Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[winforlose]

Just spitballing...

Rob Dillingham and 2025 DET 1st to Detroit for Jalen Duren.

Duren has tremendous physical ability and potential, but many of the DET posters have given up on the guy already because of his deficiencies in so many areas. If they are right, either asset might get him - it wouldn’t take both.

I'll be honest, I wasn't really sure his value. But there are people here who have basically already deemed Dillingham a bust too...

Dilly is an undersized rookie. Give him a year or two, I predict he will significantly improve.

[minimus]

Just spitballing...

Rob Dillingham and 2025 DET 1st to Detroit for Jalen Duren.

Why would we need to throw in a first? Duren has gotten worse in his third year and he's only playing 25mpg on that team.

Duren has tremendous physical ability and potential, but many of the DET posters have given up on the guy already because of his deficiencies in so many areas. If they are right, either asset might get him - it wouldn’t take both.

I did not know that Duren value is low... That means TC should absolutely try to get him! If I understand correctly the only way is to trade either Dilly or NAW, trading either hurts me deep inside, but purely from this roster construction it makes a lot of sense to balance our frontcourt and backcourt by replacing one guard with one big. Another possibility is a fancy three team deal, but I dont see any realistic scenario because of CBA complications. However, the framework might look like this:

MIN IN: Brogdon, Duren, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, WAS 2026 SRP
MIN OUT: Randle, NAW, DET 2025 FRP

DET IN: NAW
DET OUT: Duren

WAS IN: Randle, DET 2025 FRP
WAS OUT: Brogdon, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, PHO 2025 SRP

Gobert/Duren/Garza
Reid/McDaniels/Minott + Miller
McDaniels/Minott + TJ
Edwards/DDV Brodgon + Clark
DDV/Brodgon/Conley + Dilly

[winforlose]

Just spitballing...

Rob Dillingham and 2025 DET 1st to Detroit for Jalen Duren.

Why would we need to throw in a first? Duren has gotten worse in his third year and he's only playing 25mpg on that team.

Duren has tremendous physical ability and potential, but many of the DET posters have given up on the guy already because of his deficiencies in so many areas. If they are right, either asset might get him - it wouldn’t take both.

I did not know that Duren value is low... That means TC should absolutely try to get him! If I understand correctly the only way is to trade either Dilly or NAW, trading either hurts me deep inside, but purely from this roster construction it makes a lot of sense to balance our frontcourt and backcourt by replacing one guard with one big. Another possibility is a fancy three team deal, but I dont see any realistic scenario because of CBA complications. However, the framework might look like this:

MIN IN: Brogdon, Duren, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, WAS 2026 SRP
MIN OUT: Randle, NAW, DET 2025 FRP

DET IN: NAW
DET OUT: Duren

WAS IN: Randle, DET 2025 FRP
WAS OUT: Brogdon, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, PHO 2025 SRP

Gobert/Duren/Garza
Reid/McDaniels/Minott + Miller
McDaniels/Minott + TJ
Edwards/DDV Brodgon + Clark
DDV/Brodgon/Conley + Dilly

NAW makes 4.3, Duren makes 4.5. Dilly, Randle, Mike, Jaden, and Ant are the only trade eligible players making enough money to bring back Duren. Rudy will be trade eligible next season, but is not this season.

Any C we bring in has 2 issues.

1. Rudy will restrict their minutes. Duren is used to 25+ and starting in Detroit. If Duren and Rudy split minutes that is a major drop off for Rudy. If Duren drops to 15 and Rudy to 33 that now makes Duren unhappy as his time is cut in half and his role changes from primary C to bench guy.

2. Duren has attempted 0 3s this season. He is the very definition of a non shooter. This means he cannot play with Rudy. Imagine twin towers with no spacing. Any backup C we acquire must be good enough at shooting to at least force a contest from range.

So Duren is a poor fit with Rudy and wouldn’t get enough minutes behind Rudy. Best case Duren or Rudy want out next year. Worse case the issues between them force us to move both next year.

