2024-2025 Regular Season Game 42: Orlando Magic (23-18) at Milwaukee Bucks (21-17) 8:00PM

[SOUL]

out there playing the wrong way.

It's one game, every team has a stinker.

My argument is fact based

Your argument is that Mosley is coaching the team to play the wrong way and yet we're fighting for home court advantage in the playoffs. I see no facts.

Something isn't adding up

I agree.

[Idiosyncratic]

Just got around to watching the game, man they looked really slow. Paolo especially was in like slow motion with the highest dribble I have ever seen. They were just taking it from him with ease. Wonder if they are finally getting sick like it seems everyone else has been.

Chalk it up and move on.

[eyriq]

Just got around to watching the game, man they looked really slow. Paolo especially was in like slow motion with the highest dribble I have ever seen. They were just taking it from him with ease. Wonder if they are finally getting sick like it seems everyone else has been.

Chalk it up and move on.

That's what I'm telling myself

[Redick07]

No one wants to win except Jalen Suggs….

[richi_v25]

Y'all remember when we beat the 6ers, Pepperidge Farms remembers... good times. This game not so much, after the first 5 minutes it was a wrap. Oh well, next!

[Husky1]

This lack of shooting year in year out is squarely on the front office now. Every time they sign or draft a "shooter" they are deplorable at shooting. What gives!

[KillMonger]

Lethargic, sloppy, looked sped up.... Turnovers killed us, too heliocentric but even sharing the ball doesn't net anything when no one can hit shots.... Injuries always being a factor.... That being said man Im really wondering if injuries are giving the front office an excuse to keep kicking the can down the road.....every year seems to be an "evaluation year".... Used to think that take was ridiculous..... Now I'm starting to wonder

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Crazy enough...Both of you are right...

Yes, Orlando is bottom of league in shooting. The FO has neglected to build a real system, that isn't hero ball isolation horse **** from 2 total players under the age of 23. Their solution was acquiring a journeyman low volume 3&D player that changed nothing about the system. They re-signed every mediocre player that never moved the needle and ate up tradable asset value. The role players haven't stepped up and look extremely pedestrian even without a fully healthy roster and the team begging for someone to take the reigns.

Yes, Orlando is missing 80% of their players. Nobody has been healthy this season. Nobody was really on the market worth acquiring. Mosely has shown way more competence this season winning games we have ZERO business winning against better competition. The players trust him and there is a real chemistry here - dare I say an IDENTITY. Takeaways from games like this (and the next two) aren't really warranted. It really says nothing about the team as everyone is out. We wont get real information out of this roster without guys being healthy.

I dont think either take is being a crazy pessimist or an extreme homer. It just is what it is.

Changes need to be made on the fringes to even out the BAD. We have yet to see development and continuity this season of the GOOD to make generalizations about what we have and havent seen yet.

[VFX]

I mean you want to tank while we are over .500 with half the team missing most of the time. And then you want to tank for Flagg like he's Wemby or Paolo. Lol

We arent tanking. It isnt an option.

That being said, Flagg is on Paolo's level. He just turned 18 and broke the ACC scoring record last weekend as a freshman.

Dont out yourself for not knowing ball. Not a good look.

Like you of all people should say anything about knowing ball. You just said Flagg is on Paolos level. Lol

Spoiler:

Cooper Flagg
PER - 28.9
BPM - 15.9
TS - 58.3%
AST% - 25.5%
REB% - 15.0%
BLK% - 4.5%
STL% - 3.0
AST:TO - 1.7:1
USG - 30.9%

Banchero
PER - 22.0
BPM - 7.9
TS - 56.6%
AST% - 12.4%
REB% - 12.6%
BLK% - 3.2%
STL% - 2.3%
AST:TO - 1.3:1
USG - 26.2%

[SOUL]

I dont think either take is being a crazy pessimist or an extreme homer. It just is what it is.

If you think popping in only to say how we need to fire the coach or how bad this team is (even when healthy) isn't a bad take, then I don't know what to say lol.

There's a reason I can accept actual criticism to getting better around the edges, being more pro-active, preferring certain players playing, etc... then there's actual delusion of thinking the coach is ruining this team and that this team isn't good.

