Giddey vs. Ball (vs. White) who do we keep next season?

[sco]

Thinking about this coming offseason, the PG debate going into next season is interesting. Giddey is a RFA, Ball is a UFA, and Coby is under contract for one season. What do you guys want to do? The reality is that all 3 guys could co-exist the 1-3 spots and could share playmaking roles. There is an argument to try to keep Giddey and Ball, if they could be had at reasonable prices. I don't see the FO trading Coby (although I disagree) - especially if they trade Zach (or hope to).

The reality is that none of them is/would be a top 10 PG.

Giddey is a great passer, an average (4th option) scorer, a below average 3pt shooter and a below average defender (I think he improved from terrible to start the season).

Ball is a great passer, a below average (5th option) scorer (he really is terrible inside the arc), an average (historically great) 3pt shooter, and an elite defender, but has major durability questions.

White is an average passer, an above average (3rd option) scorer, an above average 3pt shooter, and a below average defender.

What do you guys think?

[League Circles]

This is a very difficult and critical decision.

Ball is the best player but obvious huge injury concerns still.

Giddey has the most potential probably maybe sorta.

Coby is the highest floor, most reliable, most versatile current player of the 3.

IMO we should shop all 3 and basically let the offers make the decision for us.

Ayo should be thrown into the discussion too.

[ChettheJet]

Before we get there the first question would be, do we still have Zach or if not then who did we get for him. Then second Ayo has to be part of the discussion.

I want Lonzo back, of the three (5) he may not put up the same scoring numbers as Lavine and White, he's 1st on my list. If he rounds into shape the rest of the season even more so.
White may be inconsistent shooting and scoring wise all around he's good enough to be here going forward. I don't see another team wanting to trade for him to start, he might for the Bulls but if he was agreeable to come off the bench then I'd want him around.
I don't think Giddey has had the ball in his hands enough for the Bulls to contribute what he can. Zach brings the ball up too much, Coby at times appears to be the PG. I don't see Giddey as a SG, he would look better with the ball, directing the offense, driving to the basket and rebounding more than shooting 3's.
Ayo is stuck in the middle, not enough of a willing shooter to be a SG, doesn't quite have the passing skills to direct the offense. Don't know if he can make progress on one or the other. He fits in perfectly as the off the bench combo guard who gets the defense in gear, moves the ball well and cuts to the basket on offense. Another team is going to see him as the 7th or 8th man coming off the bench same as the Bulls so I don't think he'd be an expensive guy to keep.

Again the unknown is have they traded Lavine and what did they get or is he still the starting SG which if you keep Lonzo means you move White and Giddey maybe keep Ayo.

[sco]

On Lavine, I think there's a good chance the FO won't know if an offseason trade is happening by the time of the start of free agency, although there's a chance it happens on draft night.

[jnrjr79]

It's crazy to say, but at this point, figuring what I expect the contracts to look like, I'd actually prefer bringing Ball back.

I don't expect the Bulls to re-sign both Coby and Ayo, so I would try to trade Coby this season and prioritize a new deal for Ayo when he comes due.

Giddey has shown enough, particularly with increased defensive effort, that I would be open to a return, but I'm worried the contract number is going to be unpalatable.

Giddey and Ball share the court well together, so shipping Coby off would create more opportunities for that pairing, which would be nice.

[kodo]

I like the potential upside on Giddey the most.

He's elite in his role, assist creator, where Coby is average in his.
Per 100 possessions Giddey is 10th in the league in assists, his assist rate is superstar level given the other players in that range.
Joker 12.6
Lebron 12.4
Harden 11.5
Giddey 11.2
Brunson 10.7
Luka 10.6

Per 100 possessions, Coby White is 67th in points. The other players scoring at his rate are NBA players, but not rare finds.
Bobby Portis 26.2
MPJ 26.1
TJ McConnell 26.0
Coby White 26.0
Payton Pritchard 25.9
Austin Reaves 25.5

Giddey is also 22 vs Coby's 24, and he's been a far better defender & hustler than White. I also think he's got such a bad rep around the league he'll be cheaper to keep plus he's a RFA. Teams almost never even create the offer sheet to a RFA unless they know 99.9% they'll get the player because it still ties up their cap space, so it's overpay or don't make any offer at all. And I really don't see teams overpaying for Giddey.

Coby OTOH is a UFA, if another team offers even less than Chicago he's free to take the other team's offer. There's a number of ways teams can convince him to join for similar money (better record, better teammates, better coach, whatever).

I love, love Lonzo but still don't trust his body and would not rely on him. As long as his next contract is dirt cheap I'm fine with him on the team for nightly entertainment value. The Bulls have to put somebody on the floor next season.

