Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[YogurtProducer]

WTF happened here

[ForeverTFC]

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so.

So this is actually the crux of worry about him. Shooting isn't usually an area where guys who aren't very good get a lot better unless they start shaping into catch-and-shoot guys in the corner, and even less so when they have struggles at the FT line. It happens here and there, but it's far more common that they don't really develop. And Scottie has a need for enough development there that we have come up against his ceiling in a #1 role without some major and unlikely changes. So pivoting into looking at him as a #2 or a #3 is much more realistic at this phase of his career. And that means requiring someone better.

"A lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so" seems... off-base. Guys who take a big leap usually do it pretty early. Right now, we're hoping he Demar DeRozan's his way forward, and that's a long investment for only so much pay-off. Obviously, that's strictly on the offensive end. He's shown us development in a bunch of different areas and he's shown us value enough that it's clear he could be useful to us going forward. But "simply getting better at shooting" isn't so simple at all, as it happens.

There's hope, to be sure, but history isn't on our side and there is a reason behind skepticism. Should be interesting to see how he does against Boston tonight.

Well said.

Absent in the "Scottie needs to shoot pull-up 3s to take the next step" narrative is how unlikely it is that he can do so effectively. Could it happen? Sure. But it's not something anyone in the FO or the fanbase should be betting on at this point. With that said, I don't think that means his ceiling is set and as I've argued here, I hate the fact that we're not focused on developing other parts of his game that he has a better chance of reaching.

[Raps in 4]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

[Vampirate]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

I have a hunch that if the 1st half of last season were skewing the results positively, the first half of this season could be skewing the results negatively.

But time will tell.

[Boogie!]

We make open 3s we look half decent r

[Boogie!]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

Exactly how I feel. I’m not sure why people continue to try to cope with excuses instead of just accepting reality.

[PushDaRock]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

Key difference would be the the track record. Scottie has never been league average in efficiency even in a lesser offensive role. Jalen Williams was at 61 TS% his first 2 years in the league, which probably makes it more likely that his efficiency will bounce back at some point.

[Tha Cynic]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

Cool, but I'm watching basketball for entertainment, and these are humans rather than robots, so I'll remain hopeful that he gets better and improves his shooting before he reaches his prime. Maybe he doesn't follow the path of others. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

[Tha Cynic]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

Exactly how I feel. I’m not sure why people continue to try to cope with excuses instead of just accepting reality.

Why would anyone need to cope with anything related to basketball. Not everyone works in the industry lol

[RoteSchroder]

LOL so i see mdenny decided it was time to make another appearance in here to troll.

Jalen Williams is kind of having a similar season to Scottie Barnes if not worse and he's someone who used to be talked about a ton here. I think both players will do better as the season goes on and i expect them to take bigger steps next season.

With Scottie Barnes, simply getting better at shooting with catapult him into the top part of the league in a lot of areas, and that's something that is achievable as you get older so i think there's a lot of hope that he will take a big leap in the next year or so. That's why this season is great as he's trying a lot of things without the protection of a Pascal Siakam drawing defenses. Sometimes guys like him you have to look a big outside the box from the usual stat projections/

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

Exactly how I feel. I’m not sure why people continue to try to cope with excuses instead of just accepting reality.

Technically, I think his shooting has improved a bit, just not where we want it to be

His mid-range pull-ups have improved the most ~40% on 6+ attempts per game..drastically different than his previous seasons

In terms of other shots, the type of shots he takes is a bit more diversified now, he's just not good at it. Catch and shoot 3's need improvement (was better last year). Imo, it'll take a few more years, but shooting progresses slow for some players (see Kidd or some other big men). I don't think it's a Ben Simmons, Giannis, Derozan situation

[Tha Cynic]

The problem is he's in year 4 and his shooting has not improved. I've been hopeful, but that hope is starting to dry up.

Exactly how I feel. I’m not sure why people continue to try to cope with excuses instead of just accepting reality.

Technically, I think his shooting has improved a bit, just not where we want it to be

His mid-range pull-ups have improved the most ~40% on 6+ attempts per game..drastically different than his previous seasons

In terms of other shots, the type of shots he takes is a bit more diversified now, he's just not good at it. Catch and shoot 3's need improvement (was better last year). Imo, it'll take a few more years, but shooting progresses slow for some players (see Kidd or some other big men). I don't think it's a Ben Simmons, Giannis, Derozan situation

Exactly how I feel. The type of shots he's taking aren't typical of the type of shots players who stagnate take. He's continuing to take them and his midrange has gotten better. Like I said, if he stagnates for 10 years, so be it, but I don't see it. I think he's going to improve a lot.