P.S question for the board. Knowing now what you didn’t in the preseason, would you have wanted ownership to refuse the sign and trade of Kyle, paid him what GSW did using bird rights, and traded him for salary back? We would have one less 2nd round pick, Kyle might have been disgruntled, but we would have $8,780,488 of outgoing salary to use right now!

[minimus]

Why would we need to throw in a first? Duren has gotten worse in his third year and he's only playing 25mpg on that team.

Duren has tremendous physical ability and potential, but many of the DET posters have given up on the guy already because of his deficiencies in so many areas. If they are right, either asset might get him - it wouldn’t take both.

I did not know that Duren value is low... That means TC should absolutely try to get him! If I understand correctly the only way is to trade either Dilly or NAW, trading either hurts me deep inside, but purely from this roster construction it makes a lot of sense to balance our frontcourt and backcourt by replacing one guard with one big. Another possibility is a fancy three team deal, but I dont see any realistic scenario because of CBA complications. However, the framework might look like this:

NAW makes 4.3, Duren makes 4.5. Dilly, Randle, Mike, Jaden, and Ant are the only trade eligible players making enough money to bring back Duren. Rudy will be trade eligible next season, but is not this season.

Any C we bring in has 2 issues.

1. Rudy will restrict their minutes. Duren is used to 25+ and starting in Detroit. If Duren and Rudy split minutes that is a major drop off for Rudy. If Duren drops to 15 and Rudy to 33 that now makes Duren unhappy as his time is cut in half and his role changes from primary C to bench guy.

2. Duren has attempted 0 3s this season. He is the very definition of a non shooter. This means he cannot play with Rudy. Imagine twin towers with no spacing. Any backup C we acquire must be good enough at shooting to at least force a contest from range.

So Duren is a poor fit with Rudy and wouldn’t get enough minutes behind Rudy. Best case Duren or Rudy want out next year. Worse case the issues between them force us to move both next year.

P.S question for the board. Knowing now what you didn’t in the preseason, would you have wanted ownership to refuse the sign and trade of Kyle, paid him what GSW did using bird rights, and traded him for salary back? We would have one less 2nd round pick, Kyle might have been disgruntled, but we would have $8,780,488 of outgoing salary to use right now!

I think that Rudy minutes in best case scenario will naturally decline in next three years, and it is likely that he will miss games with load management etc, so I dont think it is a big problem. As for shooting I think Duren has rim runner, finishing ability to play as non shooting big next to Reid. So put it this way: I want TC to build core around Duren-Reid frouncout, add here Edwards-McDaniels-DDV and they will have enough shooting, but also can run in transition.

P.S. I've changed my mind: trade Dilly (as Klomp initially suggested), and keep NAW on team friendly contract

MIN IN: Brogdon, Duren, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, WAS 2026 SRP
MIN OUT: Randle, Dilly, DET 2025 FRP

DET IN: Dilly
DET OUT: Duren

WAS IN: Randle, DET 2025 FRP
WAS OUT: Brogdon, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, PHO 2025 SRP

Gobert/Duren/Garza
Reid/Minott/McDaniels + Miller
McDaniels/NAW/Minott + TJ
Edwards/DDV Brodgon + Clark
DDV/Brodgon/Conley

I like this oversized McDaniels-NAW-Edwards-DDV-Brogdon backcourt a lot!

[winforlose]

I did not know that Duren value is low... That means TC should absolutely try to get him! If I understand correctly the only way is to trade either Dilly or NAW, trading either hurts me deep inside, but purely from this roster construction it makes a lot of sense to balance our frontcourt and backcourt by replacing one guard with one big. Another possibility is a fancy three team deal, but I dont see any realistic scenario because of CBA complications. However, the framework might look like this:

NAW makes 4.3, Duren makes 4.5. Dilly, Randle, Mike, Jaden, and Ant are the only trade eligible players making enough money to bring back Duren. Rudy will be trade eligible next season, but is not this season.

Any C we bring in has 2 issues.

