Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[9 and 20]

I'm preparing myself for another half season of Kuz sadness. I think Brogdon is gone for sure though after the failure to trade Tyus Jones last year. Could go either way on Val.

[gambitx777]

I'm preparing myself for another half season of Kuz sadness. I think Brogdon is gone for sure though after the failure to trade Tyus Jones last year. Could go either way on Val.

Yeah JV isn't that serious he's on a 3 year deal, he's a solid vet, no big deal if we keep him. We don't have any other center other than sar on a deal after this year.

Brogdon isn't part of the teams future and we should move him but I'm having trouble finding a team and dealing that makes sense.

The Lakers could use him. But like do they just hold pat and try to wait it out for a buy out. They could get ride of Gabe Vincent. But that's only 11 million. Who's next Vanderbilt and Christie? They might now wanna let them go. So you got JHS, wood, reddish and Hayes which work but maybe you get a third team involved to spend that out a bit.

Trading Kuz would be very beneficial
I see the clippers who are in need of a ture 4 and the kings same deal at options. Not great returns but it's something.

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[Frichuela]

IMO- this would be the upper limit of a trade scenario for Kuzma right now.

Kuz to DET for the expiring of Hardaway Jr+Fontecchio (signed next year for $8mn)+ 3 2nd rounders (including TOR 2025 which is likely to be in the 31-36 range).

Heck, I'll even send them 1 of our 3 second rounders in the 2025 draft in return.

Now, would DET be foolish enough to do so? Unlikely..

https://www.si.com/nba/wizards/washington-wizards-news/washington-wizards-kyle-kuzma-sent-detroit-pistons-trade-idea

[chrbal]

3 team
Wiz get THJ, 4 seconds and 2 pick swaps in 2029 and 2030
Det get lyles, huerter
Sac get Kuz

Wiz get a modest return for kuzma

Det get a shooter upgrade for the cost fo taking on lyeles for rest of the year.

Sac get a PF upgrade.

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Pistons would need picks to take on Huerter. Also he’s having a pretty bad season and other than his first season with the Kings, he really isn’t anything special

Why would they need a pic for his contract. They are trying to win games KHJ makes sense on that team. He only has one more year so it gives them a treadable contract next year. SF is a weak spot for them so is shooting. No he's not what he was when he was 24 but he could get back there. All they trade is the corpse of THJ. KHj is only 26. He isn't a negative asset.

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The “corpse” is shooting 38 from 3 with like 5.5 attempts per game. Huerter is shooting 31 in about the same attempts per game.

Kevin is younger, but not that much different from Tim (discounting the three point struggles, one of the things he’s supposed to be good at). All this to eat up $18 million next season. I’m not saying it’s going to be a first round pick, but there’s got to be compensation for taking on that contract.

I don’t see Kevin as being worth the cost, without compensation

[gambitx777]

IMO- this would be the upper limit of a trade scenario for Kuzma right now.

Kuz to DET for the expiring of Hardaway Jr+Fontecchio (signed next year for $8mn)+ 3 2nd rounders (including TOR 2025 which is likely to be in the 31-36 range).

Heck, I'll even send them 1 of our 3 second rounders in the 2025 draft in return.

Now, would DET be foolish enough to do so? Unlikely..

https://www.si.com/nba/wizards/washington-wizards-news/washington-wizards-kyle-kuzma-sent-detroit-pistons-trade-idea

Well I believe they have enough raw cap room that fontecio and pics would work they could keep THJ if they wanted

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[gambitx777]

Pistons would need picks to take on Huerter. Also he’s having a pretty bad season and other than his first season with the Kings, he really isn’t anything special

Why would they need a pic for his contract. They are trying to win games KHJ makes sense on that team. He only has one more year so it gives them a treadable contract next year. SF is a weak spot for them so is shooting. No he's not what he was when he was 24 but he could get back there. All they trade is the corpse of THJ. KHj is only 26. He isn't a negative asset.

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The “corpse” is shooting 38 from 3 with like 5.5 attempts per game. Huerter is shooting 31 in about the same attempts per game.

Kevin is younger, but not that much different from Tim (discounting the three point struggles, one of the things he’s supposed to be good at). All this to eat up $18 million next season. I’m not saying it’s going to be a first round pick, but there’s got to be compensation for taking on that contract.

I don’t see Kevin as being worth the cost, without compensation

Kevin is on a down year but he only has one more year left on his deal. He's a career solid 3 pt shooter and he's in a slump he's 26 he's not a negative asset. Id say neutral at worst

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[closg00]

From the Tap comments re: JV:

They signed him, just so they could move him but they've been trading players for terrible deals since taking over (Dawkins/Winger). Why give up anything of value when they will just hand over good players for seemingly nothing.

