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Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Trade Deadline 2/6/25 - 2:00 p.m. CDT

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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#281 » by -Jragon- » Fri Jan 17, 2025 1:55 pm

tydett wrote:We've seen it with Dame already to an extent, but the refs and the NBA have already determined teams are only going to be called for a certain number of fouls. Add Jimmy to this team and you are way over the mass for fouls that will be called on him, Giannis and Dame. Without the ability to grift for 10 FTs in games, how much does Jimmy really add considering the opportunity cost? Or does Jimmy now get some of those calls, leaving teams more open to pummel Giannis and Dame?



If that's real, teams already know that so we'd save the eliciting of fouls until the 4th quarter to hold a lead and slow down a comeback. Firing up a fade away when you need a bucket at the end of the game isn't good enough anymore. This gives us another guy who can take it in, pump fake and get and 1 opportunities at opportune times thereby increasing the percentage that we'll get points on said possession (either making the shot, getting 2 shots or getting an "and 1." Shooting a fade away long 2 (Bobby and KM) or even a 3 late in the game only gives you 1 chance to get points (make the shot or miss it). Giannis can get these calls at the right time but it's inconsistent that he'll make the fts.

Plus, he's not a traffic cone on defense like the mentioned 2 guys leaving which also helps to close out wins at the end of a playoff game.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#282 » by BigO » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:05 pm

I'd love to know what Horst was thinking about Dunn during the draft.Was it that he'll never develop a shot? Or that we don't need a player who can switch one thru five?

Dunn just turned 22 and AJ Johnson is 20. It's still to be determined how Johnson will develop, but I'd rather bet on a player who is already good on defense and needs to develop a shot vs. a guy who is super athletic, but needs to develop a shot, a handle, defense and bball iq.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#283 » by -Jragon- » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:10 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:
slos wrote:Looking at the 9 man rotation with Jimmy it looks like this..

Lillard (36)/Rollins (12)
Green (20)/Trent (20)/Rollins (8)
Butler (36)/Jackson (12)
Giannis (20)/Prince (20)/Jackson (8)
Lopez (32)/Giannis (16)

What’s not to like? You have your Big 3 that makes sense, Brook is still a reliable C and I have all Green, Trent, Rollins, AJJ, Prince battling for minutes.


Brook is unplayable against a number of the top teams. No other bigs. Prince playing 20 mpg. That team is significantly worse than the one we play now, and we possibly gave up a future 1st for this mess.


Brook would likely get less minutes vs small ball teams that are taking advantage of their speed against us. But between these 3... KM, Bobby and Brook... they are all slow footed in their own right but I regularly see Brook get huge blocks, force misses, alters inside and make driving guys pass it out. I haven't seen that from KM and Bobby; those are free layups.

Also, it would be fair to say that Brook has been our 3rd best player this year and last year based on games played, minutes played, games started, blocks, points and usefulness as a 2 way player.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#284 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:41 pm

-Jragon- wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
slos wrote:Looking at the 9 man rotation with Jimmy it looks like this..

Lillard (36)/Rollins (12)
Green (20)/Trent (20)/Rollins (8)
Butler (36)/Jackson (12)
Giannis (20)/Prince (20)/Jackson (8)
Lopez (32)/Giannis (16)

What’s not to like? You have your Big 3 that makes sense, Brook is still a reliable C and I have all Green, Trent, Rollins, AJJ, Prince battling for minutes.


Brook is unplayable against a number of the top teams. No other bigs. Prince playing 20 mpg. That team is significantly worse than the one we play now, and we possibly gave up a future 1st for this mess.


Brook would likely get less minutes vs small ball teams that are taking advantage of their speed against us. But between these 3... KM, Bobby and Brook... they are all slow footed in their own right but I regularly see Brook get huge blocks, force misses, alters inside and make driving guys pass it out. I haven't seen that from KM and Bobby; those are free layups.

Also, it would be fair to say that Brook has been our 3rd best player this year and last year based on games played, minutes played, games started, blocks, points and usefulness as a 2 way player.


