Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V1.0

[Boogie!]

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Chris Bosh at one point said he loves Toronto too when he was playing for us. Means nothing.

Chris bosh wasn’t the same type of person. Remember bosh created pr videos to push for an all star birth. Shai doesn’t have that neediness for attention.

[Jadoogar]

If Mobley can play like this, Scottie may end up as the third best player in his class

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[Jadoogar]

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Chris Bosh at one point said he loves Toronto too when he was playing for us. Means nothing.

Chris bosh wasn’t the same type of person. Remember bosh created pr videos to push for an all star birth. Shai doesn’t have that neediness for attention.

Literally every player has said this stuff. Durant said it about OKC. LeBron said it about Cleveland. These are just words

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[mihaic]

Chris Bosh at one point said he loves Toronto too when he was playing for us. Means nothing.

Chris bosh wasn’t the same type of person. Remember bosh created pr videos to push for an all star birth. Shai doesn’t have that neediness for attention.

Literally every player has said this stuff. Durant said it about OKC. LeBron said it about Cleveland. These are just words

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They even mean it when they say it. But people change their minds when things go differently than they expect

[Jstock12]

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[HumbleRen]

If Mobley can play like this, Scottie may end up as the third best player in his class

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Bunch of guys in the class are making a real jump.

Trey Murphy, Franz, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, etc.

Think Scottie is 4th right now behind Franz, Cade and Mobley. JJ and Sengun fighting him for 5th.

Class is finally living up to its potential.

[Jadoogar]

If Mobley can play like this, Scottie may end up as the third best player in his class

Sent from my KB2005 using RealGM mobile app

Bunch of guys in the class are making a real jump.

Trey Murphy, Franz, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, etc.

Think Scottie is 4th right now behind Franz, Cade and Mobley. JJ and Sengun fighting him for 5th.

Class is finally living up to its potential.

Cade and Mobley are ahead of him for sure. i would put him on par with Franz and Sengun.
Jalen Johnson is tougher to evaluate because benefits greatly from playing with an elite passer like Trae. He's fantastic in his role but i think Scottie or Franz would also thrive in a similar role.

[brownbobcat]

Chris bosh wasn’t the same type of person. Remember bosh created pr videos to push for an all star birth. Shai doesn’t have that neediness for attention.

Plus Bosh was trading a lackluster situation in Toronto for a chance to play with LeBron/Wade in Miami. Expecting Shai to leave a title contender just to be in Toronto during the winter is not the same thing.

[HumbleRen]

If Mobley can play like this, Scottie may end up as the third best player in his class

Sent from my KB2005 using RealGM mobile app

Bunch of guys in the class are making a real jump.

Trey Murphy, Franz, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, etc.

Think Scottie is 4th right now behind Franz, Cade and Mobley. JJ and Sengun fighting him for 5th.

Class is finally living up to its potential.

Cade and Mobley are ahead of him for sure. i would put him on par with Franz and Sengun.
Jalen Johnson is tougher to evaluate because benefits greatly from playing with an elite passer like Trae. He's fantastic in his role but i think Scottie or Franz would also thrive in a similar role.

I think Franz is a much better player than Scottie at this moment. He showed that if he had first option touches, he’s easily a 25/5/5 guy with elite defence.

Sengun is showing he can be the best player on a 50+ win team. JJ is a toss up but I don’t JJ being able to play well with another high usage player is a knock. I don’t think Scottie would be able to play great offball like Mobley or JJ.

[brownbobcat]

I think Franz is a much better player than Scottie at this moment. He showed that if he had first option touches, he’s easily a 25/5/5 guy with elite defence.

Sengun is showing he can be the best player on a 50+ win team. JJ is a toss up but I don’t JJ being able to play well with another high usage player is a knock. I don’t think Scottie would be able to play great offball like Mobley or JJ.