[HangTime]

Think about it, right now, it's about trying to increase others trade values.
Scottie's knows it, so he's playing a lesser role, more connective role.

This first half vs Boston is Kind of the way they want Mogbo to play,
so Socttie's trying to teach with this film.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Good game tonight by Barnes!

[Reeko]

18/9/3 with 2 blocks and 1 steal from Barnes, on 50/20/50 splits. His mid range game is becoming the weapon that I thought it could eventually be when he was a rookie. He's not a good 3 point shooter, and maybe he never will be, but he's good enough to where he's a threat to keep defenses somewhat honest. He gets into the middle and defenses have to either stay at home and let him have his way with his defender one on one or collapse on him and let him kick out to shooters or pass to cutters.

At one point after he hit a jumper Boogie said "I can't believe he only has 14 points" which I took to mean it felt like he had scored more. It was true, because he had scored a loud 14 points. A lot of guys who are scorers just go about the game accumulating points over the course of the game and when you look up at the end of the game they've got 27 points and you say to yourself "Damn I didn't even realize he had scored so many points", they just scored in the flow of the game but it doesn't really feel all that impactful. Scottie's scoring was loud tonight because he was hitting shots at key moments of the game, when the team really needed them. It's not something that everyone can do, and it's not something tangible that you can point to, you just know it when you see it.

[XTC]

Scottie is pretty unique if you look at his game as a whole and don't get disappointed that he's not a true scorer.

On a good team he's a guy who can give you 20/8/6 and 3 stocks. If he can up his efficiency to a TS of around 60% I can live with that moving forward. I think the biggest thing moving forward from Barnes is to improve his body language, and not pout when things are not going his way.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie is pretty unique if you look at his game as a whole and don't get disappointed that he's not a true scorer.

On a good team he's a guy who can give you 20/8/6 and 3 stocks. If he can up his efficiency to a TS of around 60% I can live with that moving forward. I think the biggest thing moving forward from Barnes is to improve his body language, and not pout when things are not going his way.

If he’s able to keep the same numbers but with 60% TS, that’s a top 20 player to me.

I’m not just sure he’ll ever be an efficient player, atleast not as a #1.

[Sidthekid87]

His defence has been **** superb the last few games.

[hype_2004]

Seems like he has fully recovered from that ankle injury, he has bounce and is moving extremely well on defense, it's night and day what you can do when healthy.

[MiamiSPX]

Perfect that mid-range, focus on D, and let's worry about the 3 later.

He's been great the last couple of games.

[tsherkin]

I have a hunch that if the 1st half of last season were skewing the results positively, the first half of this season could be skewing the results negatively.

But time will tell.

I suspect this is true. His FT% is pretty telling; he's 5, 6% worse than each of the past two seasons and he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with an artillery fusillade from 16-23 feet. Both of those things are atypical; he's normally below average but not TOTALLY useless from that range, and is typically a 77-78% FT shooter. The 3P shooting is par for the course, last season's two months were the outlier, but that's another thing entirely.

18/9/3 with 2 blocks and 1 steal from Barnes, on 50/20/50 splits. His mid range game is becoming the weapon that I thought it could eventually be when he was a rookie. He's not a good 3 point shooter, and maybe he never will be, but he's good enough to where he's a threat to keep defenses somewhat honest. He gets into the middle and defenses have to either stay at home and let him have his way with his defender one on one or collapse on him and let him kick out to shooters or pass to cutters.

At one point after he hit a jumper Boogie said "I can't believe he only has 14 points" which I took to mean it felt like he had scored more. It was true, because he had scored a loud 14 points. A lot of guys who are scorers just go about the game accumulating points over the course of the game and when you look up at the end of the game they've got 27 points and you say to yourself "Damn I didn't even realize he had scored so many points", they just scored in the flow of the game but it doesn't really feel all that impactful. Scottie's scoring was loud tonight because he was hitting shots at key moments of the game, when the team really needed them. It's not something that everyone can do, and it's not something tangible that you can point to, you just know it when you see it.

Passive in the first, ass in the second quiet in the third, big in the fourth. An interesting arc across the game. Quiet on the boards for him, but Boucher and Poeltl, Bruce Brown and RJ were all crushing it, so I suspect it was just that. We smashed Boston on the glass.

Loved that he was killing it from the right elbow/top half of the key. Don't love how little he got to the rim or how few fouls he drew, but such is life. Decent game overall. Nothing spectacular, but it ended well, bunch of positives to take away.