Buck Butler

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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#41 » by BBallFreak » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:43 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:I guess, do you think that Jimmy Butler has more or less trade value that Dame had when he was traded?

Less, obviously, but only because of his current and past drama.

But Middleton, Portis, and a first is less value than you gave for Dame - by a lot! Portland got a first, a swap, Grayson Allen (who they sent onward) and Jrue who, himself, returned a haul. Miami isn't getting that. Not even close!

Middleton isn't going to return a Jrue Holiday return. He's not that guy! Neither is Portis.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#42 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:51 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
I think by 2031 there will be no hindsight talk with a trade with such limited suitors. Off topic a bit, but who remembers what Tyrus Thomas was traded for? How many know why Chicago owns that Portland first?.. But good for Miami if Milwaukee gives in. I just think it’s avoidable.

Would Brooklyn trade the NYK 2025 first for Milwaukee’s 2031 top 4 protected? And then Miami gets a first and Milwaukee gets the protection.

Heat has to have more options than the bucks imo? Bucks don't get this deal done Giannis upset. Not too many alternatives to get a Butler quality player with their assets.


Ingram isn’t really Butler quality. But he’s a 8 years younger.. Is Butler better next year? Probably. The year after? Probably not.. And now in two years when you’re hoping Giannis extends, at least you have someone on the roster below 37?

But like I said. Brooklyn should easily trade their latest first (Houston or NYK) for Milwaukee’s 2031 top 4 protected first. And then Pat can say he got a first.

I just think once you do that, Miami still takes Milwaukee’s first. So skip the dance sort of deal.

Maybe before the switch to lotto odds I would like it more. Now the 11th worse team has nearly a 10 percent chance of jumping top 4. I'm giving Bucks top 1 protection at best. Pick probably most exciting part of the deal then Portis. Getting a late first is not equivalent imo. Least favorable first removes a lot upside.

Pelicans don't benefit from being good in the short term like Miami. Ingram expiring and you on the hook for 47 million next year. If Ingram value that low I would hope Lakers making phone calls.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#43 » by jayjaysee » Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:10 pm

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:
kobe_vs_jordan wrote:Heat has to have more options than the bucks imo? Bucks don't get this deal done Giannis upset. Not too many alternatives to get a Butler quality player with their assets.


Ingram isn’t really Butler quality. But he’s a 8 years younger.. Is Butler better next year? Probably. The year after? Probably not.. And now in two years when you’re hoping Giannis extends, at least you have someone on the roster below 37?

But like I said. Brooklyn should easily trade their latest first (Houston or NYK) for Milwaukee’s 2031 top 4 protected first. And then Pat can say he got a first.

I just think once you do that, Miami still takes Milwaukee’s first. So skip the dance sort of deal.

Maybe before the switch to lotto odds I would like it more. Now the 11th worth team has nearly a 10 percent chance of jumping top 4. I'm giving Bucks top 1 protection at best. Pick probably most exciting part of the deal then Portis. Getting a late first is not equivalent imo. Least favorable first removes a lot upside.

Pelicans don't benefit from being good in the short term like Miami. Ingram expiring and you on the hook for 47 million next year. If Ingram value that low I would hope Lakers making phone calls.


Ingram doesn’t call for all three to be sent out though, so it’s not really the same. You get Ingram to turn down his TK and either Portis or Connaughton is enough. And Ingram should definitely turn down to his TK to go to a team that can’t afford to let him leave in free agency… If you dump Connaughton using Johnson and 2nd, then it’s just Midds and a lightly protected first for Ingram..

And I’d go further and guess there’s some team that takes a chance on Middleton for less long term salary. But I like Midds with Trey and Herb if NOP can afford it. They won’t be tanking next season and he’s a solid vet..
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#44 » by jayjaysee » Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:18 pm

But either way. If Brooklyn trades their worst 2025 first for Milwaukees 2031 top 4 protected (they should) then Miami is getting a first. So Miami is happy..

So still think Milwaukee can pull that protection off, whether it’s directly with Miami or looping in OKC or Brooklyn or Ainge.. or even Presti.

Presti did a similar trade and we all thought it was smart for OKC? And added value IIRC and the protection was top 5 not top 4.. So maybe Brooklyn has to add another second to Miami or something.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#45 » by SA37 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:18 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
mlloyd10 wrote:[
Man, you guys are all selling Middleton short...Holy cow.


Or maybe you remember all the great stuff he has done for the Bucks and are missing the obvious decline that the organization obviously sees.

I love Middleton. I have championed him on this board all the way back to his Pistons days when I used to post deals bringing him to Dallas because I could see there was more to be unleashed.

