

The offense is good because of the players, he does zero with creativity or things to put them in a position to succeed.

He's 100% the bottleneck of the team getting better.


Hey, before I put it all on Thibs, last year the team won 50 games, but it was a LUCKY 50. Like, they had to play out of their minds every night to win.

This year, based on talent, they've changed to a legit 50 win team.

But they are neither talented enough to truly contend OR the coach is holding them back.
I'm going with the 2nd.

So, the trades improved the team. Trades needed to be made. Whether it was really worth going all in on this specific group is another discussion, but the team is absolutely better than last year.
Thibs, however, is exactly who he is.
Won't coach to stop 3's
Gets outcoached REGULARLY
Won't play the bench
Asinine rotations (part of the bench issue but somewhat different)
Isn't creative enough to adjust to zones, basically because his offense is extremely uncreative in the first place. As usual.

It's nice the Knicks don't aren't abjectly awful like they were for years.
I'm still sort of checked out while Thibs is still the coach.
Team isn't going anywhere as currently constructed or with Thibs as coach.
It's easier to change the coach.
Just promote Rick Brunson and Thibs upstairs, find a real coach.
Probably fire all of Thibs assistants. Who needs a bunch of Mini-Thibs around?

[HEZI]

Brunson also doesn’t have good court awareness or ability to make passes that help break the traps. He get blanketed but the only pass he will ever make is back to the top of the key. He either can’t see the rest of the floor or just doesn’t have the ability to swing the ball cross court or even drop it off to the roller. Hes very predictable in that he will turn around and make the safe pass to the top of the key which always results in the defense having plenty of time to rotate and recover back and us not being able to gain any advantage.

It could be his small size but I think it’s also his inability to see the floor and make those type of reads because there are small guards who can still make those type of passes out of a trap

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Every year is the same thing. Thibs is really incapable of adjusting anything

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5 seasons and the team crumbles when a zone is thrown at it, through different iterations of the team with different rosters and it always looks like deer in headlights when the zone comes out.


Also, this is 4 years old

Here’s the dirty secret about Thibodeau’s defense: it gives up oodles of threes and layups. It’s a defense that requires high effort and high IQ to pull off correctly. When it works, players are whirring around, helping, digging, tagging, recovering in a beautiful (and exhausting) dance. When it doesn’t, it leads to open shots of the worst kind.

Last year, the Knicks gave up the 23rd-most threes and 21st-most rim attempts per Cleaning The Glass. However, opponents couldn’t hit the ocean from a boat: the Knicks had the lowest allowed FG% from both of those spots. The hard closeouts spooked perimeter players, who would rush a shot or pump-fake and dribble into the lane (explaining how a team that plays so much help defense allows so many paint shots), but drivers were met there by ferocious shot-blockers.

This year, New York allows the 28th-most threes and 24th-most shots at the rim. They’re still protecting the paint at a league-best rate (thanks to Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel, and Taj Gibson, a trio of threatening rim protectors). But teams are shooting at average accuracy against them from deep now, which is a problem when giving up a massive number of threes.

https://www.basketballpoetry.com/p/bing-bongs-to-ding-dongs-whats-going


His defense gives up open looks from threes and has done that since he got here, except now shooters are getting better and he hasn't adjusted.

[The KnicksFix]

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I know the simple way out is to blame Thibs, but the reality is the knicks knowingly gave up defense for premier offense. KAT is an exceptional offensive
Player, but his defense being so poor is a HUGE reason why the defense has dropped off considerably this year just as the offense efficiency has gone way up. This is NOT a coaching problem this is KAT is an awful defender problem

If you know it’s a personnel problem, then playing different schemes are supposed to offset and mitigate that lack somewhat. The problem is Thibs continues to pack the paint as if
A. We have a rim protecting big
B. Opposing offense hasn’t changed in the last 15 years to a 3 point barrage
It shows a lack of understanding and ability to adapt.

The warriors were able to hide both Poole and Curry in the starting lineup the last year they won the chip.

[thebuzzardman]

Not worried, it’s a long season. Scheduling loss on a back to back.

