2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

[benhillboy]

Jaylen Wells has now entered the All Defense conversion if he already hasn’t.
JJJ put it best, halfway through the season and he’s guarded almost every high end scorer. Successfully more times than not. An absolute clinic tonight on 94 feet, ball denial, face guarding, and everything else shutting down Ant. Miraculous value in that pick for Memphis.

[cupcakesnake]

Jaylen Wells has now entered the All Defense conversion if he already hasn’t.
JJJ put it best, halfway through the season and he’s guarded almost every high end scorer. Successfully more times than not. An absolute clinic tonight on 94 feet, ball denial, face guarding, and everything else shutting down Ant. Miraculous value in that pick for Memphis.

Really active man-to-man defender but I don't think that alone gets you into the all-defense conversation as a rookie. There are way too many elite wings with a reputation and who are more well-rounded defenders.

Wells looks awesome on-ball, so his defense is loud. Gave Ant some fits last night. But Wells is an on-ball specialist right now who brings nothing as a disruptor or help defender. Short-armed wing who doesn't give you anything in terms of deflections or paint protection. Quick feet and hard work. Good defender but imo, not very high up in the league's best defensive wings.

He plays his role really well in Memphis though. Pressure the crap out of the ball. He does this at a high level.

[OGSactownballer]

He probably won't make or it but Keon Ellis should be getting All Defense votes.

I’ll add that Keegan Murray gets overlooked but he has the assignment of the opponents best wing/guard scorer every night.

Now that these two have been turned loose entirely by Doug Christie I fully expect that the type of defensive rating we have seen over the start of his term as HC will be sustained and conversations will have to include these two, Domas and Fox. Not to mention how Devin Carter already looks starting his rookie season halfway through.

[benhillboy]

Jaylen Wells has now entered the All Defense conversion if he already hasn’t.
JJJ put it best, halfway through the season and he’s guarded almost every high end scorer. Successfully more times than not. An absolute clinic tonight on 94 feet, ball denial, face guarding, and everything else shutting down Ant. Miraculous value in that pick for Memphis.

Really active man-to-man defender but I don't think that alone gets you into the all-defense conversation as a rookie. There are way too many elite wings with a reputation and who are more well-rounded defenders.

Wells looks awesome on-ball, so his defense is loud. Gave Ant some fits last night. But Wells is an on-ball specialist right now who brings nothing as a disruptor or help defender. Short-armed wing who doesn't give you anything in terms of deflections or paint protection. Quick feet and hard work. Good defender but imo, not very high up in the league's best defensive wings.

He plays his role really well in Memphis though. Pressure the crap out of the ball. He does this at a high level.

It was a little hyperbole to suggest All Defense, but he’s still splendid IMO. You’re as nitpicky and critical with players as I am lol.

I don’t sweat his rebound/stock noise (73rd percentile in DEPM, Dort is 81st). He boxes out well (and gets away with more pushes in the back than any rookie should), makes passes hard, and makes good close out/ contests, like their whole squad does so those weaknesses you pointed out don’t sting at all. With his workload I don’t think you’d get Jenkins to say one bad word about him on the winning end.

I just don’t want the fact that the Grizz killed the draft to get swept under the rug, Edey & Wells both 80th percentile + in EPM.

[OkcSinceSGA]

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I agree that dominant shotblockers typically win DPOY and guys like Dort, Herb Jones etc will get snubbed every year because they don't put up big "stock" numbers.

[Jaqua92]

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I agree that dominant shotblockers typically win DPOY and guys like Dort, Herb Jones etc will get snubbed every year because they don't put up big "stock" numbers.

Wait.... Weren't OKC fans touting SGA for big time stock numbers?

Stock numbers rarely get it done.

[ijspeelman]

It kinda sucks that this race feels over before it started because Wemby is just on another level as a defender. He's in the same ilk as Rudy Gobert as a one man defense, but better because he's versatile and is switchable and has better foot speed and is bigger.

Mostly sucks because there is some amazing defense being played at the player and team levels each night and I think the debate for the second best guy is more interesting than the top guy right now.

[cupcakesnake]

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I agree that dominant shotblockers typically win DPOY and guys like Dort, Herb Jones etc will get snubbed every year because they don't put up big "stock" numbers.

Typical annoying work by NBACentral to pick the least interesting, most clickbait line of what J.Dub said.

It was actually a nice little conversation about the subtleties of different defensive roles (coming from a dude with some serious experience in different defensive roles). Gives a nice shoutout to Herb Jones too.

[slick_watts]

the thunder have one of the best defenses of all time, currently. and jalen williams might be the most impactful defensive player they have this year. he leads the team in a lot of categories that contribute to their particular style (elite shot defense and turnovers). he leads the team in deflections, defensive loose balls recovered, and he's contesting more shots inside of six feet than any of their non-bigs (and allowing 11% lower fg% than expected, twice as good as derrick white for example).

he's been deployed in many ways. against the knicks he was defending KAT, against the spurs he defends wemby, and he gets switched onto high usage guards and wings all the time, and he's been elite defending in transition. in ~400 minutes playing without a center on the court, the thunder have a 112drtg (~top 10) with jdub ostensibly manning the position. descriptive defensive metrics like EPM actual and LEBRON have him ranked near the top of the league defensively, and at the top of the thunder as a team.

jdub himself might advocate for lu dort. dort is great at what he does, but his impact on the thunder's defense is a lot more narrow than jdub's who has been legitimately defending five positions.