Also important is whether we're keeping Lavine for his full contract now. Without Lavine, the needs a designated tough shot taker, which would have to be Coby White. With Lavine on the roster, Coby is redundant with and just a lot less effective than Lavine. You could trade White right now for a PF who performs better than Pat on points/rebounds, which is like any NBA PF, and can cover for Vuc on defense and the team would probably go on a run.

[sco]

It's crazy to say, but at this point, figuring what I expect the contracts to look like, I'd actually prefer bringing Ball back.

I don't expect the Bulls to re-sign both Coby and Ayo, so I would try to trade Coby this season and prioritize a new deal for Ayo when he comes due.

Giddey has shown enough, particularly with increased defensive effort, that I would be open to a return, but I'm worried the contract number is going to be unpalatable.

Giddey and Ball share the court well together, so shipping Coby off would create more opportunities for that pairing, which would be nice.

I feel like the whole "we got Coby and Ayo for below market" thing was overblown. Coby has been playing like a 4th quartile starting guard/6th man, and his deal is pretty fair for that. Ayo's game has regressed both offensively and defensively from his peak to being a 7th or 8th man...personally I think he bulked up too much and lost some quickness, which was key to his game on both ends.

[sco]

I like the potential upside on Giddey the most.

He's elite in his role, assist creator, where Coby is average in his.
Per 100 possessions Giddey is 10th in the league in assists, his assist rate is superstar level given the other players in that range.
Joker 12.6
Lebron 12.4
Harden 11.5
Giddey 11.2
Brunson 10.7
Luka 10.6

Per 100 possessions, Coby White is 67th in points. The other players scoring at his rate are NBA players, but not rare finds.
Bobby Portis 26.2
MPJ 26.1
TJ McConnell 26.0
Coby White 26.0
Payton Pritchard 25.9
Austin Reaves 25.5

Giddey is also 22 vs Coby's 24, and he's been a far better defender & hustler than White. I also think he's got such a bad rep around the league he'll be cheaper to keep plus he's a RFA. Teams almost never even create the offer sheet to a RFA unless they know 99.9% they'll get the player because it still ties up their cap space, so it's overpay or don't make any offer at all. And I really don't see teams overpaying for Giddey.

Coby OTOH is a UFA, if another team offers even less than Chicago he's free to take the other team's offer. There's a number of ways teams can convince him to join for similar money (better record, better teammates, better coach, whatever).

I love, love Lonzo but still don't trust his body and would not rely on him. As long as his next contract is dirt cheap I'm fine with him on the team for nightly entertainment value. The Bulls have to put somebody on the floor next season.

Also important is whether we're keeping Lavine for his full contract now. Without Lavine, the needs a designated tough shot taker, which would have to be Coby White. With Lavine on the roster, Coby is redundant with and just a lot less effective than Lavine. You could trade White right now for a PF who performs better than Pat on points/rebounds, which is like any NBA PF, and can cover for Vuc on defense and the team would probably go on a run.

I'm with you.

If I could pick only 1, I'd probably go with Giddey and just do my best to dissuade other teams from bidding by saying we'll match any offer.

[waffle]

A great question...

ugh.

Can we get Giddey for a reasonable amount? Does he like it here?
I rather hope Coby is out of here. Just do
LOVE BALL and he has hinted he'd take a reasonable contract

REALISTICALLY i'd say Ball Which sort of surprises me

[Mindcrime]

Ball.

Not only a great player when healthy, but also great team player and under rathed leader. Can't foresee either Giddey or Coby being any of it.

[pipfan]

I really want us to keep Ball, but as a bench piece. I think his days of heavy minutes are over
Giddy or White should be bench pieces, but I don't like keeping both.

I guess
Ayo/Ball
Lavine/White
Matas/Ball/Lavine
PWill/Phillips
Vuc/Smith

Could be a 1st round loss-man, we're in sad shape!

[Ctownbulls]

Giddey has to go. I like the guy but unless he figures out how to shoot he is unplayable down the stretch.

[GoBlue72391]

I don't think any of them are worth keeping, but we missed the window to sell high on Coby, per usual.

Giddey is still an enigma to me, I don't know what to think of him. I'd rather let some of team worry about that, but as an expiring his trade value surely is minimal. I don't think he'll be worth the big, long-term contract he will want. We don't want to be stuck with two young stagnated players on long-term contracts, especially if we fail to move Zach and Vuc's contracts.

If Lonzo is willing to return on a team-friendly contract with a team option for the second year then great, if not then move on from him.

[2weekswithpay]

I'd keep Coby. As long as you don't overpay for them, volume scoring guards can still be valuable pieces on good teams. Pritchard, Monk, Herro, etc. Most teams need shooting/scoring in the halfcourt so these guards always have a place in the league despite their flaws and limitations.

Lonzo is the best and most impactful player because he's a two-way guard, but his injury concerns make him unreliable. I'd like him back for a low price but so would most teams in the league.

