Bulls vs Hawks 7pm CT Jan. 15 2025

[drosestruts]

I get coaches are easier to replace - but I can't hang THAT loss on the coach.

If you can't beat a bunch of G-leaguers it's not a matter of who the Coach is.

I don't know who the Bulls think they are, but no, you're not good enough to just flip the switch late and win. As evidenced by the countless losses to less talented teams.

What's the Shoresy line - "I hate losing more than I like winning" - that's the energy we need here. But this team is for too ok with losing.

The coach started Pat and Coby, and has been for years now. At this point, every game he starts those players is on him because it is pure idiocy.

Yeah can't say I'd be starting those guys.

Though two guys I would start - Ball and Craig weren't available.

Other options may be better, but not great.

Giddey-Ayo-LaVine-Buzelis-Vuc would have been my starting group. Especially after half time I would have done SOMETHING different.

[Ctownbulls]

All of the fears scouts saw in PWill coming out of college have come to fruition. You can't teach competitiveness.

[kodo]

+/- lately FWIW. Just backs up the eye test that we seem to not be doing well with Coby out there.

Since Dec 1st:
Lavine: +2.8
Vuc: +0.5
Giddey: +1.4
Ayo: +3.0
Lonzo: +3.3
Coby: -3.0
Patrick: -5.8

[Stratmaster]

I get coaches are easier to replace - but I can't hang THAT loss on the coach.

If you can't beat a bunch of G-leaguers it's not a matter of who the Coach is.

I don't know who the Bulls think they are, but no, you're not good enough to just flip the switch late and win. As evidenced by the countless losses to less talented teams.

What's the Shoresy line - "I hate losing more than I like winning" - that's the energy we need here. But this team is for too ok with losing.

The coach started Pat and Coby, and has been for years now. At this point, every game he starts those players is on him because it is pure idiocy.

Yeah can't say I'd be starting those guys.

Though two guys I would start - Ball and Craig weren't available.

Other options may be better, but not great.

Giddey-Ayo-LaVine-Buzelis-Vuc would have been my starting group. Especially after half time I would have done SOMETHING different.

With Ball out I agree on that starting lineup. I will add that if he just is dead set against starting Buz I would take Phillips or Terry in his place before either Coby or Pat. Coby can be valuable but he tends to break the game. That is fine in a bench microwave scorer. Not in a starting point guard. Williams just doesn't belong anywhere near the floor in anything other than Q4 of a blowout.

One other starting lineup I would consider; but I have no way of knowing it would work because we really haven't seen it much and I don't know what has been practiced or what schemes have been looked at for it, if any..... Ball/Ayo, Lavine, Giddey, Smith, Vuc.

[Andi Obst]

There's no reason not to start Buzelis at this point.

It's impossible to be worse than Pat and the "competitive" part of the season should be over as well. Let's try to do something that actually makes sense for a change.

[FriedRise]

They're not gonna bench Pat. Last year maybe, but he makes too much now and the FO need to be able to justify what they're paying him. How's he gonna give you his 10/4/2 when he doesn't play his 27 minutes?

[SirKaiser]

They're not gonna bench Pat. Last year maybe, but he makes too much now and the FO need to be able to justify what they're paying him. How's he gonna give you his 10/4/2 when he doesn't play his 27 minutes?

Good point, so this falls on the GM. I've been willing to cut AK some slack with his vision for the team essentially being destroyed when Ball went down for 2 years, but we can look at other deals in a vaccum, like the one for PWill or Caruso for Giddey, and I don't understand how the guy still gets to have this job.

I feel like Ryan Poles catches more flak even though he's had less time, and can atleast put his name on some good (or at the very least, TBD, moves). What has AK done? What is his +/- for the team?

[Dan Z]

They're not gonna bench Pat. Last year maybe, but he makes too much now and the FO need to be able to justify what they're paying him. How's he gonna give you his 10/4/2 when he doesn't play his 27 minutes?

Good point, so this falls on the GM. I've been willing to cut AK some slack with his vision for the team essentially being destroyed when Ball went down for 2 years, but we can look at other deals in a vaccum, like the one for PWill or Caruso for Giddey, and I don't understand how the guy still gets to have this job.

I feel like Ryan Poles catches more flak even though he's had less time, and can atleast put his name on some good (or at the very least, TBD, moves). What has AK done? What is his +/- for the team?

This is AK's fifth season and if they don't make the playoffs this year (which seems likely) then the team only made the playoffs one time (an easy loss to Milwaukee). That's an awful track record for someone who traded future assets to win now.