Here's the interesting thing about Franz - he's not been a great outside shooter either and, apart from FT%, his shooting percentages from distance are somewhat similar to Scottie. The main difference is that he shoots at the rim a lot more and gets fed at a higher rate instead of self-creating. I don't watch Orlando at all so maybe someone else can chime in about how what he actually improved this year - before getting hurt, anyway.

[tecumseh18]

If Mobley can play like this, Scottie may end up as the third best player in his class

Sent from my KB2005 using RealGM mobile app

Bunch of guys in the class are making a real jump.

Trey Murphy, Franz, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, etc.

Think Scottie is 4th right now behind Franz, Cade and Mobley. JJ and Sengun fighting him for 5th.

Class is finally living up to its potential.

Cade and Mobley are ahead of him for sure. i would put him on par with Franz and Sengun.
Jalen Johnson is tougher to evaluate because benefits greatly from playing with an elite passer like Trae. He's fantastic in his role but i think Scottie or Franz would also thrive in a similar role.

It all comes down Scottie's 3-ball. And avoiding stupid turnovers. If he develops his shot the way he looked like he was doing in pre-season before injuries set him back, then Scottie will be a walking 30-10-10 triple double, and the clear-cut best of his class.

But as a fan of a team which was 7th going into the 2021 lottery and picking 4th, I'm not complaining. AT ALL. The 2021 draft class was very strong, and we got one of the good ones.

[HumbleRen]

I think Franz is a much better player than Scottie at this moment. He showed that if he had first option touches, he’s easily a 25/5/5 guy with elite defence.

Sengun is showing he can be the best player on a 50+ win team. JJ is a toss up but I don’t JJ being able to play well with another high usage player is a knock. I don’t think Scottie would be able to play great offball like Mobley or JJ.

Here's the interesting thing about Franz - he's not been a great outside shooter either and, apart from FT%, his shooting percentages from distance are somewhat similar to Scottie. The main difference is that he shoots at the rim a lot more and gets fed at a higher rate instead of self-creating. I don't watch Orlando at all so maybe someone else can chime in about how what he actually improved this year - before getting hurt, anyway.

The main evidence of his improvement is that he’s able to scale up his volume to first option levels without sacrificing his efficiency.

Since Scottie has become a first option, he’s struggling to average 20 with a 54% TS, that’s really bad. Franz scaled up his volume and was able to maintain his TS% at 57%. That’s usually the biggest evidence of a player having all nba potential.

That’s all there is to becoming a perennial all star in the league, being able to maintain a decent TS% while scaling up everything, scoring, passing, usage, touches, etc. Franz was doing that before he got hurt.

[brownbobcat]

The main evidence of his improvement is that he’s able to scale up his volume to first option levels without sacrificing his efficiency.

Since Scottie has become a first option, he’s struggling to average 20 with a 54% TS, that’s really bad. Franz scaled up his volume and was able to maintain his TS% at 57%. That’s usually the biggest evidence of a player having all nba potential.

That’s all there is to becoming a perennial all star in the league, being able to maintain a decent TS% while scaling up everything, scoring, passing, usage, touches, etc. Franz was doing that before he got hurt.

Yes, but I'm talking about the "how" not the "what".

[gerrit4]

Bunch of guys in the class are making a real jump.

Trey Murphy, Franz, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, etc.

Think Scottie is 4th right now behind Franz, Cade and Mobley. JJ and Sengun fighting him for 5th.

Class is finally living up to its potential.

Cade and Mobley are ahead of him for sure. i would put him on par with Franz and Sengun.
Jalen Johnson is tougher to evaluate because benefits greatly from playing with an elite passer like Trae. He's fantastic in his role but i think Scottie or Franz would also thrive in a similar role.

It all comes down Scottie's 3-ball. And avoiding stupid turnovers. If he develops his shot the way he looked like he was doing in pre-season before injuries set him back, then Scottie will be a walking 30-10-10 triple double, and the clear-cut best of his class.

But as a fan of a team which was 7th going into the 2021 lottery and picking 4th, I'm not complaining. AT ALL. The 2021 draft class was very strong, and we got one of the good ones.