Gafford, Porzingis, Deni, Tyus walks in FA. These guys are so bad.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278774/Wizards-Wont-Trade-Jonas-Valanciunas-For-Late-2nd-Rounders

[AFM]

Yeah but that commentor is also very low IQ.

[Rafael122]

To be fair, it's not like Tyus Jones has lit the world on fire, and Gafford is still Gafford meaning he's a solid player but not someone that can anchor a defense.

[gambitx777]

From the Tap comments re: JV:

They signed him, just so they could move him but they've been trading players for terrible deals since taking over (Dawkins/Winger). Why give up anything of value when they will just hand over good players for seemingly nothing.

Gafford, Porzingis, Deni, Tyus walks in FA. These guys are so bad.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278774/Wizards-Wont-Trade-Jonas-Valanciunas-For-Late-2nd-Rounders

I hate these narratives
We got good value on gafford and we got good value on deni. Zinger didn't give us any choice. And Jones don't have a market, proof in the pooding that he signed for min.

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[nate33]

From the Tap comments re: JV:

They signed him, just so they could move him but they've been trading players for terrible deals since taking over (Dawkins/Winger). Why give up anything of value when they will just hand over good players for seemingly nothing.

Gafford, Porzingis, Deni, Tyus walks in FA. These guys are so bad.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278774/Wizards-Wont-Trade-Jonas-Valanciunas-For-Late-2nd-Rounders

I hate these narratives
We got good value on gafford and we got good value on deni. Zinger didn't give us any choice. And Jones don't have a market, proof in the pooding that he signed for min.

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We got fair value for Gafford, no complaints there.

I'm still not convinced we got good value for Deni. Even if Carrington turns out to be a good pick relative to this draft class, I think it's entirely possible that he still won't be that good of a player. It was a terrible draft. Time well tell, but my opinion at the time of the trade and now, half-a-season after the trade, was that the trade returned insufficient value. I would much rather have kept Deni.

We should have traded Tyus midseason last year. Rumors were that Orlando wanted him and would have traded a couple of SRP's. Instead we got nothing. It's not a huge loss or anything. I'm not suggesting he was worth a FRP or anything, but we missed the opportunity to sell high. It was a minor mistake by the front office. Nobody's perfect. I'm not too mad about it.

The Porzingis trade was the biggest failure IMO. We had a lot more leverage but we refused to use it. Porzingis said he would opt out, but the only potential free agent suitor was Detroit. I would have called his bluff and forced Boston to include some picks before facilitating that trade. Worst case scenario is that Porzingis walked and we don't land Tyus Jones either. Best case scenario is Boston caves and coughs up at least one FRP, if not two. That's a hand I would have played.

[Chuck Everett]

Yeah but that commentor is also very low IQ.

Truth hurts I guess. Just because I don't like your front office doesn't make me low IQ. Shameful post.

[payitforward]

nate --
we couldn't have "forced Boston to include some picks," although we might have pressured them to do so. In fact... we may have tried to do that. Yet, we may well have had concrete indications, knowledge even, that KP was going to leave no matter what.

In any situation, it's possible to imagine an alternative outcome, but that doesn't mean it was actually available. In this case, your hypothesis requires KP & his agent to have been bluffing. "They said they were going to opt out, but they didn't really mean it."

TBH I doubt that kind of thing happens much. Everyone wants a good deal, obviously, but I doubt there's a whole lot of out and out lying going on. These guys have to deal with one another every day. If you get a rep as a liar, it makes that difficult. Not to mention makes it more difficult to get the next gig.

I'm not stating any absolutes here. This is a discussion not an argument, & I have no more concrete info than you -- just relying on my experience.

[payitforward]

double...

[payitforward]

Yeah but that commentor is also very low IQ.

Truth hurts I guess. Just because I don't like your front office doesn't make me low IQ. Shameful post.

You are not in possession of the "truth," sorry.
Of course you have a right to your opinion, & even if it turns out to be wrong, that doesn't mean you are a dummy.

OTOH, I'd say the reaction was to your ungrounded judgment. If you "don't like" our FO, I imagine there's something behind the fact.

You didn't go into that; instead you just issued an "ex cathedra" pronouncement. It's not shameful to see that as a stupid thing to do.

Oh, & finally, I'd say this...

...they've been trading players for terrible deals since taking over (Dawkins/Winger). Why give up anything of value when they will just hand over good players for seemingly nothing.