[Red8911]

I get coaches are easier to replace - but I can't hang THAT loss on the coach.

If you can't beat a bunch of G-leaguers it's not a matter of who the Coach is.

I don't know who the Bulls think they are, but no, you're not good enough to just flip the switch late and win. As evidenced by the countless losses to less talented teams.

What's the Shoresy line - "I hate losing more than I like winning" - that's the energy we need here. But this team is for too ok with losing.

The coach started Pat and Coby, and has been for years now. At this point, every game he starts those players is on him because it is pure idiocy.

Ok so if Coby and Pat come off the bench then the bulls will automatically start winning ? I doubt that lol.What drosestruts said was right, bulls didn’t need a coach or specific lineups to win this game against the hawks who were very short handed.

The only blame Billy can have for this one is he didn’t have his players ready to play and it showed. All of them didn’t seem interested to play hard thinking they wouldn’t have to.

Players get more blame than Billy over this loss. They were carelessly turning the ball over all game long and couldn’t defend or grab defensive rebounds. Coach gets the blame all the time but they should be doing the basic stuff.No one was good, they all were terrible from starters to bench.

[drosestruts]

I get coaches are easier to replace - but I can't hang THAT loss on the coach.

If you can't beat a bunch of G-leaguers it's not a matter of who the Coach is.

I don't know who the Bulls think they are, but no, you're not good enough to just flip the switch late and win. As evidenced by the countless losses to less talented teams.

What's the Shoresy line - "I hate losing more than I like winning" - that's the energy we need here. But this team is for too ok with losing.

The coach started Pat and Coby, and has been for years now. At this point, every game he starts those players is on him because it is pure idiocy.

Ok so if Coby and Pat come off the bench then the bulls will automatically start winning ? I doubt that lol.What drosestruts said was right, bulls didn’t need a coach or specific lineups to win this game against the hawks who were very short handed.

The only blame Billy can have for this one is he didn’t have his players ready to play and it showed. All of them didn’t seem interested to play hard thinking they wouldn’t have to.

Players get more blame than Billy over this loss. They were carelessly turning the ball over all game long and couldn’t defend or grab defensive rebounds. Coach gets the blame all the time but they should be doing the basic stuff.No one was good, they all were terrible from starters to bench.

Billy Donovan can't make you do basic things like grab a rebound off a missed free throw shooter or box out the free throw shooter himself.

Instead, Dyson Daniels misses a free-throw, recovers the rebound, and lays it up uncontested.

That's not a Billy Donovan issue.

[Dan Z]

When AK was hired he had the #4 pick in the draft, two young players with potential (Coby & Lauri), a decent young center (Gafford), an all-star in his prime (Zach...I know he's divisive. I have mixed thoughts on him too. Calling him an all-star is true, but doesn't paint the full picture), all his future picks and a decent cap situation (I think...?).

He took that sitiation, traded players, plus three first round picks (and 2nds) to form the roster we curently have.

Outside of a few months (DDRs first season with the Bulls) the team hasn't been winning. His goal from the start has been to make the playoffs.

In the NBA 16 teams make the playoffs (over half!)and the play-in makes it easier to get there. Plus, there are a handful of teams that aren't even looking to win because they're rebuilding.

I think most teams would've fired AK by now.

[samwana]

AK should not have been in the position to sign PW to a 90m contract with a player option. How the heck are you owner and not see for yourself how insane that was?

Following that up with another off season where no PF is signed is just crazy. We are into the fourth year without a PF. The only excuse they have here is that BD doesn't play PF's anyway.

Actually all 3 if them should be long gone.
Where us our billboard guy?

[Muzbar]

When AK was hired he had the #4 pick in the draft, two young players with potential (Coby & Lauri), a decent young center (Gafford), an all-star in his prime (Zach...I know he's divisive. I have mixed thoughts on him too. Calling him an all-star is true, but doesn't paint the full picture), all his future picks and a decent cap situation (I think...?).

He took that sitiation, traded players, plus three first round picks (and 2nds) to form the roster we curently have.

Outside of a few months (DDRs first season with the Bulls) the team hasn't been winning. His goal from the start has been to make the playoffs.

In the NBA 16 teams make the playoffs (over half!)and the play-in makes it easier to get there. Plus, there are a handful of teams that aren't even looking to win because they're rebuilding.

I think most teams would've fired AK by now.

It really is a peculiar situation, it's almost as if (much like AK), ownership doesn't want to admit their mistake by firing the guy they hired only a couple of years ago.

