Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[mdenny]

For someone his size he doesn't get a whole lot of FT attempts. It would be nice to see him get to the line more. It'll even help his 3pt shooting to some degree.

If we had a stretch big, shooters at the PG and SG position (Dick and IQ have been BAD) I could see an aggressive Barnes getting 25+ a game.

I think he sees it as important and is actively trying to draw fouls but isn't very good at it. Maybe he'll get better at it with time.

I think we can be optimistic about this. It's one of the most "acquired skills" in the nba in that it is SPECIFIC to nba gameplay.

In short....he has to learn to jump into contact (which doesn't work the same in any other league he's played in).

Very few young players are good at this specific skill. So this is one thing that we should be optimistic about imo.

The sulking and selfish fixation on his performance regardless of team performance is an entirely different matter imo. A much bigger concern.

Fact is....it doesn't matter what the score is. If his stats are good he is bouncy and happy. If he stats aren't good he is pouty and sluggish.

Bosh wasn't like that. Demar wasn't like that.

[RoteSchroder]

One obvious example is SGA - scored 20+ points on 3 losing seasons in a row, including 2 seasons below 25 wins. OKC are contenders now

Its called rebuilding and development…something Raptors fans have no patience for

Meanwhile it's the same people that think replicating the Kawhi trade into a chip is a reliable method to winning.

More like it's the same ppl repeating the same devoid of maths argument: "why didn't we sacrifice the development of every player we currently have so that we'd have a 1 in 10 chance to get wemby".

"We should sit players who are performing well and fake injuries for young developing players so that we can have a 1 in 10 chance to get Wemby".

It's devoid of any sense in terms of actual team management.

That seems like a strawman..trade the FVV/Siakam/OG core for picks and tanking/developing seems like a fair strategy rather than doubling down and trading for Poeltl.

In fact, it’s pretty much what we’re doing right now. The tank would be even easier if OG was only traded for picks rather than IQ/RJ.

At the time, the only player we needed to develop was Scottie, who is experiencing bumpy growth pains on a bad and often injured roster anyways. Also pretty sure we wouldn’t have needed to fake injuries for our young players (Flynn, Precious, Banton) considering they would be the tank leaders.

[mdenny]

Meanwhile it's the same people that think replicating the Kawhi trade into a chip is a reliable method to winning.

More like it's the same ppl repeating the same devoid of maths argument: "why didn't we sacrifice the development of every player we currently have so that we'd have a 1 in 10 chance to get wemby".

"We should sit players who are performing well and fake injuries for young developing players so that we can have a 1 in 10 chance to get Wemby".

It's devoid of any sense in terms of actual team management.

That seems like a strawman..trade the FVV/Siakam/OG core for picks and tanking/developing seems like a fair strategy rather than doubling down and trading for Poeltl.

In fact, it’s pretty much what we’re doing right now. The tank would be even easier if OG was only traded for picks rather than IQ/RJ.

At the time, the only player we needed to develop was Scottie, who is experiencing bumpy growth pains on a bad and often injured roster anyways. Also pretty sure we wouldn’t have needed to fake injuries for our young players (Flynn, Precious, Banton) considering they would be the tank leaders.

Suppose we didn't trade for poetl and got what?

Let's go out on a limb and assume in the absence of the Poetl trade....we would've picked 8th and 6th in the next two drafts instead of picking Dick and Walter.

So we'd have Jarace Walker instead of Gradey Dick and we'd have Ron Holland II instead of Jakobe Walter.

Have the seas parted ways because of this difference?

Talk about a strawman. The whole tank advocate position is BUILT on straw-logic. Their entire argument is based SOLELY on the assumption that with the picks we WOULD'VE had....we would have picked THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER as perceived NOW (as opposed to during the actual draft).

The whole thing is ridiculous tbh. Getting to the point that we should just make fun of the childish, scratchnwin logic of tankers.

[PushDaRock]

Correct, guess I could have worded it better but certainly didn't expect it to be taken that way as there's obviously countless examples of Superstars that have played on bad teams before winning championships.