1. Rudy will restrict their minutes. Duren is used to 25+ and starting in Detroit. If Duren and Rudy split minutes that is a major drop off for Rudy. If Duren drops to 15 and Rudy to 33 that now makes Duren unhappy as his time is cut in half and his role changes from primary C to bench guy.

2. Duren has attempted 0 3s this season. He is the very definition of a non shooter. This means he cannot play with Rudy. Imagine twin towers with no spacing. Any backup C we acquire must be good enough at shooting to at least force a contest from range.

So Duren is a poor fit with Rudy and wouldn’t get enough minutes behind Rudy. Best case Duren or Rudy want out next year. Worse case the issues between them force us to move both next year.

P.S question for the board. Knowing now what you didn’t in the preseason, would you have wanted ownership to refuse the sign and trade of Kyle, paid him what GSW did using bird rights, and traded him for salary back? We would have one less 2nd round pick, Kyle might have been disgruntled, but we would have $8,780,488 of outgoing salary to use right now!

I think that Rudy minutes in best case scenario will naturally decline in next three years, and it is likely that he will miss games with load management etc, so I dont think it is a big problem. As for shooting I think Duren has rim runner, finishing ability to play as non shooting big next to Reid. So put it this way: I want TC to build core around Duren-Reid frouncout, add here Edwards-McDaniels-DDV and they will have enough shooting, but also can run in transition.

P.S. I've changed my mind: trade Dilly (as Klomp initially suggested), and keep NAW on team friendly contract

MIN IN: Brogdon, Duren, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, WAS 2026 SRP
MIN OUT: Randle, Dilly, DET 2025 FRP

DET IN: Dilly
DET OUT: Duren

WAS IN: Randle, DET 2025 FRP
WAS OUT: Brogdon, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, PHO 2025 SRP

Gobert/Duren/Garza
Reid/Minott/McDaniels + Miller
McDaniels/NAW/Minott + TJ
Edwards/DDV Brodgon + Clark
DDV/Brodgon/Conley

I like this oversized McDaniels-NAW-Edwards-DDV-Brogdon backcourt a lot!

Are you looking for MB to resign or to expire? I ask because his injury history is certainly bad enough that I don’t see him in our long term plan. Giving up the First and Dilly is the equivalent of moving 2 unprotected firsts and a top 1 protected swap. It is a massive investment in Duren who only has 1 cheap year left. I expect Rudy to be traded next year, and once that happens I expect us to acquire a C of the future (henceforth referred to COF.) The problem with paying Duren as your COF is that you’re already paying Ant, Jaden, Naz, NAW, and DDV, north of 10 at that point. Even with cap raises you need some cheap deals. DDV will also be in line for more money a couple years later. I get why you like a COF, but I have my doubts about Duren.

P.S, Ant will want a 5 out rotation. If you have to please Ant you want a Myles Turner or JV type C, preferably young and cheap. Think Chet/Sarr but not so high a draft pick or expensive to trade for.

[minimus]

NAW makes 4.3, Duren makes 4.5. Dilly, Randle, Mike, Jaden, and Ant are the only trade eligible players making enough money to bring back Duren. Rudy will be trade eligible next season, but is not this season.

Any C we bring in has 2 issues.

1. Rudy will restrict their minutes. Duren is used to 25+ and starting in Detroit. If Duren and Rudy split minutes that is a major drop off for Rudy. If Duren drops to 15 and Rudy to 33 that now makes Duren unhappy as his time is cut in half and his role changes from primary C to bench guy.

2. Duren has attempted 0 3s this season. He is the very definition of a non shooter. This means he cannot play with Rudy. Imagine twin towers with no spacing. Any backup C we acquire must be good enough at shooting to at least force a contest from range.

So Duren is a poor fit with Rudy and wouldn’t get enough minutes behind Rudy. Best case Duren or Rudy want out next year. Worse case the issues between them force us to move both next year.

P.S question for the board. Knowing now what you didn’t in the preseason, would you have wanted ownership to refuse the sign and trade of Kyle, paid him what GSW did using bird rights, and traded him for salary back? We would have one less 2nd round pick, Kyle might have been disgruntled, but we would have $8,780,488 of outgoing salary to use right now!