Most of the league knows this Bulls roster isn't working and that the Bulls should start over, but AK in all his stubbornness refuses to admit defeat and continues to try and make things work.

The Bulls need to stop waiting to see if things are going to click and take some sort of action, this isn't working. If you can't trade Zach for some sort of value then fine, keep him, but other guys that are helping contribute to wins need to go whilst they still have value (Vuc, Coby & Lonzo) if you can.

Usually when a team isn't clicking or working it's the coach that gets fired first, but even Billy is safe from AK's incompetence.

I need a job within the Bulls front office, I'd have a job for life!

[cocktailswith_2short]

Id fire ak and billy today . Gasoline , kerosene, doesn't matter this house needs burned down . Rebuild from the ashes with new coach GM and hopefully top pick .

[ImSlower]

I work in the bar and restaurant industry. In my town, a popular local spot hasn't really done anything to help itself at all dating back to before COVID. Other places have opened, a direct competitor has revamped their entire look and food and is a huge hit now, and my fave joint just putters along. Still gets busy sometimes, but it's nothing like it could be - or was in its heyday. Literally everyone knows it; every regular talks about the good ol' days - because it was eff'in awesome early on and helped beat my area's reputation for crappy corporate joints over small businesses.

What's the problem? The GM. He sucks. Everyone knows, even non-industry customers know and nod knowingly about his laziness. But he's overwhelmingly stubborn, and even though he sits there all the time and everyone knows him, it baffles me that the entire community, even his friends - I am one by the way! We drink and talk game all the time! I run a place down the street!- all know that it could be better if he just took the effort to make changes. Or just found a job that needs "remarkably stubborn, blind pride" as an important qualification.

Anyway, the Bulls are in the exact same position as my favorite local spot. Both owners are completely content with their #2, as long as butts are in seats. Thanks for listening to my TED talk about beloved places run by stubborn mules in power.

[Indomitable]

They're not gonna bench Pat. Last year maybe, but he makes too much now and the FO need to be able to justify what they're paying him. How's he gonna give you his 10/4/2 when he doesn't play his 27 minutes?

Good point, so this falls on the GM. I've been willing to cut AK some slack with his vision for the team essentially being destroyed when Ball went down for 2 years, but we can look at other deals in a vaccum, like the one for PWill or Caruso for Giddey, and I don't understand how the guy still gets to have this job.

I feel like Ryan Poles catches more flak even though he's had less time, and can atleast put his name on some good (or at the very least, TBD, moves). What has AK done? What is his +/- for the team?

This is AK's fifth season and if they don't make the playoffs this year (which seems likely) then the team only made the playoffs one time (an easy loss to Milwaukee). That's an awful track record for someone who traded future assets to win now.

If our owner was concerned with winning you might have a point.

[Indomitable]

Id fire ak and billy today . Gasoline , kerosene, doesn't matter this house needs burned down . Rebuild from the ashes with new coach GM and hopefully top pick .

I can't disagree but it does not matter.

[Indomitable]

When AK was hired he had the #4 pick in the draft, two young players with potential (Coby & Lauri), a decent young center (Gafford), an all-star in his prime (Zach...I know he's divisive. I have mixed thoughts on him too. Calling him an all-star is true, but doesn't paint the full picture), all his future picks and a decent cap situation (I think...?).

He took that sitiation, traded players, plus three first round picks (and 2nds) to form the roster we curently have.

Outside of a few months (DDRs first season with the Bulls) the team hasn't been winning. His goal from the start has been to make the playoffs.

In the NBA 16 teams make the playoffs (over half!)and the play-in makes it easier to get there. Plus, there are a handful of teams that aren't even looking to win because they're rebuilding.

I think most teams would've fired AK by now.

It really is a peculiar situation, it's almost as if (much like AK), ownership doesn't want to admit their mistake by firing the guy they hired only a couple of years ago.

Most of the league knows this Bulls roster isn't working and that the Bulls should start over, but AK in all his stubbornness refuses to admit defeat and continues to try and make things work.

The Bulls need to stop waiting to see if things are going to click and take some sort of action, this isn't working. If you can't trade Zach for some sort of value then fine, keep him, but other guys that are helping contribute to wins need to go whilst they still have value (Vuc, Coby & Lonzo) if you can.

Usually when a team isn't clicking or working it's the coach t ishat gets fired first, but even Billy is safe from AK's incompetence.

I need a job within the Bulls front office, I'd have a job for life!

Billy is dreadful. He playing vets but he has Vuc on the wing/top of the key with a 6 4 player guarding him.