It was crazy how people were spinning what you said in the other direction Literally was naming off superstars who didn't make the playoffs early on in their careers. 20 PPG is nice, but to win 20 PPG needs to be done even in an efficient matter, no matter how bad the team is around you, and Scottie isnt there yet, and quite frankly to be worried with the way he has been playing in year 4 is fair. Scottie deserves all the criticism coming his way.

Spinning? Literally took what he said, word for word, and provided an obvious example to show how trash that take was

No spinning unless you are illiterate!

You seem really upset, I apologize if I offended you with my trash take.

[Scase]

One obvious example is SGA - scored 20+ points on 3 losing seasons in a row, including 2 seasons below 25 wins. OKC are contenders now

Its called rebuilding and development…something Raptors fans have no patience for

Meanwhile it's the same people that think replicating the Kawhi trade into a chip is a reliable method to winning.

More like it's the same ppl repeating the same devoid of maths argument: "why didn't we sacrifice the development of every player we currently have so that we'd have a 1 in 10 chance to get wemby".

"We should sit players who are performing well and fake injuries for young developing players so that we can have a 1 in 10 chance to get Wemby".

It's devoid of any sense in terms of actual team management.

Yeah man, otherwise we might have a team with 9 wins halfway through January. What a great decision. How you can say **** like this WITH the benefit of hindsight is unreal.

"Hey guys, you know that thing that massively failed, and led to us having a 25 win season, without even having a pick, and then the next season we don't even have double digit wins damn near halfway through the season? Yeah man, totally dodged that bullet."

[PushDaRock]

For someone his size he doesn't get a whole lot of FT attempts. It would be nice to see him get to the line more. It'll even help his 3pt shooting to some degree.

If we had a stretch big, shooters at the PG and SG position (Dick and IQ have been BAD) I could see an aggressive Barnes getting 25+ a game.

I think he sees it as important and is actively trying to draw fouls but isn't very good at it. Maybe he'll get better at it with time.

I think we can be optimistic about this. It's one of the most "acquired skills" in the nba in that it is SPECIFIC to nba gameplay.

In short....he has to learn to jump into contact (which doesn't work the same in any other league he's played in).

Very few young players are good at this specific skill. So this is one thing that we should be optimistic about imo.

The sulking and selfish fixation on his performance regardless of team performance is an entirely different matter imo. A much bigger concern.

Fact is....it doesn't matter what the score is. If his stats are good he is bouncy and happy. If he stats aren't good he is pouty and sluggish.

Bosh wasn't like that. Demar wasn't like that.

He was saying all the right things in the off season, so it's been a bit disappointing to see the body language and maturity issues haven't gotten any better. Winning obviously fixes a lot of things though and that kind of stuff matters a lot less when you're winning games.

[Thaddy]

More like it's the same ppl repeating the same devoid of maths argument: "why didn't we sacrifice the development of every player we currently have so that we'd have a 1 in 10 chance to get wemby".

"We should sit players who are performing well and fake injuries for young developing players so that we can have a 1 in 10 chance to get Wemby".

It's devoid of any sense in terms of actual team management.

That seems like a strawman..trade the FVV/Siakam/OG core for picks and tanking/developing seems like a fair strategy rather than doubling down and trading for Poeltl.

In fact, it’s pretty much what we’re doing right now. The tank would be even easier if OG was only traded for picks rather than IQ/RJ.

At the time, the only player we needed to develop was Scottie, who is experiencing bumpy growth pains on a bad and often injured roster anyways. Also pretty sure we wouldn’t have needed to fake injuries for our young players (Flynn, Precious, Banton) considering they would be the tank leaders.

Suppose we didn't trade for poetl and got what?

Let's go out on a limb and assume in the absence of the Poetl trade....we would've picked 8th and 6th in the next two drafts instead of picking Dick and Walter.

So we'd have Jarace Walker instead of Gradey Dick and we'd have Ron Holland II instead of Jakobe Walter.

Have the seas parted ways because of this difference?

Talk about a strawman. The whole tank advocate position is BUILT on straw-logic. Their entire argument is based SOLELY on the assumption that with the picks we WOULD'VE had....we would have picked THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER as perceived NOW (as opposed to during the actual draft).

