2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[Doctor MJ]

With RAPM? With RAPM, plenty of people are above Jokic. Even Zach LaVine and Isaiah Joe this season haha. He isn't even top 10. He is top 2 when it comes offense though. Garland is number 1.

SGA has been leading RAPM for two seasons in a row. What other metrics would you use? I know every metric has their flaws. Thinking basketball has its own, but I don't know it since you have to pay for it.

I'm confused by your statements.

First, what source are you using for RAPM? Link?

Second, if Garland is #1, how can SGA be leading?

[Special_Puppy]

The Thunder crushing the 2nd best team in basically is a nice feather in the cap for SGA’s MVP case

[QPR]

It's Shai's to lose right now. His play isn't dropping off at all, he's put up statement games against Cleveland and Boston and the wins gap is going to just be too large.

[greekman]

sga and it's not close.

[MaliBrah]

He could get 50 today if the game called for it or needed it. MVP

[QPR]

sga and it's not close.

It is close, you Bucks fans just have a bias against Jokic

[OkcSinceSGA]

OKC winning 70 games and SGA being as good as Jokic individually this season, especially with his excellent defense will put a nail in this race within 10-15 games probably.

[eyeatoma]

Sga the MVP. OKC has been dominant. Jokic is definitely better than last year but the Nuggets as a team aren't in the same stratosphere as the Thunder.

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[guynumber45]

As a massive Jokic truther, it's hard to argue against Shai right now. He has been putting up amazing numbers on the best team in basketball without his second-best player and has had multiple signature wins over elite competition.

[Snake3]

With RAPM? With RAPM, plenty of people are above Jokic. Even Zach LaVine and Isaiah Joe this season haha. He isn't even top 10. He is top 2 when it comes offense though. Garland is number 1.

SGA has been leading RAPM for two seasons in a row. What other metrics would you use? I know every metric has their flaws. Thinking basketball has its own, but I don't know it since you have to pay for it.

I'm confused by your statements.

First, what source are you using for RAPM? Link?

Second, if Garland is #1, how can SGA be leading?

https://nbagameflow.com/rapm_1

Currently, Garland is the #1 in off rapm. Curry is #2. And Jokic is #3. SGA is the #7 in rapm.

However SGA is #1 in def rapm.

So, it adds up for SGA to be #1. You have to judge in a long period of time. So in multiple seasons.

However, ppl say it's crap for judging a single season.

[Special_Puppy]

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

[OkcSinceSGA]

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

Hard to say, but when SGA sits.. normally the Thunder fall off pretty damn hard. So I'd say a good mix of both. Obviously OKC is superior top to bottom, but even individually he has a monstrous near Jokic level impact on games too. JDub becoming a modern day Scottie Pippen is pretty crazy tho.

[Rdude22]

I mean, the Embiid/Jokic race was pretty close between two awesome players. Just cuz I think the wrong guy won doesn’t change the fact that Biid was a monster, too.

Embiid had an incredible season but that doesn't mean it was close. It was purely narrative-driven.

Jokic had considerably better stats, he played in more games, he had a better winning percentage (because the Sixers actually had a better record when Embiid sat out than when he played that season due to Harden), he finished with a higher seed, he played in a tougher conference.

Flat out, straight up, there are absolutely zero coherent arguments in favor of Embiid winning it over Jokic that season. It happened because people didn't want Jokic to get three in a row because other greats like were previously denied that honor, and because Perkins and Smith at ESPN made it about race. It's a similar scenario to baseball writers refusing to let anyone be voted into the HOF unanimously on the first ballot simply because Babe Ruth had been denied that honor decades before. People voted with their hearts instead of their brains.

At least SGA has a considerably better record than Jokic this season, but beyond that he has no argument either. Jokic is top 4 in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and 3 point shooting right now. He's the best player in the world by a considerable margin and if he doesn't win this MVP it will be for the same reasons he didn't win it two years ago.

Ironically you’re creating a narrative just because people don’t agree with you that Jokic should be winning 6 straight MVPs

Anytime an argument starts with “[insert top 3-5 player] has no argument” and “anyone who disagrees are incoherent race-baiters…” you just know you’re hearing from an objective, pragmatic, non-fanboy

Gonna be sooo messed up tho when SGA wins MVP because he’s black, and probably Canadian too. Drake and Ryan Reynolds are putting in the call to the commish; but we in realgm see right through the agenda

Wow

Shai heard what i said and took it personal

[SpreeS]

sga and it's not close.