Every other team in basketball would force it make it a postup. Niko should have killed Javonte in the post. Billy should have called a timeout and force them to run the ball through the post.

Billy does not coach with any edge. How can this man who has not accomplished nothing get such a pass.

Billy is happy in a low pressure situation. He has set his son up with the organization.

No one ever questions why Billy is untouchable. Not once has his future or AKs been called into question.

They have accomplished nothing. Why are their futures guaranteed?

The Bucks fired a championship coach and another with a 10 games above 500.

The Cavs fired a coach who got them to the playoffs.

Detroit swallowed a huge contract to replace their coach.

The Bulls sit on their hands and deflect. This organization screams loser. They are satisfied and we the fans just follow along.

I want Billy and AK gone. They took a young team full of assets and accomplished nothing. They pissed away their chance. The Lonzo Ball thing was bad.

Still they doubled down on Pat Williams and Pat is broken. He has to much negative history here. He might get it done in another place.

Pat should be removed because he is only getting worst and I wish the kid well. He is actually trying but it is a disaster.

Every team in this division is in a better place. The Bulls have mismanage all their assets and never take any blame. There is no pressure on them to actually turn this around.

This team still is living off the Jordan years. I actually did not hate the players. I just believe it is poorly put together.

Honestly I would start Mateas/Craig/Phillips because they actually give you something.

Mateas is a shotblockers and can finish.
Phillips is a energy player but at least he crashes the boards.
Torrey can actually do his job.

Pat has no clue. Pat is a mess and he is in his 5th season. Give someone else a shot.

[Stratmaster]

I get coaches are easier to replace - but I can't hang THAT loss on the coach.

If you can't beat a bunch of G-leaguers it's not a matter of who the Coach is.

I don't know who the Bulls think they are, but no, you're not good enough to just flip the switch late and win. As evidenced by the countless losses to less talented teams.

What's the Shoresy line - "I hate losing more than I like winning" - that's the energy we need here. But this team is for too ok with losing.

The coach started Pat and Coby, and has been for years now. At this point, every game he starts those players is on him because it is pure idiocy.

Ok so if Coby and Pat come off the bench then the bulls will automatically start winning ? I doubt that lol.What drosestruts said was right, bulls didn’t need a coach or specific lineups to win this game against the hawks who were very short handed.

The only blame Billy can have for this one is he didn’t have his players ready to play and it showed. All of them didn’t seem interested to play hard thinking they wouldn’t have to.

Players get more blame than Billy over this loss. They were carelessly turning the ball over all game long and couldn’t defend or grab defensive rebounds. Coach gets the blame all the time but they should be doing the basic stuff.No one was good, they all were terrible from starters to bench.

Yes. If Coby comes of the bench and Pat doesn't play the Bulls will be better. Did you watch them the last game? How about the 15 before that?

The Bulls goal the last 3 seasons was to make the playoffs. You can't set a much more reasonable goal. What other GM's in any sport would set such a low bar and then 4 years later, with failure after failure, still keep the coach while he smugly coach speaks his way out of blame every game. The performance of the team, regardless of the players, has been unacceptable.

Not a single player has blossomed under him. His in game coaching, rotations, and game management have been horrid. The team appears unprepared at the beginning of 75% of the games.

What has he been successful at?

[Stratmaster]

The coach started Pat and Coby, and has been for years now. At this point, every game he starts those players is on him because it is pure idiocy.

Ok so if Coby and Pat come off the bench then the bulls will automatically start winning ? I doubt that lol.What drosestruts said was right, bulls didn’t need a coach or specific lineups to win this game against the hawks who were very short handed.

The only blame Billy can have for this one is he didn’t have his players ready to play and it showed. All of them didn’t seem interested to play hard thinking they wouldn’t have to.

Players get more blame than Billy over this loss. They were carelessly turning the ball over all game long and couldn’t defend or grab defensive rebounds. Coach gets the blame all the time but they should be doing the basic stuff.No one was good, they all were terrible from starters to bench.

Billy Donovan can't make you do basic things like grab a rebound off a missed free throw shooter or box out the free throw shooter himself.

Instead, Dyson Daniels misses a free-throw, recovers the rebound, and lays it up uncontested.

That's not a Billy Donovan issue.

Yeah. It kind of is. I mean unless it is one single player who doesn't seen to understand the basics. Or I guess every player on the Bulls is just low IQ and every other team is full of geniuses.

Who's responsibility is it to block or the shooter on any given free throw? Which wing? Why don't they know it? Where is the accountability when they don't?