Who's higher all-time: Kawhi or Harden?

[JujitsuFlip]

Give me the guy with 2 titles and 2 FMVP.

The other guy has played 5 games in the Finals total, as a bench player.

[LarsV8]

Harden will get ranked higher all-time because of longevity.

Kawhi is better at his peak. I'd rather win 1-2 titles and have to deal with 8 years of uncertainty (Kawhi) than have 10 years of never even making the finals (Harden).

Harden has been to the finals.

[RRR3]

Give me the guy with 2 titles and 2 FMVP.

The other guy has played 5 games in the Finals total, as a bench player.

Saying Harden was a bench player in 2012 is like saying Manu Ginobili was a bench player. Or Kevin McHale. He was absolutely one of the best players in the league in 2012, should have been an all-star but they never give it to non-starters.

[benson13]

In 2019, the Warriors sent James Harden fishing on his own floor after Kevin Durant got hurt. A little over a month later, Kawhi Leonard was finishing off the Warriors on their floor and winning his second title.

I have Kawhi higher without thinking twice.

[LarsV8]

The reality here is, as per the usual, people are completely unable to process circumstance.

Kawhi in place of Harden ain't doing ****, probably not even making the playoffs.

[Bank Shot]

Lean Harden. He's flopped in the playoffs a few times but he also got extremely unlucky. He peaked when KD/Steph Warriors were at their peak and if CP3's hamstring doesn't go, were talking about him as the guy who slayed the ultimate superteam. Kawhi's case is all about 2019 (don't really care about the first Finals MVP). Awesome run, but he was very meh in the regular season that year and was cooked by the end of the finals. I don't think big series against the Sixers and Bucks while playing on an absolutely loaded team is enough to offset the massive advantage Harden has in the regular season.

[JujitsuFlip]

Give me the guy with 2 titles and 2 FMVP.

The other guy has played 5 games in the Finals total, as a bench player.

Saying Harden was a bench player in 2012 is like saying Manu Ginobili was a bench player. Or Kevin McHale. He was absolutely one of the best players in the league in 2012, should have been an all-star but they never give it to non-starters.

It's irrelevant.

I am taking the guy with 2 titles vs the guy with none. Especially because he was voted best player in both of his wins.

[TheGeneral99]

Kawhi would not have won if KD or Klay didn't get hurt

Now imagine if Hardens rockets didn't have cp3 get hurt, or KD/Klay were out when they played them in 2018. It would have been a different series.

Kawhis other ring came as a supporting player on the Spurs.

Why do people keep parrotting this.

Raptors were still the better team that series when Klay was healthy.

The Warriors were tied 2-2 with the Rockets with Durant before he got hurt and ended up winning 4-2. While obviously Durant is a deadly iso player, the Warriors also played more team oriented basketball with him out and routinely did fine without him.

It's not an foregone conclusion at all the Warriors would win even if KD and Klay were both healthy.

[Ito]

Where Kawhi ranks all time in missed games? He gota be the goat.. and the most influential player of all time only behind a dead person

[phanman]

Kawhi would not have won if KD or Klay didn't get hurt

Now imagine if Hardens rockets didn't have cp3 get hurt, or KD/Klay were out when they played them in 2018. It would have been a different series.

Kawhis other ring came as a supporting player on the Spurs.

It would've definitely been a much tougher series, but it's not a given that we would have lost in 2019 even with KD and Klay fully healthy(Klay only missed 1 full game and actually played 32 mins in G6). Also may I remind you that the 2019 Rocket team actually lost to Golden State without KD for the entire series.

Likewise in 2018, obviously losing CP3 was massive but that doesn't guarantee a win either. Now I would concede that having Paul would have have probably prevented the team from missing 27 straight 3's but Harden also played like **** in the two closing games. He went a combined 22/53 FG (6/25 from deep) and had 15 assists to 14 turnovers as an combined -34 for both games.

[LLJ]

It is Kawhi

[LLJ]

Kawhi would not have won if KD or Klay didn't get hurt

Now imagine if Hardens rockets didn't have cp3 get hurt, or KD/Klay were out when they played them in 2018. It would have been a different series.

Kawhis other ring came as a supporting player on the Spurs.