I think his shooting ability is better than it looks. To my eyes, he'll never become a great three point shooter off the dribble, above the break, etc. As a catch and shoot corner three shooter (like PJ Tucker, etc), I think he can actually be a good shooter right now (I haven't looked at his advanced stats, but I think he could easily become a 35% corner three point shooter). I think that the terrible shot selection (which seems to be getting better as of late) is what really hurts him as a shooter. He's almost taking as many threes as KD per game, and KD is one of the best shooters ever. He's averaging more three point shots per game than Dirk ever did in his career (although the era is different).

[Boogie!]

Bunch of guys in the class are making a real jump.

Trey Murphy, Franz, Sengun, Jalen Johnson, etc.

Think Scottie is 4th right now behind Franz, Cade and Mobley. JJ and Sengun fighting him for 5th.

Class is finally living up to its potential.

Cade and Mobley are ahead of him for sure. i would put him on par with Franz and Sengun.
Jalen Johnson is tougher to evaluate because benefits greatly from playing with an elite passer like Trae. He's fantastic in his role but i think Scottie or Franz would also thrive in a similar role.

I think Franz is a much better player than Scottie at this moment. He showed that if he had first option touches, he’s easily a 25/5/5 guy with elite defence.

Sengun is showing he can be the best player on a 50+ win team. JJ is a toss up but I don’t JJ being able to play well with another high usage player is a knock. I don’t think Scottie would be able to play great offball like Mobley or JJ.

See this is my fear with Scottie and why I think he absolutely needs a 3 pointer in his arsenal. Scottie looked great last year when he was knocking down catch and shoot 3s. Because it allows him to be versatile and play off ball. Because as we’ve seen this year, it doesn’t look like he can consistently be the ball dominant guy to carry the team. So if he’s not that, and he can’t play off ball, what is he? Right now he’s projecting to be a Lamar odom. Not a bad player, but Lamar wasn’t really ever considered a star and didn’t win until he was put next to actual stars.

[HangTime]

I think Franz is a much better player than Scottie at this moment. He showed that if he had first option touches, he’s easily a 25/5/5 guy with elite defence.

Sengun is showing he can be the best player on a 50+ win team. JJ is a toss up but I don’t JJ being able to play well with another high usage player is a knock. I don’t think Scottie would be able to play great offball like Mobley or JJ.

Here's the interesting thing about Franz - he's not been a great outside shooter either and, apart from FT%, his shooting percentages from distance are somewhat similar to Scottie. The main difference is that he shoots at the rim a lot more and gets fed at a higher rate instead of self-creating. I don't watch Orlando at all so maybe someone else can chime in about how what he actually improved this year - before getting hurt, anyway.

The main evidence of his improvement is that he’s able to scale up his volume to first option levels without sacrificing his efficiency.

Since Scottie has become a first option, he’s struggling to average 20 with a 54% TS, that’s really bad. Franz scaled up his volume and was able to maintain his TS% at 57%. That’s usually the biggest evidence of a player having all nba potential.

That’s all there is to becoming a perennial all star in the league, being able to maintain a decent TS% while scaling up everything, scoring, passing, usage, touches, etc. Franz was doing that before he got hurt.

I don't think Scottie struggles to average 20.
If you asked to play big, he can do it easier.

Right now it's about expanding his game, of course there will be growing pains, but guys like Cade and Franz have had bigger roles on thier teams, year by year from year 1.

I think his 3 point shooting comfort has gotten better.
but the eye, and ankle injury hurt that. Him launching them shows that's he willing shooter, but it tanked his percentage. (it's more about later, than it is now)

So, when he does start hitting him, it'll open up the lanes.
The lack shooting around him was also intentional, to make things harder.

So Scottie's catching up.

Think of this season, as Scottie's rookie year.
His actual rookie year, is what people were probably expecting out of year 4 Barnes.

It's never been traditional with Scottie, and that's a good thing.