The NBA back to back thing is so wack. It's forever been a scam to hand teams wins, particularly with road teams coming in to play a home team, with the road team on a back to back with travel.

My uncle made a LOT of money just constantly betting the home team against a team traveling on the 2nd game of a back to back. Pre internet days he had to place bets in different cities to get the better line, but overall, the odds worked in his favor.

That and poker. When he got older we helped him integrate two big safety boxes full of cash back into the regular economy.

[Wildcat]

Wrong thread.

[The KnicksFix]

Every year is the same thing. Thibs is really incapable of adjusting anything

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=nv1DuIYAil1NHCZU015rLg

5 seasons and the team crumbles when a zone is thrown at it, through different iterations of the team with different rosters and it always looks like deer in headlights when the zone comes out.


Also, this is 4 years old

Here’s the dirty secret about Thibodeau’s defense: it gives up oodles of threes and layups. It’s a defense that requires high effort and high IQ to pull off correctly. When it works, players are whirring around, helping, digging, tagging, recovering in a beautiful (and exhausting) dance. When it doesn’t, it leads to open shots of the worst kind.

Last year, the Knicks gave up the 23rd-most threes and 21st-most rim attempts per Cleaning The Glass. However, opponents couldn’t hit the ocean from a boat: the Knicks had the lowest allowed FG% from both of those spots. The hard closeouts spooked perimeter players, who would rush a shot or pump-fake and dribble into the lane (explaining how a team that plays so much help defense allows so many paint shots), but drivers were met there by ferocious shot-blockers.

This year, New York allows the 28th-most threes and 24th-most shots at the rim. They’re still protecting the paint at a league-best rate (thanks to Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel, and Taj Gibson, a trio of threatening rim protectors). But teams are shooting at average accuracy against them from deep now, which is a problem when giving up a massive number of threes.

https://www.basketballpoetry.com/p/bing-bongs-to-ding-dongs-whats-going


His defense gives up open looks from threes and has done that since he got here, except now shooters are getting better and he hasn't adjusted.

This the most disgustingly depressive quotes

[The KnicksFix]

Thibs would rather lose his way, than win someone else’s

[JXL]

Huh? Why?

They have a better record after 41 games than last season, the season before that, and the season before that.

-No one expected Cleveland to be #1 in the East (although the talent on that team says otherwise, but just needed the right coach to push them in the right direction)
-Detroit is better than advertised with Cade at All-Star level production with SHOOTING.
-Orlando, Indiana, Milwaukee isn't going away

Why are they in the hot seat? Improvements are almost always linear-based in an NBA season. I expect this team to improve while the FO improves in the margins.

[Wildcat]

Thibs would rather lose his way, than win someone else’s

Truer words have never been spoken. I'm still hoping you can teach an old dog new tricks, but my optimism is pretty low in that regards.

[The KnicksFix]

put me on record, i'll take a sore loser postgame kerfuffle at this point, i need to see more fight. stewart flexed his jersey on "cap" and he did nothing. the reason it doesn't matter to people that our record is better now than it was this time last year is that last year a lot of our L's were dogfights and this year we cashed in almost all of our chips. this isn't me being a "realGM" this is me as a fan analyzing why many fans aren't happy

Preach bro, the reason why the fans’ anger is now reaching a boiling point is because we made a bunch of moves, but are somehow only 2 games better. The floor was raised this year, and the ceiling lowered. We have higher expectations this year. A 2nd round exit will not cut it.

[The KnicksFix]

Huh? Why?

They have a better record after 41 games than last season, the season before that, and the season before that.

-No one expected Cleveland to be #1 in the East (although the talent on that team says otherwise, but just needed the right coach to push them in the right direction)
-Detroit is better than advertised with Cade at All-Star level production with SHOOTING.
-Orlando, Indiana, Milwaukee isn't going away

Why are they in the hot seat? Improvements are almost always linear-based in an NBA season. I expect this team to improve while the FO improves in the margins.