I think that Rudy minutes in best case scenario will naturally decline in next three years, and it is likely that he will miss games with load management etc, so I dont think it is a big problem. As for shooting I think Duren has rim runner, finishing ability to play as non shooting big next to Reid. So put it this way: I want TC to build core around Duren-Reid frouncout, add here Edwards-McDaniels-DDV and they will have enough shooting, but also can run in transition.

P.S. I've changed my mind: trade Dilly (as Klomp initially suggested), and keep NAW on team friendly contract

MIN IN: Brogdon, Duren, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, WAS 2026 SRP
MIN OUT: Randle, Dilly, DET 2025 FRP

DET IN: Dilly
DET OUT: Duren

WAS IN: Randle, DET 2025 FRP
WAS OUT: Brogdon, Saddiq Bey, WAS 2025 SRP, PHO 2025 SRP

Gobert/Duren/Garza
Reid/Minott/McDaniels + Miller
McDaniels/NAW/Minott + TJ
Edwards/DDV Brodgon + Clark
DDV/Brodgon/Conley

I like this oversized McDaniels-NAW-Edwards-DDV-Brogdon backcourt a lot!

Are you looking for MB to resign or to expire? I ask because his injury history is certainly bad enough that I don’t see him in our long term plan. Giving up the First and Dilly is the equivalent of moving 2 unprotected firsts and a top 1 protected swap. It is a massive investment in Duren who only has 1 cheap year left. I expect Rudy to be traded next year, and once that happens I expect us to acquire a C of the future (henceforth referred to COF.) The problem with paying Duren as your COF is that you’re already paying Ant, Jaden, Naz, NAW, and DDV, north of 10 at that point. Even with cap raises you need some cheap deals. DDV will also be in line for more money a couple years later. I get why you like a COF, but I have my doubts about Duren.

P.S, Ant will want a 5 out rotation. If you have to please Ant you want a Myles Turner or JV type C, preferably young and cheap. Think Chet/Sarr but not so high a draft pick or expensive to trade for.

I understand your concerns about Duren. First of all, schema wise I dont believe in five-out as magic pill for our offense. For example CLE have one of the most efficient offenses this season, they dont have stretch five big, heck they even dont have stretch four. But still they run a modern offense. Another example is OKC with Hartenstein who is non shooter, not uberathletic, but a high IQ player who can pass. Second, I am not familiar with Duren's game. Does his game have red flags? I understand that he is not a shooter, but for rim runner role I would love to hear whether he can finish with either hands, or can pass, has feel for rebounds, understands angles both in defense and offense, has motor, does not shy from physical contact etc.

I dont believe in MB long-term. I see him as big expiring contract. I basically looked for 20-23 mil expiring contract. Ideal scenario would be Randle and DET 2025 FRP for Ball and Jalen Smith, then Dilly for Duren. Next year, re-sign Reid, NAW. A pipe dream will be Ball singing for vetmin just like Tyus Jones did in PHO. So 2025-26 MIN rotation would look like:

Gobert/Duren/Smith
Reid/Smith/Miller
McDaniels/NAW/Minott + TJ
Edwards/DDV/Clark
DDV/Ball/Conley

[Norseman79]

Best PG attainable for Randle? (Including those that would be packaged due to salary match).

[BlacJacMac]

I understand your concerns about Duren. First of all, schema wise I dont believe in five-out as magic pill for our offense. For example CLE have one of the most efficient offenses this season, they dont have stretch five big, heck they even dont have stretch four.

Mobley takes almost 1/4 of his shots from 3 and is hitting 41% of them.

[cmoss84]

Best PG attainable for Randle? (Including those that would be packaged due to salary match).

If we are just trading Randle, I'd say Ball and Smith.
D. Murray?
Sexton?

If we are making a blockbuster, a few names out there (I did one with Maxey).

[minimus]

I understand your concerns about Duren. First of all, schema wise I dont believe in five-out as magic pill for our offense. For example CLE have one of the most efficient offenses this season, they dont have stretch five big, heck they even dont have stretch four.