Imagine watching the last 15 years of Magic basketball and thinking THIS product is the bad one.

[Redwood]

out there playing the wrong way.

It's one game, every team has a stinker.

My argument is fact based

Your argument is that Mosley is coaching the team to play the wrong way and yet we're fighting for home court advantage in the playoffs. I see no facts.

Something isn't adding up

I agree.

Again, one game? You're league worst in 3pt percentage because of one game?

You aren't even worth debating.

[VFX]

I dont think either take is being a crazy pessimist or an extreme homer. It just is what it is.

If you think popping in only to say how we need to fire the coach or how bad this team is (even when healthy) isn't a bad take, then I don't know what to say lol.

There's a reason I can accept actual criticism to getting better around the edges, being more pro-active, preferring certain players playing, etc... then there's actual delusion of thinking the coach is ruining this team and that this team isn't good.

Imagine watching the last 15 years of Magic basketball and thinking THIS product is the bad one.

Well I don't certainly think this is a bad product. I think its a flawed until addressed product.
And IM the #1 Weltman hater extraordinaire.

This season is worth watching and caring about - hence the post after the 76ers win taking a step back. I wish it were more on both fronts tbh. Im surprised I even cared about watching any of these games without at least two of Paolo, Suggs, Franz.

I think Mosely is the least of this teams problem fwiw. It has more to do with personnel and making time accurate assessments and decisions tbh. None of which we will get answers to on a game to game basis.

Games like this are frustrating though because it validates how a few people have felt about their approach to acquiring players even if a ton of context is obviously missing. Its a little disingenuous to pop by though and say "Magic suck", but some use this as a vent forum and not necessarily to look for answers from other fans. But I get it.

[Redwood]

I dont think either take is being a crazy pessimist or an extreme homer. It just is what it is.

If you think popping in only to say how we need to fire the coach or how bad this team is (even when healthy) isn't a bad take, then I don't know what to say lol.

There's a reason I can accept actual criticism to getting better around the edges, being more pro-active, preferring certain players playing, etc... then there's actual delusion of thinking the coach is ruining this team and that this team isn't good.

Imagine watching the last 15 years of Magic basketball and thinking THIS product is the bad one.

As is customary with you, you get it wrong.

It's not about losing, it's about how we're losing. It's a self inflicted wound, if we're playing the right way and losing you can live with that. We aren't and that's not up for debate. Are you telling me nobody on our roster knows the fundamentals of the game? Nobody can pass? Nobody can set a basic screen? Our coaches don't know how to draw up plays that free guys up for an open mid range jumper? Scheme up plays for easy points in the paint?

What purpose does a coach serve if they aren't going adapt to a roster, or how the season is unfolding? Is it not their job to find a way to get easy buckets? Yes, it certainly is. Some of you live in a make believe world where tonight as an outlier, you're completely ignoring basic numbers and apparently believe the statisticians have it wrong when placing us dead last in 3pt percentage. Maybe it's a conspiracy? Are they just being mean? I got it, it must be Trumps fault! No, climate change!

This is all so goofy, we have a terrible 3pt shooting team shooting a lot of threes with a coaching staff that continues to allow it. You guys can "it's one game" me all you want, statistics prove you wrong. You're literally acting as though this IS an outlier and we're near the top of the league in 3pt shooting. Anyone who read your posts, who didn't look at a single statistic from this season, would be left with that conclusion. That I'm exaggerating and this truly was one bad game. Then they'd go look at the stats, see us in dead last (by a MASSIVE margin), and then ignore everything you say from this point forward.

You just cannot maintain any kind of credibility if you can't get yourself to admit to basic truths. With our improved defense we would be a much more difficult team to face if we would simply adapt our offense to the players that are on this roster. We won't, we refuse, and you guys never seem to run out of excuses for the people behind those decisions. If that's how you want to be, have at it, but I'm not that way. Objective facts are all that matter, not your feelings or what you want to be true. What IS true trumps it all, and what IS true is that we're a catastrophically bad 3pt shooting team to the point where it's nearing historic status, AND WE KEEP SHOOTING THEM.