[islandboy53]

Keep this in mind the next time someone talks about Toronto being a treadmill team

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[HumbleRen]

Here's the interesting thing about Franz - he's not been a great outside shooter either and, apart from FT%, his shooting percentages from distance are somewhat similar to Scottie. The main difference is that he shoots at the rim a lot more and gets fed at a higher rate instead of self-creating. I don't watch Orlando at all so maybe someone else can chime in about how what he actually improved this year - before getting hurt, anyway.

The main evidence of his improvement is that he’s able to scale up his volume to first option levels without sacrificing his efficiency.

Since Scottie has become a first option, he’s struggling to average 20 with a 54% TS, that’s really bad. Franz scaled up his volume and was able to maintain his TS% at 57%. That’s usually the biggest evidence of a player having all nba potential.

That’s all there is to becoming a perennial all star in the league, being able to maintain a decent TS% while scaling up everything, scoring, passing, usage, touches, etc. Franz was doing that before he got hurt.

I don't think Scottie struggles to average 20.
If you asked to play big, he can do it easier.

Right now it's about expanding his game, of course there will be growing pains, but guys like Cade and Franz have had bigger roles on thier teams, year by year from year 1.

I think his 3 point shooting comfort has gotten better.
but the eye, and ankle injury hurt that. Him launching them shows that's he willing shooter, but it tanked his percentage. (it's more about later, than it is now)

So, when he does start hitting him, it'll open up the lanes.
The lack shooting around him was also intentional, to make things harder.

So Scottie's catching up.

Think of this season, as Scottie's rookie year.
His actual rookie year, is what people were probably expecting out of year 4 Barnes.

It's never been traditional with Scottie, and that's a good thing.

I disagree somewhat. I don’t think he’s been inefficient because he’s simply experimenting. I just think he has a very tough time creating advantages with a live dribble or at a standstill.

He’s unable to bend defences so he generally just takes what the defence is giving him. It all comes from him not being really a downhill threat with the ball.

His C&S ability last year was able to paper over that flaw but now that it’s gone, he’s having to rely more on his mid range game and 3’s.

[HumbleRen]

Cade and Mobley are ahead of him for sure. i would put him on par with Franz and Sengun.
Jalen Johnson is tougher to evaluate because benefits greatly from playing with an elite passer like Trae. He's fantastic in his role but i think Scottie or Franz would also thrive in a similar role.

I think Franz is a much better player than Scottie at this moment. He showed that if he had first option touches, he’s easily a 25/5/5 guy with elite defence.

Sengun is showing he can be the best player on a 50+ win team. JJ is a toss up but I don’t JJ being able to play well with another high usage player is a knock. I don’t think Scottie would be able to play great offball like Mobley or JJ.

See this is my fear with Scottie and why I think he absolutely needs a 3 pointer in his arsenal. Scottie looked great last year when he was knocking down catch and shoot 3s. Because it allows him to be versatile and play off ball. Because as we’ve seen this year, it doesn’t look like he can consistently be the ball dominant guy to carry the team. So if he’s not that, and he can’t play off ball, what is he? Right now he’s projecting to be a Lamar odom. Not a bad player, but Lamar wasn’t really ever considered a star and didn’t win until he was put next to actual stars.

I think right now? He’s a ceiling raiser. Not sure he’ll be dynamic enough to run a offence but it’s hard to tell with this roster. I think he seriously needs an actual lead guard. Someone like Garland would of been perfect.

[brownbobcat]

I disagree somewhat. I don’t think he’s been inefficient because he’s simply experimenting. I just think he has a very tough time creating advantages with a live dribble or at a standstill.

He’s unable to bend defences so he generally just takes what the defence is giving him. It all comes from him not being really a downhill threat with the ball.

His C&S ability last year was able to paper over that flaw but now that it’s gone, he’s having to rely more on his mid range game and 3’s.

Both can be true. I'm not overly obsessed with efficiency at this point in terms of shot mix, etc. He clearly has weaknesses to improve upon and it seems apparent the team wants him to work through it during the games.