But he's in decline. Sucks, but it happens to everyone eventually. Like usual our analysis isn't anti-your player or your team because its not as glowing as yours. But naturally that's the only conclusion some of you ever reach....


No one is denying that he is declining, but the guy just put up 25/8/5 in the playoffs being force to be the #1 option.

If is was as simple as Middleton and the 2031 1st, sure....Its the secondary pieces

Your Analysis is your opinion


You're using a 6-game sample -- pre-surgery on both ankles -- and omitting the injury-riddled seasons leading up to this one where Middleton's output was significantly below what he had managed in previous seasons. No one is saying Middleton is a scrub, but not even Middleton's mom believes Khris is going to play 75 games and average those playoff numbers over a season in what remains of his contract.

If the Bucks believe Middleton still has it, they have no reason to move him for Butler regardless of what the trade package is. On the other hand, Miami has no reason to deal Butler to Milwaukee if they don't think they're getting fair value for Butler.

I don't know how serious the Bucks' interest for Butler is, but unless Butler is willing to sign for the minimum or take some outrageous pay cut, acquiring Butler doesn't get easier in the summer for any team except Brooklyn and Houston (who would need to renounce their team option on VanVleet to create ~$30M in space). So, Miami still has a fair amount of leverage and likely more than 1 suitor for Butler.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#46 » by mlloyd10 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:07 pm

Only reason i would want Butler is for his Defense
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#47 » by JonHeist » Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:29 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
Spoiler:
Texas Chuck wrote:I think Pat takes more than that to dump. The Heat getting that package should be happy to help pay it too. Two good players whose contracts fit their desires and an unprotected 1st? They can kick in some value.

We'll pitch in AJ Green

Spoiler:
But Op is completely fine.

I don't think most people understand here - even if Miami fans are getting the exact trade we're asking for, we're still holding our noses to the deal. Jimmy has been our franchise player for years. We've watched the likes of Rudy Gobert and Mikal Bridges go for boatloads of value that they're not worth, and we're being asked to smile and take a team's leftovers and be grateful for it. We're not going to be grateful for it. This trade is fine but it's still an insult (no offense to the op who did a great job)


0% chance AJ Green is getting "thrown in"

might be the single most underrated player in the whole league
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#48 » by BBallFreak » Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:48 pm

JonHeist wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
Spoiler:
Texas Chuck wrote:I think Pat takes more than that to dump. The Heat getting that package should be happy to help pay it too. Two good players whose contracts fit their desires and an unprotected 1st? They can kick in some value.

We'll pitch in AJ Green

Spoiler:
But Op is completely fine.

I don't think most people understand here - even if Miami fans are getting the exact trade we're asking for, we're still holding our noses to the deal. Jimmy has been our franchise player for years. We've watched the likes of Rudy Gobert and Mikal Bridges go for boatloads of value that they're not worth, and we're being asked to smile and take a team's leftovers and be grateful for it. We're not going to be grateful for it. This trade is fine but it's still an insult (no offense to the op who did a great job)


0% chance AJ Green is getting "thrown in"

might be the single most underrated player in the whole league

Green was included in the trade initially. All I was saying was we'd forward him on to Washington to help the value level out.

Relax, man. No one's putting down your guy...
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#49 » by tester551 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:18 pm

nate33 wrote:This doesn't seem unreasonable from Washington's perspective. I'd probably try and haggle for the best of Blazers/Bucks 2030 pick instead of the worst.

Portland owns the better of the picks.
Since it is a pick swap -> Bucks are not able to trade it away. The best they can do is give a second swap.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#50 » by tester551 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:22 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I think this makes the most sense -

Pat Connaughton + AJ Johnson + lower 2030 PDX / MIL SRP into WAS Gafford TPE

Then -

Jimmy Butler + Kevin Love + Alec Burks for Kris Middleton + Bobby Portis + Marjon Beauchamp + 2031 FRP (Top-4) + 2031 MIL SRP

Think Love and Burks help MIL round the roster a bit and MIA likely goes young and doesnt have roles for them -

G - Damian Lillard / Alec Burks / AJ Green
G - Andre Jackson JR / Gary Trent JR / Delon Wright
F - Jimmy Butler / Taurean Prince / Andre Jackson JR
F - Giannis Antetokounmpo / Taurean Prince / Kevin Love
C - Brook Lopez / Giannis Antetokounmpo / Kevin Love

Portland & Bucks don't have a 2nd rounder swap in place.

It's a '30 1st round swap. Bucks can't trade that pick due to Steipen rule.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#51 » by RoyalWun » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:30 pm

Honestly, can Miami get a whole lot better than this? Especially when it comes to his contract and teams actually willing to give up much for Butler.