Any 80's or 90's era coach would've sat these guys on the bench by now until they learned their lesson. But that's back when coaches (and players) had standards. Today we have And-1 me-first hero ball nonsense, coaches who allow it, and groupies who refuse to even acknowledge any of it is happening.

[VFX]

I dont think either take is being a crazy pessimist or an extreme homer. It just is what it is.

If you think popping in only to say how we need to fire the coach or how bad this team is (even when healthy) isn't a bad take, then I don't know what to say lol.

There's a reason I can accept actual criticism to getting better around the edges, being more pro-active, preferring certain players playing, etc... then there's actual delusion of thinking the coach is ruining this team and that this team isn't good.

Imagine watching the last 15 years of Magic basketball and thinking THIS product is the bad one.

As is customary with you, you get it wrong.

It's not about losing, it's about how we're losing. It's a self inflicted wound, if we're playing the right way and losing you can live with that. We aren't and that's not up for debate. Are you telling me nobody on our roster knows the fundamentals of the game? Nobody can pass? Nobody can set a basic screen? Our coaches don't know how to draw up plays that free guys up for an open mid range jumper? Scheme up plays for easy points in the paint?

What purpose does a coach serve if they aren't going adapt to a roster, or how the season is unfolding? Is it not their job to find a way to get easy buckets? Yes, it certainly is. Some of you live in a make believe world where tonight as an outlier, you're completely ignoring basic numbers and apparently believe the statisticians have it wrong when placing us dead last in 3pt percentage. Maybe it's a conspiracy? Are they just being mean? I got it, it must be Trumps fault! No, climate change!

This is all so goofy, we have a terrible 3pt shooting team shooting a lot of threes with a coaching staff that continues to allow it. You guys can "it's one game" me all you want, statistics prove you wrong. You're literally acting as though this IS an outlier and we're near the top of the league in 3pt shooting. Anyone who read your posts, who didn't look at a single statistic from this season, would be left with that conclusion. That I'm exaggerating and this truly was one bad game. Then they'd go look at the stats, see us in dead last (by a MASSIVE margin), and then ignore everything you say from this point forward.

You just cannot maintain any kind of credibility if you can't get yourself to admit to basic truths. With our improved defense we would be a much more difficult team to face if we would simply adapt our offense to the players that are on this roster. We won't, we refuse, and you guys never seem to run out of excuses for the people behind those decisions. If that's how you want to be, have at it, but I'm not that way. Objective facts are all that matter, not your feelings or what you want to be true. What IS true trumps it all, and what IS true is that we're a catastrophically bad 3pt shooting team to the point where it's nearing historic status, AND WE KEEP SHOOTING THEM.

Any 80's or 90's era coach would've sat these guys on the bench by now until they learned their lesson. But that's back when coaches (and players) had standards. Today we have And-1 me-first hero ball nonsense, coaches who allow it, and groupies who refuse to even acknowledge any of it is happening.

I'll meet you halfway here.

The system at 100% health isn't good offensively. Personally, I dislike the idea of having two guys that are so iso heavy that it could detract from great ball movement, spacing, etc. It screams early 90's rehash. Thats just me, but maybe they'll modernize it more down the road and Im nitpicking (probably not).

However...

We are talking about guys on rookie deals (or just coming off them) that are in a season of injury hell. Mosely is throwing **** at a wall out there and hoping something sticks with the dregs of the rest of this roster. They won on Sunday against a healthier Sixers team. Trevelin Queen and Caleb Houstan played as many minutes as Paolo Banchero tonight. Isaac is relegated to 15 minutes after playing 30 on Sunday. Etc. Mosely didn't really have many options tonight and the talent wasn't really there to gameplan otherwise.

There IS a fraction of context as to why guys out there tonight looked trash. This team has like 9 real NBA players on the roster, maybe less. The entire system on offense evolves around 2 guys total. The FO hasn't really acknowledged ways of molding that into a greater team construct, and maybe that isn't a priority.