I agree that Brook works a majority of the time, but we've had numerous games where we desperately needed to go zone, which works better with Bobby. Zone is also important to us to hide Dame.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#285 » by fansinceforever » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:54 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:
fansinceforever wrote:
BroncoBuck wrote:
And Butler is a smaller risk because his contract is up at the end of the season. Middleton is going to opt in to his deal, dealing him now sheds that future burden.


Bolding because you're absolutely right.


Why are you trying to save ownership luxury tax money? That doesn't help us win.


That's not the aim. The goal is stop playing around with one of greatest players to ever play the sport's prime years.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#286 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:04 pm

fansinceforever wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
fansinceforever wrote:
Bolding because you're absolutely right.


Why are you trying to save ownership luxury tax money? That doesn't help us win.


That's not the aim. The goal is stop playing around with one of greatest players to ever play the sport's prime years.


Gutting the team around him makes us better?Jettisonning the player who has amazing chemistry with him makes us better?

The Bucks scored on all 7 Giannis/Middleton 2 man actions versus the Magic. We're better without that? Entering last game, the Bucks had a 144 offensive rating with Giannis and Khris on and Dame off. I'm not mentioning that to slight Dame, but to point out what an awesome duo Giannis and Mids have become. Seems like Doc has supercharged that duo.

Moving Khris, Bobby and picks makes it almost impossible to field a viable rotation now and especially in the very near future.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#287 » by -Jragon- » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:08 pm

ShootingtheJ wrote:
-Jragon- wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
Brook is unplayable against a number of the top teams. No other bigs. Prince playing 20 mpg. That team is significantly worse than the one we play now, and we possibly gave up a future 1st for this mess.


Brook would likely get less minutes vs small ball teams that are taking advantage of their speed against us. But between these 3... KM, Bobby and Brook... they are all slow footed in their own right but I regularly see Brook get huge blocks, force misses, alters inside and make driving guys pass it out. I haven't seen that from KM and Bobby; those are free layups.

Also, it would be fair to say that Brook has been our 3rd best player this year and last year based on games played, minutes played, games started, blocks, points and usefulness as a 2 way player.


I agree that Brook works a majority of the time, but we've had numerous games where we desperately needed to go zone, which works better with Bobby. Zone is also important to us to hide Dame.


For as quick as Dame is and how well he stays in front of guys, it is surprising how he ends up like 3 steps behind guys trying to go above screens. I wonder if he got injured like that before and is extra cautious.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#288 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:13 pm

Trading Khris, Bobby, and Pat is "gutting" the team around Giannis?
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#289 » by -Jragon- » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:17 pm

On a Google search... 3 years ago it was reported that Dame had left knee soreness recurring based on "continual screen clashes"... that's what I noticed.. he makes sure to go way above it and loses steps on his guy but being fair, bigs are allowed to move/slide late on their screens without it getting called often. Probably no real answer for that with his size, someone needs to show and allow him to recover from it
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#290 » by -Jragon- » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:20 pm

at least with Dame you need a screen to get around him.. with KM and Bobby it's a green light ole' and you're in there
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#291 » by Bernman » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:27 pm

The trade board deals have us being fleeced. It's typical for them, as they're influenced by a media driven by dollars. The $ is perceived to be in running Giannis (& Dame) out of Milwaukee to fix their ratings. It's a shame a sub-sect of our fan base is abiding.

At this pt, I'll be relieved when we bow out of talks. Don't trade Pat either, if they think we should concede a 1st. As I've said, he can still help us in the end. Keep it simple & deal Bobby, maybe the 1st to satisfy our athletic big & 3&d bigger wing need.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#292 » by Daver » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:28 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Trading Khris, Bobby, and Pat is "gutting" the team around Giannis?



Funny gutting 3 bench guys for a stud .Lol
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#293 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:29 pm

Jimmy allegedly "reported back" with the team yesterday, and so far isn't on the injury report for tonight's game against Denver. Meanwhile:

It was a futile effort. Starving this situation of oxygen was going to work for only so long, and the issues that caused the relationship to disintegrate remain. Butler still wants to be traded. The Heat haven't found a trade they like for him.

Teammates, coaches and staffers have already grown weary, sources said.