Bucks on the other hand need to do what they need to do to win, like RIGHT now (either this year or next) and it's a no brainer swapping Middleton for Butler.
Dammit...:

I've got Nurkic fever now.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#52 » by Pipp33 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:37 pm

I see the value to be okay for Bucks/Heat, but think it leaves the Bucks incredibly thin depth wise.

Portis is an important player for them and leave them with very little playable bigs.

Also into account the Butler is maybe just more reliable fitness wise than Middleton nowadays, although Butler is the better player.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#53 » by BBallFreak » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:40 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:Only reason i would want Butler is for his Defense

Lol!

Because why would anyone want Playoff Himmy?

Get outta here! That guy gives you the best possible chance to get past Boston and get to the finals. But you just want perimeter defender.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#54 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:44 pm

Title should read Butler Passes The Buck
It has been written...
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#55 » by BBallFreak » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:52 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:Title should read Butler Passes The Buck

Or, the Buckler did it
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#56 » by NYG » Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:02 am

tester551 wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:I think this makes the most sense -

Pat Connaughton + AJ Johnson + lower 2030 PDX / MIL SRP into WAS Gafford TPE

Then -

Jimmy Butler + Kevin Love + Alec Burks for Kris Middleton + Bobby Portis + Marjon Beauchamp + 2031 FRP (Top-4) + 2031 MIL SRP

Think Love and Burks help MIL round the roster a bit and MIA likely goes young and doesnt have roles for them -

G - Damian Lillard / Alec Burks / AJ Green
G - Andre Jackson JR / Gary Trent JR / Delon Wright
F - Jimmy Butler / Taurean Prince / Andre Jackson JR
F - Giannis Antetokounmpo / Taurean Prince / Kevin Love
C - Brook Lopez / Giannis Antetokounmpo / Kevin Love

Portland & Bucks don't have a 2nd rounder swap in place.

It's a '30 1st round swap. Bucks can't trade that pick due to Steipen rule.


You're right I misread it on the picks site for the OP

Would sending AJ Johnson and Bucks '31 2nd be enough for Washington to take on Connaughton?
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#57 » by stillgotgame » Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:13 am

Bucks fan that lives in South Florida perspective:

AJ Johnson is the prize here. Although still unknown he's got a lot of talent. Definition of a boom/bust prospect. He alone is worth doing this for.
Hope it gets done, for both sides. Jimmy is loved in Milwaukee from his Marquette days.
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#58 » by the_process » Fri Jan 17, 2025 1:18 am

NYG wrote:Heat get:
Khris Middleton
Bobby Portis
AJ Johnson
2031 Unprotected Bucks 1st

Bucks get:
Jimmy Butler

Wizards get:
Pat Connaughton
Lower of 2030 Blazers/Bucks 2nd
2031 Bucks 2nd

Heat add a first and resolve the Butler situation without taking on any salary beyond 2026

Bucks add a great piece to create a trio of Giannis/Lillard/Butler to carry them down the stretch and in the playoffs

Wizards take on some money using a TPE to get two future second rounders without going above the tax or taking on long-term salary


Like these three teams as a trade trio, but want to change the configuration after learning that 2nd apron teams are in fact allowed to aggregate as long as they end the trade under the 2nd apron.

MIA gets Connaughton, Middleton, Brogdon, and Baldwin
MIL gets Butler and Valanciunas
WSH gets Duncan Robinson, Brook Lopez, and 2031 MIL 1st top 4 protected
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#59 » by BBallFreak » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:01 am

the_process wrote:
NYG wrote:Heat get:
Khris Middleton
Bobby Portis
AJ Johnson
2031 Unprotected Bucks 1st

Bucks get:
Jimmy Butler

Wizards get:
Pat Connaughton
Lower of 2030 Blazers/Bucks 2nd
2031 Bucks 2nd

Heat add a first and resolve the Butler situation without taking on any salary beyond 2026

Bucks add a great piece to create a trio of Giannis/Lillard/Butler to carry them down the stretch and in the playoffs

Wizards take on some money using a TPE to get two future second rounders without going above the tax or taking on long-term salary


Like these three teams as a trade trio, but want to change the configuration after learning that 2nd apron teams are in fact allowed to aggregate as long as they end the trade under the 2nd apron.

MIA gets Connaughton, Middleton, Brogdon, and Baldwin
MIL gets Butler and Valanciunas
WSH gets Duncan Robinson, Brook Lopez, and 2031 MIL 1st top 4 protected

No thanks.

Why are we losing the Milwaukee pick, downgrading from Robinson to Connaughton, and losing Portis just to get Brogdon? You could have at least taken Rozier instead of Robinson
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Re: Buck Butler 

Post#60 » by jscott » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:30 am

Thread title should have been Jimmy BUCKets.

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