The whole thing is ridiculous tbh. Getting to the point that we should just make fun of the childish, scratchnwin logic of tankers.

"Got what?" We would likely have gotten a 1st round pick and a prospect for each of FVV, Siakam, and OG. The Raps front office is pretty good at making picks.

Holland isn't a Masai type of pick we were rumoured to be interested in Cason Wallace and Salaun, and other players actually worth developing like the Thompson twins.

There is a realistic chance we would have been like the current day Rockets:

Clingan
Barnes
Thompson
(Siakam Trade)
(OG Trade)

Sixth man: (Fred Trade) & 6 1st rounders coming over the next 3 years

[Reeko]

For someone his size he doesn't get a whole lot of FT attempts. It would be nice to see him get to the line more. It'll even help his 3pt shooting to some degree.

If we had a stretch big, shooters at the PG and SG position (Dick and IQ have been BAD) I could see an aggressive Barnes getting 25+ a game.

I think he sees it as important and is actively trying to draw fouls but isn't very good at it. Maybe he'll get better at it with time.

I think we can be optimistic about this. It's one of the most "acquired skills" in the nba in that it is SPECIFIC to nba gameplay.

In short....he has to learn to jump into contact (which doesn't work the same in any other league he's played in).

Very few young players are good at this specific skill. So this is one thing that we should be optimistic about imo.

The sulking and selfish fixation on his performance regardless of team performance is an entirely different matter imo. A much bigger concern.

Fact is....it doesn't matter what the score is. If his stats are good he is bouncy and happy. If he stats aren't good he is pouty and sluggish.

Bosh wasn't like that. Demar wasn't like that.

Hopefully one day he gets to the point where, when he doesn't play well, he's mature enough to just point at each ref and call them bitches at the end of the game.

[mdenny]

Meanwhile it's the same people that think replicating the Kawhi trade into a chip is a reliable method to winning.

More like it's the same ppl repeating the same devoid of maths argument: "why didn't we sacrifice the development of every player we currently have so that we'd have a 1 in 10 chance to get wemby".

"We should sit players who are performing well and fake injuries for young developing players so that we can have a 1 in 10 chance to get Wemby".

It's devoid of any sense in terms of actual team management.

Yeah man, otherwise we might have a team with 9 wins halfway through January. What a great decision. How you can say **** like this WITH the benefit of hindsight is unreal.

"Hey guys, you know that thing that massively failed, and led to us having a 25 win season, without even having a pick, and then the next season we don't even have double digit wins damn near halfway through the season? Yeah man, totally dodged that bullet."

What in your mind is the "thing that massively failed"?

[mdenny]

I think he sees it as important and is actively trying to draw fouls but isn't very good at it. Maybe he'll get better at it with time.

I think we can be optimistic about this. It's one of the most "acquired skills" in the nba in that it is SPECIFIC to nba gameplay.

In short....he has to learn to jump into contact (which doesn't work the same in any other league he's played in).

Very few young players are good at this specific skill. So this is one thing that we should be optimistic about imo.

The sulking and selfish fixation on his performance regardless of team performance is an entirely different matter imo. A much bigger concern.

Fact is....it doesn't matter what the score is. If his stats are good he is bouncy and happy. If he stats aren't good he is pouty and sluggish.

Bosh wasn't like that. Demar wasn't like that.

Hopefully one day he gets to the point where, when he doesn't play well, he's mature enough to just point at each ref and call them bitches at the end of the game.

Reeko. The man who prioritizes game 33 of the Houston Rockets season over game 6 of the raptors championship.

We no hear you reeko.

Viking yelp and yowww

[RoteSchroder]

More like it's the same ppl repeating the same devoid of maths argument: "why didn't we sacrifice the development of every player we currently have so that we'd have a 1 in 10 chance to get wemby".

"We should sit players who are performing well and fake injuries for young developing players so that we can have a 1 in 10 chance to get Wemby".

It's devoid of any sense in terms of actual team management.

That seems like a strawman..trade the FVV/Siakam/OG core for picks and tanking/developing seems like a fair strategy rather than doubling down and trading for Poeltl.

In fact, it’s pretty much what we’re doing right now. The tank would be even easier if OG was only traded for picks rather than IQ/RJ.