[SOUL]

lol bringing up "it must be trumps fault" as an example in a basketball discussion negates any sort of debate i want to even have, i can see where you get your debating skills from as facts are clearly conditional to what your opinion is, regardless if 99 people are telling you otherwise.

i do hope we fire mosley in that case and find that 80s style hard-ass coach that gets caleb houstan to score inside and turns every single skill of our 3rd string players who would not be playing otherwise into the opposite skill because, according to you, they're some miracle worker that does that. yep, famed garbage coaches tyronn lue and spoelstra and popovich are soooo terrible for not getting more out of their teams the last few years despite the age or injuries or quality of talent they have on their rosters, if they just screamed at them and benched them as discipline (you know, despite having like 8-9 active players), it would work!!

why didnt anyone think of that?! golly, the coach that helped the team jump 13 wins every year and had an even better start than last year with a 10x more injured team is soooooo bad!!!

[GelbeWand09]

Is KCP the most overrated free agent signing for us? He’s pretty forgettable on the court minus all the missed shots.

he's slightly overpaid but I think we all knew that. I also think he'll look better with the real starting lineup. That said, it was unfortunate that there wasn't a legit scoring guard available with all the money we had.

KCP is a good player and makes us a little better, like Gary Harris when he was able to play last season. He is slightly overpaid. The problem is just that his player type just doesnt help us as much as other playertypes would even if we are healthy and him shooting his normal %. Because even than he is a low volume 3&D guy who solves almost none of our problems, just improves us slightly at things we are already good at. He doesn't add enough shooting even in his best form because his volume is too low and the versatility of his 3s is reduced to open spot up 3s. He doesn't add the missing backcourt ballhandler. He doesn't add needed passing. Even when we are healthy he's gonna be another reason why we gonna end up in iso ball, were all the role players are ball watching against the good defenses in the playoffs like it was the case against the Cavs when we aren't able to run. He doesn't add any variation or solution to our limited offense. What difference would he made VS Cleveland helping us score over 100 pts against there defense who is able to handle Paolo 1 on 1 with Mobley?

The problem for me is just that I hate all the available scoring guards and think they are losing players.

[pepe1991]

Offense is better when Franz plays / when Banchero is out. Last year and all the data proved team played better without Banchero.

Franz moves the ball and isn't ball stopper. Banchero slows down already anemic & slow offense and turns alraedy limited role players into even more limited role players, often just passing ball in last seconds where they have to hoist up impossible shot due shot clock going down.

Fact that nba champion, MVP and finals MVP is willing to grind screens for Aj Green in same game where Paolo just yells to get a ball and play endless isolation on Lopez is telling how much he has to mature to turn this team into contender and himself into ultra elite player.

Once again, in just 26 min of action, Paolo milked 32 possessions / 44% usage rate. That approach will never be winning basketball long term.

We can b*** and moan about role players, with Moe down, there isn't single offensive role player left, but our offensive rating for a season is around 108,5. In last 3 games, apon Banchero's return, it's 103 and our assist ratio is 3rd lowest in nba.

Banchero is player with elite potential, but he has to defer to team more and be ingaged in off ball action more OR become Jokić/Lebron passer. Second won't happen because he ain't that creative.

[Redwood]

lol bringing up "it must be trumps fault" as an example in a basketball discussion negates any sort of debate i want to even have, i can see where you get your debating skills from as facts are clearly conditional to what your opinion is, regardless if 99 people are telling you otherwise.

i do hope we fire mosley in that case and find that 80s style hard-ass coach that gets caleb houstan to score inside and turns every single skill of our 3rd string players who would not be playing otherwise into the opposite skill because, according to you, they're some miracle worker that does that. yep, famed garbage coaches tyronn lue and spoelstra and popovich are soooo terrible for not getting more out of their teams the last few years despite the age or injuries or quality of talent they have on their rosters, if they just screamed at them and benched them as discipline (you know, despite having like 8-9 active players), it would work!!

why didnt anyone think of that?! golly, the coach that helped the team jump 13 wins every year and had an even better start than last year with a 10x more injured team is soooooo bad!!!

All you're saying here is that this team isn't capable of actual basketball. If only you understood that.

[Orl_Magic]

Sky isn't falling. When it looks like we can't play any worse we stun everyone. Next game we should be back on track. We are consistently inconsistent lol

[Message Boar]

What a stinker.

Honestly, games like this show me why we need Suggs healthy and participating. He would not have stood for this debacle.

Oh, and Goga, too. Missed him big time last night.