Mobley takes almost 1/4 of his shots from 3 and is hitting 41% of them.

Is he stretch four? Randle take 1/3 shots from 3 and is hitting 35% of them

[BlacJacMac]

I understand your concerns about Duren. First of all, schema wise I dont believe in five-out as magic pill for our offense. For example CLE have one of the most efficient offenses this season, they dont have stretch five big, heck they even dont have stretch four.

Mobley takes almost 1/4 of his shots from 3 and is hitting 41% of them.

Is he stretch four? Randle take 1/3 shots from 3 and is hitting 35% of them

I would say Mobley absolutely is a stretch 4.

A stretch 4 isn't a guy who only shoots from outside, but one that is very capable of doing it and needs to always be guarded out to there.

[minimus]

Mobley takes almost 1/4 of his shots from 3 and is hitting 41% of them.

Is he stretch four? Randle take 1/3 shots from 3 and is hitting 35% of them

I would say Mobley absolutely is a stretch 4.

A stretch 4 isn't a guy who only shoots from outside, but one that is very capable of doing it and needs to always be guarded out to there.

To me Mobley is not a stretch four. Stretch four was Kevin Love in his CLE seasons. Mobley is taking 2.8 threes per game (1.5 wide open, 1.1 open)

I think it makes more sense that Atkinson uses his more as hub in offense, where Evan can pass

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Guest84]

Best PG attainable for Randle? (Including those that would be packaged due to salary match).

If we are just trading Randle, I'd say Ball and Smith.
D. Murray?
Sexton?

If we are making a blockbuster, a few names out there (I did one with Maxey).

Outside of Ant, there's nobody on this roster in my mind that Phi would accept for Maxey. Especially w/ the decline/availability of Joel.

Sadly, we might be in for another year of this if Randle opts in. Big decisions looming...

[moss_is_1]

Read on Twitter

Drive his price up. I love NAW and think he's a great piece for a contending team off the bench, or he could be used as a 5th starter as a POA defender, unfortunately we have 2 better SG's, Jaden, Conley and Dillingham at his positions.

Try and get a 1st for Naw and give Rob his minutes to develop him. This season is probably a punt anyway, we should reduce Conley, Rudy, Randle minutes and let Rob, Minott, Tsj and even Miller get some run to develop them. If we make the playoffs we're most likely a 1st round exit anyway.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

I am not surprised there is a market for NAW. I love NAWs game, but TC better to be prepared for next offseason.

[Guest84]

Are we opposed to including Rob in any packages that might increase a return? I know management prob wouldn't include him...

[BlacJacMac]

Are we opposed to including Rob in any packages that might increase a return? I know management prob wouldn't include him...

Not opposed, but I'm not taking back .50 on the dollar. Its too soon to lose value on him.

[cmoss84]

Best PG attainable for Randle? (Including those that would be packaged due to salary match).

If we are just trading Randle, I'd say Ball and Smith.
D. Murray?
Sexton?

If we are making a blockbuster, a few names out there (I did one with Maxey).

Outside of Ant, there's nobody on this roster in my mind that Phi would accept for Maxey. Especially w/ the decline/availability of Joel.

Sadly, we might be in for another year of this if Randle opts in. Big decisions looming...

My trade had them acquiring Zion, Jaden, and RD...
can't you imagine Embiid, Zion, and Jaden on the floor at the same time??? Me neither.

[BlacJacMac]

If we are just trading Randle, I'd say Ball and Smith.
D. Murray?
Sexton?

If we are making a blockbuster, a few names out there (I did one with Maxey).

Outside of Ant, there's nobody on this roster in my mind that Phi would accept for Maxey. Especially w/ the decline/availability of Joel.

Sadly, we might be in for another year of this if Randle opts in. Big decisions looming...

My trade had them acquiring Zion, Jaden, and RD...
can't you imagine Embiid, Zion, and Jaden on the floor at the same time??? Me neither.

The odds of Embiid and Zion both being available at the same time has to be astronomical...