At the time, the only player we needed to develop was Scottie, who is experiencing bumpy growth pains on a bad and often injured roster anyways. Also pretty sure we wouldn’t have needed to fake injuries for our young players (Flynn, Precious, Banton) considering they would be the tank leaders.

Suppose we didn't trade for poetl and got what?

Let's go out on a limb and assume in the absence of the Poetl trade....we would've picked 8th and 6th in the next two drafts instead of picking Dick and Walter.

So we'd have Jarace Walker instead of Gradey Dick and we'd have Ron Holland II instead of Jakobe Walter.

Have the seas parted ways because of this difference?

Talk about a strawman. The whole tank advocate position is BUILT on straw-logic. Their entire argument is based SOLELY on the assumption that with the picks we WOULD'VE had....we would have picked THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER as perceived NOW (as opposed to during the actual draft).

The whole thing is ridiculous tbh. Getting to the point that we should just make fun of the childish, scratchnwin logic of tankers.

Aren’t you changing the goalpost? I was responding to your quote, not sure why you completely changed the subject. Answer these questions specifically:

1) who’s development do we sacrifice with an earlier rebuild where we trade FVV/Siakam/OG instead of getting Poeltl?

2) which players would we sit or fake injuries for in order to tank?

In terms of your new arguments, we don’t know where we would have ended up in the last two years, but Gradey was in my top 10 anyhow..mainly cause we were starved of shooting. Jury’s still out on how things turn out, he’s not guaranteed to be a top 10 guy from his class just quite yet.

Edey, Clingan, Castle were my 3 top choices if we got a top 6. That’s just me personally, but I also really like the early 2025 2nd rounder..possibly more than the 2024 1st, lmao. There are like 5 players I want in that range

[mdenny]

That seems like a strawman..trade the FVV/Siakam/OG core for picks and tanking/developing seems like a fair strategy rather than doubling down and trading for Poeltl.

In fact, it’s pretty much what we’re doing right now. The tank would be even easier if OG was only traded for picks rather than IQ/RJ.

At the time, the only player we needed to develop was Scottie, who is experiencing bumpy growth pains on a bad and often injured roster anyways. Also pretty sure we wouldn’t have needed to fake injuries for our young players (Flynn, Precious, Banton) considering they would be the tank leaders.

Suppose we didn't trade for poetl and got what?

Let's go out on a limb and assume in the absence of the Poetl trade....we would've picked 8th and 6th in the next two drafts instead of picking Dick and Walter.

So we'd have Jarace Walker instead of Gradey Dick and we'd have Ron Holland II instead of Jakobe Walter.

Have the seas parted ways because of this difference?

Talk about a strawman. The whole tank advocate position is BUILT on straw-logic. Their entire argument is based SOLELY on the assumption that with the picks we WOULD'VE had....we would have picked THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER as perceived NOW (as opposed to during the actual draft).

The whole thing is ridiculous tbh. Getting to the point that we should just make fun of the childish, scratchnwin logic of tankers.

Aren’t you changing the goalpost? I was responding to your quote, not sure why you completely changed the subject. Answer these questions specifically:

1) who’s development do we sacrifice with an earlier rebuild where we trade FVV/Siakam/OG instead of getting Poeltl?

2) which players would we sit or fake injuries for in order to tank?

In terms of your new arguments, we don’t know where we would have ended up in the last two years, but Gradey was in my top 10 anyhow..mainly cause we were starved of shooting. Jury’s still out on how things turn out, he’s not guaranteed to be a top 10 guy from his class just quite yet.

Edey, Clingan, Castle were my 3 top choices if we got a top 6. That’s just me personally, but I also really like the early 2025 2nd rounder..possibly more than the 2024 1st, lmao. There are like 5 players I want in that range

I can't relate. I enjoy watching men play sports. I am not interested in boys. I think it's weird that tankers are fixated on teenage boys.

Warned: Baiting

[mdenny]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

[HumbleRen]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

Brother i’d sacrifice your lineage for a shot at Wemby in the draft.

We are not the same.