Gafford, Porzingis, Deni, Tyus walks in FA. These guys are so bad.

is kind of dumb. & uninformed.

[Chuck Everett]

Yeah but that commentor is also very low IQ.

Truth hurts I guess. Just because I don't like your front office doesn't make me low IQ. Shameful post.

You are not in possession of the "truth," sorry.
Of course you have a right to your opinion, & even if it turns out to be wrong, that doesn't mean you are a dummy.

OTOH, I'd say the reaction was to your ungrounded judgment. If you "don't like" our FO, I imagine there's something behind the fact.

You didn't go into that; instead you just issued an "ex cathedra" pronouncement. It's not shameful to see that as a stupid thing to do.

Oh, & finally, I'd say this...

...they've been trading players for terrible deals since taking over (Dawkins/Winger). Why give up anything of value when they will just hand over good players for seemingly nothing.

Gafford, Porzingis, Deni, Tyus walks in FA. These guys are so bad.

is kind of dumb. & uninformed.

So ultimately you agree with the moves made by this front office since taking over for Sheppard and you like the direction of where the team is going?

Where is the optimism coming from?

Not liking your front office is basically synonymous with them not doing a good job.

[Tyrone Messby]

Just chiming in to say it’s hilarious Tyus took over the starting role from Beal

[nate33]

nate --
we couldn't have "forced Boston to include some picks," although we might have pressured them to do so. In fact... we may have tried to do that. Yet, we may well have had concrete indications, knowledge even, that KP was going to leave no matter what.

In any situation, it's possible to imagine an alternative outcome, but that doesn't mean it was actually available. In this case, your hypothesis requires KP & his agent to have been bluffing. "They said they were going to opt out, but they didn't really mean it."

TBH I doubt that kind of thing happens much. Everyone wants a good deal, obviously, but I doubt there's a whole lot of out and out lying going on. These guys have to deal with one another every day. If you get a rep as a liar, it makes that difficult. Not to mention makes it more difficult to get the next gig.

I'm not stating any absolutes here. This is a discussion not an argument, & I have no more concrete info than you -- just relying on my experience.

Three outcomes were possible:
1. Make the trade as is, and get Tyus Jones back (on a one-year contract)
2. Refuse the trade as proposed and demand we get back a FRP. Boston tells us to pound sand. We don't get Tyus Jones. Porzingis moves to Detroit.
3. Refuse the trade as proposed and demand we get back a FRP. Boston agrees.

I'm saying that I'd go for Outcome #3. And if the end result was that we ended up with Outcome #2 instead of Outcome #1, I'd have slept easily at night, knowing that I went for the best deal. (Also, Porzingis going to Detroit would have eliminated them as a tank competitor last year.)

[closg00]

nate --
we couldn't have "forced Boston to include some picks," although we might have pressured them to do so. In fact... we may have tried to do that. Yet, we may well have had concrete indications, knowledge even, that KP was going to leave no matter what.

In any situation, it's possible to imagine an alternative outcome, but that doesn't mean it was actually available. In this case, your hypothesis requires KP & his agent to have been bluffing. "They said they were going to opt out, but they didn't really mean it."

TBH I doubt that kind of thing happens much. Everyone wants a good deal, obviously, but I doubt there's a whole lot of out and out lying going on. These guys have to deal with one another every day. If you get a rep as a liar, it makes that difficult. Not to mention makes it more difficult to get the next gig.

I'm not stating any absolutes here. This is a discussion not an argument, & I have no more concrete info than you -- just relying on my experience.

Three outcomes were possible:
1. Make the trade as is, and get Tyus Jones back (on a one-year contract)
2. Refuse the trade as proposed and demand we get back a FRP. Boston tells us to pound sand. We don't get Tyus Jones. Porzingis moves to Detroit.
3. Refuse the trade as proposed and demand we get back a FRP. Boston agrees.

I'm saying that I'd go for Outcome #3. And if the end result was that we ended up with Outcome #2 instead of Outcome #1, I'd have slept easily at night, knowing that I went for the best deal. (Also, Porzingis going to Detroit would have eliminated them as a tank competitor last year.)

Concur, and I would bet my house that Boston would have agreed

[AFM]

Yeah but that commentor is also very low IQ.

Truth hurts I guess. Just because I don't like your front office doesn't make me low IQ. Shameful post.

Nothing shameful about it. You should focus on being less sensitive. You said "these guys are so bad" but didn't explain why. What would you have done instead?

edit- I'm being a dick and for that I apologize.