While Heat sources say they expect Butler to return Friday against the Nuggets and are fully prepared for him to play, there remains a palpable dread at what he might do and the environment the ongoing chaos might create. "I don't know how he can come back to this locker room," one source close to the team said. Said another, "We don't want him back."

If history -- like, say, in Minnesota in 2018 -- serves as precedent, the discomfort could deepen, quickly.

"Jimmy hasn't even really started," said one source close to Butler.


Buckle up.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#294 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:33 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Trading Khris, Bobby, and Pat is "gutting" the team around Giannis?


No, but trading them and both our picks to let Jimmy walk sure as hell is.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#295 » by drdrG » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:34 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Jimmy allegedly "reported back" with the team yesterday, and so far isn't on the injury report for tonight's game against Denver. Meanwhile:

It was a futile effort. Starving this situation of oxygen was going to work for only so long, and the issues that caused the relationship to disintegrate remain. Butler still wants to be traded. The Heat haven't found a trade they like for him.

Teammates, coaches and staffers have already grown weary, sources said.

While Heat sources say they expect Butler to return Friday against the Nuggets and are fully prepared for him to play, there remains a palpable dread at what he might do and the environment the ongoing chaos might create. "I don't know how he can come back to this locker room," one source close to the team said. Said another, "We don't want him back."

If history -- like, say, in Minnesota in 2018 -- serves as precedent, the discomfort could deepen, quickly.

"Jimmy hasn't even really started," said one source close to Butler.


Buckle up.


The popcorn is ready
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#296 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:38 pm

-Jragon- wrote:at least with Dame you need a screen to get around him.. with KM and Bobby it's a green light ole' and you're in there


You can keep lying about Khris, but he continues to carry an average defensive profile, while the Bucks defense continues to tank with Dame on the floor.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#297 » by tydett » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:38 pm

When the report comes out that Jimmy takes the Heat G-League squad (they're flying in from Sioux Falls for this example, reality be damned) and beats the Heat starters, I'll definitely believe it this time.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#298 » by soxperry » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:39 pm

Quite honestly, I'm not sure Butler has much more trade value than Khris. Whatever overall impact differences exist between Khris and Jimmy are nearly negated by the fact that Khris is the most stand up guy you could hope to have in a locker room and will be seemingly much more predictable in contract discussions.

You might say, "Then why are the Bucks fans wanting to swap him for Butler?" It comes down to fit. If our entire rotation was defense, we could afford to play a guy like Khris. I still have major concerns about personality fit between Jimmy and Giannis, but it's the biggest needle mover move we could make.

So with that, I will now go attempt some three way trades that gets Khris to a team like Orlando while giving assets to Miami and Jimmy to Milwaukee.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#299 » by drdrG » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:49 pm

If we were trading for playoff Jimmy from three years ago I'd consider it.

Can anyone think of a situation where such a disgruntled player forces his way out and it works? Recently, Durant/Kyrie/Harden/Beal come to mind. They were either much younger (Beal/Kyrie) or better (Durant/Harden). Kyrie has worked out the best but his contract situation and age were much more favorable than Butler's. Going back to Kawhi to the Raptors, the one title worked out but he was maybe the best player in the league that season and hasn't been healthy and they've been one of the worst teams in the league since he walked.

The best of Jimmy is maybe worth it but I think the average scenario is a net negative and the worst case scenario is a disaster. Those aren't good odds. I think the shakeup we need against the top of the East can involve a trade around Bobby/Pat for a more switchable wing/big and internal improvement.

Our best bet is more AJ and Rollins, Trent continuing his high level of play, Middleton ramping up to 25-30 minutes and more focus from Giannis/Dame.

Giannis is maybe the best he's ever been, Middleton and Dame were both excellent in the playoffs last year, health allowing. The most important thing is having those three clicking and healthy for two months starting in April.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas 

Post#300 » by soxperry » Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:54 pm

So depending on how the Heat feel about being able to flip VanFleet, something like

Butler to Milwaukee
VanFleet to Miami
Khris and Bobby to Houston
Pat to Detroit

fill in the gaps with picks and small salaries, but that trade works

It's not really necessary to include the pat trade in a 4 way, can be done prior, but without making it a 4 way, fanspo won't approve it.

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