Giddey isn't a bad player but his archetype isn't valuable. A big guard or forward with elite passing but below average shooting, scoring, and defense creates too many problems for team building and rotations. Ideally, you want your role players to be plug and play guys. East fits next to other players and can be utilized in a variety of lineups without sacrificing too much.

Against the Kings was the first time Giddey closed a game since we played the Bucks and unsurprisingly the Kings attacked him in the last 5 minutes.

[Rose2Boozer]

I would just allow Ball to expire and walk during the off season. I like Ball's game, but this team needs frontcourt production. The Bulls have too many low producing frontcourt players. There's no way this team can go forward relying on Vucevic, Smith and not much else.

[jnrjr79]

It's crazy to say, but at this point, figuring what I expect the contracts to look like, I'd actually prefer bringing Ball back.

I don't expect the Bulls to re-sign both Coby and Ayo, so I would try to trade Coby this season and prioritize a new deal for Ayo when he comes due.

Giddey has shown enough, particularly with increased defensive effort, that I would be open to a return, but I'm worried the contract number is going to be unpalatable.

Giddey and Ball share the court well together, so shipping Coby off would create more opportunities for that pairing, which would be nice.

I feel like the whole "we got Coby and Ayo for below market" thing was overblown. Coby has been playing like a 4th quartile starting guard/6th man, and his deal is pretty fair for that. Ayo's game has regressed both offensively and defensively from his peak to being a 7th or 8th man...personally I think he bulked up too much and lost some quickness, which was key to his game on both ends.

Both their contracts remain tradeable value deals, IMO. The question is what they're going to get on their next contracts.

[jnrjr79]

I would just allow Ball to expire and walk during the off season. I like Ball's game, but this team needs frontcourt production. The Bulls have too many low producing frontcourt players. There's no way this team can go forward relying on Vucevic, Smith and not much else.

A re-signed Ball is not likely to have any impact on frontcourt options. Absent other more significant salary-shedding trades, the Bulls are going to be operating with the MLE this offseason.

[sco]

I would just allow Ball to expire and walk during the off season. I like Ball's game, but this team needs frontcourt production. The Bulls have too many low producing frontcourt players. There's no way this team can go forward relying on Vucevic, Smith and not much else.

A re-signed Ball is not likely to have any impact on frontcourt options. Absent other more significant salary-shedding trades, the Bulls are going to be operating with the MLE this offseason.

I think we'll only have the MLE unless we trade Zach for expirings at the deadline.

[HomoSapien]

It's a really tough question, and I think you also have to throw Ayo into this equation. To me, he's the clearest keeper of the bunch.

Here's what I'll say about each:

1. If we keep Zach, Coby feels like the most expendable to me. That said, for a fanbase that is craving real tangible growth from its young players (Pat, Buzelis, Terry, Phillips), Coby is one of the few guys that is actually putting up numbers. 18 and 5 from a 25-year-old is nothing to sneeze at, even if we all get frustrated with him. He also is the only true scorer between our younger guards. For those reasons, I'm keeping him unless I'm getting a piece or asset that pushes the rebuild forward in a trade.

2. Lonzo Ball - I think there's an overwhelming sense on this board that he's quietly our best/most impactful player whenever he's on the floor. Mr. Intangibles. I would like to keep him if we can sign him to a deal that either has a bunch of team options or protections based on games played. I also think that if he keeps this up, he'll be a tradeable asset moving forward. Given his defensive versatility, we can easily have him on the floor with Coby and Giddey.

3. Josh Giddey - To me, this comes down completely to what it'll cost to keep him. If it's a value deal, great. If it feels like an overpay, then I'd push for a sign and trade. He's a confusing player. On one hand, I love how productive he is. Even if he's struggling to score, you're almost certain to get a bunch of rebounds and assists out of him. I value guys that can do that. On the other hand, it's sometimes hard to imagine him being a full-time starter since teams attack him so hard. I think there's a chance he'll grow into a competent shooter, but his defensive limitations are a more insurmountable issue.

[Rose2Boozer]

I would just allow Ball to expire and walk during the off season. I like Ball's game, but this team needs frontcourt production. The Bulls have too many low producing frontcourt players. There's no way this team can go forward relying on Vucevic, Smith and not much else.

A re-signed Ball is not likely to have any impact on frontcourt options. Absent other more significant salary-shedding trades, the Bulls are going to be operating with the MLE this offseason.

They're only fifteen roster spots. The Bulls will more than likely have twelve spots under contract, hopefully a first round pick, and a second round pick from the Kings. This organization don't have the luxury of bringing back Lonzo. We already have so many guards, and so many not good enough players holding spots on the roster. Bringing him back would be a waste of his time and the non tax paying Bulls organization. I like Lonzo Ball, but it's time to move on.