[dTox]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

You are one very weird dude. I think it's time you stop posting

[RoteSchroder]

Suppose we didn't trade for poetl and got what?

Let's go out on a limb and assume in the absence of the Poetl trade....we would've picked 8th and 6th in the next two drafts instead of picking Dick and Walter.

So we'd have Jarace Walker instead of Gradey Dick and we'd have Ron Holland II instead of Jakobe Walter.

Have the seas parted ways because of this difference?

Talk about a strawman. The whole tank advocate position is BUILT on straw-logic. Their entire argument is based SOLELY on the assumption that with the picks we WOULD'VE had....we would have picked THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER as perceived NOW (as opposed to during the actual draft).

The whole thing is ridiculous tbh. Getting to the point that we should just make fun of the childish, scratchnwin logic of tankers.

Aren’t you changing the goalpost? I was responding to your quote, not sure why you completely changed the subject. Answer these questions specifically:

1) who’s development do we sacrifice with an earlier rebuild where we trade FVV/Siakam/OG instead of getting Poeltl?

2) which players would we sit or fake injuries for in order to tank?

In terms of your new arguments, we don’t know where we would have ended up in the last two years, but Gradey was in my top 10 anyhow..mainly cause we were starved of shooting. Jury’s still out on how things turn out, he’s not guaranteed to be a top 10 guy from his class just quite yet.

Edey, Clingan, Castle were my 3 top choices if we got a top 6. That’s just me personally, but I also really like the early 2025 2nd rounder..possibly more than the 2024 1st, lmao. There are like 5 players I want in that range

I can't relate. I enjoy watching men play sports. I am not interested in boys. I think it's weird that tankers are fixated on teenage boys.

Another goalpost change, a very weird and disturbing one at that. So I guess you hate Masai now that he’s traded or lost our “men”?

[Duffman100]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

This is weird and not welcome here, please adjust your posting.

[Scase]

I'm gonna say this out loud.

If you are over the age of the 30 and you are worshipping a teenage athletic prospect....you are suspect.

Ain't no grown man should ever be THAT invested in a teenager. Not ever. Where there is smoke there is fire. Something is wrong in any grown man who worships teenage boys.

You are one very weird dude. I think it's time you stop posting

This thread certainly took a turn.

I think he sees it as important and is actively trying to draw fouls but isn't very good at it. Maybe he'll get better at it with time.

I think we can be optimistic about this. It's one of the most "acquired skills" in the nba in that it is SPECIFIC to nba gameplay.

In short....he has to learn to jump into contact (which doesn't work the same in any other league he's played in).

Very few young players are good at this specific skill. So this is one thing that we should be optimistic about imo.

The sulking and selfish fixation on his performance regardless of team performance is an entirely different matter imo. A much bigger concern.

Fact is....it doesn't matter what the score is. If his stats are good he is bouncy and happy. If he stats aren't good he is pouty and sluggish.

Bosh wasn't like that. Demar wasn't like that.

Hopefully one day he gets to the point where, when he doesn't play well, he's mature enough to just point at each ref and call them bitches at the end of the game.

Just think about all the things he can afford to say in a presser when his rookie max kicks in.

[Tha Cynic]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

[tsherkin]

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so.

So this is actually the crux of worry about him. Shooting isn't usually an area where guys who aren't very good get a lot better unless they start shaping into catch-and-shoot guys in the corner, and even less so when they have struggles at the FT line. It happens here and there, but it's far more common that they don't really develop. And Scottie has a need for enough development there that we have come up against his ceiling in a #1 role without some major and unlikely changes. So pivoting into looking at him as a #2 or a #3 is much more realistic at this phase of his career. And that means requiring someone better.

"A lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so" seems... off-base. Guys who take a big leap usually do it pretty early. Right now, we're hoping he Demar DeRozan's his way forward, and that's a long investment for only so much pay-off. Obviously, that's strictly on the offensive end. He's shown us development in a bunch of different areas and he's shown us value enough that it's clear he could be useful to us going forward. But "simply getting better at shooting" isn't so simple at all, as it happens.

There's hope, to be sure, but history isn't on our side and there is a reason behind skepticism. Should be interesting to see how he does against Boston tonight.