[LarsV8]

Amen Thompson should be DPOY.

This dude is on another level.

[OkcSinceSGA]

the thunder have one of the best defenses of all time, currently. and jalen williams might be the most impactful defensive player they have this year. he leads the team in a lot of categories that contribute to their particular style (elite shot defense and turnovers). he leads the team in deflections, defensive loose balls recovered, and he's contesting more shots inside of six feet than any of their non-bigs (and allowing 11% lower fg% than expected, twice as good as derrick white for example).

he's been deployed in many ways. against the knicks he was defending KAT, against the spurs he defends wemby, and he gets switched onto high usage guards and wings all the time, and he's been elite defending in transition. in ~400 minutes playing without a center on the court, the thunder have a 112drtg (~top 10) with jdub ostensibly manning the position. descriptive defensive metrics like EPM actual and LEBRON have him ranked near the top of the league defensively, and at the top of the thunder as a team.

jdub himself might advocate for lu dort. dort is great at what he does, but his impact on the thunder's defense is a lot more narrow than jdub's who has been legitimately defending five positions.

Agreed. Jalen Williams is emerging into a Scottie Pippen jack of all trades guy. The main area he trails Pippen is playmaking.

[victorhe]

Honestly if Wemby does not win DPOY this year, I don’t bother watching any DPOY in future years no more. The way Wemby does on defense this year, no one comes close (even-though many good candidates)

[QPR]

Suspect this may be the season Dort finally gets All-D recognition

[MoneyTalks41890]

Hard not to vote Dub in with all he’s doing at 6 foot four

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[cupcakesnake]

Hard not to vote Dub in with all he’s doing at 6 foot four

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Lol this was a good interview.

For what it's worth, J.Dub at the draft combine was 6'4.5" barefoot (with an insane 7'2.25 wingspan). That's the exact same barefoot height as Shai (6'11.5" wingspan). J.Dub was 30lbs. heavier than Shai at the combine, and has really bulked up in his time in the NBA (now listed at 220lbs.) For what it's worth, J.Dub has similar dimensions to Draymond Green (6'5.75" with a 7'1.25" wingspan).

It's unlikely either grew but guys use their shoe height all the time so this is whatever.

[cupcakesnake]

Honestly if Wemby does not win DPOY this year, I don’t bother watching any DPOY in future years no more. The way Wemby does on defense this year, no one comes close (even-though many good candidates)

I think Wemby will win. Voters love to snooze on this award and Wemby is just too obvious.

And while I think the media will make this an open and shut case... I don't think Wemby is actually clearly the best defender in the NBA. He's not dominating statistically, but he is amongst the best. Diving into the film, Wemby is ridiculous but still makes mistakes.

I think Wemby is "probably" the best defender in the NBA already, but I don't think we should just stop talking about other guys when there are clear cases to make. The idea of Wemby (8-foot wingspan with elite mobility) and the highlights make us ignore the reality or at least the details of the reality.

For my non-existent vote, Evan Mobley is still in this. The Thunder players (iHart, J.Dub, Caruso) are still in this. The Thompson twins, Dyson Daniels, Suggs, Tari, Gobert are all still players I think have reasonable arguments to get votes.

[Blame Rasho]

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[Blame Rasho]

The thunder and cavs have unbelievable defenders and the state of the league has changed so much in the past 10/20 years but good defending will never change. If you get players like Williams and White and transported them to 2005, I believe they would still be elite defenders.

[cupcakesnake]

Anyone watch much of the Pacers lately? Andrew Nembhard has been on quite the defensive tear. It's about 20 games now of this team playing like a top 10 defense (and a top 5 offense).

With Nembhard on the floor, they suffocate teams to the tune of a 107 Drtg. Without him 118.9... yikes. That's a Victor Wembanyama type of on/off lol.

They sneaky have other good defenders though. Myles Turner is back to being a mountain at the rim, and Jarace Walker is a deflection monster with long rotations and quick feet. Siakam has looked less awful.

I don't think Nembhard can crack into the all-defense discussion because there's too many crazy elite defensive guards right now. He deserves mention though. He really pops off the screen.

[dhsilv2]

Hard not to vote Dub in with all he’s doing at 6 foot four

Lol this was a good interview.

For what it's worth, J.Dub at the draft combine was 6'4.5" barefoot (with an insane 7'2.25 wingspan). That's the exact same barefoot height as Shai (6'11.5" wingspan). J.Dub was 30lbs. heavier than Shai at the combine, and has really bulked up in his time in the NBA (now listed at 220lbs.) For what it's worth, J.Dub has similar dimensions to Draymond Green (6'5.75" with a 7'1.25" wingspan).

It's unlikely either grew but guys use their shoe height all the time so this is whatever.

Buddy of mine likes to round down my height and he might be right. But one thing that did get me thinking about...our heights aren't static. With guys this tall, it's likely they can change in height more than half an inch depending on time of day.