Bro, you’re a dubs fan, if you’re a Knick fan, you know why Thibs is on his way out

[The KnicksFix]

i'm pretty much to the point now where i accept the reality that we're not winning with Brunson as our best player. it's not about him being a small guard as much as he's a poor defender on one end, and on the other he's not an elite playmaker. it could potentially work if you had the perfect team around him - but we've seen well coached teams exploit brunson and Kat relentlessly and we have no answer. offensively it's limited also because he's just not a great playmaker. you see cam come off the bench and get Kat a dunk on a PnR. how many times has brunson done that? he uses picks to get his own shot or to kick out after collapsing the defense. the way this team is constructed we would be better off with a playmaking lead guard. more realistically we need a playmaking 2 or wing to let him play more off ball.

maybe if OG and bridges legit were wing stoppers while algo being able to play make on the other end... but they're both limited offensively in the regard and at this point honestly overrated at best on defense.

it's a flawed team with a flawed coach. the window is still at least 3 years (maybe 4 meaning 3 years after this one) - so there is time to make tweaks and improve the roster (and maybe get rid of thibs) - but i went from thinking it was fairly decent odds they would win at least 1 in that window to now it feels like beyond a long shot to even make the finals (unless we get extremely lucky with opposing teams injuries or matchups etc).

it's unfortunate we went all in for this. i feel like our best moment in these next few years is going to be upsetting a favored team like the celtics, cavs etc in an earlier round series and then losing to a beatable team after that.

The Knicks are good enough to win a chip. Adding Mitch will help a ton, if they can add another chipper on the bench with Payne and deuce, they’ll be cookin. The problem is the coach. As long as we dont lose him, we wont go anywhere.

[The KnicksFix]

Thibs would rather lose his way, than win someone else’s

Truer words have never been spoken. I'm still hoping you can teach an old dog new tricks, but my optimism is pretty low in that regards.

Facts Brody, but this old dog needs to be put down

[The KnicksFix]

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LMAOOOOOOO yo this one did it for me, I’m dead

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Huh? Why?

They have a better record after 41 games than last season, the season before that, and the season before that.

-No one expected Cleveland to be #1 in the East (although the talent on that team says otherwise, but just needed the right coach to push them in the right direction)
-Detroit is better than advertised with Cade at All-Star level production with SHOOTING.
-Orlando, Indiana, Milwaukee isn't going away

Why are they in the hot seat? Improvements are almost always linear-based in an NBA season. I expect this team to improve while the FO improves in the margins.

Expectations.


The team is underperforming and has issues that can be directly related to coaching, such as the fact we cannot beat a zone consistently in 5 years or the ridiculous drop in offensive efficiency in the 4th that you can say is fatigue.

The same reason JB Bickerstaff got the boot from the Cavs. When problems persist through multiple different iterations of a team, it's the coach.

[TKKnicks1]

We got no assets left. They shopping freakin Jericho Sims and putting fake news out there like the league actually has interest in this scrub. The team is uber talented but there is absolutely no creativity to mix and match lineups up to get the best out of everyone. Thibs is just gonna let this this carriage ride and practically have the wheels fall off until Mitch gets back and then he will sit back and sign another extension saying " I told you so."

[TKKnicks1]

Wow. Just wow.

Read on Twitter

[The KnicksFix]

We got no assets left. They shopping freakin Jericho Sims and putting fake news out there like the league actually has interest in this scrub. The team is uber talented but there is absolutely no creativity to mix and match lineups up to get the best out of everyone. Thibs is just gonna let this this carriage ride and practically have the wheels fall off until Mitch gets back and then he will sit back and sign another extension saying " I told you so."

Hopefully sims + 2nds

[JXL]

Huh? Why?

They have a better record after 41 games than last season, the season before that, and the season before that.

-No one expected Cleveland to be #1 in the East (although the talent on that team says otherwise, but just needed the right coach to push them in the right direction)
-Detroit is better than advertised with Cade at All-Star level production with SHOOTING.
-Orlando, Indiana, Milwaukee isn't going away

Why are they in the hot seat? Improvements are almost always linear-based in an NBA season. I expect this team to improve while the FO improves in the margins.

Bro, you’re a dubs fan, if you’re a Knick fan, you know why Thibs is on his way out

It's to camouflage in the GB. Showing the Knicks badge ridicules you there.