It would've definitely been a much tougher series, but it's not a given that we would have lost in 2019 even with KD and Klay fully healthy(Klay only missed 1 full game and actually played 32 mins in G6). Also may I remind you that the 2019 Rocket team actually lost to Golden State without KD for the entire series.

Likewise in 2018, obviously losing CP3 was massive but that doesn't guarantee a win either. Now I would concede that having Paul would have have probably prevented the team from missing 27 straight 3's but Harden also played like **** in the two closing games. He went a combined 22/53 FG (6/25 from deep) and had 15 assists to 14 turnovers as an combined -34 for both games.

Yeah, that Raptors team had a habit of falling behind in a series and then making a comeback. They were a counterpunch team so just because KD looked good for 15 minutes in some random game before he injured himself again doesn't mean it would have been the same had he stayed healthy.

[Joao Saraiva]

Harden for me. Bill Walton is not in my top 100... so Kawih never being able to play hurts his ranking a lot.

[benson13]

Kawhi would not have won if KD or Klay didn't get hurt

Now imagine if Hardens rockets didn't have cp3 get hurt, or KD/Klay were out when they played them in 2018. It would have been a different series.

Kawhis other ring came as a supporting player on the Spurs.

Why do people keep parrotting this.

Raptors were still the better team that series when Klay was healthy.

The Warriors were tied 2-2 with the Rockets with Durant before he got hurt and ended up winning 4-2. While obviously Durant is a deadly iso player, the Warriors also played more team oriented basketball with him out and routinely did fine without him.

It's not an foregone conclusion at all the Warriors would win even if KD and Klay were both healthy.

What's even funnier is Harden's play down the stretch in game six against the Warriors that season. In the last two minutes Harden turned the ball over(surprise!) twice while Curry scored 11. Rockets fans will never get over the fact that their team was the Sacramento Kings to the Warrior's threepeat Lakers.

They played Golden State four times, never won, and got beat 4-1 twice.

[1993Playoffs]

Harden. Kawhi doesn’t even play

[ken6199]

Peak? How do you define peak? A good playoff run over 20 or so games is peak, but a whole season averaging 36ppg, or a MVP season over 82 games is not peak?

One guy is still carrying his team well into his 30s, the other one doesn't even play.

A prime example of people's view are easily skewed by the narratives.
- x is a winner, y is a loser
- x shows up when it matters

[CometGM]

The reality here is, as per the usual, people are completely unable to process circumstance.

Kawhi in place of Harden ain't doing ****, probably not even making the playoffs.

And Harden in the place of Kawhi is doing what in the playoffs?

Obviously Harden is higher in the Greatest list because of counting stats/accolades, but Kawhi is a better player if your goal in basketball is to win at the highest levels.

It's for reasons like this that I always believe when comparing players it should be a 2 list comparison. Greatest (counting stats/accolades) and Best (impact on winning at the highest levels).

[Shock Defeat]

Kawhi would not have won if KD or Klay didn't get hurt

Now imagine if Hardens rockets didn't have cp3 get hurt, or KD/Klay were out when they played them in 2018. It would have been a different series.

Kawhis other ring came as a supporting player on the Spurs.

Why do people keep parrotting this.

Raptors were still the better team that series when Klay was healthy.

The Warriors were tied 2-2 with the Rockets with Durant before he got hurt and ended up winning 4-2. While obviously Durant is a deadly iso player, the Warriors also played more team oriented basketball with him out and routinely did fine without him.

It's not an foregone conclusion at all the Warriors would win even if KD and Klay were both healthy.

The Rockets were prepared to play an iso-oriented team with KD, and the Warriors (to their credit) switched up once KD got hurt and the Rockets did not have enough time to adjust their gameplan. This was in 2019 btw, which was a much weaker Rockets team than the one in 2018, when CP3 got hurt after leading them to a victory and a 3-2 series lead.

[Big J]

We don't rank guys on regular season stats. Playoffs this is Kawhi and it ain't close.

[ArksNetsSince99]

I can't imagine ranking Leonard over Harden here. The gap is massive here. Leonard is certainly an interesting case study, as he obviously had an insane run in 2019...though even then he was banged up in the finals.

Then imagine

Championships

Kawhi - 1

Harden -0

Kawhi by a landslide

Counting rings is for children and ESPN employees.

LOL