It is close, you Bucks fans just have a bias against Jokic

It isnt close..,,

[Special_Puppy]

sga and it's not close.

It is close, you Bucks fans just have a bias against Jokic

It isnt close..,,

Why? Jokic is leading in some advanced stats and SGA is leading in others. Both have amazing traditional stats.

[OkcSinceSGA]

It is close, you Bucks fans just have a bias against Jokic

It isnt close..,,

Why? Jokic is leading in some advanced stats and SGA is leading in others. Both have amazing traditional stats.

Because..... you have two players that are equally impactful and both putting up historic numbers/legendary seasons, but one guy has a 10 game lead in the standings. Some of that is team, but the only way Jokic would be able to win with that situation would be if he was EASILY the best player in the NBA to offset the difference in record. Yet he's not even definitively better than SGA this season. So the team record kinda kills the race.

PS... It's funny to watch the polls shift so hard. Just 3-4 weeks ago I was attacked like crazy for not saying Giannis/Jokic are better than SGA this year lol. Giannis was up 2.5x the votes over SGA who was literally FOURTH in the poll. Now the forum is shifting to SGA as MVP. Goes to show how much can change in weeks.

[Special_Puppy]

It isnt close..,,

Why? Jokic is leading in some advanced stats and SGA is leading in others. Both have amazing traditional stats.

Because..... you have two players that are equally impactful and both putting up historic numbers/legendary seasons, but one guy has a 10 game lead in the standings. Some of that is team, but the only way Jokic would be able to win with that situation would be if he was EASILY the best player in the NBA to offset the difference in record. Yet he's not even definitively better than SGA this season. So the team record kinda kills the race.

PS... It's funny to watch the polls shift so hard. Just 3-4 weeks ago I was attacked like crazy for not saying Giannis/Jokic are better than SGA this year lol. Giannis was up 2.5x the votes over SGA who was literally FOURTH in the poll. Now the forum is shifting to SGA as MVP. Goes to show how much can change in weeks.

I just don't really inherently care about team record personally for the MVP (and have been consistent about this. Thought Harden was the most deserving candidate in 2019. Thought Burrow was the most deserving candidate this year). I recognize that I am unusual in this regard though

[OkcSinceSGA]

Why? Jokic is leading in some advanced stats and SGA is leading in others. Both have amazing traditional stats.

Because..... you have two players that are equally impactful and both putting up historic numbers/legendary seasons, but one guy has a 10 game lead in the standings. Some of that is team, but the only way Jokic would be able to win with that situation would be if he was EASILY the best player in the NBA to offset the difference in record. Yet he's not even definitively better than SGA this season. So the team record kinda kills the race.

PS... It's funny to watch the polls shift so hard. Just 3-4 weeks ago I was attacked like crazy for not saying Giannis/Jokic are better than SGA this year lol. Giannis was up 2.5x the votes over SGA who was literally FOURTH in the poll. Now the forum is shifting to SGA as MVP. Goes to show how much can change in weeks.

I just don't really inherently care about team record personally for the MVP (and have been consistent about this. Thought Harden was the most deserving candidate in 2019. Thought Burrow was the most deserving candidate this year). I recognize that I am unusual in this regard though

Think of it as a tiebreaker of sorts. Best player on top seed (Bulls with Rose) is actually not the common MVP winner. But if you have two equal players.. and one of them has a WAY better record, that player will usually win.

[Rdude22]

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

Don't matter, since nobody had SGA's supporting cast -largely absent Chet and Caruso- being better than DEN, much less better by margin.

It'd be like saying, since DEN's record is mediocre how much is Jokic's heightened numbers due to him really being "more valuable" this year vs padding his stats bc Murray is having a rough season?

If you look for a reason to discredit a guy, you can always find one.

[Special_Puppy]

How much of the gap between the Thunder and Nuggets is due to SGA being more valuable than Jokic this year vs SGA's supporting cast being better than Jokic's this year?

Don't matter, since nobody had SGA's supporting cast -largely absent Chet and Caruso- being better than DEN, much less better by margin.

It'd be like saying, since DEN's record is mediocre how much is Jokic's heightened numbers due to him really being "more valuable" this year vs padding his stats bc Murray is having a rough season?

If you look for a reason to discredit a guy, you can always find one.

The Thunder’s O/U was like 6 games better than the Nuggets this year. What do you mean that nobody had the Thunder’s supporting cast as being better than the Nuggets?